- cross-posted to:
- peoplebluesky@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- peoplebluesky@lemmy.world
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Personally, I think the MAGA conspiracy theorists were deliberately engineered by the elite to create anti-LGBTQ+ theories. By projecting a myriad of false conspiracy theories, it helps discredit the actual conspiracy.
Jeffrey Epstein suggested that Moot add /pol/ to 4chan. /pol/ is literally where Qanon started. All of the “Wayfair is selling children” and “there is a video of Hillary Clinton killing a child for their ‘adenochrome’” conspiracies started there.
/pol/ is also where the “MAPS/minor attracted person” bullshit started, as an attempt to discredit LGBT people.
Are you sure? Seems like /pol/ was planned before they met. I’d be happy to be proven wrong though.
He started it the day after they met. Behind the Bastards just did a series on it.
Sure, and that’s clear from the emails. That said, I heard from someone familiar with the situation, that it was well known to (some) site members that they were going to add it for some time before that.
The timing is a going indication of causation, but it’s no proof, especially when there’s a plausible alternative.
No hate to regular everyday Jewish people much respect but Israel and the Zionists are a real problem and threat to the world.
Yes. Sadly. I feel genuinely bad for Jewish people. Zionist’s are like the Taliban or West Borough Baptist Church. Same flavor of extremist.
Worse because they’ve infiltrated our government’s.
More international, yes. Which makes them very concerning.
But yeah I do feel bad for regular hard working Jewish people because they keep claiming they represent all Jewish people. People are getting more and more angry and the gaslighting isn’t working anymore but I’m continually shocked how many people don’t understand that Epstein and Ghisline worked for Mossad. They absolutely gave Russia a back channel to the US and Israel but the entire operation was for Mossad and Israel’s benefit
The files show extensive ties to Israeli, Saudi Arabi, and UAE elites as well. It’s as straight-cut on class boundries as possible
Also? The “we’re mad about pedophiles” conspiracy crowd don’t get credit when they decided to put Absolute Biggest Sex Crime Guy in charge of their movement and stay onboard when he says “I’m not releasing the evidence”.
This is what I hate about the “broken clock is right twice a day” thing. The process you use to get to a conclusion needs to be sound for it to matter. If you have a couple thousand stopped clocks showing different times, you can’t claim to always know the correct time just because it’s in there somewhere.
Sure, atrazine causes birth defects in frogs. If you tell me that frogs are being intentionally turned gay because the globalists are using them to test a chemical weapon that will be used to turn people gay so that they’ll stop reproducing as part of a global depopulation plan, then you support a president who relaxes regulations on chemical disposal including atrazine, you don’t get to wait for most people to forget all that context and claim your initial kernel of partial-truth as a victory. This is exactly the same thing, and we see it over and over and over and over.
Also, some conspiracies are always going to be right, but the details matter.
“There’s a cabal of rich people who run the world!” I mean, yes. Obviously. But, the method matters here.
“Rich people make blood sacrifices in cult meetings, then replace the president with an android and the prime minister with a clone” is not the same as “rich people buy up newspapers and throw lavish fundraising dinners.”
As for the main conspiracy, IMO it’s not credible that everybody in Epstein’s circle was a pedophile. It’s not even credible that everyone in his circle knew he was one. I’m sure you don’t become a billionaire without already being the kind of person who has a problem with empathy. But, Epstein’s circle wasn’t just billionaires. It was also intellectuals, politicians, artists, etc. Even if 99% of them were either pedophiles or perfectly OK with pedophilia (which seems unlikely) that remaining 1% could ruin his life.
What’s believable is that he had an enormous circle of rich and powerful people, and that a small subset of them were in an inner circle where the child rape happened. In that case, it isn’t that every rich and powerful person is part of a pedophile ring. It’s that rich and powerful people were meeting and conspiring, and also some of them were pedophiles.
Having said that, I’m perfectly happy if the popular story is that everybody who was buddies with Epstein is a pedophile and should be removed from society, if not removed from the realm of the living. Those people deserve that kind of punishment, but not because they’re pedophiles. But, it’s too exhausting to try to convince people that someone like Bill Gates deserves to have his life ruined, even if he isn’t a pedophile.
It’s worth reminding that the 4chan founder is in the Epstein files discussing the launch of conspiracy theories to manipulate the masses.
Right after the discussion, the 4chan “political” channel is created, filled with conspiracy theories, and will lead to QAnon.
The pizzagate was a most likely a planned diversion.
My mother in law guessed the sex of my baby, twice. She guess both girl and boy. Then when the baby pictures arrived, she was really smug: “See, I told you! I have a feeling about these things!”.
That’s when I knew to never listen to another word she says.
She’s playing both sides to come out on top, it’s clever!
Not when it’s blatantly obvious.
It’s a 1 in 4 chance of guessing both right. With odds like those, she should be playing the lottery.
We do need to talk about Epsteins very real ties to Israel though, too and the fact Isreal is engaging in very serious and very real human rights violations.
Isreal is very much so at the heart and we can’t forget that either but as a result I DO feel bad for normal Jewish people who will be pushed into insane conspiracy theories and they did nothing wrong.
Reference on Epsteins Isreal ties: https://youtu.be/j1AoPlJgEBQ
While we’re at it, it’s probably also worth mentioning that the Zionist entity’s ties to pedophilia go way beyond just Epstein.
But then, what else would you expect from a fake country whose soldiers rioted for the right to rape their prisoners?
Lumping every single conspiracy theorist together as if they had a unified belief system is silly.
Follow the bread crumb trail on a lot of these assholes and they all run through the same set of alt-right media intent on radicalizing people into hating one another and eventually killing them.
Whether its the “Haitians ate my dog” hoax or the “Hamas is running Columbia’s student unions” canard or the “Comet Ping Pong is a hide out for ritual child cannibalism”, the goal is to turn people against one another and justify violence against them through the police.
The apex of the modern conspiracy theory is the lie about Evil Immigrants Sneaking Across The Border to Do Crime. And the consequence of believing it is a bipartisan government support for ICE kidnappings and concentration camps.
There have been plenty of conspiracy theories that have been proven true. MK Ultra, Big Tobacco, Big Sugar. The entirety of the CIA’s history has basically been the story of insane conspiracy theories proven correct.
There is evidence that Epstein and his associates used food- themed code language, including “pizza”, to refer to child rape. A lot of the antisemitic conspiracy theories about Jews have turned out to be accurate reports on Zionists, who have been purposefully trying to conflate themselves with Judaism to hide under the umbrella of semitic protections.
The famous “they’re turning the frogs gay!” story Alex Jones made famous was actually a true story about how a factory on the West Coast was illegally dumping dangerous chemicals into the water which impacts the hormones, and this the sex ratio, of frogs nearby.
Afaik there isn’t any sort of official body governing conspiracy theories. It’s hundreds of thousands of individuals trying to make sense of a world in imperfect information. They all need to be judged individually. A lot of them are just plain bigoted or mentally ill in other ways. Some people are kind of close to being right, some people are dead on. It’s foolish to try to lump them all together.
And what’s the point of trying to dismiss all conspiracy theorists as racist lunatics? Is the end goal to get people to stop questioning official government narratives? Fuck that.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Alex Jones was paid to do that gay frogs segment specifically to discredit the story and try to protect the offending company.
MK Ultra, Big Tobacco, Big Sugar.
These aren’t conspiracy theories. They’re well documented, exhaustively researched, and heavily reported upon programs and organizations.
The conspiracy theories came about as attempts to cover up the above. The Helter Skelter motivation, which then bled into increasingly lured claims about rock music being mind control and a race war prophecy were the conspiracy theories. These claims helped cover up MK Ultra as a project and deflected state effects at manipulating civilians onto mass media and The Culture War.
Similarly, it wasn’t “Big Tobacco” that was the conspiracy, but the repeated denial-ism funded by tobacco corporations which sought to conflate restrictions on smoking with some kind of police state pogrom on the working class. The same game got played with asbestos and lead paint and motorcycle helmets and seat belts. Wave after wave of reactionary media funded by libertarian-aligned business interests tried to blame the victim or mystify the source of harm.
“Big Sugar” is a complete misnomer, as the shift to corn syrup over sugar was in direct response to the Cuban Revolution and the sudden shortfall in sugar supplies following the US embargo. That, again, wasn’t any kind of conspiracy. But the increasingly aggressive sales tactics of soft drink salespeople certainly created misconceptions about their benefits and hazards.
And what’s the point of trying to dismiss all conspiracy theorists as racist lunatics?
Yes, why would anyone conflate eugenics, phrenology, and other pseudo-scientific claims of racial superiority, or the increasingly apocalyptic predictions of social collapse coming from segregationists and their business allies, might feed into conspiracy media.
“Not all conspiracy theorists”
no true scotsman, sure. but the line in the sand was drawn to point out specific problematic theorists. the ones claiming that we are all plugged in the matrix can continue with out being talked about here
The CT’s were as they always were.
Right about some things. Wrong about others. The FBI publicizing footage that shouldn’t exist in order to make themselves look good in the Guthrie case, however, should be making everyone reconsider how they use and store their electronics.
That footage came from a cloud connected camera; google’s cloud.
There is no conspiracy there. If you use a Google device, they are storing all of that data even if they will not give you access to it without a court order.
The FBI is run my bumbling idiots. The delay is because they didn’t know how to ask properly.
By the time that Q thing got started, the Miami Herald had long been publishing details of Epstein, so all they did was take the villains and project their behavior onto the opponents of rw extremism, figuring it would never catch up to them.
So no, they don’t deserve any credit. They just misdirected the villainy. That’s negative credit.
With the files related to 4chan you can assume that misdirection was calculated
Yes that is the end goal. It’s why there has been no discussion of the fact that Trump stole the 2024 election. The previous crybaby conspiracy fuckery immunized the public discourse to prevent any contemplation of stolen elections.
That’s a super dumb take.
Just because something is wrong, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a valuable contribution on our journey to a truth.
The general accusation to conspiracy theorists is that it’s all wrong and all super ridiculously obviously wrong, like flat earth. A “medium severe” conspiracy theory like “it’s rich people who are kidnapping and raping kids” barely gets attention.
It’s also making the mistake of treating “conspiracy theorists” as a monolith, which they’re not.
Finally:
Until something is officially declared a crime and a legal accusation is made, people are officially, legally innocent. Which means everyone saying “Epstein didn’t kill himself” or “Donald Trump is involved in a child trafficking operation”, is a conspiracy theorist.
Which probably means you too.
What it comes down to is this: the next time you hear something ridiculous, but evil about the government, do you dismiss it, or do you research it? Because we know who will tell you to “move along” and there is “nothing to see”.
Conspiracy theories are generally very big, very serious accusations being made confidently without serious evidence.
The prevalence of conspiracy theories does indeed make it harder for people who want to stay grounded in reality to accept criticism of the powerful – this is one of the harms of conspiracy theories. It makes it harder for genuine serious criticism to be taken seriously – this is why the Putin regime allows conspiracy theorists, but persecutes serious regime critics.
It’s also making the mistake of treating “conspiracy theorists” as a monolith, which they’re not.
It pretty much was. The qanon nonsense functioned as an umbrella conspiracy theory, which pretty much coopted all other conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists.
as a monolith, which they’re not.
It pretty much was
You think everyone who has a crazy theory is all part of one big world wide organization?
Do they hold meetings?
My conspiracy theory is the conspiracy theorists international organisation’s annual meeting
If you can see what a cult/psyop can do to influence people’s beliefs (Q), certainly you can then see that a lot of conspiracy spaces are manipulated by bots and other people in bad faith doing the same thing.
Not every conspiracy theorist forms beliefs - they could merely be hypothesizing/speculating. Not every conspiracy theorist believes in everything posted in these spaces, and not every conspiracy theorist follows Q and other cults like it.
Until something is officially declared a crime and a legal accusation is made, people are officially, legally innocent. Which means everyone saying “Epstein didn’t kill himself” or “Donald Trump is involved in a child trafficking operation”, is a conspiracy theorist.
What? No just because something is not yet verified by court does not mean that you are a conspiracy theoriest for believing it. If there is sufficent evidence it is okay to believe in something. There is sufficent evidence Trump is involved in the whole thing. Epstein didn’t kill himself is a bit more tricky because there are different theories, he got killed is not all impropable especially with how the whole thing was handled so for me it hardly qualifies as a conspiracy theory in the collequial sense. He fleed, there was a body double and he now lives carefree somewhere? Not impossible but currently not enough evidence so i would declare it a conspiracy theory.
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Spewing falsehoods, inciting hate against groups of people and clinging to a story that has been disproven for years is no worthwhile contribution. They have not contributed anything to either revealing the wrongdoing or solving anything about the case. If anything they have voted into power the most active suppressant to either of those two and it does not seem too far fetched that this is a closed feedback loop, i.e. the original “Q” falsehoods came from that very circle that is now both accused and in power or blackmailing those in power.
What it comes down to is this: the next time you hear something ridiculous, but evil about the government, do you dismiss it, or do you research it?
This is probably your best point. The more of these unhinged and wrong theories there are, the less likely I’m going to have a grain of belief the next time I’m going to hear something like it. It only hurts the truth. Nothing else.
If anything they have voted into power the most active suppressant to either of those two and it does not seem too far fetched that this is a closed feedback loop, i.e. the original “Q” falsehoods came from that very circle that is now both accused and in power or blackmailing those in power.
the establishment dems were more than willing to let all this stay hidden, under 2 terms of obama and 1 with biden. giving maxwell and epstein cushy pleadeals in return for not turning on anyonw else. so clearly voting in trump a 2nd time was the right move, far as actually bringing this stuff to light.
Until something is officially declared a crime and a legal accusation is made, people are officially, legally innocent. Which means everyone saying “Epstein didn’t kill himself” or “Donald Trump is involved in a child trafficking operation”, is a conspiracy theorist.
Courts determine criminal liability withing the justice system. They do not determine truth itself. When properly designed and used, the legal system should trend towards truth, but actual truth is a separate thing entirely. The unifying aspect of conspiracy theorists is completely naive epistemology. You guys are actually doing epistemology but you just refuse to actually look at the thousands of years of work that’s been done in the field across civilizations all over the world.
There were 100% conspiracy theorists who said it were powerful/rich white people. Why do you think stuff like X-Files was so popular in the 90s. People suspected clubs like that trying to rig everything.
Yes, some of them said it would be the jews or whatever, but that’s only a part of the many, wild speculations and could have been racism.
But you don’t owe any of them an apology, because they knew it was hard to prove and just theories/suspicions at this point.
You are lumping in every conspiracy theorist in with the Q people here.
well, the OP says “conspiracy theorists” in the image and the title. i didn’t assume it was just about Qs, but could be they meant just them and were intenionally or unintentionally confusing.
They always like to lump all conspiracies together and discount the lot of them by associating them all with the crazy ones. JFK case and point, dumbass theories are used to discount all the real conspiracies that the fbi and cia and other elements of the establishment were heavily involved in the assassination and it’s cover up.
No, they’re not.
Conspiracies abound and are proven right with regularity
They are also proven wrong with regularity.
There are thousands of conspiracies around the world at any one time. Some conspiracy theorists are wrong, and some are right.
To declare otherwise is stupid, read a book you fucking moron
Isn’t “Epstein” a jewish surname?
I’m not sure, but his ethnic lineage isn’t connected to why he’s evil any more than European lineage is why wealthy white Americans are evil.
But, just like European heritage is perverted into white supremacy, he perverted his heritage (real or imagined, idk) into Jewish supremacy. This was demonstrated by the emails suggesting that the more Jewish someone is, the smarter they are, which is presumably why they had DNA tests on the island. (Which is also a bit odd because Zionists are generally very much anti-DNA testing. But maybe he was more into the basic supremacy aspect than the actual Zionist dogma.)
The conspiracy invents stupid theories to discredit the real ones duh.
i call this the Ur-Conspiracy
Wasn’t Epstein a Mossad asset? So Jews were involved.
yes, there’s a heavy connection between the zionists that run israel. whose interest happen to align heavily with the christo-facists and general rich bastards of the USA (who largely just want israel to act as a destabilizer for the ME, so they don’t unify into another great power).
the interesting bit is Israel really doesn’t have that much loyalty to the USA, as evidenced by pretty nuch any presser they do in hebrew (because most of their US-based zionists/supporters only speak english).
