One of the most annoying things about the Israel and/or Palestine is the sheer amount of misinformation and delusion that gets pumped into the discourse.

The objective reality is that Israel is nowhere near collapse, in fact it’s one of the most stable countries in the middle east. There aren’t really any signs anywhere that indicate collapse at any point in the near future. Israelis still have high trust in their institutions, their government is stable, they don’t have severe income inequality, they isn’t informational disorder, there isn’t a breakdown of social cohesion, there are no significant changes in the environment, and there’s no rapid increase or decline in the population… so I’m not sure where you’re getting this idea from.

Your opinion seems to stem from the belief that Iran is actually doing significant damage to Israel, but are they? As far as I can see, there has only been 3 instances where Iranian missiles actually hit and caused damage, and that’s after weeks of nonstop barrages. For the most part, Iran’s weapons stock consists of cheap drones and missiles carrying small payloads. Since they’re cheap, they tend to be inaccurate, but they also tend to be mass produced. So far Iran’s strategy seems to be similar to Russia’s in Ukraine where the hope is that by sending fleet after fleet of these drones and missiles, they could overwhelm the defense systems and hopefully land some hits.

However, unlike Ukraine, Israel is not near Iran and it is way more fortified. They have more bunkers, better alarm and detection systems, and they have a multi layered defense systems in place that have seen real experience. The point is, what we’re saying now is not too different from what we’ve been seeing the past few years. While the volume has gone up, the actual success rate from Iran’s attacks seems to be relatively the same. Just as we’ve seen from Hezbollah, Hamas, and Iran itself, their attacks never resulted in Israel halting its economy.

The key part to note here is that Israel has been through a lot of a wars, a comical amount actually, however, their economy never collapsed. The reason for that is because their economy was built to be resilient to sanctions, boycotts, and war, and it shows. Regardless of how many wars they’ve been in, their ports have always been operational, their exports never stop flowing, and the population is adapted to keep working under such conditions. The point is that Iran’s attack, while expensive for Israel to defend against, is not actually halting Israel’s economy. If Iran was capable of doing that they would’ve done it already.

You yourself don’t seem confident in your belief that the Iranian attacks are doing anything, which is why you pin your hope on your second claim, which is that Israel would collapse if the US stops sending aid. However, this is the most nonsensical myth I’ve seen online. Let’s think about it for a second. First of all, the majority of Americans still support Israel, and it’s unlikely for policy to change. However, let’s assume that it does and all US support for Israel stops… that still doesn’t mean anything.

US aid to Israel, averages out to around $3 billion a year. The US sent around $22 billion since 2023. To put things in perspective, Israel’s GDP is a whooping $610.75 billion with a GDP per capita of $60,010. That makes it one of the biggest, strongest, and wealthiest countries in the world. Their economy has been growing since 2023, and they are more than capable of covering whatever gaps the US leaves behind. US aid is literally just a drop in the bucket, which is exactly why US aid to Israel stupid, but I digress.

If the US suddenly pulled back all support, Israel would have its massive arms industry, it would still have it’s massive economy, it would still its influence in the region, it would still have it’s warm water ports, and it would still have a lot of trading partners. If Russia which has a much weaker economy, arms industry, alliance network as well as no warm water ports and is literally going through a demographic collapse can withstand years of being a pariah state with little support, I can almost guarantee that Israel would fare much better.

The point of me saying all this is that anybody expecting Israel to collapse anytime soon is delusional. That’s just the objective truth. You can call me whatever you want, but can you honestly say I’m wrong? There is no singular factor like US support or Iranian attacks that can make Israel collapse, even a combination of them can’t. It’ll take way more than that to make such a thing happen, and even if it did, you would still have the same 10 or so million people concentrated in the same relatively small area. Meaning that they would just reorganize and create a new state that’s basically Israel 2.0. The one and only way that Israel can stop starting wars and committing atrocities in Gaza is for Israelis to be against these things themselves. Israelis themselves have to vote the far right government and replace them with a government that’s less bloodthirsty. For the people who want the violence and hatred to stop or at least slow down, then supporting the opposition in Israel should be a priority but isn’t for whatever reason.

I really like how you’ve phrased this here — I think I’m going to end up borrowing aspects of your explanation to use myself. The person you’re replying to in this thread seems too entrenched in their opinion to hear the point you’re making here, but I not too infrequently find myself trying to explain the nuance of this phrase to people who are pro-palestinian liberation, but unsure about this particular slogan because they (quite reasonably) don’t want to inadvertently respond to a genocide with pro-genocide.

I’ve usually had good success in explaining why “from the river to the sea” isn’t inherently a pro-genocide slogan, but I feel like your explanation will help me to do this more effectively in future.

You can make up whatever kind of bullshit defense for genocidal slogans as you want and deflect this to be an issue of the interpreter. The reality of course is that the slogan means literally what the people using it has said several times that they want to do - drive the enemies out to of the levant and in to the sea i.e genocide.

Palestinians and Israeli estates demonstratably can not co exist, they have tried for well over a hundred years now and they just keep murdering each other.

BEIng fReE from… omg stfu we all know exactly what it means. Its a call for the cleansing of the lands of the eternal enemy, whether its said by israelies or by palestinians. Its absolutely insane that there are people who defend genocidal slogans.

I mean, there’s really only one way to reasonably achieve that and it’s the one that Israel chose to do first.

Propaganda is unfortunately very effective, and the majority of the Israeli population, similar to the ‘murica population, similar to the population of Putinland, and many others in the world, has taken the bait of hate hook, line and sinker. That doesn’t mean the average Israeli was born more or less evil than you or me. Which means every new generation has a chance of being better than their parents’ generation.

I like Germany now!

Try Soap? Is that some limey slang? I’m an american, I don’t speak foreigner. Except the espanish.

I’m not a fan of what the police did, I just love the taste of boot leather so much!

A typo in your unnecessary correction? How deliciously ironic.