Calling for Russians to shoot Putin while condemining “political violins” when Trump got shot will never not be funny.
I was saying BOOligarchs
The double standard is real but also fuck both the US and Russia for invading.
Both based takes
Ye, fuck them both. United states of Russia.
How people see the US as “the good guys” is beyond me. The only thing they had going was defending the rules based global order but that is now becoming less relevant in favor of power politics.
Like objectively, as an American, America has(more like had) great PR but has been a horribly violent imperialist nation for ages. The horrors they’ve exported have destabilized several nations for baseless power grabs and war profiteering.
I’m not saying Americans as a whole but the US government and the forces that actually drive it. Money and power has corrupted this nation and it is evil at its core. The tenuous peace that has existed for the past few decades is propped up but fraud and military excess. It’s not good for this planet as a whole. The genocidal history of America has been white washed and glossed over. What’s they’ve don’t to south America, the middle east, and south east Asia is unforgivable kind of shit man.
They aren’t the good guys, they’re the “victors” who have written history in their favor.
The “rules based global order” was always a bullshit farce: just a term meant to invoke the legitimacy of actual international law without any implication that the US and it’s allies would stop acting like lawless thugs.
Yeah, the global hegemon can always do a “rules for thee, not for me” thing. It’s like trying to fine a king for a parking violation.
From their inception the “rules based” global order and international “law” were simply shields for the imperial cores worst excesses and sticks to beat states that refused to submit. There was no good in defending them they were simply more tools of imperialism.
IDK how you were so ignorant on what the rules based order was despite its obvious misuse for decades but you should look at what Carney said recently.
Spilling the beans because he is upset with his masters.The “rules based global order” has really just been the institution by which the US Empire solidified their hegemony, that’s the only reason they “defended” it.
Pre-WW2, the answer was WASPs convinced of their own greatness. After WW2 it was because the US did a good thing and let it get to their heads. To this day, I’ll see Americans online see the US get criticized and pull out the old “if it wasn’t for us, you’d all be talking German” line. Like dude, you’re taking credit for something you didn’t do, probably wouldn’t do, and it doesn’t justify the shitty things that ARE happening.
And the rules based global order was a good idea that some Americans had but too many other Americans decided that the US got to have constant exceptions to the rules which makes the whole thing ultimately not work.
It must be an election year. Here comes the “both sides” posts
Oh no no no. Not both sides. One side.
Leftists have been opposing the US Empire every day for years, election season has nothing to do with it.
Libs can’t imagine any “activism” beyond voting for garbage people.
Yep, and going to brunch.
I was in a conversation w one yesterday where we were talking about how the Epstein illuminati had been in control of American politics for the last few decades using mass 4chan to control maga and also using reddit to control vote-blue-no-matter-who.
We got to the last election and how they’ll probably engineer the next one and he said that he would vote for Kamala Harris again despite knowing that the Epstein illuminati will mass social engineer a choice between someone like Harris and JD Vance because Vance is a fascist and Harris isn’t; as if we instantly forgot the conversation we were having.
Then I became completely stupified when he posited that Americans will react once they discover how Russia was using Epstein to collect the kompromat.
He’s the most political informed person I know and unquestionably more so than the American plebiscite and even he is clearly conditioned to accept the Russia narrative and i think it makes it clear that our cultural conditioning will outlast any impact that the Epstein will have on our society.
I’m not American I don’t know when their elections are. Liberal doesn’t mean “Democrat” it means someone who believes in the capitalist “free market” policies and opposes alternate economic systems. In the US all parties are Liberal. This meme isn’t even just about Americans, it is more about how westerners in general post on Lemmy about what Russia did in Ukraine versus about what they all did in Iraq.
I’m not American I don’t know when their elections are.
Part of the Yankee political system is that “election cycles” are so long it’s basically always close to one at least. “Election year” describes at least one in every two years.
I’m a liberal, and I support both statements.
“Liberalism is a word that means different things to different people, especially from country to country.”
Liberal values are the basis of Marx’s work. He, rightly in my opinion, thinks the liberal state cannot bring about those values for all people.
Liberalism is all about individual “rights” and “freedoms”. Such as the right of the factory owner to exploit his workers or the freedom of the newspaper owner control the narrative. This is completely at odds with communism.
Marx rejected liberal values of individualism and the free reign of private property, I’m not sure exactly what you’re including in “liberal values.”
@usamemes
No, please, we need liberation. Our government has been a problem for a long time, just that neo-liberals are getting scared.
Liberation, Libya or Syria style?
what kind of natural reserves do you guys have ?
Oil, non-rare earth elements and rare earth elements.
You know what’s even more fucked up? Europe, Australia and even Ukraine sent troops also to murder Iraqis and Afghans then bragged how they did things for the US
That certainly sounds like Europe, Australia, and Ukraine.
ukros fully support the shitrahell genociders
“fully understands the core of international politics” lol
bit timid. I would have gone for
“intimately fathoms the very essence of international politics”
flip on the x-axis
You seem confused if you think supporting Russia and Palestine makes you anti-war/pacifist and supporting Russia and Israel makes you America’s laptop.
Last time I checked supporting Russia and Israel doesn’t make you anti-war/pacifist. And supporting Russia hardly makes you America’s lapdog
Upper right is similar to lower left - inconsistent values and inconsistent ideology. Pure hypocrisy. Dogs of US vs Dogs of Russia.
Supporting Palestine makes you a dog of Russia? Sounds like you don’t fully understand the core of international geopolitics
Do you actually believe it’s inconsistent? Because it’s really quite straightforward: The US-centered capitalist empire must be stopped, and it’s genocidal proxies need to be eliminated, for the survival of the human race.
The inconsistent part is giving a free pass to Russia when they do everything the US does just not as extensively.
If you actually believe they’re doing even a tenth of “everything” the US is doing, you are woefully underinformed to be having this conversation
Russia is not stealing the surplus value and resources of the global south on an immense scale, which is the primary reason why its resistance to the US Empire and its European vassals plays a progressive role because of this.
Russia steals the surplus value for within it’s borders, the US steals surplus value from beyond it’s borders. Like I said, Russia does everything the US does just not as extensively.
So you support the Soviet Union, back when the USSR didn’t steal the surplus value within its borders?
Russia is indeed capitalist, correct, not imperialist. Glad we can come to an understanding on why the US Empire is the biggest global obstacle to socialism, and that the Russian Federation’s lack of imperialism makes it worthy of critical support in undermining the US Empire.
I would love to hear you try to explain how the Russian Federation somehow gained as many sympathizers virtually overnight as the US empire did through decades of world-spanning regime change, propaganda networks and bribery
Supporting the liberation of Donetsk and Luhansk from the Banderite government they have been trying to secede from for a decade is a good thing, and that’s why the CPRF supports the Russian nationalists in the war. Had the west not supported a far-right coup back in 2014, it’s likely the war never would have happened.
That’s like an onion, just layers of naive. Russia has had imperial ambitions on Ukraine for a while and thinking that they care at all about the “liberation” of Donetsk and Luhansk is crazy talk.
“Material concerns? Physical reality? Oh ho ho, how charmingly naive, my dear boy. The true core of the matter is actually very simple, you see. Pushes glasses up anime-style Russia…is Just Evil.”
That broke me lmfao
What “imperial ambitions” do they have? Why would Russia not care about the survival of ethnic Russians right on their borders? Again, the CPRF supports Donetsk and Luhansk, as do most communist parties globally, so just saying I’m “naive” doesn’t actually form a coherent counterpoint.
Honestly can’t tell if it’s satire
Nope, why would it be?
Removed by mod
Campism is when you can remember things that happened more than two weeks ago. And if you can remember things that happened more than three weeks ago, oh buddy, that’s tankie
lmao
Are you arguing that Donetsk and Luhansk don’t deserve liberation, on account of that being a “campist” take? Why would a “non-campist” not support their liberation?
See, if the government of a country want to genocide part of the population and that government is my husbando Zelensky, that me and western media mysteriously agree on being the most wholesome democratic leader ever, that’s democracy in action 😍😍😍 and don’t forget international law applies when evil Russia invades smol bean Ukraine, but if China even ATTEMPTS to breathe near Taiwan, international law is just a technicality anyway, we need to go in and fight evil authoritarian China! I’m very smart, you silly campists!
Pretty much, lol!
It’s libwest.asocial, they support Ukraine because while they think they are anti-war/pacifist western propaganda convinced them that it actually is (it’s also convenient because they don’t have to investigate the other perspective if the enemy are one dimensional orc villains)
Redditor npc response #912
As if Redditors even have enough canned responses to reach 912. I wish they had that much veriaty
Then you might not be very knowledgeable on the topic, lol
Fascist coup? Donetsk and Luhansk?
8 years of war?The average westoid never heard of that.
Can’t make it too complicated for the simpletons.
It all started when the RuZZian Putler invaded innocent ukraine for no reason, just like the conflict in Palestine started on oct 7 and nothing happened before that.
Nah-uh
I really do think that liberals should take a hard look at themselves. They don’t flinch to call Russian soldiers orcs, and ascribe to their foreign policy a mindless bloodthirst. Do they think of US soldiers the same way? Or US foreign policy (even under someone like darling Obama)? Seriously: who is more “evil” Putin or Obama? By what measure?
what? no one reasonable is saying all russians are bad or all americans are bad. being born in a country does not automatically make you a fan of what their military does, that’s just racist
I have seen like two dozen outspoken liberals on this very site refer to Russian people writ large as orcs, and the Russian language as orcish
no one reasonable
I also have yet to see a single reasonable person call this behavior out without immediately being accused of being a paid Russian actor tankie chinese bot. The “orcs” shit has mainstream acceptance in liberal instances. Only leftists object to it, while liberals defend it.
Or literally call for collective punishment https://lemmy.ml/comment/23813202
I don’t think you know what racist means.
Splitting hairs. If you think a group of people are intrinsically worse than others, you are effectively racist.
We can come up with new names, but ultimately it’s all the same. If you think racism means black vs white then your understanding is kindergarten level.
If you prefer, we can use the term bigoted. That term also covers other intrinsic groups like trans, gay and disabled people among others.
I think that Americans, as a group of people, are intrinsically worse than all other people yes. Americans, as a group of people, paid for and enacted a campaign that overthrew the democracy in the country where my dad is from and invaded the country my mom is from and killed a million people including my extended relatives.
So yeah, fuck Americans. Death to America. Cry more about it. Maybe if you as a group did fuck all about it I’d feel different but you don’t you just sit here judging others as if you aren’t the worst people on earth and the global villains.
When a country does war crimes, the entirety of its populace is not to blame, the systems, power structures and people in charge are.
Most people in a country are not for wars or other attacking other countries. This is true for America and Russia alike, to the best of my knowledge (which granted, is anecdotal).
More people should be engaged in activism and should push back against the inhumane actions of their state, and people should be less gullible to the promises of their leaders.
Both America and Russia are overdue for major reform. Their systems are broken and many of their people brainwashed. Wishing harm on them does not help and imo is not a constructive approach. If anything, hate just begets more hate, making things worse.
If you are going to have hate, it should be more focused on the people in power.
The funny thing about “hate begets more hate” is that the user you’re replying to has a good reason to feel hate, and the racist Americans on the other side of that equation don’t. And yet, between those two groups, whose hate results in millions of people dying through sanctions and warfare?
The problem with the idea of “racism” against Americans, or even hatred against Americans being problematic, is that there’s no power structure behind it that makes it real. You’re essentially policing the tone of victims here and acting like their anger at what was done to them is equivalent to the very real wrongdoing they are reacting to.
Thank you for expressing that so eloquently
Thanks. This type of thing is something I see a lot on the fediverse and it bothers me.
Removed by mod
If they were anything like you, they probably deserved it.
- Locate your avatar in the top right of the screen and select “Settings”
- Select “Delete Account”
- Enter your password and select “Delete”
You’re really proving him wrong there. /s
Fine, it’s discriminating against people based on national origin. Whatever you call it it’s stupid
I think destroying my family is worse. Death to America.
Do you think every Russian or every American is just able to leave the country as soon as they realize the awful things their government is doing? People don’t choose where to be born. Whether I was going to be Swiss or American was a decision made before I was born that if I had any say in would probably have gone the other way
I am really not interested in your excuses, when you are indiscriminately killing millions of people with economic warfare. I hate you because of these excuses. Do something about it.
Right. Not wishing death to you personally or your community or etc etc. But your country has no right to exist in its current form, and people projecting their extremely valid grievances on all of you will continue to be a problem until you all organize and change or replace the government. We constantly meet people from your country defending our nations being butchered in the name of democracy™, most people still defend the army and veterans, we have the right to be really angry, and not all of us have the patience to treat you all with silk gloves.
Removed by mod
Sounds like you deserve worse
“Racist” what the fuck man. World’s smartest american just dropped.
Also works for them saying bomb them.
fuck those dirty Russians Ukraine should bomb all the cities
So you want them to hit civilians?
no I meant only places without people but still they need to retaliate
Then why say bomb the cities?
stop twisting my words when I want they’re the evil bad ones
It’s incredibly interesting how, according to western media, all the ukrainian attacks on russian infrastructure never cause any deaths but russian attacks always cause deaths every time.
Usually they just say there are no civilians in Russia and Ukraine killing ANY Russian is completely justified. Not the other way around though.
Also parallels their thoughts on Israel vs Palestine. Israel can kill any Palestinian and be “self defense” but when it comes to Israelis suddenly they care about the civilian distinction.
https://lemmy.world/comment/21824437
They don’t even go that far to distinguish the difference from my experience. Just go I didn’t mean that but I’m just gonna blame you for reading the words I used
(paraphrased) Murdering civilians is what Russia does. Why are you suggesting Ukraine do it?
It’s the only thing Russia will understand.
Later: “Noooo, I never said that Ukraine should murder civilians!”
Later: "Noooo, I never said that Ukraine should murder civilians
how dare you put words in my mouth dirty mler. I totally meant they should ignore civilians when saying it was the only thing Russia would understand
Amazing the overlap with the ones saying usa just needs more dems in congress to fix everything
One of my favorite kind of lemmitors on the fediverse is the “how dare you read the things I wrote” kind, where they start backpedaling only after getting massive backlash and then expect people to automatically believe their “clarifications” are sincere.
Even better when it’s also about something they do that with AND have no idea what they are talking about, cough that banjo guy and minimum wage|ACA being Romneycare|anything political
Who’s out here saying Ukraine should bomb “all the cities”? Most people from the first frame of OP would also be saying stop the bombing, not bomb more. E.g. stop the bombing of Palestine etc.
To echo divas post where the user could not comprehend how them saying Ukraine should bomb Russian cities because it’s the only way Russians will understand was frowned upon.
https://lemmy.ml/post/42340425/23621958
Then what asked to clarify said stop putting words in my mouth
here’s one I ran into just last week, someone claiming to have been unfairly modded on .ml, when they had received a temp ban because they were actually advocating for collective punishment of russian civilians “because it’s the only thing that Russia will understand”:
Stop knocking over their straw man! They worked so hard to prop it up.
