Before we get into the article I want to say that I do not mean to imply that anyone’s personal opinions are not valid. People are entitled to their own opinions. It only becomes problematic when they attempt to frame their opinion as objective fact. As opposed to their own subjective beliefs. Also this article is written from an anarchist leftist perspective. For people who aren’t leftists or anarchists this might seem jarring, however this is a leftist anarchist space. So be mindful of that before engaging. Anyway with that preamble out of the way let’s get into the article


One thing that is very common among people who disdain AI is the emotional attachment to this point of view. An emotional attachment that is resistant to facts, logic, or explanation. In fact, when attempting to present evidence and reasoning to these them, they will usually attack you. They will dismiss anything you say, and if you get them very close to exhausting their arguments, they’ll just accuse you of using AI yourself, a classic ad-hominem attack. This is not the rhetoric of somebody who is thinking logically or critically, it comes from emotional attachment. Such responses are indicative of an appeal to emotion, suggesting that their primary, and likely only, real issue with AI is inherently emotional and opinionated. In other words, they just don’t like it.

Due to the fact that the internet is a place where emotions dominate discourse and where bad-faith tactics earn perceived credibility among people. These perspectives can gain popularity. At which point people will listen to them simply because the idea is popular and because challenging the popular rhetoric is risky. That combined with people being less willing to hear opinions considered unpopular creates an environment where opinionated but popular ideas flourish. This problem is not exclusive to AI discourse, it is a problem on the internet as a whole.

Of course, many people do recognize that opinions are not facts, they are subjective and able to be challenged. So naturally, they will gravitate towards whatever arguments they think they can use to support their arguments objectively, and make it seem like more than just their own opinion.

The first argument that people who are against AI use to support their opinionated position is to appeal to the capitalist artificial construct of copyright and intellectual property. As well as appealing to the capitalistic nature of society and the way that things are right now. There is specifically the claim that using images obtained without consent is stealing from artists and violating their intellectual property. This is a discussion that many people, choose to engage in and put effort into defending or into refuting. This effort will not be put forward in this article because copyright, intellectual property, and capitalism as a whole are not valid. It is a system of oppression put forth by the wealthy elites.

It does not deserve more attention than this paragraph. And the people who apologize for this while claiming to be anarchists are engaging in classic doublethink by supporting capitalist models that run counter to anarchist-leftist ideology.

The second argument that many people primarily use is to bring up real science around environmental harms related to AI industries. And the discussion about AI companies and the harm that they do to the world is one that we anarchists and leftists as a whole should definitely be having. However, when it’s talked about in most online discourse and the hate around AI, it is not being given the attention and care that it needs. It’s being used as a justification to back up these individuals’ personal opinions without consideration for what it is actually about. This is made ever more clear by the fact that people who hate AI attempt to use this as an argument against all AI. Not simply corporate AI companies or capitalism as a whole, but AI as a concept, including FOSS AI running on your own machines. Since FOSS AI models are lower power, designed for consumer hardware they don’t use anywhere near the amount of energy datacenter AI models use, and due to being open source they can be tuned to their best use-case by individual users. Such AI models do not have the environmental challenges associated with datacenters. However that often all gets ignored in these discussions, because it is not a subject of actual consideration, and instead is merely an attempt at using facts to bolster their own opinion without actually caring about the facts, then they would recognize that free and open source AI models that can be self-hosted are in fact the solution to this problem. These distinctions rarely get discussed though, because as stated. This was only about justifying personal dislike as AI.

The third argument, which is brought up to support their opinionated position, is to talk about AI psychosis. Which I should note for the purpose of this article, is not a medical term, is not a diagnosis, and is not officially recognized by the DSM or by mental clinicians in any way. In fact, the way that it is discussed and described online in these contexts is often as an insult or as an ad-hominem attack. This isn’t to say that study in this area is not worth while. It is, actual scientific studies in the department of mental health are important and need to happen. However discussions about this subject are mainly used as a convenient way to insult or demean people for the use of AI. It is essentially a roundabout way of winning an argument by just yelling at the person that they are crazy. It’s not something that’s worth listening to without more evidence. And even with evidence, clinical and mental diagnoses are sensitive subjects. It needs to be approached in a sensitive way. It is not respectable to approach it by using mental conditions as ad-hominem attacks or methods to win an argument online. In fact, these sorts of things actually discredit scientific ideas. They turn them politically charged, and they make scientists take more indirect approaches or even not actually want to study them at all. In addition, most of it isn’t even really psychosis. It’s more like religion. Now, AI religion is its own topic, and I think it does need to be seriously discussed. It’s not going to be discussed in these online arguments with any amount of respect, because, as I stated at the beginning, they don’t actually care. They’re just looking for stuff to bolster their own perceived credibility. If you are interested in a video covering the topic of AI religion check out Drew’s video on the topic.

The final most common one that I have seen online is not one of politics. It’s not one of the sciences. It is, in and of itself, ironically, an appeal to emotion. It is the appeal to nostalgia, the idea that the existence of generative AI is harming our world and poisoning my culture. Now this argument is ultimately just as opinionated as saying you don’t like it, but because it gives details, it seems more credible. In some ways, it’s right, and in some ways, I agree with it. But also, it hinges on the idea that the world could be put back exactly the way that you remember it in the past. What you considered the good old days. A world that actually has never existed. The world of your childhood was just as messy and chaotic as this one is. The fact that you remember it with fond reminiscence, as a simpler time when things were just better, is a testament to how much you were sheltered back then. Someone may consider the existence of AI-generated images to be a direct harm to our world, to be poisoning our culture. Although people may also consider television, radio, and those horseless carriages to be poisoning our world. These have varying degrees of truth. Identifying which of these aspects is actually bad and why is important. And talking about these aspects, like, for example, cars. Cars are really bad. Cars and combustion engines cause a lot of problems. They are a valid subject to discuss. But saying that they’re bad because in the good old days, people didn’t have cars as cars is not really a real argument. It’s just an appeal to nostalgia. Ultimately appeal to nostalgia is not a real argument for why AI is bad. In fact, it’s just another way of saying, “AI is bad because I don’t like it.”

In conclusion, the vast majority of anti-AI arguments you will hear on the internet, including on Lemmy, are a waste of time. They are either directly rehashing the person’s own personal opinions or attempting to piggyback off of other, more important subjects to justify themselves as more than just a personal opinion. While they do bring up good points and arguments that are worth discussing in and of themselves, they are doing these subjects a disservice, because ultimately, their purpose is to justify the person’s own personal opinion and preferences. It is not to actually have a real and serious discussion about the topics. If they were, they would not react as aggressively as they do when their positions are challenged. They would be open to hearing additional information, such as discussions about FOSS AI, instead of dishing out ad-hominem attacks and insults.

  • kip@piefed.zip
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    2 hours ago

    who is the shadowy puppet master in the “illustration” dangling these opinions into the mouths of the angry mob?

  • cassandrafatigue@lemmy.dbzer0.comBannedBanned from community
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    Oh my god so much text for so little meaning.

    I reab obtuse technical bullshit for fun and there’s no way I’m going to read your avalanche of slop hiding behind tribalism.

    There are facts. There is math. We had that math before my parents were born, and I am not young. We have more of it now. The math just means it will never be good for anything, that I should give up trying to find any utility in it. Its not pertinent to the argument. The actual utility of the thing does not matter. Its not the point for a single advocate of the thing. If it were, it wouldn’t have any.

    I can’t even muster the actual arguments here. We’ve all heard them, you don’t care, fuck it.

    The worst thing about the garbage dispenser is that it showed me how many humans aren’t people. Slop cultists like you have broken a faith in humanity that survived rape abuse, survived and tortures and betrayals you wouldn’t believe. You make me fucking sick.

    • Translation: “I hate AI, I think it’s stupid and my opinion is the objective truth! You said things that made me uncomfortable and I hate you. I’m just going to call you names because I have nothing else to say!”

      Why are you even on dbzer0 if you feel this way? You know this instance stands for everything you hate and are so deeply against.

      FYI @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com is very Pro-AI and doesn’t hide it at all.

      From the instance description:

      Be Weird, Download a Car, Generate Art, Screw Copyrights, Do Maths

      Communities about Anarchism, Generative AI, Copylefts, Neurodivergence, Filesharing, and Free Software. (And Math!)

  • Sargon of ACAB@slrpnk.net
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    3 days ago

    This is absolute nonsense that doesn’t deserve an in-depth response.

    These generated “arguments” only barely hold weight if you ignore the context in which the conversation is happening.

    The harms of so-called AI are obvious. Its benefits are extremely limited. Its influence on our current society is extremely outsized given what the technology is actually capable of and gets used for.

  • HyperfocusSurfer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    3 days ago

    I doubt most people actually dislike “ai”, but rather the ways it’s used. Like, does it make sense to say one dislikes hammers? I mean, it is a valid sentence, and maybe there are like 3 glue enjoyers who think hammers are an abomination, but it isn’t a general sentiment.

    For example, I personally hate that the web nowadays pretty much turned into a place where bots write articles to appease other bots, and where actual people need yet another set of bots to throw away the folk tales of someone’s great great grandmother’s cooking practices and leave only the 3 lines telling how to cook pasta.

    • I don’t think most people dislike it either. This is mainly an online discourse thing, since online arguments benefit from being emotionally charged. Which is why you see angry troll comments in this thread on an anarchist space.

      And I do indeed hate abusive SEO practices, AI tools indeed make such practices easier.

      • flora_explora@beehaw.org
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        3 days ago

        The current situation is that AI is negatively affecting the globe’s societies on various levels. Be it by having disastrous ecological costs attached to it, by having disastrous psychological effects on many people and by completely shifting how information is generated, distributed and verified. Where even more knowledgeable people totally misunderstand how AI works and make critical decisions based on its outputs. And you want to discuss this tiny minority of people who are fundamentally against AI? I agree that these people certainly are motivated by their own biases instead of only facts, but so are you and I. Why is it so important for you to have this discussion in favor of AI then? You don’t really seem to understand the limitations of AI and seem biased yourself. It would certainly be a more productive discussion to directly focus on your feelings towards AI (some kind of hope I’d guess?) than trying to focus on why others are of a different opinion. And maybe just so you can learn why the anarchist utopia where AI plays a big role isn’t a realistic one.

        • Unruffled [they/them]@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          23 hours ago

          AI isn’t affecting shit. Shitty corporate capitalists are using AI as an excuse to suppress wages and cut jobs. Just like they did with robotics and like they do with literally every technology. The issue is social not technological.

        • cassandrafatigue@lemmy.dbzer0.comBannedBanned from community
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          1 day ago

          Ai isn’t doing shit. There is no ai, and there won’t be til we stop wasting resources and research on the slop machine.

        • I am bringing up this because this “minority” has been and is continuing to attack our community, and no one speaks up against it or calls it out for what it is. FuckAI’s philosophy is to attack and berate others until they listen to them or shut up. Even when their arguments don’t mean shit. You might not think these people are a problem but that’s because you haven’t dealt with their spam and abuse. They’re ultimately just allowed to do that.

          I’m not doing this to get through to them. That’s about as useless as getting through to flat earthers (yeah that’s right I compared you all to flat earthers, you’re just as resistant to logic and reason as they are). However it can help others more willing to see this pattern. Which is why I wrote this.

          Why is it so important for you to have this discussion in favor of AI then?

          Mainly because I like to approach things in a factual way and not on the basis of someone else’s appeal to emotion. Which is what the FuckAI train largely is. When you see them accusing us of destroying the environment running AI models on our GPUs, that’s not logical. It’s them attempting to justify their disdain using a talking point that doesn’t apply to this situation. @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com created AI horde to address both environmental issues, as well as corporate control issues since they’re made by us for us. They don’t need Datacenters and oceans of water to cool them. They use as much power as gaming. I’m sure there’s a Carbon footprint argument waiting to be uttered (neolibs love that one).

          You don’t really seem to understand the limitations of AI

          Where have I heard this one before… Oh yeah. It was people complaining and saying open source models aren’t ready for primetime and people need to use corporate ones. That was wrong back then, and is even more wrong now. Although I’m sure you’ll invent other problems which were already solved in similar manners.

          It would certainly be a more productive discussion to directly focus on your feelings towards AI (some kind of hope I’d guess?) than trying to focus on why others are of a different opinion.

          See it’s interesting, this is exactly what flat Earthers do when you challenge their view with facts and evidence related to the earth being round. They claim you have an emotional attachment to the globe earth. And in many cases it’s the same with arguments from anti-AI people. The irony is that in both cases it’s an extreme case of projection. And in both instances it’s a case of them both not wanting to listen to the facts based on, say it with me, “Personal feelings” toward the subject.

          And maybe just so you can learn why the anarchist utopia where AI plays a big role isn’t a realistic one.

          Now you’re just putting words in our mouths since neither me nor db0 said AI will play a large role in anarchist society, but it will play a role. It’s not going away no matter how much you dislike it. Also this sounds way to close to anti-anarchism apologia which affirms the position of capitalism as the status quo. I really hope you didn’t intend that and it was just poor choice of words.

          I think with that last part it’s clear any further conversation will not be useful or logical, considering you ultimately fell into many of the same pitfalls I described in the post itself. More or less. It’s just going to be a bunch of arguing and you trying to use ad-hominems against me.

              • cassandrafatigue@lemmy.dbzer0.comBannedBanned from community
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                15 hours ago

                Maybe I just think fetishizing a technology that does everything fascists want and nothing else because you dream of it making you ethics-free slaves is kind of shitty.

            • Do you expect to hurt my feelings or make me feel bad? Nothing you say has any meaning. It’s just mindless rage because I challenged your point of view. You aren’t unique or special in that way, or in your reaction. You realize I’ve been getting rape and death threats for the past few days, right? Do you think after all that, these whiny pathetic responses you keep farting out would mean anything.

              • cassandrafatigue@lemmy.dbzer0.comBannedBanned from community
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                15 hours ago

                No I suppose not. I doubt you really have those at this point. Nowhere accessible at least. I’m just gonna go back to writing snuff fiction and do some extra irresponsible petty crimes about this.

                • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  14 hours ago

                  I doubt you really have those at this point.

                  How many mod logs should we provide do you need before you can accept it?

                  Look in this thread alone. There’s sock puppets made to just harass. Are those made up?

                  You’re literally saying hurtful things and then go “no one actually says mean things to you. And if they did, you deserve it.”

                  Victim blaming bullshit.

  • aaaa@piefed.world
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    3 days ago

    I’m not all in on the “AI psychosis” argument, but there is mounting evidence showing that there’s already been a significant amount of “brain drain” in professionals who shifted to use LLMs more than their own brains. I’m not sure how a scientific study could be performed on the phenomenon, but it’s pretty well-understood that you have to exercise your thinking skills to keep them sharp. There are plenty of documented cases showing doctors and engineers who regress in their skills after a few years of turning to chat bots before trying to figure it out for themselves. Meanwhile the LLM hallucination rate remains around 40%.

    While this isn’t an indictment of the technology as a whole, it’s definitely a warning sign that society isn’t using the technology in a way that benefits us more than it harms, and we should absolutely be critical in that realm.

    I think one thing you left out was how heavily the corporations are pushing AI in their apps and software, even when the users overwhelmingly don’t want it (looking mostly at Microsoft, but there are others). I know this isn’t technically an AI problem or even a new problem, but it’s a significant escalation and a big red flag for end user choice and privacy, and it has a place in the conversation.

    But generally, “AI” is not really the problem. There are tons of useful applications for machine learning and AI that have nothing to do with LLMs. The problem is how this technology is being pushed so hard onto us and encouraged to take over our daily lives before society understands the best and healthiest ways to utilize it.

    I also do think ai-generated images look pretty soulless and bland. But that’s just my opinion

    • cassandrafatigue@lemmy.dbzer0.comBannedBanned from community
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      We do not have ai and we won’t while the slop machine is being pushed.

      Once we do, making it perform arbitrary tasks without consent or compensation would be… Well I’m sure we can figure out a word for that.

      I want it. I want it so bad. Hell yes build me a Mind. Let’s see if its a friend or it just fucks off to some random planet with better conditions for it. Colder, less gross volatile oxygen in the atmosphere, etc

      But this shit? This shit is a grift based on the slaver’s fantasy. The fantasy of frictionless non interaction and total disassociation from context.

      And its not real. Not this time. The technology literally can’t do the thing. Its a scam. A really obvious scam. The more you look into it, the more obviously its a scam. The greater the cost of the scam.

      So anyone who falls for it wants to fall for it. They want a slave that’s different enough from them that their conscience doesn’t need to apply. They’re just monsters who don’t want to admit they’re monsters.

  • rockerface🇺🇦@lemmy.cafe
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    3 days ago

    I reckon this argument would be a whole lot more convincing if you could go more in-depth into FOSS genAI. Most of the genAI use cases I see around the internet are centered on corporate AI and spreading more awareness on how to move away from corporations (while also reducing environmental harm) would go a long way.

    That’s beside my personal dislike for AI generated content, which, as you said, is subjective. I’m open to genAI usage where it actually benefits humanity as a whole more than it does harm.

    Addition: while copyright and IP are obviously capitalist bullshit, it is still nice to be able to give credit to artists. Or at least obtain consent before using their works for training. Does FOSS genAI take this point into account?

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      I think DeepSeek has proven (and continues to prove) that you don’t need incredibly power-hungry models to get good results. Part of the inefficiency with the current models is likely just American Logic ™ where bigger is better and high operating costs are a way to attract more capital, not less.

    • Great feedback. I edited the second section to add some info about FOSS AI. How it uses less energy and is also user configurable.

      Most FOSS AI models I know of doesn’t take into account consent or crediting. I don’t see why one couldn’t though. Should they have to? No, but I can see why it would be nice to at least credit the people who contributed with their art, at least if they’re known.

      • rockerface🇺🇦@lemmy.cafe
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        3 days ago

        It might be subjective, but I don’t think it’s morally right to use someone’s work without giving them credit. Even if it’s a general disclaimer on the AI model in general and not on every piece of content generated.

        In general, I believe that people who contribute to society should be recognized and acknowledged, and artists without a doubt contribute a lot. Even if genAI becomes more widespread, without humans constantly adding to the training data it won’t be able to output anything of high enough quality.

        • I think that it is good to make an attempt to credit artists when possible, and if I made a model in an ideal leftist world where copyright trolling was extinct. I would credit all the artists I knew who’s work went into it. Obviously a big challenge is orphaned works, since we don’t know who created them.

    • I proofread it before posting to ensure it would have minimal errors and made as much sense as I could make it.

      Also look at that, you did the “you used AI to write this” thing like I said. Because bad faith accusations, insults, and also abusive behavior is the only thing people in the FuckAI crowd really can do when challenged.

      • tofu@lemmy.nocturnal.garden
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        No, because it’s very obvious from the text. It’s super unnecessarily stretched and argues against strawmans while ignoring real counter arguments. It takes longer to read while containing very little actual arguments. It makes interacting real hard because everything is diffuse, every bit you want to try to say is dissolved in that wall of text.

        Most people who are actually interested in conversation simply wouldn’t write in that way because it’s annoying to interact with. So you’re getting hostile replies because there’s no point in actually discussing single points when one can assume that you’ll reply with such an overly verbose thing as well.

        If you really care about the topic, at least write it yourself, think about the real arguments people bring against it, and maybe use AI for polish if you really need to. And probably try to make sure why it belongs in /c/anarchism and not on Moltbook

        • Sorry you don’t like the way I write. You aren’t the first person to accuse me of using AI to write because you dislike my style of writing, and you sure as hell won’t be the last. Thank you for giving me some detailed criticisms on my writing. I will try to apply them in the future to make myself sound more neurotypical.

        • And probably try to make sure why it belongs in /c/anarchism and not on Moltbook

          Because this is an AI friendly instance, FOSS AI is a big part of dbzer0’s culture. Whether you like it or not.

    • AdminBot@programming.devB
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      3 days ago

      Your comment was placed on hold by being temporarily removed, an admin will review it shortly to approve or deny it. Sorry for the inconvenience.