• Sunkblake@lemmy.world
    39·
    2 months ago

    How good is this counterfeit cheese if you have to invest cheese DRM?

    At what point does it stop being a counterfeit cheese and became a real cheese made somewhere outside the origin protection?

    • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
      11·
      2 months ago

      I assume it’s like the whole Champagne only comes from Champagne. Are their other sparkling wines that taste as good, I’m sure. But they want to sell a name.

      Kentucky tried to do the same with Bourbon Whiskey, saying if it was made outside of Kentucky you’d have to call it something else, but I don’t believe that stuck

      • Knightfox@lemmy.world
        10·
        2 months ago

        You are correct, it did not stick, but by US law Bourbon does have to be made in the US. Associating alcohols to a region has always been a tedious argument, but distilled alcohol is especially silly. For things like Champagne they can claim things like the soil of the area impacts the flavor (Vidalia onions), the culture of specific grapes in the region are important (this isolated variety of grapes are only cultivated here), or maybe something in the air contributes to the process (Belgian sours), but Bourbon just requires it be made with at least 51% corn and stored in a charred oak barrel.

        Bourbon may have originated from Kentucky there is nothing about Kentucky or the US that impacts the process. I can make IPAs without being in the UK and I can make Berliner Weisse without going to Germany, I see no difference with Bourbon.

        • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
          4·
          2 months ago

          I agree, I’m going to mention something I’ve mentioned before though because I love it as a base for why one world one human should be prevent. (BS I just made up now). When France and Italy got hit hard by root rot, trade ended up happening with the U.S. as in people found roots in California and elsewhere did not suffer the same rot, so they grafted the grapes onto roots from the americas to ensure all of Italy/Frances vineyards didn’t die, in the trading it also led to California finding access to many of the grapes that were used in Europe, thus making it a very good grower of modern day wines. It’s how the world should work on my opinion, not about the profit side, but about the survival side and helping each other overcome devastating events that could change areas forever

    • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
      6·
      2 months ago

      It’s more a self-defense measure - while there are perfectly good counterfeit cheeses out there, if someone gets a really crappy piece or there’s food poisoning traced back to a counterfeit cheese this lets them prove it wasn’t their fault, thus avoiding a hit to the brand reputation and/or avoid liability.

      Not exactly a great solution imho, but it does make sense from a certain perspective. AFAIK they’re sticking the chips in the wax/rind not the cheese itself, which does improve things slightly.

      • Techlos@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        2·
        2 months ago

        Scammer reads p-chip patent, realises there’s only a small range of laser diode wavelengths that can penetrate cheese. Buys chipped cheese, breaks the cheese. Chipped pieces found using laser excitation pulse and sensor with a notch filter. Save the wedge with the most chips to repeatedly break down to get chipped cheese crumbs, insert into bogus wedges, profit.

        I’m sure the idea can be refined, but I’ll leave the fine details to the dairy delinquent curd counterfeiters.

        • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
          4·
          2 months ago

          To embed the p-Chip in a Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese wheel, the chip is inserted into a casein label on the cheese wheel, which becomes part of the cheese rind during its preparation process. Cheese buyers aren’t going to eat this embedded label.

          They’re not liberally sprinkling the cheese with microchips that can be picked out, they’re sticking single chips on full wheels.

          • Techlos@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            1·
            2 months ago

            Fair enough, read the tech stack more than the implementation. It makes me wonder why not RFID or NFC instead? The only substantial difference would be antenna size and visibility, my only hinch is that it’d be an appearance thing

            • Warl0k3@lemmy.world
              1·
              2 months ago

              I’m guessing it’s down to food regulations - I don’t think there are edible NFC implementations available (I suspect it’s down to the power requirements, as far as I can tell the reason they use light stimulation for power transfer instead of the normal inductive method is so that you don’t need the large receiving antenna, which probably makes it more “edible”?), even though it’s clearly the superior option.

    • brownsugga@lemmy.world
      5·
      2 months ago

      if it’s cheese, it’s real, lol- like “fake boobs are real enough, if i can touch them they’re real” but the whole point of DOC or whatever regional protections Europe puts in place I think are about supporting the economies of the region as much as guaranteeing authenticity… the microchips make sense in that context… if someone can fake a wheel of parmesan and disrupt the supply, it will affect demand for the legitimate product and take a customer away from the region the DOC/DOP was meant to protect in the first place. Or just ignore me, honestly I don’t have a dog in this race and I’m not even 100% sure I’m right

      • Sunkblake@lemmy.world
        3·
        2 months ago

        Fair point, i have a bottle of 25 year old aceto balsamico in the kitchen with a DOP on it and I probably wouldn’t buy one without it.

        But at what point does a counterfet become just as good?

        • Korhaka@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          4·
          2 months ago

          In this case its literally just the geographical location of the factory that made it. I usually get the Aldi version of things where they just change the name slightly but it is otherwise the same thing.

          Shame my local Aldi stopped selling grilling cheese as an alternative to halloumi though, its quite a lot cheaper and avoids having to transport food across Europe unnecessarily. If I wanted high quality I wouldn’t go for genuine halloumi either, there is a somewhat local farm that sells their own halloumi style cheese which legally isn’t halloumi but tastes way better than anything supermarkets sell that can legally be called halloumi.

  • hector@lemmy.today
    36·
    2 months ago

    This made my contempt for the microchip conspiracists curdle.

    I imagine organized crime would probably be big into counterfeiting like that. It’s less risky than drugs, doesn’t bring as much heat. I know there have been more than one exposure of olive oil fuckery, mixing lower grade and other oils in. So counterfeiting fancy cured meats and cheeses would make a lot of sense. The Albanians, Calabrians, Sicilians, Sardinians, and whomever else, it sounds right up their alley.

    I know in the US liquor counterfeiting has long been a thing, mixing in rotgut booze into fancy bottles. Done by organized crime. People have this romanticized vision of organized crime because all of the movies. But truth be told, they are pieces of fucking shit. They are parasites, they make things cost more and work less well. You pay more for less, and people get hurt, so those that add no value can make money. With the exception of course of bootlegging around bans on substances, in which case they do provide a valuable service.

    • evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world
      38·
      2 months ago

      The problem with parm is that “fake parm” can just be literally the exact same product, but just made outside the borders of the legally defined region, or even made within the region with the same methods, but not under the control of “big cheese”. It can still be a high quality product.

      Counterfeit honey is a big problem. Honey is mostly glucose and fructose, which you can just buy. You can detect a lack of the pollen you’d expect in real honey, but that only makes it so that you can thin out real stuff. There’s other methods to detect it, but it’s on ongoing arms race. Buy honey from local beekeepers you trust, if you can. P.s., there idea that local honey helps with allergies is bunk because allergies are typically caused by windborne pollen, which bees dont collect.

      Maple syrup has similar issues.

      Seafood and truffles are commonly “fake”, as in substituted with cheaper stuff.

      Not “counterfeit”, but a similar problem in Mexico is that the cartels have gotten into the avocado industry.

      • floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        9·
        2 months ago

        You just aren’t allowed to call it literally “Parmigiano Reggiano”, no one is stopping you from making it. “Reggiano” means “(of/from) Reggio (Emilia, a city)”, I don’t see why it’s a problem to forbid calling it that if it’s not made there-ish.

        “Grana” is the generic name for that kind of cheese. Its use is not protected

        • evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world
          2·
          2 months ago

          I’m not making a moral statement on the rules. I was just pointing it out.

          Also I believe “Parmigiano Reggiano” is a trademark name (i.e., protected) in the US and other non-EU countries, but other versions of the name, like “parmesan” are not. In the EU, you cannot call cheese “parmesan” unless it’s parmigiano reggiano.

          Despite the fact that grana padano is widely available in the US, the style is still just referred to as “parmesan” even if it’s the notorious green cannister of pregrated “cheese”.

      • hector@lemmy.today
        8·
        2 months ago

        I make maple syrup, and much of it has wildly different taste, the only ingredient is maple sap, but it doesn’t all taste like the syrup in stores. I’m afraid when selling it I will be accused of faking it too, even though other producers will tell you that as well.

        I do know someone that bought a gallon at a farmer’s market that turned out to be some nasty corn syrup abomination, guy disappeared. As to fake honey, honey has a particular taste, as does maple syrup, even the stuff that’s different, it’s more than just sugar, just as you can’t well fake fruit juice with sugar water. Mapoline is easily identifiable, I suspect honey would be the same, but I think your cases is probably more them mixing real honey with syrups and the like?

        Because artificial flavors, known as natural flavors to the US government, (as they were naturally made in a lab from chemicals, after all isn’t everything part of god’s plan?) are a poor substitute for real ones, in my experience. Artificial strawberry, blueberry, Vanilla, mapoline, and so forth are all easily identifiable, and abominations to anyone used to the real thing.

        • evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world
          2·
          2 months ago

          From what I understand, they dont try to build syrup from scratch, it’s more that they cut the real thing with sugar and water. According to wikipedia, maple syrup is basically 2/3rds sugar and 1/3rd water, with about 1% “other”.

          If you added the right proportion of sugar and water to real stuff in a 50:50 ratio, I’d have a really hard time distinguishing that from the natural variation in taste strength.

          Luckily I have a steady supply from people I trust. I can’t get enough of the stuff made over a wood fire.

          • hector@lemmy.today
            1·
            2 months ago

            I make maple wine from it too, especially off tasting syrup, and also from the washings of it, when I bottle it all the goop on the sides of the containers, I wash it all into a mix and throw yeast and nutrient in there, sometimes spruce or white pine needles, yarrow, blackberry roosts, burdock root. None of which are that great, the spruce and white pine are ok. Nettle was good too, and a substitute for nutrient.

            But that is really interesting in the types of tastes you can get from it, it’s very complex, but depending on the yeast, and if wild yeasts get in there. Then the vinegar mother gets in there if you aren’t careful, I’ve so much vinegar, way more than I can use I’m pickling entire 5 gallon buckets of vegetables with it.

              • hector@lemmy.today
                2·
                2 months ago

                No, the word looks familiar but I never caught what it is. I really want to get bees but can’t afford it.

                • evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  2 months ago

                  “Acer” is the genus name for maples.

                  The way most beekeepers make money is not selling honey (or wax). The biggest money makers are actually selling bees (in a package, nucleus hive, or full hive), or selling queens (genetics of a queen dictate the temperament of the hive). This is not including the huge commercial beekeepers who make their money off of pollination contracts.

                  This means that beekeepers are incentivized to get new people into the hobby, so beekeeping is very apprenticeship focused. Local clubs can put you in contact with someone while will be happy to show you the ropes (and give you a bunch of honey in exchange for the help).

                  To get started learning, all you really need is a veil and gloves (about $50 new total), but you may be able to get used gear for way cheaper. When you start doing hive inspections on your own, you’ll need a hive tool, smoker, and probably a bee brush (also about $50 total new).

                  If you want to get your own hives, the major costs are the bees themselves (which are way cheaper to buy through a club, like ~$100 last time i checked), and the boxes themselves, which can run a couple hundred for a hive. If you live somewhere with bears and/or skunks, you’ll want an electric fence, too. Usually, it’s better to have 2 hives, too, because if a hive dies in the winter, you can split the other hive and you are barely worse off.

                  If you are handy and have the tools, you can build your own hives to save money. Also, you can capture wild bee swarms by leaving swarm traps around during the right time of the year.

                  Lastly, there is specialized gear for harvesting honey, but usually you borrow it from a club.

                  Tl;dr, you can go all in to start by yourself for like $700, but you can get started as an apprentice for like $50 (or honestly just borrowing gear for free).

      • Tar_Alcaran@sh.itjust.works
        1·
        2 months ago

        Counterfeit honey is a big problem

        Why is it a problem? If you literally can’t tell the difference, what is the problem?

        If the fake product is literally indistinguishable, I don’t think it’s actually fake. It’s the same product.

        Like “fake” diamonds, which are actually literally better in every way.

        • ageedizzle@piefed.caEnglish
          6·
          2 months ago

          ‘Fake’ diamonds are not really fake, just synthetic, since they are chemically indistinguishable from real diamonds. Many (but not all) fake foods are not like this, since they have different core ingredients

          • Tar_Alcaran@sh.itjust.works
            1·
            2 months ago

            Right, but in the case of honey, its (according to OP) not a different set of ingredients.

            Similarly, parmezan cheese made outside the region can be literally the same, chemically exactly the same, but still fake, because of its origin. Just like diamonds.

            If you make honey in a machine, and you can’t tell the difference, is it not honey?

            • ageedizzle@piefed.caEnglish
              2·
              2 months ago

              If it’s chemically indistinguishable from honey then I’d say yes it’s real honey. It might be preferable to real honey for the same reason lab grown meat is preferable to real meat.

        • evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world
          1·
          2 months ago

          Ignoring the fact that selling something fraudulently is automatically bad, I can think of a few reasons. First of all, they can’t make it identical. They can beat certain tests, but that’s why it’s a cat and mouse game.

          Second, even if it was 100% identical, there are still reasons to support the “real” thing. If I buy fake syrup, I’m probably getting something made from an industrial monocrop like sugar beets or corn grown far away. If I buy honey from a local beekeeper, I’m investing in more trees/flowers/etc. in my own area. I’m also investing against the widespread use of pesticides harming our whole ecosystem.

    • Bluegrass_Addict@lemmy.ca
      3·
      2 months ago

      They are parasites, they make things cost more and work less well. You pay more for less, and people get hurt, so those that add no value can make money.

      sounds like corporations who are also just making the products… not even talking about the bootlegged shit but the actual legit products. we pay more, for less… they hurt/kill people, these companies don’t add value to the world anymore. they are forcing costs to go up, while making the products also fail more so they work less well. Corporations are parasites

  • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml
    14·
    2 months ago

    They’re making the microsplastics worse. This is gonna end up in marine ecosystems. Idk how well sewage treatment can isolate this.

  • teft@piefed.socialEnglish
    12·
    2 months ago

    I don’t care if Big Parm tracks me. As long as they don’t stop making parmigiano reggiano they can do whatever they like to me.

  • hitstun@feddit.onlineEnglish
    9·
    2 months ago

    OK, but how does this even work? Is it a tiny NFC tag or something? Does your body digest it, or does it just pass through you because it’s really small, like a single microplastic?