“”““sideloading””“”, oh look who cant say installing software
“Sideloading” is the “jaywalking” of the mobile space
Can someone please come out with a phone that’s an actual computer and help stop this nonsense?
Phones cost a lot of money at this point and I’m completely sick of them being some locked down, surveillance ridden pile of crap. A reasonably built one would be able to replace a laptop at this point if it weren’t for these artificial constraints imposed by the stupid fucking suits running things.
Valve should make a Linux phone. Smaller Steam Deck with a modem
I would LOVE a linux phone
There was an Ubuntu phone. It failed.
There, exacly what you want.
Here’s a more budget one.GPD has been making “mini laptops” for a long while, now they try to make similar gaming handheld.
I’m not sponoered nor I’ve bought this for myself. (yet)furilabs flx1s. I’m using one
https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/astro-slide-5g
This sounds up your ally
Pretty sure they meant a smartphone with a desktop OS installed on it (eg Linux phones), not just “phone that looks kinda like a laptop but still uses Android”
https://www.www3.planetcom.co.uk/devices-specification
That’s why I recommended this, their devices dual boot Android or Linux. One of their older devices quad boots by default
This isn’t a fly by night operation, it’s got a loyal fanbase, and good hardware and software support. They’ve been manufacturing for a decade, before that this guys were doing PDAs.
Battery life is limited by cell modem drivers being closed source and having to be reverse engineered.
I have been looking into an alternate hybrid radio device using Reticulum. Though with that comes a new less convenient user experience for a lot of apps.
I like the idea of a continuum capable module desktop like canonical and Microsoft promised years ago.
dude. you can just install a custom rom.
Intentionally non-standard hardware does not get a real custom rom. It’s just a mod of Android which Google can render intentionally incompatible any time they want
not like linux phones are super compatible
I do not consider a win, and I will continue applying pressure where I can.
Please share how
Making users wait 24 hours doesn’t improve security; it’s an anti-competitive change designed to make the Google Play store seem like less of a hassle in comparison.
It’s not side loading. It’s installing software on the device you probably paid multiple thousands for that you no longer own.
Multiple thousands!? No phone isn’t worth that much. Bloody marketing brainwashing people into accepting exorbitant prices for everything.
If antitrust was being enforced, Google execs wouldn’t even dream of attempting this bullshit.
Antitrust regulation is probably the easiest way to fix the biggest problems in our society, it is 100% bipartisan, and it is easy to explain to the average US voter. The only group that is against it is the billionaires/ultra wealthy. Instead, politicians are all hyperfocused on culture war mudslinging and bullshit that makes no difference.
Break up Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and Meta (just to start), and watch how the tech industry explodes with innovation again, and the tech billionaire becomes an endangered species. The AI bubble will burst as companies actually need to compete to survive, and thus won’t be burning as much resources on crap that clearly doesn’t work.
To call the install of apps of your choice as «sideloading», means that they have won.
That’s the name of the command, though. It’s
adb sideload. Anything else is installing.That’s not even true. If you install an app through adb, the command is
adb install <path/to/app.apk>adb sideload is for installing OTA packages
bs, i did install apks before using
adb sideloadit worksI don’t know if adb sideload will fallback to a regular install, maybe it does as a convenience for people who don’t read the docs? In any case, you said:
That’s the name of the command, though.
And I demonstrated that you’re wrong by linking to the official man page (aka the docs) directly from the master branch of the public git repo. Here’s the relevant part which describes the sideload command:
sideload OTAPACKAGE Sideload the given full OTA package OTAPACKAGE.
idc what those stupid docs say. i know i installed apps with that command before
And I’ve installed apps with
adb install file.apk, your point?the docs about
adb sideloadis wrong. thats my point bec they dont say you can install apps with it
As someone else explained, it is not. The command is
adb install.Why did you feel the need to say it, too? You aren’t adding anything.
What is this comment of yours doing, then?
Exactly?..
I’m writing an app that I will distribute only through f-droid. The people I would like to share it with are typical, non-technical android users. Before those changes I could just send them a link to f-droid apk and explain it’s just another app store or send a link to the apk directly and probably most of them would be able to install it. Now I would have to tell them to do all those weird things first, things that look suspicious and that they would not understand the purpose of. I don’t think anyone will be wiling to do it. This is not a win. The effect will be exactly the same - serious limits on distributing apps though alternative channels.
No we didn’t win. This is Google making it harder to install the programs you want, rather than the programs Google wants you to have.
still just not gonna update my phone for a while until they’ve for sure have allowed side loading. Got my pixel because it’s just a nice phone, and i can put graphene on it when it’s paid off. Half of my apps are all from f-droid, too.
You cannot install graphene until it is paid off?
Some carriers lock the bootloader until you’ve paid off the phone.
Phones produced for sale through Verizon have a permanently locked bootloader.
Fuck Verizon for this exact reason. Never buy from them direct if you can help it.
Didn’t realize this when switching. Went through a whole kerfuffle to cancel the trade in deal.
Phone agent sounded perplexed when I wanted to keep my old Pixel 7 Pro lol.
Why is that?
Would you be able to change the IMEI as I would have thought those were encoded on the hardware chip. If you could it means they couldn’t blacklist the phone if you stopped paying.
Paying you can spoof it
xfinity locks the bootloader until you get your phone paid off and you call them to get it unlocked
So, we will have to enable developer mode for that? How long before banking and government apps refuse to run if you have “sideloaded” apps installed? This will be the same as not allowing the majority of people to sideload. No win in here, just an advanced strategy from google to make us conform
This is already the case if the developer mode toggle is enabled for some. I have to turn it off any time I’m traveling for work because the app we have to use to file expense reports refuses to run with developer mode enabled.
At that point you should tell your work to get a work only device for you… I always refuse to use my phone for work shit. I used to explain to them why, now I just lie and say my device is too old to have anything installed on it.
lmao, no arguments here. My boss’s phone got bit by the construction site so I think we might finally be getting some movement on that front, at least for anyone who finds themselves in the field doing shit.
For what it’s worth, I don’t generally mind using my phone for work shit because it’s convenient to do so. MDM on android works in a container, so I don’t even care about that if they want to implement it.
Yeah I get the convenience of it.
My dad was complaining out loud to his boss, not requesting anything, just complaining about having to bring two phones with him when he was out and about. So his boss got him a dual-sim work phone lol. The convenience can work out that way as well :)
But then you have to use their shitty non privacy friendly phone or still use two phones.
Yup. I would opt for the use of two phones.
And to be completely honest… Its a bit funny to see people complain about having to carry two phones. I mean I get it, its annoying. Buuuuut, back in the day we used to carry a camera, a cd or cassette walkman and of course the trusty old nokia 3210. And everyone thought it was the height of convenience :D Oh how times have changed lol
Aaaand now I sound like a old man yelling at clouds. I’m gonna go have a nap, I’m exhausted.
Yeah, but I travel for work. I dont want to carry two phones, as the one colpany offers is a shitty samsung a-series and I use graphene on my Pixel
Yeah, totally understandable.
I mentioned to the other guy how my dad got a dual-sim phone (not a shitty one) just by sort of mentioning having to carry two phones. I guess some employers are nicer than others :D
You should NEVER be using work apps on a personal device. EVER.
But what if they starting requiring that you remove the sideloaded apps? We’re getting trapped
Or if you’re rooted, or run something other than your OEM image. I use grapheneos and I’m lucky that my bank doesn’t enforce that like some do. I still can’t use cards to tap with Google wallet because it’s not certified by Google.
I totally agree.
I am so tired of this “slow boil”, bs.
Yeah, if that process wouldn’t need developer mode (or stayed active after disabling it again) that wouldn’t be that bad (still annoying). But having to choose between the ability to install apps or use those apps that only work without developer mode certainly isn’t a win.
Huh I’m unfamiliar with this, but I’ve been running graphene for years and before that lineage
deleted by creator
Microsoft appeared to walk back Recall until they suddenly brought it back unannounced and doubled down. So I’ll believe it when I see it
Yeah corpos don’t respect consumers or norms of human dignity, they’ll just do what they want more quietly if you complain. The only real solution is to break up monopolies (ideally for the last several decades).
It is always like this. Make a very anti consumer decision that everyone hates, then tone it down so the half of those people will say “we won”. This is a loss.
We will win when nobody can tell you what you can or can’t put in your own fucking device.
Counterpoint: my software allows you to access your banking needs. I’m financially on the hook if fraud occurs. Fraud occurs because your favorite “slap the monkey” game also installs a keylogger and network monitor. So I don’t allow my software to work if you have that installed.
I think you’re right that companies should not be able to tell you what software you can run, but users also can’t be trusted to keep their devices safe.
A lot of network, banking, and telephony protocols historically rely on trusting that there are no bad actors in the chain. Technology has added more links to the chain increasing the opportunities for bad actors to tap into it.
It’s a situation that needs better fixes. Maybe we just need to hand the current internet over to the bots and start a new one with security and privacy built in from the ground up.
If your software runs on windows or MacOS, this point is such bull, sorry.
Do you monitor what software people have installed accessing their banking needs on those platforms?
Android runs apps sandboxed, so no app can access what you write in another like your banking app, or the unencrypted packages it sends.
Yea the argument stated works better for rooted environments than rootless environments or sideloading.
In a non-root scenario, you would need to specify a few permissions to give a keylogger that amount of access. I think that a big issue is people not understanding that there is a difference between a rooted device or root installed app, and a sideloaded application.
Just because you have a non-google device or a rooted device != you have a compromised device. Applications aren’t going to magically install running as root, every rom worth their salt keeps it a clear isolation between the layers, and some roms don’t even allow you to use the root environment after installing it.
In your standard google phone install? A keylogger wouldn’t be able to be installed without enabling an accessibility permission. It’s not like you can just “oops I just sideloaded a keylogger haha silly me” like described. Both google installed and side loaded applications would require prompting a warning page that very clearly states it allows logging of the screen for the logging part of it to work.
Androids sandboxing is far from bulletproof
That one isn’t an issue with the sandboxing but with the networking system. Secure browsers have that in consideration and are not vulnerable to meta’s tracking.
Maybe banks could use a way to authenticate the user a second way, that doesn’t involve a password. If only. (Sidenote: why do banks still insist on sms 2FA?)
A lot of network, banking, and telephony protocols historically rely on trusting that there are no bad actors in the chain. Technology has added more links to the chain increasing the opportunities for bad actors to tap into it.
Their wish to break the first rule of network security (you can’t trust the client) shouldn’t be everyone else’s problem.
You’re liable if someone shares their credentials? Even if they did it accidentally by installing a keylogger, that seems like user error.
- enable developer options
- confirm that you are not tricked
- restart phone and re-authenticate
- wait one day
- confirm with biometrics that you know what you are doing
- decide if you only want unrestricted installs for 1 week or forever
- confirm that you accept the risks
- enjoy the few apps that still have developers motivated to develop for a user-base willing to put up with this
A classic case of making a ridiculously restrictive change, then “walking it back” to a merely semi-ridiculous change and having everyone sigh in relief.
Just like Anthropic and OpenAI’s willingness to kill people en masse, then walking it back to a nonexistent standard.
And creepily walk it forth step by step.
- Fuck that, keep an old phone and don’t update it
- When it breaks, buy a Linux phone. Or a dumbphone.
- Only way to win? Don’t play their game
- enjoy the few apps that still have developers motivated to develop for a user-base willing to put up with this
- Make your own apps. “Fine, I’ll do it myself” BDE
