- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.ml
You must log in or # to comment.
As it references the NTSA I think that this is a USA only issue.
“I dont want a chinese car because it would just spy on me”
I only like it when the us government and completely unregulated corporations spy on me. It’s the American way
We need to scrap the entire US government and start over.
Liquidation and composting would be more environmentally friendly than scrapping.
as someone who has dealt with over 20 years of pulling victims, alive and dead, from crashes caused by drunks (am firefighter not terrible driver…) I can say this won’t help shit. Just give more data (profit) to corporations and be used in rights violating ways.
It’s never actually about safety
Why do you think this will not help?
because drunks find a way to make trouble. they’ll get around the tech glitches in the imperfect deployments. they’ll be alert enough to trick it. etc. they’ll drink while driving and the system won’t see that and the impairment won’t be recognized till its too late. (i’m focused on system concerns because I am also a software engineer and know the realities of large scale tech like this.)
to counter the tech I think the punishments for impaired driving (including cell phone use) should be harsh and without kindness, if you cause another person harm. Federally. With no return of your privileges once convicted.
While I am very much anti-government, if I am not going to be allowed to “follow up” with someone who drank and ran over a family member, etc… then we might as well push the lawmakers to do their jobs with the laws we already have. Not make new ones that are clearly there to profit tech and not save lives.
With no return of your privileges once convicted.
All that does is create the problem of driving unlicensed, so now you imprison nonviolent offenders (assuming they aren’t convicted of vehicular homicide type of charges).
I understand the sentiment, but the law of unintended consequences rears its ugly head here very quickly.
what’s nonviolent about having harmed someone while choosing to drive impaired?
also i 100% agree public transportation should be improved too.
but it’s disgusting how many times I see folks who have multiple accidents causing harm to others and are still allowed to drive.
Last year I drove my parent’s car which is equipped with one of these cameras that determine if the driver is distracted or dozing. And I can say for certain that it works. I honestly wish that my car had this sort of a system.
I view this tech like a padlock. Sure some people will do whatever they can to get around it, but it keeps honest people honest. If it can reduce deaths on the road from drunk and tired drivers even by a little bit then isn’t that worth it?
I’m not sure what you mean by not being able to follow up… Driving drunk and killing someone is already punished harshly, and you can even follow up civilly; it’s called a wrongful death suit.
Honest people don’t need the government to spy on them to not drive drunk though?
What about their proposed solution requires any of this data to leave the vehicle?
The law says nothing about keeping the data in the vehicle, so it will 100% be sent outside the vehicle. Most modern cars already transmit your data so why would they change anything?
You are right. Because the law says nothing about the requirements. They haven’t decided on them yet. Come back when they propose something.
It doesn’t work on everyone. These systems have trouble with certain eye shapes, eye makeup, etc.
I think the NHTSA is more looking at detecting alcohol on the driver’s breath passively. But yes, there will always be cases where technology does not work optimally.
Last year I drove my parent’s car which is equipped with one of these cameras that determine if the driver is distracted or dozing. And I can say for certain that it works.
I rented two different modern (2015-2016) Mercedes SUVs. They both had systems that detected tired/inattentive driving. I was neither but after several hours on the road both vehicles would alert that it was time to take a break with a nice little coffee icon. I was conversing with a passenger, driving fine, not wandering between lanes/etc… The first time I kind of doubted myself but subsequent notifications both the passenger and myself were agreeing that we had no idea what it was upset about.
The newer car had another sensor that would get upset if your grip on the steering wheel got too light. That was kind of neat to see how much leeway it’d give you before it got antsy.
Probably because you were driving for a few hours. That makes sense. You may not feel it but driving is an active task that takes more effort than just sitting in a chair.
I would much rather have this system have false positives rather than not have it at all.
It’s 1984 and no one cares
Lately, whenever anyone draws the obvious parallels to 1984, posters seem to jump to say that Orwell had unsavoury beliefs and therefore it negates any correct thing he ever said.
It’s such a weird world where we decide someone must be 100% correct by today’s standards or else everything they ever said must be complete bunk.
All of our historical heroes were assholes by today’s standards, and we will be assholes in the eyes of our descendants.
How Orwellian.
With any luck, the giant tube worms and vent crabs living at the bottom of the ocean don’t even know I exist 😌
I do believe a lot of people care it’s just the ones that care have no power to do anything about it because the ones that have power are making too much money off of us not being able to do anything about it
Yea it’s unfortunate the Republicans are in power. They would have done something about this.
Most people are pathetic weaklings to do something, as I noticed, only americans can somehow resist this fascism along with some other peoples, and the rest of the world is ready to accept any dystopia, and believe in the fairy tales that are told to them, justifying themselves: what could I change?
Looks like I’ll need to start stockpiling old camrys and corollas in addition to hard drives, routers, motherboards, ram, dumb TVs, flip phones/whatever else they’re taking away this year.
They will really do anything before investing in public transit
Automobile-centric infrastructure was such a colossal societal fuck-up.
Bad for personal health, physical safety, household finances, and the environment. Automobiles are not a symbol of freedom, they are a symbol of dependence.
While I agree about automobile centric structure, when rural living automobiles are absolutely the ticket to freedom. It’s a shame more populace areas get designed around maintaining dependence on cars.
I think the point is choice. Even those living in suburban and urban areas have a difficult time opting out of car-dependence.
If you choose to live rural, I would say that automobiles are part and parcel to that decision. It’s just the nature of low population density.
Except there is absolutely no reason it has to be like that in rural areas. Period. At all. Even a little. Look at China (or if you still believe the NED puts out legitimate stories, Denmark or Sweden or Norway) which has public transit to nearly all rural areas at least a couple times a week, and inter-village public transit in pretty much all villages that have more than a dozen people.
Busses are more efficient than independent vehicle ownership in all settings. All of them.
More efficient, sure, but their argument was about freedom, which is just a different dimension. In an extreme example, private jets provide more freedom than public transportation does, even though it’s obvious which one is worse for the environment, more expensive, more intrusive, etc.
Except that’s not freedom.
It is not freedom to have a, and this really isn’t an exaggeration, more than 10,000x personal cost for transportation. It’s freedom for the rich, but the rich aren’t a part of society and cannot be generalized into society.
It is not freedom to have to personally rely on the US to do the right thing.
It is not freedom to take on the massive legal and financial risk that is driving a death machine.
It is only freedom in the most infantile, ‘Anarkiddie’ sense of the word freedom. The ‘Hurr durr we’d all be more free if we had less laws’ kind of idiocracy most humans abandon by the age of 15 when they learn about the concept of government.
What anarchist supports car ownership bullshit in America?
Yup, drunkards in a tram are annoying but they almost never kill people and cause tens of thousands in damage.
almost never
thank you for that almost. jackasses like me see words like always and never as challenges and this is not one i want to take
The day the vehicle I paid for doesn’t work because a goddamn sensor thinks I’m not fit to drive is the day I break my foot off in someone’s ass.
Fuck this dystopian shit show we’re creating for ourselves.
Vote better.
And ride a bike
I think it’s better to wait for the collapse, then we can try to build everything as normal without capitalism. But I’m afraid that it will be again - I wanted the best, but it turned out as always.
That’s accelerationism
What part of this one is capitalism’s fault? Capitalism definitely has its issues but let’s make sure that we are accurate with criticisms otherwise they feel disingenuous.
Capitalism as a system cannot work stably forever, such a system requires endless growth, which is impossible, and sooner or later it will find itself in a dead end, and there will be a very terrible collapse, for example, now it is an absolute automation of everything possible, without the possibility of normal control.
I’m not disagreeing but this problem has nothing to do with infinite growth it is mostly to do with government overreach. Which is kind of the opposite problem actually. My point is mostly when you attribute the failures of one system to problems it doesn’t cause it weakens your position forever and makes it harder to find real solutions.
I’m no economist but the academic model of capitalism works just fine. The problem is when you have moral and ethical failings while legislating off the guardrails that keep things fair and people honest.
There’s nothing wrong with capitalism. It’s us.
We’re the problem.
What’s with all the faux accelerationist shit on here the last few days?
And when all the used cars are gone and I’m forced to buy one of these I’ll promptly be destroying the radio transmitters and everything related to this surveillance.
Straight to jail.
Right away.
Do not pass go. Do not collect 200 local currency units.
the “surveillance” seems to happen on the car locally. Kind of an expansion of current driver attention systems to include impairment detection.
“Local” surveillance happening on the same car computer that’s attached to a SIM card.
Yeah seems safe
It’ll be like the 70s in the US again. Rip out all the bullshit smog stuff and put on a new carb. Because a v8 mustang shouldn’t be making 130hp.
Why are govts like this suddenly? All in a arms race against privacy?
Because late stage capitalism, lobbyists pushed legislators to allow data collection so that it can be sold to insurance companies who also lobbied so that they can charge more for premiums.
Every company makes more profit.
We don’t live in a democracy anymore.
Guillotine insurance companies. They’re just scummy middle-men that seek profit at the cost of everyone else
Rich people avoid them too. They use bonds in some states, and collect interest on the bond to boot.
This was mandated by the 2021 infrastructure bill. I was hoping it got scrapped but apparently not.
The commodification of life itself.
Once you understand that we are just livestock to those in charge, a lot of their behavior starts to make more sense.
Not suddenly. It’s been going on at least as far back as 2001. Probably more. It’s generally not the gov’t either as the gov’t is mostly driven by moneyed private interests like large corporations. They always push in different ways to get more power to make profit. Get rid of a regulation, make new regulation, get a subsidy, limit rights to resist some abuse, etc. Sometimes it’s just more obvious that others in general, or it’s in an are we personally pay attention to, and we’re like WTAF.
There are valid concerns about crazy surveillance bills, but this specific one is overreaction.
Basically the 2021 infrastructure bill asks NHTSA to come with a standard to detect impaired driving (it doesn’t say how it should be implemented, the camera watching us is author’s imagination how it would be implemented) and if there is no technology available then they should publish a yearly report describing current state of things.
Because of the yearly report requirement I’ve been reading similar article saying that this will happen in 2026. That’s how I learned about first.
You can find the reports here: https://www.nhtsa.gov/reports-to-congress
I think those overreacting articles are doing disservice because they distract us from actually dangerous things like for example bills like the one trying to incorporate age verification into OS requiring for example Microsoft verifying our identity before we can use their OS.
Not many people realized that bill like this already sneaked and was signed into law in California for example. It mandates this starting 2027.
They’re scared of the likes of Luigi and paper Mario. More and more people are getting fed up
Its been like this my entire life. When I was in high school in the 90s one of my teachers said the greatest battle your generation will fight will be for privacy. Little did they know there would be no fight. The general public doesn’t seem interested in caring about things and voting with their wallet. Now we’ve reached this point where the game is up and companies have realized the masses will buy their products because people perceive that they “need” them and can’t do without which gives them free reign to do whatever they want.
Because the people vote for such governments.
Well in part it’s just being perceived that way. The car will decide if you’re drunk somehow becomes government surveillance. The App Store will ask for proof of age: government surveillance. And so on.
I’m not saying that this is a false interpretation but certainly it’s leaned on extremely hard in the way people report on and talk about these things. Hence why you get the sense that everyone everywhere is suddenly completely about government surveillance.
I think we could have a whole conversation about drunk driving and the efficacy and fairness of this kind of measure without even cracking the lid on government surveillance. But no one wants that. Nope, if it isn’t a direct descent straight into Fascism, it doesn’t get clicked on.
It’s almost like dozens of major companies are going on a blitz of heavy public surveillance projects that are very publicly selling that data directly to the government… So when yet another of those companies already doing those things Congress up with a new surveillance method, people can do the math
https://www.gadgetreview.com/federal-surveillance-tech-becomes-mandatory-in-new-cars-by-2027
Can we post the original sources and not middle men?
Chinese EVs it is, nonIronically safer and more trustworthy than American products
The bar is not that high.
So… ICE will know both your location and face every time you get in your car? Yeah, I’m sure this won’t result in a genocide. /s
The used car market looks mighty good right about now.
