Red Letter Media’s final thoughts on the state of Star Wars were pretty insightful: It’s become a container with a very specific aesthetic that Disney can pile an infinite number of things into: multi-quadrant science fiction blockbusters, preschool cartoons, carnival rides, political dramas, kids adventures, whatever.
It’s since stopped being a finite thing anyone can love anymore. When something becomes everything, it loses distinctness. That distinctness, whatever it was, is what early fans originally fell in love with.
Of course, those original objects still exist, but you have to specify them. You’re an “original trilogy” fan or an Andor fan or the made-for-TV Ewok movies fan†, but saying you’re a Star Wars fan is basically meaningless now. And for people who proudly wore that mantle, through eyerolls and ridicule, that’s a genuine loss.
† Teek from Battle for Endor has a posse.
Disney Star Wars: MCU.
They’re giving Jaxon a movie?
Only if they get James Gunn to do it, and only if they can find something eye-shaped to graphically pierce.
Who?
“Want to sell a lot? Just brand it Star Wars!”
The motivation for making a new show should be “We want to tell an amazing new story set within the Star Wars universe” but it’s actually “We want to make loads of money, therefore our new thing is going to be Star Wars.”
but saying you’re a Star Wars fan is basically meaningless now. And for people who proudly wore that mantle, through eyerolls and ridicule, that’s a genuine loss.
I remember explaining something similar to my partner (not about Star Wars) and about how this isn’t about “gatekeeping” (though it can become gatekeeping) but rather about this loss. I can’t remember exactly what it was about now, but it was some aspect of nerd culture that didn’t exactly become mainstream, but rather morphed to become mainstream.
I’ve only seen ‘Attack of the Clones’, so I guess I’m a fan of that.
Star Wars isn’t good, Andor and Mandalorian S01 are good.
That Christmas special is pretty tight if you live somewhere with legal weed.
I know what I’m looking for this holiday week!
Add Rogue One, as well
I rewatched it (several times, actually…) recently after Andor S2 and was just a little underwhelmed after years of remembering it through rose-tinted lenses. That’s not to say it’s a bad movie. Just kinda mid or slightly above average, which puts it far ahead of the rest of the Disney-era Star Wars movies. But next to the quality of Andor there are definitely some things that stick out.
Some critiques I have are pacing, unearned character flip-flopping when convenient, and supporting characters whose own motivations don’t go far beyond supporting the main characters.
It still has a special place in my heart and this isn’t to say other SW media is without flaw. I think Rogue One is a fun movie but its greatness lies in how it sets up the Andor series rather than anything it does by itself.
I definitely think the best way to appreciate it is immediately following the Andor series, which itself is best after a Rogue One watch, at least the first time around. I.e. Rogue One -> Andor -> Rogue One
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Mandalorian was hammy. I think people reeeeally want to pretend there’s something left in that wrung out dish rag of a franchise when there really isn’t.
the only redeemable quality the mandalorian has is the werner herzog cameo
And both of those definitely got the “popular series that drags on way too long” treatment.
Mando? Yes. Andor? No.
Andor was only two seasons though??
Andor S02 was great tho?
It was, Andor is great. However, The Mandalorian is at least one season too long, the third season isn’t even about The Mandalorian anymore, he was just a side character for a large part of it.
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Well, “dragging on way too long” is the main difference between a movie and a TV-show.
I guess everyone has their own cutoff point. I like works that are longer than movies but don’t go on for a bajillion seasons, especially if they actually seem like they want to tell a story. For me, it doesn’t even matter if the series is consistently good, I just don’t want to watch that much content for one show. Plus the longer it goes on without reaching a conclusion, the more likely it is that it’s just going to get canceled.
I suppose Andor doesn’t really deserve to get lumped in with the likes of Mandalorian here, considering that it managed to finish its story in two seasons.
honestly, Disney’s treatment of the franchise killed my life long love for it
Lucas had already taken it out to the woodshed several times.
The franchise has historically been at its best in the fallow years, when people were just tapping into the IP to tell their own stories.
But you can say the same of Trek, of Harry Potter, of Marvel and DCU. Any time the suits take over, content trends towards slop
Agreed… however, I do have a specially dark and bitter place in my heart for Disney. They have a rotten touch and ruin every IP they buy
I mean, I generally like their original work. Moana, Lilo and Stitch, The Incredibles, Zootopia - all very entertaining, creative, and packed with talented performances.
And they can even make solid kids action movies. Disenchanted, Hocus Pocus, the original Pirates of the Caribbean, Tron - it’s clearly within the capacity of the studio to make good films.
When they buy up these outside franchises and “Disney-fy” them, though… Woof.
disenchanted was disney? i thought that was primarily a groening project.
there’s also a movie with the same name, not to be confused with the Groening/Netflix show.
Disenchanted, the movie. Not the Netflix cartoon. The feature length movie is a sequel to Enchanted, a live-action parody of the traditional Disney Princess trope.
I thought Incredibles predated the Disney takeover? Otherwise I agree
The sequel came out in 2018 and was enjoyable
LucasArts did some of the best Star Wars games. I loved Jedi Outcast, best jedi experience out there, and X-Wing Alliance thanks to the amount of ships the game gave you
I don’t think anyone hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.
I really liked Andor, but that’s because it was trying to be a political spy thriller first, and a star wars show second.
Most Disney Star Wars is really in love with the fact that its Star Wars, to the point that it feels like a child smashing their toys together, than an actual show or movie
Disney Star Wars is really in love with the fact that its Star Wars, to the point that it feels like a child smashing their toys together
Mood.
In a similar vein, I’ve been calling anything post-buyout as “Disney fanfiction”. Some fanfiction is great! But it’s not canon.
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I’ve actually come to dread when they add a sequel to a good movie.
For every Terminator two there’s a Phantom menace.
I enjoyed the P.M., cool world building and lore going on. The new shit however has nothing new or cool.
For all their flaws at least the pt expanded the universe in a coherent and believable way.
For every Terminator 2 there are thousands of Phantom Menaces. It was one of very few good sequels to ever exist.
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It’s sad. For almost ten years people have argued about what went wrong with Star Wars.
Too many genres? The EU was scattershot and unfocused at times, but never hurt the brand in a significant way. In fact, it led to some great books and games
Too much politics? The villain of TPM is named after Newt Gingrich, and nobody really cared. ANH was inspired by Vietnam, and was still a box office hit.
The fanbase hates (insert minority)? While the internet has magnified the extreme weirdos, all six films have some mix of assertive female leads and non-white characters. Lando blew up the Death Star, Mace Windu was considered second only to Yoda. Every clone, etc. Still had a successful brand. Clone Wars focused hard on the clones and is put above the prequels by many of the hardcore fans. This isn’t to say there aren’t awful people who acted unhinged, but that goes for basically every large group of people in human history, let alone fandoms on the internet.
The answer is quality of writing. The originals were written well, and had coherent world building. The prequels struggled with character writing and general complexity, which is why they are more divisive. Good writing is the difference between the comedy of C-3PO and Jar Jar. It’s the difference between Luke and Rey. And it’s the difference between soul and slop.
The people at Disney either don’t understand this, or don’t care. It is an organization of Nico Harrisons who don’t understand the fundamentals of their industry. This pattern has been repeating across pop culture since the 2010’s, and was blamed on culture war instead of the real issue. It’s a miracle that something like Rogue One or Andor was ever greenlit.
Also, did you know the box office drop-off between 4 and 5 is the same, down to the percentage point, as the drop-off between 7 and 8? And yet, 5 is the most beloved, while 8 had so much backlash that Disney panicked and turned 9 into damage control, instead of working off of 8.
The difference? ESB is well written. TLJ broke space combat entirely for a cool visual. I don’t want to absolve TFA, which gets off way too easy because of what followed, but this comment is already too long…
It wasn’t just panic over fan backlash that made them screw up 9. 8 basically left them nothing to work with to get to the ending they wanted. Especially with the tragic loss of Carrie Fisher, who was meant to be the central character of 9.
That was down to a critical lack of planning.
the difference is only that toxic fandom has the bullhorn of the internet now. that’s it. that’s the only difference.
All that great writing and you chose to use acronyms instead of spelling the words.
I dunno if Disney cares much about the writing so long as the property makes money. It’s hard to determine the cash return on streaming shows, though the viewership numbers definitely point towards a trend. Disney likes to characterize the production process as a product in an of itself, but subscribers are unlikely don’t translate that into viewership past the first couple episodes 🤷♂️
I absolutely love the Republic/Imperial Commando series by Karen Traviss which ended in a massive cliffhanger because Disney took over and didn’t allow her to continue.
Fuck Disney, all my homies hate Disney!
There are dozens of us!
Simple. Star Wars has 6 episodes, and that’s it. The rest is odd fan fiction that happens to be filmed in Hollywood. Now, enjoy!
Three, actually. They never got around to making 1-3
They made more star wars after 1977?
the One, True Star Wars fan. XD
Star War fan
I spy an old, but respectable man
star wars is one movie and one movie only. everything after is fanfic dribble
wait, i’ve seen this one before!
What’s a rerun?
Simple. Star Wars has 3 episodes, and that’s it. The rest is odd fan fiction that happens to be filmed in Hollywood. Now, enjoy!
circa 2000.
I’m not so sure you got the joke. You made a Back to the Future reference so I followed up with another one.
you are correct. XD
Andor
Most of these nerd fandoms are desperately throwing money at endless inept projects until it finally gets less shitty.
There’s so much SW stuff that is complete trash.
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I’m glad they got caught up in the streaming wars so they threw a ton of money around. There is zero chance that they will ever make something like Andor again.
The original trilogy is enjoyable, and The Empire Strikes Back stands out as the strongest of the three.
Andor is top tier, with Rogue One serving as a decent conclusion.
Beyond that, nothing else really leaves a lasting impression for me.
“Which did you like better? ‘Jedi’ or ‘The Empire Strikes Back?’”
“‘Empire.’”
“Blasphemy.”
“‘Empire’ had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader’s his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that’s what life is, a series of down endings. All ‘Jedi’ had was a bunch of Muppets.”
I’m a huge star wars fan, every time I hear star wars fans complaining about Star Wars it’s literally just this:
Nah, the new trilogy was just garbage. Not even garbage for Star wars, just bad movies in general. The inconsistent themes and storytelling of the first two left such a shit taste in my mouth I still haven’t bothered to watch the third.
i’ve seen your post a million times before, except about the prequels.
learn how to enjoy life.
lol my life is great, unlike those movies.
sure bud.
spot on. they also don’t realize they’re just repeating the same mistakes of the grognards who were shitting all over the PT twenty years go.
ppl don’t change.
The sequel trilogy sucks. Nothing they (Disney) come out with comes to par with TOR which was for the few trailers it had, were the only thing that captured the essence and vibe of Star Wars since the original 2D Clone Wars animated show. The Mandalorian is alright but it has too many Disney aspects to it that remind of how they mucked up sequel trilogy. GL failed us and sold the franchise to this realms Jabba The Hut.
Yeah, I just stopped paying attention altogether. The sequel trilogy is worse than the Holiday Special lol. I saw Rogue One and I was bored to tears. The Outlaws game requires an EA account to play. Star Wars is dead to me.
I saw Rogue One and I was bored to tears
Alright, hold up
Yeah out of all the meh Star wars and they go to rogue one? To me there’s only the originals, andor, and rogue one
The mandalorian is solid too.
Up until he gives the dark saber away for no fucking reason at all. That was stupid.
I like Rogue One, but for the life of me I can’t figure out why people love Rogue One. It’s a decent enough Dirty Dozen riff in a Star Wars Skin Suit, but it has terrible pacing, a story that didn’t particularly need to be told, unengaging leads (rewatch after Andor helps some but not entirely), and too much fan service. It’s nice that it allows some whisps of moral ambiguity into the Rebellion, and it’s absolutely saved by the climactic battle, but I do not get the universal and enthusiastic acclaim.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Episode 8 is better.
I can’t figure out why people love Rogue One.
On its face, its a good movie. I think what put it over the top was the way in which they folded the final scene so neatly into the opening scene of New Hope.
it has terrible pacing, a story that didn’t particularly need to be told, unengaging leads (rewatch after Andor helps some but not entirely), and too much fan service
Eh. Rewatched it recently and I’ll spot that it feels like three shorter films stapled together. But they’re three good movies. I’ll also say that “story that needs to be told” is the absolute wrong philosophy for the Star Wars setting. The show is at its best when its just people bumping around the Galaxy in the shadow of the tentpole events. You could write a Star Wars sitcom that’s just imperial bureaucrats fucking around in the style of The Office and it could be solid gold. Hell, that’s on-and-off what made The Mandalorian so good.
Lucas made a fun setting full of creative little asides and bits of exotic Sci-Fi art that anyone would peel off and do their own thing with. That’s what makes it so great for video games, TTRPGs, EU novels, comedy sketches, amateur art renditions, cosplay… The franchise is this elaborate sandbox full of fun little toys. Just grabbing a few and swinging them around is fun, whether or not you have the whole history of the extended universe committed to heart.
Also, incidentally, what makes “We’re doing the Death Star again” so hack. You don’t need to build a new death star when you can just play with the one you’ve already got. Test firing on Jedha is fun. Running around a construction site full of spare Death Star parts is fun. Rescuing an engineer is fun. Getting stuck in a trash compactor on the detention level is fun.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Episode 8 is better.
I don’t think you really have to choose. You also don’t really need to throw $30M at every episode (or whatever Andor’s budget was) to have fun in the setting. One reason I enjoyed Solo so much was in how it got back to that slumming-it style of Star Wars. The little vinette of Han as an imperial commando trying to survive the trenches of some mudhole was perfect Star Wars material and didn’t require a metric fuckton of CGI to pull off.
Lol rogue one is the best star wars movie of this century. Not saying its a good movie, just the best star wars movie
It’s also a good movie
Really? You thought so? Perhaps I need to rewatch it.
Isn’t Outlaws Ubisoft?
Yes, but regardless, the real LucasArts Outlaws is on GoG.
OH MARRRRSHALLLLLLLL!!!
Oh yeah, I confuse them. My bad.
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For all their issues, at least the Prequels tried to do something new and bring a completely new style and story to SW.
The Sequels just feel like someone wanted to rewrite the OT because they thought they had better ideas.
The prequels were super rich in world building, good stuff.
If Spielberg hadn’t convinced George to do everything himself, just imagine what kinds of stories we could have had…
Yeah, that was the real problem with the prequels. The ideas were good, but executing them often took Lucas outside of his areas of expertise. He needed more help making them, but everyone he asked told him “no”.
If you skipped Andor because of that, I’d highly recommend at least considering that one. I thought it was an incredible short series with fantastic writing, and that’s coming from someone who basically hates anything other than the OG trilogy.
