You must log in or # to comment.
The left wants to squeeze the rich until money comes out. Centrist republicans don’t.
That’s why those controlling the Democratic party will not save us. The left needs to take it from them.
The pneumatic press is this century’s guillotine.
PugJesus in a nutshell
Crazy how Lemmy is still small enough to have famous/infamous commenters. I wonder if I have a rep? I feel like I comment a lot but probably nothing compared to them
Well now I’m gonna remember you 🧐
deleted by creator
Is that shithead still around? I thought he might have died
I got into it with him just a few days back, don’t recall what it was over. I’m not a fan.
Democrats should have promised to tax the rich and use that money to build a new Third Reich to appease both sides 🙄
Alternatively force women to have abortions and appease both sides.
Fascism it is I guess. I wish things could be different, but the liberals didn’t want to compromise. Oh well.
Well no. Compromising with the left risks communism. Letting the right get everything they want; that’s just fine.
It’s accurate for sure.
Democrats made a failed attempt to acquire a potentially valuable resource to their cause, Americans who vote consistently.
People who don’t vote or donate to their party are literally worthless in their eyes.
I vote consistently because I don’t want fascism running the government. They take consistent voters for granted. They should court the disenfranchised with progressive policies but that runs counter to their donor handlers’ goals so they pander to the right more and more instead.
Then they will lose funding and the average voter will vote republican because ads work when you are as misinformed as the average voter.
I love how there’s always a bullshit justification for moving to the right like centrists want.
People who don’t vote or donate BIG MONEY to their party are literally worthless in their eyes.
Ftfy
I wish the Democrats had the balls to use that messaging. Instead, it’s us leftists trying to convince the radical centrists like Cassandra of Troy.
Not so much anymore. It’s pretty clear this is what they want.
The moment they capitulated and caved on the shutdown, all to save themselves and their rich friend’s the horror of losing money over the holidays or being unable to fly to some exotic place on the same runways they refuse to pay taxes to fund, the Democrats proved what everyone already knew. They’re controlled opposition. They’ll fight with everything they have to prevent a progressive candidate from getting anywhere near the system while allowing fascism to kick down the door with lip-service opposition.
Before Biden, the performance was believable, or at least palatable. After allowing tRump to skirt consequences for January 6, and even allowing him to be on the ballot at all, it was clear there was no intention of meaningful opposition or change. Until and unless we can remove these legislative dinosaurs and get progressives or working people into positions of power, no change will happen. I fear that with the wealth inequalities and immense power wielded by a few, it may have become too late to contain this beast. Nothing can save this system.
before biden
You weren’t around for 2000 then?
Sure, but how politically active were you in your teenage years and early twenties?
I recognized what was happening as a literal child.
If we could get our own candidates we could take half of the non partisan right voters. Most of them just vote to reject the democrats not endorse the republicans, and are low information. A true populist would take their loyalties, especially now with the America First crowd rejected and scorned by the party. It’s supposed champion being led around by the party starting a dozen wars at a time.
I completely agree. Zohran is a great example - everyone loves him, even Trump. That’s what a principled and charismatic leftist politician looks like. I wish we had more people like Zohran coming into leadership positions in the Democratic party.
Unfortunately, some people are using bad strategies to try and get more Zohrans. Instead of showing up before the primaries and promoting leftist politicians in competition with moderates, they show up after the primaries and attack moderate politicians in competition with fascists. The former is how you get leftists in power. The latter is how you get fascists in power. The two look the same to those who are… less politically adept. But in truth, they have very different effects.
At the same time, republican orientated influence operations are out there yelling and screaming at people trying to get actual populists in the democratic primaries, or during the anointment process in 2024. Influencing the sheep, and wasting and frustrating the left, to help keep a candidate they can beat to run against them. The oligarchy obviously wanting also to keep their license from being revoked, fearing mild reform more than putting an absolute leader in charge, arrogantly thinking they can control the monster they’ve reared on the right.
You are going around blaming those that didn’t pretend the democrats were doing a good job; and were going to win; and that they would do what is needed after they won, rather than those that saddled us with the doomed to fail, constitutionally unwilling to do what is needed candidate. By the time they get their hack “moderate” coronated, we already lost. There was no situation whereby the democrats would continually win elections selling out more every term and spiting their left base indefinitely while being unpopular and not reforming and not enforcing the law against republicans openly working to fix elections.
Biden didn’t even protect the voting officials from death threats. There was zero chance him or his hand picked replacement were going to stop fascists. Once Kamala got in, it was over. I knew it, you should’ve known it. Which is not saying how I did or didn’t vote so don’t give me the typical emotional accusations without evidence of voting to force the person on the defensive. The question is that the republic is doomed the moment we get these democrats as candidates.
I recently played a very fun game of Diplomacy, which is an old board game about international politics. I was playing as Italy, and it was in My interest to keep both Turkey and Russia as weak as possible while I repelled a French invasion, so that once France was no longer a threat, I could conquer both. So what I did is, I formed alliances with both Turkey and Russia, who were new players, and rather than commit troops to aid either side, I gave them both advice on how to outmaneuver the other. If either of them looked about to win, I would give the other one better advice. It worked great, and the Sultan of Turkey was shocked at My betrayal, since I’d helped him so much. He didn’t realise I was playing both sides.
republican orientated influence operations are out there yelling and screaming at people trying to get actual populists in the democratic primaries, or during the anointment process in 2024
I hadn’t heard that before, but I’m willing to believe it. I also believe that right wing botfarms are promoting fringe left wing movements that attack the Democrats, like Jill Stein’s Greens. I think they’re playing both sides, helping amplify the most stalemate-y versions of both our arguments, to keep the American Left opposed to the Democrats.
I’m a bit smarter and more experienced than the Turkish Sultan in My diplomacy game. I know who the biggest threat is. The Republicans in the real world are the Italy of My game. The biggest threat. I, as an anarcho-communist, are willing to stand by the Democrats, help them beat Trump, and stab them in the back right afterwards with a communist revolution. But yelling from the rooftops about how much I hate them, while Trump is still in power, is not part of that plan. My plan involves subtlety.
I was saying that the right aligned influence operations pretend to be democrats and help get the moderates the nominations because they can beat them to be clear your quote makes it sound like I said the opposite.
My point though, by the time it gets to the general election, it’s already over. There is zero percent chance of stopping the fascists with them running the opposition. Moreover people that stick their necks out for democracy get them chopped off even if the democrats win an election in spite of themselves, as Biden squeaked out a win against a president with 40 percent approval hated more than any man in the country by half the population.
As such, it’s not the fault of those that didn’t vote democratic, it would change nothing, fascists were going to win the moment they got establishment candidates in there.
Beyond that, whose fault is it people voted third party? Those establishment figures do nothing but spite the left. People made clear they won’t vote for democrats if they get continually worse, if they continue to betray issues we care about, and they openly spite us at every turn. We knew they wouldn’t get those votes if they continued to be sold out hacks, and they did it anyway, knowing what the republicans were, and what the electorate was.
As such, it’s wrong-headed to blame voters. Keeping a doomed to fail strategy despite knowing it can’t win negates any criticism they have of voters for not betraying their own interests and supporting candidates owned by the rich that openly spite them worse every cycle. They made clear they won’t support them if they do x or don’t do y, and they did x and didn’t do y. If they got the support anyway, they would continue to get worse, already further right, further sold out to big money, than George HW Bush let alone Nixon. Biden really was giving George W Bush a run for his money.
It is wrongheaded to blame voters, and belies being susceptible to the buck passing arguments the establishment uses to stay in power to fail again. Don’t fall for it.
whose fault is it people voted third party?
I don’t think that’s a productive way to think about things. I mean, I could say “It’s the billionaire’s fault capitalism is destroying our climate” and just go home, safe in the knowledge I didn’t start the fire… but that doesn’t actually help anyone. So I don’t deal in blame.
Blame is Gefühlspolitik - politics based on emotion. I love Diplomacy because it teaches Realpolitik - politics based on what the optimal move is to make in the current situation.
In My current situation, I’m not talking to Joe Biden. I can’t change Joe’s mind. I’m talking to you. I can maybe change your mind, if I’m smart enough. I can convince you to adapt your strategy to the situation you find yourself in, to try and buy a few more years before ICE comes for My family. That’s My goal. A few more years for the revolution to grow, a few more years for people to escape.
Do you want a few more years? And given the current circumstances of the situation, what does your logic and cunning tell you is the best way to get them?
On the contrary, without laying blame the same people that failed stay in power to do it again.
You are basically saying don’t look backward but forward. But not forward but forever twirling, twirling twirling!
We need a clear eyed view of the situation, and to employ reason, and reason decrees without qualification that the establishment is doomed to fail, that they aren’t popular, not trying to be popular, and so unable to reliably win at all. That if they do get in will not fix, will not restore, will not enforce the laws against the connected, will continue to allow all captured government agencies to remain so, continue to allow corporations to cheat us, etc.
Can’t win, won’t be popular, not trying, they quash popular reformists that is their raison de etre. They refuse to address root causes of problems, ie the rich stealing our lunch.
Democrats have been moving to the right with their program like someone paid them to chase republicans on that stage
I get it’s upsetting but there are just objectively way more republicans than there are leftists in the US. So there is logic here.
Also, vote switchers count for double. So there would actually need to be twice as many possible voters on the left for it to be as appealing as the right.
As always the proper solution is to alter the conditions that incentivize this behavior.
Yet time and time again, polling shows that Americans prefer leftist policies when presented with them independently of party affiliation. As well as younger generations trending further left.
Right, but they aren’t presented them independently of party affiliation. They’re told “those scary communists have good policies but they want to destroy America!” And most people believe that.
So, wait, if the policies are popular, but the party affiliation isn’t, how the fuck is the go-to strategy to keep the party but give up on the policies instead of the other way around?
Because team sports. And propaganda
Right, but they aren’t presented them independently of party affiliation.
The last candidate who ran on leftist policies was Biden. He won. Of course, he was lying his wrinkly ass off when he did, but he won running on leftist policies.
time and time again, polling shows that Americans prefer leftist policies when presented with them independently of party affiliation
So where are all the leftist voters then?
Right on the table where democrats keep leaving them.
I said voters, if those people aren’t voting, then they aren’t leftist voters.
I think you might be working with a different definition of ‘left’
Leftist people voting for the best of limited options are still leftist voters.
Are they though? How about this, can you still call yourself anti-genocide if you vote for the candidate who puts forth a slower, more well marketted genocide where the same bullets in children and attacks still happen, just with a lot of stern faces and some hand wringing?
So are people who agree with leftist policies but not with right-wing liberal democrats.
Careful now, purity tests abound.
Only just after the election and before the election, during election only the right wingers get elected.
Winning a lot of elections that way?
A progressive just won in Fort Worth. In a special election. You know, those things that usually only draw fox-addled octogenarians to the polls.
The “progressives can’t win so we have to make sure to hamstring them all the time” shit is just another centrist lie.
Yeah Mamdani just won and is a perfect example of a partial solution to what I’m talking about. But since you didn’t ask about my solutions that probably won’t make sense. I’m happy to explain if you actually want to discuss.
But don’t let me rain on your hate parade.
NYC isn’t the federal government.
I get it’s upsetting but there are just objectively way more republicans than there are leftists in the US.
I get that you don’t want to hear this because it gets in the way of moving to the right, but republicans won’t vote for republican lite when they have full fat fascist.
All you’re doing is capitulating for no reason. Well, except that you want to.
There are not more republicans. What there are are checked out non voters and a “left” that had so much splintered infighting no one really knows what the left is.
There is also a swath of single issue voters who vote on guns. They actually would flip in a heartbeat with a liberal gun owner platform. It’s not a new phenomenon.
You’re just arguing semantics. If people consistently vote republican then they are republicans right now. That they might switch for the right candidate isn’t really relevant.
But yeah gun stuff is an example of a position someone could use to appeal to fence sitters. It will absolutely piss off a portion of the Democratic base though.
No matter how many positions you abandon or how many minorities you betray, republicans will vote for republicans.
We need nationwide Ranked Choice Voting because I agree that many Democrats are far from perfect and, in an ideal world, I would love to vote for a third party or independent candidate, the reality is that; unless you happen to live in a state with Ranked Choice Voting (Maine, for example) you might indirectly be helping a Republican win. As imperfect as many Democrats are, they are usually far better and usually more sane than the Republicans.
They support genocide. That’s not “imperfect,” it’s reprehensible.
Pretty sure everyone supports genocide at this point. The only difference being who is the genocider and who is the genocidee.
It’s almost as if they are aware of the actual demographics, and pander accordingly.
There are no real leftists in the US, so I’m not sure why people are still so confused when the DNC doesn’t pander to them.
Especially since they already don’t fucking vote.
Republicans vote, so the party bends over backwards to represent you.
That’s how Trump treats his MAGA base.
That’s how ALL political parties treat their base. “What, you gonna vote for the OTHER guy?”
