• iByteABit@lemmy.ml
    2·
    5 days ago

    The no privacy part is probably going to be true.

    The robot stuff is pure sci-fi to me though. Even if robots become so diverse and capable so quickly to be able to actually replace workers in most fields, the way capitalism works isn’t compatible with that. If most of the workforce is now machines, capitalists have no workers to steal surplus value from, and also have very small demand for their products because all of the working class will be impoverished.

    So even if we get to that point technologically, replacing workers would either happen after capitalism has ended, or it wouldn’t happen by design.

    • StopTech@lemmy.todayOP
      1·
      5 days ago

      even if we get to that point technologically

      We’re pretty much already there. We have robots. They have AI. Most jobs aren’t that complicated - a good proportion could probably be replaced by robots with small improvements in dexterity, predictability and human interaction. Robots just need to become cheaper to make and run which market competition, mass production and nuclear power will gleefully enable.

      capitalists have no workers to steal surplus value from

      They don’t need to get value from human workers, they can get that from robots. Money is only a means to goods and services. Robots can make the goods and provide the services. Lower class people won’t be needed at all. Even the purchases can mainly be done by the wealthy and businesses. Lower class people will not only be uneccessary but entirely non-beneficial to this economy. The only reason those in power might have to keep them around is to inflate their egos by making them prostrate in exchange for their UBI.

      • iByteABit@lemmy.ml
        1·
        4 days ago

        Most jobs aren’t that complicated

        That’s a pretty wild exaggaration

        And capitalists can’t produce surplus value from machines because machines aren’t exploitable, they take a specific amount of capital and transform it into a diferent form of capital. Surplus value can only stem from humans because they are the ones required to sell their labour power for survival even if they don’t get the full value they produced through that wage.

        Also UBI will do nothing at all, it will postpone the problem until inflation swallows it whole.

        • StopTech@lemmy.todayOP
          1·
          3 days ago

          Most jobs in history have already been automated, so I don’t think it’s an exaggeration. Farming has been automated, clothes making has been automated, copying books has been automated, message bearing has been automated, translation has been automated, art creation has been automated, article writing has been automated. Not all of these to the same standard, but the point stands.

          The rest of your comment didn’t make any sense to me. Machines aren’t exploitable? They work for free, they just need energy, which costs much less than what human workers require. If they were conscious then we definitely would say they are exploited all the time.

          • iByteABit@lemmy.ml
            1·
            3 days ago

            A lot of what you said is only automated if you set the quality bar extremely low, farming is a good example you gave but it still requires humans doing the mental and driving work.

            What I mean by exploitation is not just the act of not paying a wage, but the ability for a capitalist to create a surplus value by paying less for the production process than they need to. Machines require a fixed amount of capital to operate and maintain, humans on the other hand are paid just so much as the capitalist can get away with without them revolting. That’s where true surplus originates from and no capitalist could be rich without that surplus, or even exist as an economic class to begin with.

            • StopTech@lemmy.todayOP
              1·
              3 days ago

              A lot of what I said also has machines doing the job better than humans. Copying books and message bearing for example.

              I don’t understand your concept of surplus value. Wouldn’t making profit count as creating surplus value? People can make profit using purely automated production. Or what about turning raw materials into useful products for yourself or to sell to others? Isn’t that creating surplus value?

              humans on the other hand are paid just so much as the capitalist can get away with without them revolting

              That sounds just like the fact machines are given just as much as they require to do their job without breaking. I don’t see the difference. The businessman could decorate his machines and give them more breaks and oil changes than they need, but he doesn’t so therefore he is now getting “surplus value” compared to if he had done those things.