• Hegar@fedia.io
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    5 months ago

    led crowds in chants of “free, free Palestine” and “death, death to the IDF” [The BBC said:] “The antisemitic sentiments expressed by Bob Vylan were utterly unacceptable … " [Starmer said:] “appalling hate speech.”

    “Free Palestine” is not antisemitic. Criticism of a nation state’s armed forces is not antisemitic. Especially when those armed forces are objectively committing genocide.

    • LupusBlackfur@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Pfft…

      Only the rational and reasonable buy into what you’re putting forth here…

      Which completely and entirely excludes any/all MAGAts and other assorted fascist/authoritarian types that appear to be consuming gov’ts globally.

      🤡 🖕 💩 💩

      • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        5 months ago

        Also excludes quite a lot of Liberals - a lot of people who’ve been brainwashed over the last 3 decades with the fake “leftwing” idea that “it’s not Racism if your descriminiatory acts and judgements favor those of specific races rather than disfavor those of specific races”, are having trouble processing the situation were the self-proclaimed representatives of an ethnic group they’ve learned to see as “victims” and “good people” are actually committing an extreme Genocide along ethnic lines.

        I mean, many have change to the Humanist position that “people should be judged and treated based solely on what they support and they do, independently of race”, by many if not most are still ridding the whole “the entire race are victims” idea and de facto supporting Genocide by attacking the critics of the depraved genocidal actions of the self-proclaimed representatives of the “victim race”.

        This shit would have never reached this level if it was only the openly Fascist being Racist.

    • dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de
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      5 months ago

      I think the issue is the other chant, now I’m not saying that is anti-Semitic at all as that’s insane.

      For what it’s worth fuck the IDF, terrorist assholes.

    • copd@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I’m sure “death to the IDF” is what some people have issues with rather than “free Palestine”

      chanting death for any group idendity en mass will always be controversial, even if it’s for Nazis

      • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        I guarantee you can find droves of zionists that say “free Palestine” implies the destruction of Israel and is therefore antisemitic.

        • rumimevlevi@lemmings.worldBanned
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          5 months ago

          I know many zionists in my neighborhood Facebook group getting mad about events rising fund to Palestinians

        • copd@lemmy.world
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          Anyone who thinks those statements are one and the same is delusional and not even worth talking to.

          If someone can prove to me they’re not a rational human they lose my interest

      • rumimevlevi@lemmings.worldBanned
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        5 months ago

        No, chanting death to Nazi was never controversial. It wouldn’t even be controversial if it was death to the Russian army .

        You are denying Palestinians right to self defense by opposing the chant death to the IDF

        • copd@lemmy.world
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          You’re bubbled, it’s undeniably controversial to chant death to people, especially groups of people. By debating it you agree it’s controversial, do you even know what the word means?

          Please don’t try to say I’m denying Palestinans the right to self defence because I don’t want to chant death to their oppressors. My friend, that’s a wild statement and you should pipe down

          Next you’re going to tell me I’m pro Russia because I don’t agree Putin should be assassinated

            • copd@lemmy.world
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              5 months ago

              I never said that, I don’t think that. I have no idea why you came up with that.

                • copd@lemmy.world
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                  5 months ago

                  How did you go from talking about an English artist performing in England, chanting towards an English crowd about killing foreign army, to asking if I support defending your own nation aganst invaders

                  Do you think I’m supporting the horrors of the IDF because I refuse to stand up and chant death to the IDF?

                  I go to free palistine protests in my own country, I probably do more than most but I draw the line at calling for murder.

                  Extremeism is scary

  • atk007@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    When did IDF become a protected minority group? Is saying “Death to Nazis” not allowed in the UK?

    • copd@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I’ll get downvoted for this but what im about to say is an undeniable fact. Chanting death for anyone is inciting violence and murder, UK governments and police can’t be allowing that, especially as there is no death penalty.

      Yes I know, the IDF incite violence and murder, but does that make it OK to do in UK?

      • k0e3@lemmy.ca
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        5 months ago

        Did they say “IDF” or “IDF members/staff”? IDF isn’t a person, so maybe it’s more of a metaphorical death, as in dismantle the IDF.

        I dunno.

        • copd@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          I’ve thought about this, a metaphorical death/end to the IDF chant is completely acceptable. I guess it’s all down to intent

          the artist chose “death” because it rhymes with IDF. so I wonder if it’s just one of those things

      • Siresly
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        5 months ago

        It may not be legally ok, but it is definitely morally ok to incite (and perform) violence against a genocidal force.

        Crime is only legal if there’s a war. Or if you’re a cop. Or are rich and influential.

    • Mrkawfee@feddit.uk
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      5 months ago

      They are literally all doing this. There is more confected outrage about this than the actual slaughter of civilians by the IDF. I feel like I’m going mad.

      • EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com
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        5 months ago

        They are engaging in an absolutely ridiculous campaign of gaslighting. It’s so outlandish and over-the-top that it would actually be hilarious if it was on a lighter subject matter rather than genocide, terrorism, and a litany of war crimes.

    • Zagorath@aussie.zone
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      5 months ago

      Happy cake day!

      They didn’t even do the most basic of work to attempt to put forward a front of journalistic integrity. They didn’t give Vylan a chance to respond to the article.

      • Limonene@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        They should be more neutral in a non-opinion piece. They quote a lot more people saying pro-genocide things than they quote people saying anti-genocide things. They quoted pro-genocide politicians and pro-genocide BBC staff. They did not give the musicians any opportunity to respond to the article.

        Israel’s war against Hamas in Gaza has inflamed tensions around the world, triggering pro-Palestinian protests in many capitals and on college campuses. Israel and some supporters have described the protests as antisemitic, while critics say Israel uses such descriptions to silence opponents

        Let’s consider the two positions mentioned in this paragraph:

        1. Israel should stop committing genocide

        2. Israel should continue committing genocide, and position 1 is antisemitic

        The first position is described as “pro-Palestinian”, as if these protesters support the Palestinian military (Hamas) and want them to win. This is incorrect. These people mostly just want the genocide to end.

        The second position is a shitty opinion, but also contains an overt falsehood. It’s an objective fact that it’s false, and that fact should be reported in the story, but it isn’t.

        • alcibiades@sh.itjust.works
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          5 months ago

          I agree that they didn’t use enough anti-genocide supporters, their sources were one sided.

          But your second critique would require a complete rewrite and would change the article completely.

          I agree that pro vs anti genocide is the better way to approach the conflict, however, for reporting purposes, it makes more sense to call it an Israel vs Palestine conflict. Calling it pro vs anti genocide means that you have taken the position of calling the conflict a genocide (which I agree with, it is genocide). But as the article states, Israel does not see this as a genocide and neither do a lot of governments.

          AP describes the conflict as a war of Israel against Hamas. Not a war of Israel against Palestine. This could be interpreted as 1) diminishing the genocide and 2) reporting on one specific facet of the conflict ie Israel against Hamas forces, which it could be argued, is a different conflict than Israel against the Palestinian people. This also means that by the articles definitions, Palestinian supporters are different than Hamas supporters.

          Their second position does not say one side is correct and one side is wrong. They say

          Israel and some supporters have described the protests as antisemitic

          Israel and their supporters, not the AP describe protests as antisemitic.

          critics say Israel uses such descriptions to silence opponents.

          Critics, not the AP, say Israel is incorrect in their antisemitic descriptions.

          If the article did what you wanted, it would be an opinion piece about how we need to call the conflict a genocide, and all future reporting should reflect this.

          I don’t think this article is very supportive of the Palestinian people’s struggles. I also don’t think it supports the Israelis. It is tip-toeing the very fragile line of (falsely accused) antisemitism that they write about. It isn’t perfect, but it’s unfair to call it pro Israel.

        • alcibiades@sh.itjust.works
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          5 months ago

          Also I think what is really shitty is that outlets report on a genocide in this matter. But this article was about the response to Bob Vylan. I think both of us are angry about how anything related to the genocide has to be reported as the Israel Palestine conflict unless you want to receive an extremely negative response to your reporting.

          Hell if we want to be all intellectual we can brand this as another symptom of the global capitalist system. AP can’t afford to call this a genocide. No news/corporation is brave enough to stand up to the genocide because it’s gonna hurt their bottom line.

  • merdaverse@lemmy.zip
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    5 months ago

    I hope the entire world’s eyes are by this point open to the hypocrisy of the West. Kneecap and Bob Vylan being labeled outrageous or on trial for terrorism for… words, while weapons shipments continue to flow to the IDF, Netanyahu (with an arrest warrant for war crimes) flies through EU airspace unhindered, and the bombing of civilians in Gaza generates less news than a chant at a concert. Absolutely disgusting.

  • huppakee@feddit.nl
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    5 months ago

    To be honest I had never heard of Bob Vylan before, so the people screaming they should be banned (so they dont become known?) reached the opposite effect, at least for me personally.

  • MetalMachine@feddit.nl
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    5 months ago

    Meanwhile, the nazi IDF can come and go and take a break from genocide in the US and the rest of the these European countries

    • Pyr@lemmy.ca
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      5 months ago

      I wonder what the term is for anti-palestinian? The equivalent to anti-Semite but for Muslims I guess? Just Islamophobia? That doesn’t have a good ring to it. We need a good term to use that Palestinians can play the racist card with for the next 100 years like Israel does.

      • MetalMachine@feddit.nl
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        5 months ago

        Not sure, but on a side point I reject any “anti semitism” claim because:

        1. usually its just used to try to silence you

        2. they’re the ones anti semitic because Palestinians and arabs are semitic.

        So maybe actually we should re-purpose antisemitism.

      • GalaxySurfer@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Whatever it is, the only way to win this battle is for people to start using that new word to call out people who are quite obviously hateful. With enough use of the word over the years, it will have the same shameful effect as what they have done with the word the other side uses

  • EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com
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    5 months ago

    We need to start banding together and voting these pro-genocide politicians out of office.

    Oh, AIPAC supports you? Enjoy getting primaried. Watching their heads spin when Cuomo lost to Mamdani was fucking gold.

  • Siresly
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    5 months ago

    The inhuman madness of finding the problem regarding this situation to be protestors of Israel’s genocide, and not the genocide, is as absurd and abhorrent as it is overwhelming.

    Let’s get outraged about and strive to cancel and imprison someone who used violent language at a force that is mass-murdering children. Just surreal. What leads someone to become this fucking detached from their humanity? It’s just incomprehensible.