All from in this thread in !world@lemmy.world about a chant at a British music festival where an artist said “death, death to the IDF”.

After other users were quoting that chant in the comments and had comments removed and banned, the hero of our story, @theacharnian@lemmy.ca (appearing as “acargitz”) pointed out that under international law, fighting an occupying force is legitimate. But apparently not under world news rules, as their removed comments and the many explanations from mods make clear in the thread.

Equally against the rules is the call for the eradication of an organisation or business, even without an explicit call to violence against individual members of the business.

In the same thread: user @DeathToTheIDF@lemmings.world had comments removed for being anti-American “(again)”, though I couldn’t see the first time. It’s not even clear to me how the removed comments were anti-American.

Bonus points for the “DC Comics” removal reason. Though this seems to be incompetence, rather than malice.

  • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
    43·
    10 months ago

    if [[ instance == "lemmy.world" ]] && [[ topic == "Palestine" ]]; then echo "PTB"; fi

    Serious now, PTB.

    Since the existence of the state of Israel causes violence in the Levant, anyone defending the “survival” of that ethnostate is promoting violence. And yet you don’t see LW mods removing comments defending it - why?

    • Zagorath@aussie.zoneOP
      32·
      10 months ago

      Oh geez, it gets even worse.

      According to the mod @jordanlund@lemmy.world, even just advocating an end to genocide is worthy of a ban. Like, when you’re really specific and say you’re talking about ending institutions that are doing genocide rather than people, that gets you a ban.

      And so is calling out a person who is advocating for genocide by their choice to silence anti-genocide views. (Officially, my ban was for being mean, but let’s be honest, the real reason is that they felt called out over their support for genocide.)

        • Zagorath@aussie.zoneOP
          9·
          10 months ago

          Seems to be. It’s certainly where I’d prefer to post, although it’s not clear to me what its intent is. What makes “world” news? Non-American? That’s my assumption for the LW one. But on quokk.au is it non-Australian?

          Regardless, where I choose to post doesn’t help when I’m commenting on another post. Which is most often the case in any world news Community.

          • Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            9·
            10 months ago

            From my understanding, it’s the world without restriction.

            US News, if it ever spams up the feed with minutiae articles would be put to a vote. It seems to be working well so far. We have a diverse range of international media sources and I have even see some Unicorn Riot articles.

      • jordanlund@lemmy.worldBanned
        6·
        10 months ago

        Alternatively, stupid fucking users can’t tell the difference between removing calls to violence and supporting genocide.

        Then they get butthurt over a temp ban for repeated rule 6 violations.

        If you’re going to participate in a community, READ THE FUCKING RULES.

        “Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.”

        https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=135438

        • Zagorath@aussie.zoneOP
          31·
          10 months ago

          And yet when I went point by point explaining how the comment that you banned the other user for clearly was not a call to violence, you banned me instead. You still have not attempted to justify how you believe it was a call to violence.

          In the absence of even an attempt to justify you actions otherwise, the only obvious interpretation is that you want to avoid criticism of Israel’s genocide.

          • jordanlund@lemmy.worldBanned
            6·
            10 months ago

            Rule fucking six:

            “regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.”"

            This you?

            Unlike other mods you bullied off Lemmy, I cannot be bullied. Take your bitch ass to Jon like you did with Wren, go on, I fucking DARE you.

            • Zagorath@aussie.zoneOPEnglish
              15·
              10 months ago

              I like how every chance you get, you choose to avoid addressing the actual issue of why you’re banning users for breaking a rule that they very clearly did not break. You choose to concentrate on the part where I hurt your feelings 😭 instead of the underlying lie that the other user was inciting violence in the comment that got them banned.

              Take your bitch ass to Jon like you did with Wren, go on, I fucking DARE you.

              Lol, nice job completely misreading what happened there… I have to assume it’s on purpose.

            • Universal Monk@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              7·
              10 months ago

              Unlike other mods you bullied off Lemmy, I cannot be bullied. Take your bitch ass to Jon like you did with Wren, go on, I fucking DARE you.

              Tho you’re wrong in this thread, I do admire that spunk! I can appreciate anyone refusing to be bullied off of Lemmy; lots of people tried to bully me off of Lemmy. So definitely don’t leave Lemmy.

              But alas, it’s .world, so I’m gonna have to say PTB! Because .world is one of the most toxic instances on Lemmy, and your comm is one of the most toxic comms.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  7·
                  10 months ago

                  attacking me for being pro-genocide is not factual.

                  Well, no one’s going to praise you for being pro-genocide.

                • FelixCress@lemmy.worldBannedBanned from community
                  6·
                  10 months ago

                  Facts are encouraged,

                  So, when he called you a “fucking maniac”… 🤔

                  🤣🤣🤣

        • BussyGyatt@feddit.orgEnglish
          13·
          10 months ago

          So… if I’m reading this correctly, simply observing the fact of moderator’s existence is against the rules under the sole discretion of the moderator-being-regarded? And the exclusive written remedy for this infraction is the removal of the relevant comment? And you don’t see a conflict of personal and professional interest or how the combination of your actions and the rules are perceived to be a power trip.

          • jordanlund@lemmy.worldBanned
            3·
            10 months ago

            We remove any comment attacking other users and DOUBLY so when it’s attacking moderation.

            But that seems to be the whole point of PTB - “How dare they moderate meeeeeeee??!?? I’m special! I deserve no moderation!”

            • BussyGyatt@feddit.orgEnglish
              17·
              10 months ago

              Idk bro it’s giving “2 young black state congressmen expelled from congress for speaking truth to power on the pretext of decorum”

            • Zagorath@aussie.zoneOPEnglish
              7·
              10 months ago

              We remove any comment attacking other users and DOUBLY so when it’s attacking moderation.

              That seems completely arse-backward. Which I guess makes sense given who we’re talking about, but it’s still disappointing. Mods would be held to a higher standard. Making the punishment for being mean to a mod harsher than any other user is like when bootlickers believe police should be entitled to abuse the public but the punishment for defending yourself is more extreme than for actual violence against random people.

              Forget any specific case. I’m not arguing for you to reverse my ban. This is just bad on principle.

              • jordanlund@lemmy.worldBanned
                1·
                10 months ago

                PTB shows exactly why shutting down mod abuse is important. The last thing we want is shit-show comment threads like this in our communities.

                We don’t allow users to bitch slap each other, why should mods be forced to take it?

                • FelixCress@lemmy.worldBannedBanned from community
                  3·
                  10 months ago

                  PTB shows exactly why shutting down mod abuse is important.

                  In this case you should apologise and reverse all your actions.

                  Or resign.

          • jordanlund@lemmy.worldBanned
            2·
            10 months ago

            Palestinians aren’t arguing here. They have actual worries bigger than what people are saying online.

              • jordanlund@lemmy.worldBanned
                1·
                10 months ago

                They may very well be, though given the devastation to their infrastructure, it seems increasingly unlikely.

                And anyone is welcome to come and discuss all the various and voluminous crimes of the Israeli state, so long as they do not advocate for violence.

                My old roomate’s brother was a doctor during one of the multiple illegal Israeli occupations of Southern Lebanon.

                The IDF would show up at his house in the middle of the night, tell him if he resisted he would be shot, haul him off to god knows where to treat some prisoner, and then dump him at the side of the road like so much garbage.

                Want to call to end that? Great! Prosecute that shit? Absolutely. Call for the deaths of everyone involved? That crosses the line and will get your shit removed.

                • FelixCress@lemmy.worldBannedBanned from community
                  9·
                  10 months ago

                  Want to call to end that? Great! Prosecute that shit? Absolutely. Call for the deaths of everyone involved? That crosses the line and will get your shit removed.

                  🤣🤣🤣

                  Next time when history repeats and yet other nazis start occupying some nations and murdering people, ensure you have some stern words for them.

            • rumimevlevi@lemmings.worldBanned
              9·
              10 months ago

              How stupid can you be to think palestinians are not happy when idf soldiers who are comiting genocide and killed dozens of their family members die in gaza

          • jordanlund@lemmy.worldBanned
            4·
            10 months ago

            It’s really simple, don’t advocate for violence.

            For example, I just removed a comment from a Trump thread:

            “Will no one rid us of this turbulent President?”

            Seems innocuous, right? Nope, it’s a call for assassination.

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_no_one_rid_me_of_this_turbulent_priest%3F

            Not allowed. It’s an EDUCATED call for assassination, but still a call for assassination.

            Other comments below it were more direct and also removed.

              • jordanlund@lemmy.worldBanned
                2·
                10 months ago

                No, it’s not OK to call for violence against ANYONE. Full stop. There is no list of “OK to threaten this person or group, but not these others.”

                The only stuff that slides are the comments that never get reported. Mods are volunteers and we have lives, we aren’t reading every comment looking to fuck with threads.

                We DO read every report and take actions based on them.

                • FelixCress@lemmy.worldBannedBanned from community
                  9·
                  10 months ago

                  No, it’s not OK to call for violence against ANYONE. Full stop

                  Are you going to remove comments saying “Israel has a right to self defence”? As Israeli “self defence” means murdering civilians by any means available.

              • Universal Monk@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                1·
                10 months ago

                For real tho, Lemmy needs to stop with the murder talk. I am seeing a lot of it. Murder execs. Murder presidents, etc. I’m all for “fuck tha Man!” but let’s not glorify or advocate for murder. It’s pretty sickening. It’s not a good thing for Lemmy to have a bunch of extremists talking about murdering people (or using code-words for it).

        • LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net
          1·
          8 months ago

          I feel like Lemkin’s definition is far more expansive than the way the word has come to be used. But it’s a very contentious word in general.

    • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
      5·
      10 months ago

      I’m going to reply to myself because there’s a huge discussion in the comment chain, and I’d rather speak freely than specifically address what they’re saying. And because this is 90% rant.

      A country is not the people it rules over. A country is not a human being. A country is an abstract structure of power. A country is an “it”.

      No country should be seen as having a “right of self defence” or crap like that; it’s the same as saying “I hate people so much I’d put them on the same level as an abstract structure.” It’s genuinely disgusting.

      And someone might say “well ackshyually the Israelis have a right of self defence”. Sure; unlike the state of Israel, the Israelis are human beings, they do have the right. However (and this is important), the ones joining the war against Hamas and the Palestinians are not just “defending themselves”; they’re putting themselves at risk to defend that abstract structure.

      And people keep oversimplifying this shit as if it was “Israel was attacked, so it’s self-defending”. More accurately, what’s happening is that the state of Israel was attacked by Hamas, and using the attack as excuse to kill the Palestinians.

      It gets worse. The continued existence of that “it” is causing people to be killed, since it’s an ethnostate on the same level as Apartheid South Africa. By assigning “it” a human right of self-defence, you’re giving the “it” an implicit thumbs up to kill actual human beings. Now you aren’t even putting human beings on the same level as an “it”, you’re putting them below the “it”.

      inb4 something that sounds pretty much like “B-but right of self defence! Apartheid South Africa is defending itself, from terrorists like Rolihlahla! Are you siding with the terrorists?”.

      (I do plan to read replies but I’m not arsing myself to reply to them.)

    • rumimevlevi@lemmings.worldBanned
      21·
      10 months ago

      Regardless. The mod is removing anybody comment about death to the idf. The occupation force that is currently committing a genocide and that international law give Palestinians the right to self defense against them

    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works
      21·
      10 months ago

      Ok, what about the main complaint under discussion? That apparently it’s not allowed to call for the Palestinians to fight back against the IDF?

    • ArxCyberwolf@lemmy.ca
      5·
      10 months ago

      And they’ve been doing so since last year. How little of a life does someone need to have to dedicate this much time into being banned over and over? It accomplishes absolutely nothing, the comments get removed in two easy clicks before most people will even read them. Hell, it takes less effort for the mods to ban Antiyanks than it does for them to make a new account. I’m pretty quick to spot and report Antiyanks accounts, and even still I often see them gone before I even read the thread.

      According to what they’ve told me in a fit of rage after reporting and getting them banned on numerous occasions, they’ve “declared war” on Lemmy because they keep getting reported and banned and have some sort of “army” of alt accounts to wage it with. Being told they’re not welcome for their poor behaviour and constant ban evasion is considered “censorship” and that must be the single worst thing to have ever happened to them because what they’re doing is so far beyond what a reasonable person would do in this situation (namely, moving on with their life and finding anything better to spend their time doing).