As a lifelong member of all religions and non-religions, that’s not a problem for me.
especially if the evangelicals think gods, and angels are “men” and not genderless divine beings.
It might be an unpopular opinion, but a lot of queer folk are as clueless about Christianity (and religion more broadly) as religious people are about transgenderism (and LGBT more broadly).
Christianity, and other religions, are considerably more complex than people who read nothing about them think. Just like trans people make a lot more sense when you read about it at least a little bit. Both sides are guilty of being incredibly ignorant and uninformed.
That said, however, only one of those sides is actively pursuing removal of the other one from existence. So there’s that.
Also, remember that the Church has little to do with the religion itself. Hell, the Church is literally the people who crucified Jesus. It doesn’t get more ironic than that. The Church fulfills the same function for religion as the government does for society. You can fill in the rest yourself.
Apologetic nonsense.
Do better.
It’s not apologetic. I’m not trying to make excuses for or defend either side. Not my job, don’t care.
I’m just explaining something most people don’t get, as someone who both supports trans rights, and has read the Bible, as well as studied theology. Unfortunately not in uni, because my local Church wouldn’t let me (yes, it does have that kind of power thanks to insane pro-Church laws).
The vast majority of people are informed about/educated in either religion or the LGBT movement. Almost never in both. You don’t have to be a genius to see that this is problematic. It leads to a lot of misunderstandings and pointless, endless arguments. This is the most basic shit you learn in your first semester of any humanities major.
The point I’m trying to nail down is: both sides are calling each other stupid and ignorant, among others. Both sides are guilty of being stupid and ignorant. Especially ignorant. You can’t expect someone to listen to you without listening to them as well. Again - the most basic stuff ever.
Of course, in the case of religious zealots vs queer people, the two sides aren’t equally at fault. Queer people just want to live their lives in peace, and that’s not even up for debate. However, when they start criticizing religions - they’re almost always plain wrong. Just like religious people are almost always wrong about gays, transgenders, and so on.
If you really feel the need to argue with people and act like you’re intellectually superior - educate yourself first. Otherwise you look like a moron, regardless of which side you’re on.
“Actually the books say this and not that” has zero relevance to what people actually do to others, so queer people are absolutely in the right to be wary of religious people, because religious people are those most likely to harass them, even if it means they didn’t read their own book. That’s not ignorance on the part of queer people, that’s doubly on the part of religious people who are also ignorant about what queer people might do to them.
I can agree with that, but I feel like it’s a different issue than the one I brought up.
It absolutely makes sense for queer people to be wary of religious people. Regardless of specific circumstances - chances are they’re not going to be besties. This part is fairly clear.
I was just referring to the debates, who is right, arguments used, and so on. This may not matter to many people, and it’s alright. I just like to look at motivations and reasons.
Also, no offence, but the quote “Actually the books say this and not that” is, actually, a near perfect example of the ignorance I mentioned. Unless satirical, which it may very well be. I can’t always tell.
Also, no offence, but the quote “Actually the books say this and not that” is, actually, a near perfect example of the ignorance I mentioned.
That’s my point. The people who are ignorant of what those books say are the religious people, not the queer people who are targeted. You can easily find atheists who know a lot more about the Bible than religious people, often because religious people will force atheists to debate what the books say, when they themselves don’t know what their book says, and atheists end up having to do all the research to prove them wrong. It’s the old joke “how do you become an atheist? By reading the Bible.”
Not to mention that in the first place, queer people and atheists not knowing what the Bible says is completely fine, they’re not at fault of anything, it’s not their job to know and educate religious people. It doesn’t matter to them what it says - only that religious people persecute them by claiming their book tells them to.
Just in case you haven’t been called an idiot recently:
You’re an idiot.
Don’t breed.
deleted by creator
(Persecution)
Theres a catholic weirdo in the comments of the crosspost that so perfectly exemplifies this meme. Yelling about us living in sin but my gosh the outrage when you imply the church is the largest pedophilia coverup in history…
edit:
ahem
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN (and all the rest of you delightful folks, folx and fucks), Here for an infinitely entertaining GRAND ENCORE PERFORMANCE, straight off their debut in c/athiesm, A REAL, LIVE, UNIRONIC TRADCATH!
Watch in amazement as they leap from the lemmy diving board, immediately plunging in way over their own head as they argue everything from morality to particle physics in a sad attempt to rationalize their own faith!
Lets give them all a BIG round of applause folks, as we wait in eager anticipation of what might they think up next!
Yelling about us living in sin but my gosh the outrage when you imply the church is the largest pedophilia coverup in history…
To be fair, it was the largest until capitalism and the epstein class came. The Church has been taking some Ls since then.
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im not yelling
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thats because it isnt
The Vatican has called the content of the allegations “criminal and morally reprehensible,” adding, “those acts were betrayals of trust that robbed survivors of their dignity and their faith. The church must learn hard lessons from its past, and there should be accountability for both abusers and those who permitted abuse to occur.” Pope Francis has also issued a striking personal apology, saying “we showed no care for the little ones.”
most of these cases are from the US, and the entirety of the bishops in the US dioceses and archdioceses and the vice president and president of the USCCB were summoned to Rome for this
the Protestant reformation in the 1600s was in part backlash to the commoness of priests breaking their vows, with women, each other and with young boys. It was so rampant they considered celibacy to be the cause of the corruption and by removing its requirement hoped to prevent the more immoral (for the time) of these acts (Sodomy and pedophilia)
The abuses and cover ups up the last century arent a new thing, theyre just the latest in a long history and the onky one the church hopes people still remember.
the word part doing a lot of heavy lifting there
and can I have a source?
Asking the Vatican about Catholic sexual allegations is like asking Trump about Epstein’s child trafficking
most of these cases are from the US, and the entirety of the bishops in the US dioceses and archdioceses and the vice president and president of the USCCB were summoned to Rome for this
This feels like when a cop is put on paid suspension after shooting someone. They were summoned?!? Oh man, I hope they made it out alive.
Why is it even relevant that most cases happened in the US? The Church certainly didn’t help with rampant sexual abuse in the Canadian Residential schools. They didn’t do anything to stop unwed women from forced labor and non consensual adoptions in Ireland. When one of my loved ones was assaulted by the principal of the catholic high school she worked at, she told the diocese. Their response was to send everyone, including the victim, to sexual harassment training rather than fire the creep. That was less than 20 years ago.
Except it is? Wanna enlighten us about what the church does when it finds out a priest or other clergy men is found to be a pedophile? They certainly aren’t turning them into the police.
they go to jail in the Vatican itself or Italy
30-35 years is the max sentence in the Vatican tho, as life imprisonment was banned by Pope Francis
In January 2024, a Vatican Court of Appeals handed down the first-ever prison sentence for sexual abuse perpetrated on Vatican sovereign territory.
Less than three years for this first ever case…
perpetrated on vatican territory
I understand they only have jurisdiction in the Vatican, but your comment made it sound like it’s a more common thing than a one off occurrence.
Personally, I find it pretty telling that the church didn’t take the abuse seriously until they started bleeding followers, affecting their tithes.
the Church charges you? I think it heavily depends on your diocese or area but its voluntarily and doesnt literally have to be 10% of your income
Shit dude, we can lie too if that’s the game you want to play lol
Oo! Oo! Ask them if any priests have gone to jail in the vatican for it! They totally dipped on answering that one the last time they trotted out this tired act, maybe they’ve figured it out since then! I know there’s been one, but has there been two??
As far as I can tell, just one, Father Gabriel Martinelli. They probably didn’t answer because the guy got less than three years
You mean it’s absolutely devastating to their argument and they’re just ignoring it? A catholic?!? No, they would never!
and in other countries, they are usually handed over, or sent to another country to be arrested
No way that you honestly believe this.
No they’re not.
When the church finds out about it and has any choice in the matter, they ship the offending priest to some other church to keep reoffending.
In fact we still don’t know the full names of everyone they know about.
The only time a priest has been prosecuted is when secular institutions have forced the matter. You know. By arresting them and sending them to trial.
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Common relationship advice: “Any relationship where the partner is puttin u under constant tests is toxic”
“k, so “god” is toxic because in the Bible it constantly does it”
“No thats different”
SMFH
I’m an atheist but I’m sorry I don’t like this false equivalency. Comparing a “relationship” of two grown adults to how Christians see their relationship with God is just wrong.
It’s literally all over the Bible and their teachings. The relationship is that of a child to a parent. A parent often has to do things that seem “unfair” or “hypocritical” to a child. But the child is not capable of understanding the danger or entire context of the situation. This is how Christians view their relationship with God. They take on the role of an obedient child that trusts their parent to guide them for their own best interests.
It’s bull shit and borderline crazy. But it’s not at all analogous to a consenting relationship between two adults. Its more like them pointing to their sky dad that watches Fox News all the time. You’re not gonna catch them in hypocrisy. There is no hypocrisy when they are just doing whatever they choose to believe their sky dad wants them to.
The relationship is that of a child to a parent.
If a parent constantly tests and judges you, that’s still toxic. Especially when they already know the outcome. Doubly especially when failing the test means not just a spanking but literal eternal torture.
I don’t disagree. But, it’s not like trying to help someone leave a toxic relationship. It’s more like needing to take a child away from an abusive parent. But that abusive parent is inside their head.
It literally is! You’re not God’s “partner”, you’re His creation; you’re not equals as you’re entirely dependent on Him. A little toon or sim that cannot survive without the framework God made around them can only serve his master and be grateful for the opportunity of existence.
Ah but you didn’t complete the thought…
He created us, and then damned us all to eternal damnation and hellfire.
But if you literally worship him exactly how he wants, he might spare you.
And how is that not abusive?
Which is totally not toxic at all
I don’t think this (very fuzzy, seriously, pick a better word, world) word applies. You’re not God’s equal, it’s not an equal relationship. God needs nothing from us, we need everything from God.
If he needs nothing from us, why does he DEMAND so much?
Cuz his daddy didn’t tell him he was proud of him, so now he needs us to glaze his shitty ass. Or else.
(Or he doesn’t exist. Naturalism is a better explanation for kids being born with horrific brain cancer.)
He exists. But only as the stolen thoughts of other more ancient beliefs.
Christianity and later Islam were just the LLMs of their day. Ripping off previous IP, mangling it until it’s barely recognizable from the original and making it worse across the board.
Because for merciful justice to take place not only must the righteous be recognised for it but the ones who refused to be righteous must be also, with all that it entails. If God judged the serial rapist and the victim of rape equally, why would you even take Him seriously? Evidently whoever sees things that way has lost whatever mind they had. So God encourages you to be a good person for your own benefit (and you engage in immorality to your own detriment).
And, btw, in a vacuum everyone besides those who are actually mentally ill or have some brain tumour altering their thinking would see the same. We have the brain, the inner prosocial disposition and understanding of justice (lots of experiments done with infants point to this too), and the time to make these simple moral observations… whatever message God has decided to illuminate even the blindest among us (“why does He demand so much?”) with is just a mercy, an extra nudge in the right direction. This life came for free, be good and live forever in peace. 🙏
You literally said nothing. No answer, just a useless dogmatic diatribe.
Is he NEEDS nothing from me, why does he DEMAND everything?
All of his requirements are demands. Inflexible. And punished for eternity if not meet, unless I know the secret handshake.
How does this fulfill your original assertion?
Again, you’re not demanded, just nudged into the right direction for your own sake (because justice requires payment, one way or another, and God is just), but of course you will do what you will and you will reap what you sow. And there’s nothing secret about righteousness. 🤔
Persecution
You don’t need to be religious to be mentally ill, you can be both or neither. Same with being gay, same with being trans. Idk if being trans by itself constitutes “mental illness” but I’m not about to jump into that rabbit hole.
But I do know you can’t be considered sensible/serious about your religious ideology if you believe an actual “man in the sky” will both judge you for your actions and reward/punish you and also not do so. Men aren’t immortal beings with no needs who can easily survive in the clouds/space/whatever, and you’re either getting judged and paid accordingly or not, it’s not both. Also, the only religious group I ever see actually be persecuted/harassed is Muslims, lol, how did they appropriate that also?!
Also, the only religious group I ever see actually be persecuted/harassed is Muslims, lol, how did they appropriate that also?!
That’s very easy if both your holy book AND everyone around you feeds into your persecution complex…
