…Run by Paedophiles helping others to steal land
wut u mean the whole middle east was promised to them 3000 years ago
Not to minimize the harms that indigenous Americans have endured, which were obviously horrific & wrong, but all land is stolen.
Who did the Māori steal land from?
I’m talking about modern times. Owned land is stolen land.
I don’t know enough about Māori to say much about their land management practices prior to colonization. But I know Māori have nobility so it’s entirely possible and perhaps likely that it was stolen from other Māori.
Good point. I think “all land is stolen land” is a good framework. As long as it doesn’t minimise colonisation obviously.
So after the British settled, some Māori went to a small island far to the east?
Doesn’t change the fact that they were the first people to arrive in NZ. Which was what I was getting at, but I will concede they did invade someone else’s land too.
…Kiwi birds? 🤷
Who did the Aboriginal steal from? Or the Jomon? Or Papuans? There are plenty of cultures that have inhabited land from the first time modern humans occupied said land.
No one still has yet to steal the Sentinelese’s island.
No it is not. That is a uninformed relativisation that serves no other purpose than to deflect from the issue.
Yep, it’s akin to a “all property is theft” take on things.
I bought my shoes, i didn’t steal them. I bought the cheese in my fridge, I didn’t steal it Hell, I even bought the fridge.And, yes, I bought my house and garden. No stealing involved… unfortunately. Because it was fucking expensive, but, alas, I was not allowed to steal it.
Someone may have ‘stole’ it by staking a claim to it a few hundred or possibly over a thousand years ago, but my hands and conscience are clean (about the land, at least).
No it isn’t.
Or are you one of these people who just have to maximise everything like existing is rape and so on, watering it out so much we can forget about the USA (because all labor is slavery and all land is stolen, so why bother with them?)
We are one of many guests on starship earth but we think it’s ours alone.
sounds like a good foundation to build a country of cunts
True, to make things right US should give their stolen land back to the ethnicities that are connected to it via blood magic! Blood and soil, the solution is to create more Israels!!
Indigenous people as a general rule are very open for people willing to integrate, which includes Palestinians who welcomed the first Jewish immigrants until they began building a nation state
I’m talking in the context of land back movements, as in “stolen land should be given back to make things fair” (i.e. the most wide-spread user of stolen land narratives, whose goal is the creation of many ethnostates), and not about if indigenous people are genetically pro-immigration or whatever.
So you think Land Back means genocide the settlers? What I said also applies to Land Back movements. They are willing to live side by side with former oppressors under the condition that they stop the oppression. It’s not blood and soil. Far from it.
It’s not “genocide the settlers”, but give them national determination on ethnic grounds aka ethnonationalism, which doesn’t liberate shit other than the national bourgeois of the indigenous groups - for indigenous workers, all it’d change is the color of the gallows, it’s wage labor and oppression all the way for them. Text on left-wing nationalism if interested
Besides, don’t you think this type of nationalism would inherently breed ethnic hatred, since they’re breaking free from oppression on racial rather than class-based grounds? Ask a Serb what they think of the Turkish!
It’s also literally blood and soil hitlerite narrative, as “stolen land” presupposes that land is somehow inherently private property of ethnic groups (private property is invention of class societies) rather than it materially not belonging to anyone.
“Stolen land” narrative isn’t about freedom, it’s a nationalistic delusion that would only breed division.
You can critically support left wing nationalism. The Algerian liberation movement was a nationalist effort that resulted in Algeria no longer being a colony of France. Of course, Algeria is not a communist utopia, they are still ruled by their bourgeoise, but the lives of average Algerians are indubitably better now than when it was a colony, just as lives of poor Native Americans would be better if they also were not ruled by the settler colonialists who are still doing genocide to them.
I still don’t get your jump from “stolen land” to “national liberation”. Left nationalisms don’t use the Land Back rhetoric, neither do Land Back activists necessarily talk about national liberation. Land Back is about stewardship of land, not about a Native American nation state. And while I would prefer a No State solution for South West Asia (or the whole world), this doesn’t stop me from rallying with people who demand a binational One State solution.
There is more than one battle to fight and while I respect that people pick one battle, we need solidarity and synergy between them. I see a lot of harm in your class reductionist approach. Everything that goes against the most privileged of the oppressed groups divides the working class. No, being against imperialism doesn’t make me a nationalist.
And I still don’t get why you brought up Israel. What is your idea? Would it benefit the Palestinians if they focused more on the white working class of the global north?
“stolen land” presupposes that land is somehow inherently private property of ethnic groups
No because there are other ways of ownership and other ways of relating to land that private property.
Not to detract from your point, but I seem to recall the native americans being enslaved in the US.
The very first transatlantic slaver (literally) was Columbus except that he was running slaves in the opposite direction. Also, unlike most of the later transatlantic slavers, he was imprisoned for it.
However, the enslavement of indigenous peoples in the Americas was never as big as the African slavery thing, because indigenous peoples tended to die quickly or run away (certainly not for ethical or moral reasons).
