What a bizarre system. Tax should be taken from your payslip. There should be no need for the individual to figure out anything, unless they are self employed.
It is taken from the payslip. But then they have us verify what they already know and if you make a mistake you’re punished for it! It’s bullshit.
I want so bad for the US to do it the way every sane country does it; they just send me a thing so I can make sure they’re accurate and only need to take action if they fuck up.
You can thank Intuit, the company behind TurboTax, for making taxes as difficult as possible. They spend a lot of money lobbying to make filing taxes more difficult.
But what about the tax preparation industry? Won’t anybody think of the shareholders? For shame.
Yuuuuuuup.
That’s how it is here in France. It is calculated according to the previous year income, so if you get a raise you’ll have to pay a little bit more at the end the following fiscal year, but that’s often very little. Last time I got a 2500€ yearly raise, I had to align something like… 100€ 😆.
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Taxes are taken from the payslip, but there’s a bunch of other things that can affect your income taxes. For example, you need to pay income tax on bank interest and capital gains tax on investments you sold during the year. There’s also a bunch of deductions that reduce your taxable income - for example, if you have a mortgage, you can deduct some of the interest.
Of course, the IRS should already know most of this stuff, so I’m not sure why they make us tell them again.
Taxes are not the problem. Billionaires grabbing the money on the other side are the problem.
Know the difference
Taxes are also the problem in countries like the US and China wherein income tax only exists to remove currency from circulation. There’s plenty of other ways to do that in a digital world.
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Yeah having to do your taxes yourself is fucking archaic and stupid. They know how much you owe them. Either deduct that when people are paid (falls on the employer) or just tell people what they owe.
Well, again, the taxes are not the problem, but the bad design of the deduction process. The war on taxes, especially in the US but also in Europe, is a strategy from the right and neoliberals to cut down on social welfare and essentially redistribute money to the rich.
Taxes are good and important, but it’s difficult to figure out what to tax and by how much, and how to use the money well.
So… You mean they are a problem
No, you can’t read a complex sentence
There’s certainly taxes, I paid income tax and they revised the rates at least once while I was living there. No sales tax that I noticed but that’s not the only tax.
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Yeah, but that’s not the argument you were making. You said there were no taxes.
Income tax is a tax even if you don’t pay it at certain levels. In the US if you make under something like 20k a year that is also effectively tax exempt due to low income. Doesn’t mean there are no taxes.
The rich would just use crypto
The people most capable of carrying the tax burden are the people most likely to cheat their way out of paying taxes.
Lol yeah because taxes are the problem. It’s supposed to be more tax for rich less for poor. You have literally done a 360 reverse Robin Hood no scope self own with the taxes. Because they are the problem. They would change everything if a normal person would tax the demonic corporate entities and stop taxing and punishing your own veteran old people but nah, it’s only a problem when it affects billionaires
Just look at high tax countries, like Sweden, Finland, Norway. They are pretty functional, although not perfect, with pretty well-working social systems. Look at countries that are all about avoiding taxes like… the US. Look at the UK, and what Thatcherism did to it. Social services are falling apart, if still existing at all.
Whoever says taxes are a problem, implicitly says schools, streets, firefighters, … should be privately owned. And guess who would be the private owners and what they are going to do with prices :)
It’s very hard to find the motivation to pay taxes to a federal government that doesn’t represent me. “No taxation without representation” drove the revolution against our original king after all…
Now that it’s clear the Federal government is just using tax money to give to billionaires, it’s going to be extra painful this year. It genuinely just feels like a protection racket now. Pay money to the ruling class, or their enforcers will haul you away to prison.
Out of curiosity, were you of voting age in 2016?
Yes, and I voted for Hillary, for all the good it did.
Yes, and Bernie in the primary.
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In the Norwegian tax system, if you pay too much taxes trough the year from your paycheck, you get interest on the amount you paid to much. Likewise, if you pay too little taxes throughout the year, you will have to pay interest on the amount you have yet to pay. So the system is supposed to be balanced in that regard. The interest is on the level of a savings account (3.51% annual atm), so you could make an argument that saving that in a index stock or good bond is a better ROI though, so still recommended to try to not pay too much during the year.
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Employers deduct a part of your salary as taxes on every paycheck (usually monthly). But how much they deduct is based on your tax profile which is created by the tax authorities. It’s typically based on expected yearly income. However, you are allowed (and encouraged) to update this number yourself.
So say you swap to a lower paid job, or work less overtime than you planned, you can change your expected annual income to reflect this in taxes paid. If you don’t however, then you effectively pay too much taxes as your employer is basing the taxes on too high numbers.
Another reason is that you may have tax deductions that only gets computed into the total when you fill out your full tax report. So if you didn’t bake those into your tax profile at the start of the year, you might get returns on your taxes (with interest).
You can also downplay how much taxes to pay through salaries, in which case you will owe back taxes when the full tax report is made.
Interesting. I presume for the average adult this wouldn’t really be an issue, unless they are switching job or working some kind of job with variable income. Unrelated question- do you like living in Norway?
Yeah, it’s not an issue for most people. I think the system works well. And the annual taxes are very simple to fill out. The report comes filled out for you, and you just need to make adjustments or approve it as is. Never had any issues with tracking or reporting my taxes.
I really enjoy living in Norway. I feel the culture and the way of life suits my preferences very well. There are of course always things one hope improves over time and things that could be better. But overall, life is good here I feel.
I assume they have the same issues with waiting in the end of the year to round up stocks and other interest/dividend income.
Taxes can get extremely complicated depending on your situation. In my relatively simple case as a contractor, I’m on the hook for calculating and paying taxes quarterly (since my employer(s) don’t do it for me). The exact amount I’m meant to pay is
yearly income/4, which means I need to predict how much I’ll earn throughout the entire year, which is impossible without a crystal ball.So I just pay what I think I’ll earn, and at the end of the year calculate the difference from what I actually earned, and either send or receive a payment from the government. From the IRS point of view, whatever interest they end up paying me is probably less than the cost of government having a cashflow issue throughout the year without those quarterly payments.
I look at it like a non-voluntary piggy bank. I set the amount I’m going to withhold from every pay check, and anything over, gets given back. Sure it’s interest free but if you look at an actual bank, interest rates on that money sitting in a savings account is pennies. And if you’re someone who is bad at not spending your money, having it held for you with no real way to withdraw it is helpful when budgeting.
Besides, it’s easy to over pay, it’s pretty difficult for most people to net zero on tax payments without ending up owing money. And the amount you owe, could be something you hadn’t budgeted for. I owe $450 this year. I don’t really know where I’m getting that money. Most people will be less happy owing money than over paying and getting a refund.
I actually wish I could do this in Australia, for the reasons you mention (from a self-interested point of view).
I’m glad tax witholding is mandatory here though, because the government has to pay for stuff throughout the year, on services which we all benefit.
And it reduces the number of people who have illogical emotional reactions on having to pay taxes. (Much less resistance when you get a touch back, than have to pay more)
We do also pay taxes for stupid shit, like our tribute of $300 B AUD to the US for submarines. But alas, such is government spending. We can’t all agree what’s actually good.
Should have stuck with France.
In the country where you don’t know what you ll end up paying unless you go to the counter, because the taxes are not included, its only “logical” to not have your taxes deducted from your payslio because reasons
I ll never understand this shit, smh
I’m not sure what country you’re talking about, but I assume the U.S. We do have taxes deducted from payroll, and you fill out a form telling the employer (and the IRS) what amount to deduct based on estimated income, family size, and a couple of other factors. Then in April we have to file our official tax form declaring actual income, and if we owe less than what was deducted from our paychecks we receive that back as a refund, but if we underestimated we have to pay whatever taxes are remaining. The reason that filing taxes is so complicated is the sheer volume of deductions, exemptions, credits, etc that have been piled on top of the tax code over the years (plus lobbying by the tax prep industry). It’s a stupid system, but it’s not as stupid as some people seem to be assuming in this thread. If you set up your withholding right, you shouldn’t ever owe taxes when it’s time to file.
Now, if you’re self-employed or a contractor (and considered self-employed) the whole thing kind of falls apart and it’s a lot easier to wind up owning a bunch of money. Like I said, it is a stupid system, just not quite as crazy as some people seem to be assuming.
To add one thing to the only reasonable comment I’ve seen in this thread: if you’re poorer, your taxes are probably easy and straightforward. If you have money and your taxes are more complicated, you can probably afford to have someone do them for you.
I can’t agree with this enough, though I think part of the problem is that it isn’t what’s easy to complete your W-4 accurately, there is an entire worksheet to use if you file jointly that is sorta difficult to do well, especially if both people make fairly different amounts. If you just choose the basic withholding it’s very likely the bigger breadwinner isn’t withholding enough and you’ll end up owing about what the comic shows (at least that is my experience, as well as some friends).
I think the real problem in the US is that everyone is left to do their tax paperwork from scratch every year when the IRS could send you a personalized return prefilled that you then claim the deductions and credits you’re due and account for any descrpenices (which sure, is what your W-2 is supposed to be, but it isn’t really that, you still need to use the worksheets on the 1040 or pay someone/some software to do it for you; a prefilled 1040 would be a way better system).
It also doesn’t account for the huge variations in state taxes. Many states have income taxes, some are reciprocal with nearby states and others aren’t, the deductions and credits and even what is taxable is all different. The whole thing is a mess. Then lord help you if you live in a state with local income taxes or one where your local taxes are different than school taxes(like PA) and the whole thing is a half day exercise in frustration to complete and you’re still left wondering if you did it right.
Yeah, I’m not by any means trying to say that the American system is the best way of doing things. It’s definitely not, and to be honest I’ve never quite managed to get my state withholding right - I almost always owe a little bit (usually a hundred dollars or so). But some folks seem to have gotten some strange ideas about how bad it actually is.
Yeah, we almost always owe a tiny bit (usually less than $100, often less than $50) to the state. I don’t really understand how I can get so close but still miss it every year but overpay federal taxes when it’s all based on the same W-4 I give to my employer.
School taxes? What is that?
The school districts get part of our local income taxes which is separate from what municipalities get (technically municipalities run wholly on property taxes, and the schools get a portion of that plus a portion of local income taxes that are split with the county. It’s convoluted IMO). It depends on where you are employed and where you live, since your employer remits taxes to the municipality you work in and that municipality remits taxes to school districts based on where each employee lives (at least that’s how I understand it, it all is mostly transparent other than needing to include various location codes on forms for your employer and for your local tax return).
If you set up your withholding right, you shouldn’t ever owe taxes when it’s time to file.
Thing is, here in Germany you don’t even get to make the mistake of setting up your withholdings wrong if you’re a regular employee. I don’t think it’s even possible to end up owing the state money if you’re not self-employed or have considerable capital investments (which is rare for regular employees, which is probably its own issue …).
Yeah I’ve heard of so many content creators that stream for a living that gets absolutely screwed over at the end of the year because since they own their own business they have all of the business tax and they hadn’t been putting in throughout the year so for them tax time always hurts
I ended up owning $38
fucking win! I’m not going look at the total paid in thought, it’s much much more than $1.2k
Haha, my last tax filing I owed another $40k.
My own fault for not paying taxes during the year though.
This government doesn’t deserve our tax dollars. Theyve made it clear they’re funneling as much as possible straight to the billionaires.
Just don’t pay.
And what would that do?
They already run a deficit, so they’ll run a bigger deficit. Printing money is a flat tax on everyone. So not paying taxes is just applying a flat tax on others.
Plus you get to go to jail and cost me money to support you there.
I’m all for effective protest, but this doesn’t seem to be it.
(Stupid question) Why would they print more money instead of just having a higher deficit until congress increases taxes on the poor?
It’s the same thing really. When they run a deficit, they’re paying money to somebody, so that money enters circulation causing inflation.
Taxation is theft
Good luck getting that tariff money to pay for local roads and schools.
I’m sure that Elon Musk will agree with you.
Before the feds went fascist, this was hyperbole. Now it’s simply the truth, for federal, anyway. At least my state taxes are still being used for public benefit.
If Americans want a proper country, yall better get used to paying 40% taxes like in Europe muhahahahah!!!
Ok, some parts of Europe…Bracketed income tax is a thing for a reason, and it is a good reason.
more income == more tax.
If I’m making less than $20k/year, there’s no reason to give a shit about my taxes, just let me live yo.
If I’m making $200k+/year, then we have a conversation on our hands.
If I’m making 2,000k+/year, then we have a problem and the conversation should have have been completed by now.
edit:
exact numbers are not relevant. if you have a functioning brain, then you know what I mean.
Uh… Amazon, apple, Google, the billionaires etc all these entities pay
NOTHING
It’s not how you make a sustainable society
How fucked are you if you don’t file?
I didn’t file last year, because I’ve been in a clusterfuck of borderline homelessness and odd jobs for the past two years. Idk if I am even able to file this year if I didn’t last?
if you’re making money and don’t file, it’ll catch up to you. If you’re poor and don’t file they will make your life harder when you try to collect social services
Big part of it was the surprise illegal eviction my ex got to do when he wanted to move in his prostitute (cops in OK don’t give a shit about your rights if your trans lol). Navigating the divorce system with no money, all the paper work that I have no idea if survived the parents guest room -> friends couch -> apartment.
There aren’t social services here anyway at least lol
I’m getting a $10,000 refund for federal income tax (overestimated when paying my estimated taxes), but I owe $9,500 for Californian income tax. <_<
