So for people criticising with rain, wind, snow, and groceries - none of these are nearly the issues you think they are, and there are a wide variety of bike configurations and gear that address these challenges.
The real issue is having to share the road with cars. I’ve just had too many close calls, and the growth of self-driving vehicles makes me more nervous to be on the road than ever.
Because of cars I hate being on the road whether in a car or on a bike, and every car that passes by automatically makes me tense up these days. I hope a new Carrington event makes all of them useless.
Yes, weather is just a matter of gear, and these days the wet and cold weather gear is amazing. The best bike gear isn’t cheap, but it’s much cheaper than the typical repair on a car when something breaks. Panniers are an easy way to carry a lot of groceries with minimal effort. If someone has a huge family there are also cargo bike options. But, of course, with modern American cities, there might not be a grocery store in a reasonable biking range. There used to be mom-and pop grocery stores all over the place. And, in Europe it’s pretty common for there to be a small grocery store within a 5 minute walk of your house.
But, North American roads are designed only for cars. Bicyclists and commuters pay taxes to maintain roads, but the roads are built for cars and trucks. To really feel safe on a bike, you need separated bike lanes. You build those, and people will use them.
In many places in North America, a bike lane is merely a thin strip of pavement that’s centimetres from passing cars, and in the door zone of parked cars. Even in good weather that’s dangerous. In bad weather it’s truly awful. But, people still use those bike lanes. In fact, some people even bike and share the road with cars where the bike lanes don’t exist. That should be a clue that people are dedicated to cycling, and if you built actual good bicycle infrastructure, a lot of people would use it.
Bitch it’s negative 40 I’m not taking a bike. I’m not walking. That’s insane.
Well just keep on burning your fossil fuels, and you won’t have to worry about it getting that cold again :3
Most people aren’t driving in that weather either. Temperatures like that happen very rarely even in very cold places.
Negative 40 (yay, I don’t have to clarify whether it’s Celsius or Fahrenheit!) is navigable. Take proper clothing!
Source: living and walking in a northern city
until it’s not, i wouldn’t want to be out in that at all
anything past like -10 is crazy cold
Where the fuck do you live that it gets -40?? Antarctica??
I’ve made bike commutes in those temperatures, and yeah, I would say it’s dangerous and most people shouldn’t do that unless they’ve got some kind of fully enclosed, motorized bike with active heating.
It is worth noting that with proper winter gear, since biking is more physically demanding than driving, it is possible and likely that most winter bike rides will cause you to generate enough of your own body heat that you might actually feel the need to remove your jacket. At negative 40? Absolutely not. But I’ve done so at temperatures as low as zero.
And to be fair, you shouldn’t be expected to drive at temps as low as negative 40 either. If you’ve got a long car commute and your car breaks down in the middle of nowhere, you are dead. At least with a bike-centric lifestyle it pressures you to prefer jobs that are closer to home, so it might actually be less dangerous.
I don’t share the road, I take the road. You will overtake me like you would overtake a car, plus it gives me the space I need to swerve around the craters in the road. Some roads are bumpier than Paschendale.
I used to do that, then a car flew by and damn near killed me.
People generally don’t like losing their license here
Could have fooled me, given how utterly stupid motorists routinely get every time they drive around bicyclists.
Traffic accidents happen so frequently it is one of the top causes of yearly deaths. Humans are not responsible enough to deserve to drive.
Vehicular cycling is a bad meme
It’s less disability-friendly than a car, can’t carry cargo, and can’t transport passengers. You try to have a suburban family with just bicycles - especially if one of the kids has balance issues from early childhood onward. It’s not possible. The automobile is viewed as the ultimate symbol of freedom because it can serve multiple roles and has a massive variability in speed.
“you try to have a suburban family with just bicycles”
Almost like those suburbs were designed around cars at the exclusion of all other transport
Almost like those suburbs were designed around cars at the exclusion of all other transport
Absolutely true, but it’s still where we are.
With this mentality that’s also where you’ll be in 20 years.
Change starts small.
“Less disability friendly than a car”
I completely disagree but it’s debatable.
What kind of handicap can allow you to drive but not bike ? Bike are extremely adaptable to any kind of handicap, to the point that they can basically be turned into an electric wheelchair.
can’t carry cargo
I disagree again, it does carry way less cargo but can still carry cargo.
can’t transport passengers
Why do we need to carry passagers ? Because a lot of people (child, elderly people, people without license) cannot drive and because car are expensive. If everyone can use a bike and the bike are so cheap that you can have a few aroumd for guests it greatly reduces the need for carrying assengers.
And you can still carry passagers on a bike, the best example is longtails bike that can carry an adult or several kids as passagers.
kid with balance issue
Longtail and tricycles.
Cars are amazing pieces of technology, they do have unique capabilities like doing unscheduled, flexible long distance drive, or carry a lot of cargo at once.
But for a lot of the daily living a bike (and proper bike infrastructure) would be way better suited to the situation.
I want to add my experience to this :
I’m disabled, on a good day I just get tired pretty fast. On a bad day even walking hurt and I need to rest every 15 min or so. I can’t drive because I have narcolepsia.
You would think that I would love getting around car but I don’t. When everything is made for car I need to walk a lot more even if someone drives me because parkings tend to not have a lot of benches and everything is farther because parking take space. It also makes crossing street horrible because I have to wait a long time for cars to stop.
If everything is bike friendly dedicated transport is faster and can afford to stop exactly where I need it and when I need it. I can take the bus, tram or train if something is too far, and I can stop when I need because bus stop have benches. On top of that everything is closser together since there little or no parking so a 15 min walk get me to more places. If i need to take a lot of grocerie I can just take a chariot, the only downside is sometimes there is noisy kids in the bus but this is solved by noise canceling headphones.
I know this is my experience ( which is obviously not universal ) and public transit / bikes are not a silver bullet that fixes everything mobility wise but earing the “bike centric infrastructure is ableist” rant feels downright insulting when it’s the thing that allow me to not depend on friends driving me.
E-bikes are great for people with disabilities who can balance and the elderly. I see old people zipping along on e-bikes a lot here in LA. For everyone else, public transit or para transit is often a better option than a car. A car that can accommodate a wheelchair or disabled driver is usually expensive.
Adult tricycles are great for people with balance issues.
The main reason wheelchair-accessible vehicles (usually a minivan) are so expensive is because no major manufacturers construct them in the factory. So you’re paying for the original vehicle, plus a third party to remove the middle seats (what happens to them, I’d like to know!) cut the sides and lower the floor, adding sections to the doors and rerouting the wiring, install a ramp and “kneeling” capabilities, plus tiedowns and in some cases special controls for driving. Also the driver’s and front passenger seats are set into removable raised platforms. The automatic doors have become standard but used to also be part of the conversion. If the body were constructed with these differences from the start, perhaps in a dedicated factory, the savings would be considerable.
The savings are even greater if you take public transit, which is much roomier than any van and has no associated fuel/repair costs that you’re responsible for. It sucks everywhere doesn’t have such options.
Even places with otherwise-decent public transportation often don’t have adequate disability-accessible public transportation. In fact it’s often the longest-established systems that are the worst for disabilities.
That’s part of why I’m so thrilled with LA transit! I’ve literally never seen anywhere better for people with disabilities on the general public transit (as opposed to paratransit). In other cities I know bus drivers will tend to skip stops with a wheelchair user waiting because it slows them down. Here in LA the driver will get up, make sure they’re secured if they need it, and double check what stop they’re getting off on so they don’t get stranded. And I see a lot more wheelchair users just out going about their day here than I did in other cities, which I don’t think is a coincidence.
It was a huge deal for us the first time we flew back into LAX and there were accessible taxis at the taxi stand. In the old days there were like 2 vans for the whole city and we’d wait hours. Of course LAX is fucked right now but it’s temporary and there’s still lots of the cabs, because they’ve realized they’re also great for hauling luggage. The Metro stations also seem pretty accessible although we haven’t had much occasion to use them. Maybe once they finish the Westwood station.
Not everywhere has public transit. Also, the people with families can’t spend 2 hours each way getting to work. I’m for bikes and public transit, it’s just not the answer to everything. You’re comments are being naive about this.
Thanks for emphasizing the last part of my comment: it sucks everywhere doesn’t have such options. Good public transit isn’t going to take 2 hours each way, and it sucks transit isn’t decent everywhere.
Seattle’s transit is getting better, but it’s still a long haul. If you live in a suburb and your work is in Seattle, but not close to the transit, you’re in for a slog.
Yeah, honestly the “just get a bike” rhetoric is general pretty ablist.
If everyone except for those with disabilities switched to public transport, bikes, it’d be a massive improvement.
I don’t think anyone wants to outlaw motor transport, especially for those without other options.
Everything is ableist if you think about it enough. “Just get a car rhetoric” is ableist against blind people. Even “just take public transit” is ableist against immunocompromised people.
A society should make accommodations for those with special needs, but we don’t have to give those accommodations to everyone who asks. Some people will need a car, that doesn’t mean your average able bodied person should be driving one, and most of the “just take a bike” rehtoric is directed towards those people.
There are 3 wheel trikes that help with some disabilities and balance issues, you absolutely can carry cargo with a bike and while you can’t carry a family of 4 on a single bike you can on 2 bikes. I literally can’t imagine being a contrarian about freaking bicycles.
Nonsense, you can absolutely have standard cargo bikes like this:
Or cargo bikes with gunner seats mounted in them
And there are recumbent and adaptive ebikes and normal bikes too, for people with disabilities or balance issues. Heck, you can even attach trailers to virtually any standard bike, and many different trailer options exist, from pet carriers to cargo, to food service to fully adult men.
Bikes shouldn’t be going above 28mph anyways. We have high speed rail if someone wants to do 150mph through a city.
Cars are definitely the present, but they absolutely don’t need to be the future.
less disability-friendly
Trikes exist, and some even have a bench seat and storage behind the driver
can’t carry cargo
The humble milk crate begs to differ. Also you can buy a cargo trailer if you need to haul more than a panier’s or a milk crate’s worth of stuff
can’t transport passengers
Hook up a trailer. They start at just $100 on Amazon or get one from a garage sale or local buy/sell listings or even the local bike shop might have used ones. The one I use for all of the kids school pickups and dropoffs I got at a garage sale for $20 and it’s also got space for cargo as well as children
You try to have a suburban family with just bicycles - especially if one of the kids has balance issues from early childhood onward
Mom and dad each ride a normal grownup bike, then each kid rides what’s appropriate for their age, needs and abilities, whether that’s a trailercycle, riding in a trailer, their own bike or even a trike
The automobile is viewed as the ultimate symbol of freedom because it can serve multiple roles and has a massive variability in speed.
Ehhh. Cars are great at what they do, but they’re expensive as fuck to own and completely suck when too many people want to drive to/from/through the same place.
Honestly in the car dependant hellscape that is America I think the best possible balance is one car and a family of bikes for every family. You can usually take bikes on the bus, bikes don’t require any meaningful amount of fuel (ebikes take like one laptop’s worth of energy to charge) and they’re freaking fun to ride as well as being good for fitness and mental health. But you also have the car for longer trips or trips on roads that you can’t safely/legally bike on. Bikes are freaking awesome, and you can throw so many attachments onto them to make them carry just about anything
Try having a disability that prevents you from driving and you may see just how shit car dependency is.
My unfortunate blend of disabilities means that I can neither drive nor bike. I’m at my best in places with good taxis/rideshares supported by buses. Trains, light rail, and the like are nice ideas, but I have to take a cab or a bus from the station anyway, so I might as well go door-to-door in the cab. So I do want car dependence, because as we become less car dependent, we lose mobility.
Suppose it depends on where you live and disability, someone I went to school with couldn’t drive but could walk, bike or bus for free. Had to pay for the train like everyone else though.
This doesn’t work if you have any distance to go. I spent 8 years without a car, and I’ll never do that again. I love my bike, but no.
That’s… What you have trains for. If you have proper public transit, that need is covered. Oh, and you can get shit done while you’re on the train. Or sleep. Or relax.
I really wish most places had better public transit.
A major city near me ends public transit at midnight, despite most late night venues being open much later than that… And their transit system is “good” by comparison to what’s in cities nearby me, and I’m still a 15 minute drive from any of them (at least). It would take me most of the day to commute to the nearest major city by bike/public transit.
Still… I wish.
Motorbike.
Vroom
I miss cycling. I live in the middle of goddamned nowhere, so driving in mandatory to get anywhere relevant. I hate that this is the case, but there’s just about fuck all I can do about it.
I will comment that I take issue with bikes being “cheap”. If you ride a bike even remotely seriously, your bike is not cheap… It might not be expensive, but you quickly realize why cheap bikes are cheap.
If you ride a bike even remotely seriously, your bike is not cheap… It might not be expensive, but you quickly realize why cheap bikes are cheap.
Spot on. I’ve got about $3k into my bike, but it’s not a fancy race bike (it’s a steel fixed gear), so I invested in bombproof parts that could end up outliving me. Once a year I’ll replace the tires/chain/brake pads, service the bearings, and strip/regrease a few parts, so the running cost is maybe $15/month. If you’ve got a road bike with a 2x drivetrain, or if you’re paying people to service your bike that might go up to $30/month, but still negligible compared to a car.
I live in Utrecht, The Netherlands. I can’t park anywhere, my bike will be removed if not stalled in a bike parking spot. I do need insurance, my bike was 4k. There are bike traffic jams sometimes. The rest is all true. No parking fees, no road tax, etc. Just a bit wet sometimes. But my city has one of the best, if not the best bike infrastructure in the world. It’s stupid it’s not standard everywhere.
“Equipped with this tool, man outstrips the efficiency of not only all machines but all other animals as well.”
Ivan Illich on the bicycle. Energy & Equity
real freedom is heelys
I don’t miss falling on my face… that would probably hurt a lot more now than it did two decades ago.
Out of curiosity:
What’s that “note” a bike doesn’t need?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loan_note
Shorthand for a loan I imagine.
Thanks, didn’t know that.
Leases are often referred to as car notes in slang.
Thanks, never heard that before…
Bikes are cool and all, but no AC. And no good for a 40 mile highway commute. I also enjoy comfy seats and being able to easily and comfortably transport multiple people with a nice sound system etc…
And no good for a 40 mile highway commute.
Your infrastructure sucks.
You’re not wrong, but am trapped here. 🧐 Bikes will still never be as comfortable or have entertainment like a car unfortunately. There’s just something different about driving and playing music.
Headphones exist.
And confort of trains will always be categorically better because you literally only have to get in and do nothing until you’re there.
I feel like you’re arguing with someone that’s actually on your (our) side here… Trust me, this doesn’t sound like the guy that agrees with an extra lane replacing a sidewalk, or the guy that hates the tram line that takes up a lane…
We should consider not being this aggressive in our speak with someone that’s actually a friend…
Just dodge the screaming homeless people, tweakers and the occasional pile of vomit.
Transit quality is region dependent. If you’re not fortunate enough to live in an area where transit is well looked after it is not “categorically better.”
This is true but it only shows that transit is seriously underfunded and treated as the bad step child in many areas, something which could theoretically be changed easily.
You are absolutely correct there.
I do my best to vote for better parties man, but I am out-numbered by the stupids who think the answer to fixing problems caused by conservative governments is to elect more conservatives.
During a year where there was a transit stabbing every other week, our mayor took a trip on transit to “combat the perception that transit is unsafe.” She had a full police escort… They’re more concerned with optics than with actually solving problems.
Headphones are nowhere near equivalent to good stereo. I don’t hate bikes, I just think cars are better and more enjoyable to use in general. I’m a bit lazy, also, to be honest. I don’t want to have to exercise to get wherever I’m going all the time.
What’s even better is sitting in an even-more-comfy chair, listening to a better stereo system… at home.
What’s interesting is that when everybody went to remote work during the pandemic, lots of bike commuters would start their day with a ride to the office and back, because the ride itself was fun. I didn’t hear of car commuters doing that, or people at any time enjoying the process of commute driving. We have to add plush lounge chairs and entertainment systems and sensory-friendly interiors to cars to make the experience somewhat palatable, and even then, the distraction of a phone is irresistible for many drivers. Hell, the tech bros promise that they can even automate away the actual driving part, and people are excited by the prospect.
Sounds to me like a car will never hold a candle to a simple bike as far as enjoyment.
There are bone conducting or open ear headphones if you need music.
A car is comfortable, yes, but a bike is too. If it’s not it’s the wrong bike for you - or your bikefit sucks.
Yeah im sure all the trams and busses go exactly where I need them to.
Also, you cant carry anything with a bike outside of a few grocery bags.
Im all for bikes. But cars are insanely useful . what needs to happen is banning of anything larger than a Ford focus, special license required for a pickup (unless its a tacoma size) and better infrastructure supporting bikes and cars together.
Me driving around in my 99 miata is the least of our car problems. Its soccer moms in 100,000 pickups that they are almost always driving alone and never hauling a thing.
My town is 200k, and there’s no way you could bike around it, there’s no shoulders or sidewalks on most roads. Thats a problem of city planners being absolute dumb shits.
By those metrics, a tram wins.
Cars are obviously good for long distances but maybe cars could be banned from city centres (perhaps with exceptions for disabled people who rely on cars, and goods vehicles should probably be allowed). For getting around a city, people can use public transport, or bicycles, or their feet to walk.
Also in cases where cars are used, electric cars are probably a good idea because it results in cleaner air.
I wish our downtown banned them. They take up the whole damn downtown and are way too big now for the original main street.
My town is too spread out to not use any vehicles, and we have 2 huge interstates going through it. Not bikeable.
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You guys have zero understanding of America.
The only way this will even get started is if there’s a push for motorcycles over cars. Thats a good middle ground.
People in every city between LA and New York will laugh at you for trying to use a bike for daily activities. Shit is just too far apart. Which is fine with me, I dont like neighbors, im loud and dont like people watching me in my yard. Probably autistic.
Sounds like a skill issue on your part.
Mostly the urban design skill :-)
If you’re not actively trying to push for designs that promote more walkability and bikability; and instead contributing more to our motor-centric nightmare, then please do everyone a favor and quit your job.
My city is expanding too fast and is too spread out. They refuse to design it better so there’s nothing I can do. Suburbia nightmare roads here.
Like I said, you can quit and stop being a part of the problem.
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I agree.
However I cant think of a single person in my life who would choose public transit even if it was available more. Im sorry but the ugly truth is, it’s dirty, smells, loud, and the people on it are often on drugs (notice im not saying we need to deport and kill homeless people, some people think im saying this but I am just speaking from experience here). Public transport is not the utopia people think it is. Unless you have security and 24/7 cleaning, humans will ruin it (like everything).
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Noy yet! Im sure its much better there. There’s really no hope for American public transport. Too many assholes.
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You should visit one of the university cities in the Netherlands, and then tell me if you’re still fine with cities designed around bike traffic.
Edit: this one’s on me for getting down voted. In my experience, if you go to the university cities, you have to have eyes in the back of your head as a pedestrian. There’s alway some cyclist coming from a random direction at high speed, ringing the bell and expecting you to give way (even in pedestrian zones). So as a cyclist it’s probably nice, as a pedestrian not so much.
Can you write down the problems you have with them? I’ve stayed in Copenhagen for a few weeks with a bike and it was lovely.
I have, I am?
Gonna need some elaboration on this one…
What?
Inexpensive? In THIS economy?
Compared to a car they are damn near free for a used one.
Car go fast
Okay… fine argument.
But… inexpensive?
Really?
I spent 100 euros on my current bike
50 for a second-hand bike at the bike shop 50 for a cargo rack
I got my bike used under 100euro - less than a 5th of it’s original price ant it is a very good bike. Used usually is not so expensive. Unless you are going e-bike, cargo bike, family bike, trailer for a bike, or any specific type. These shits can go pretty much expensive even used. Not as expensive as a car, but still bit cost-y.
sore bum tho
Recumbent, like being in a recliner on wheels.
some pay lots of money to get someone to get their bums sore.
so another bonus
With an appropriate seat, this is not a problem, even in regular clothes. For longer rides, bicycle shorts are recommended, which are padded to avoid saddle discomfort.
