- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- technology@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- technology@lemmy.zip
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Wtf is the point in this in the US when you can just go and pick up a gun from the road or a bush or someone’s desk or whatever?
They act like we have this big problem with 3d printed guns. This is about control not safety.
It’s funny, I live in a country with very few privately owned guns, where ammo is tracked and everything.
No 3d printed gun murders have taken place here. Why would they happen in the US where anyone can just get a real gun?
It’s to neutralize “right to repair” work.
“might stop anyone from 3D printing guns”
I can guarantee you that it won’t even do that.
It absolutely won’t do that. You know how many millions of early generation Prusa and Ender 3 printers are in the US? Many of these models have no internet connectivity whatsoever and print from SD card.
What that means is they will also try to incorporate spyware into your CAD and/or slicer software, which is even more invasive.
This is a anti-privacy bill.
It won’t stop anyone buying or importing innocuous machinery parts like 2020 aluminium extrusions or GT2 belts either. There are mature generic 3D printer designs out there that outperforms RepRap i3 bedslingers.
I don’t even understand how they imagine this will work. Most printers are certainly not powerful enough to do real 3d object detection. Even if they forced slicers to include this, just fork OrcaSlicer and take it back out. Actually a lot of printers run open source software as well, so we can just fork klipper of it ever comes to that.
It absolutely will not stop some people. But those are not the ones committing gun crimes
It’s like making a normal printer that’s mandated by the government to never print dicks
I mean normal printers will not let you print money. That’s what gave these idiots the idea to begin with I’d wager. But there are orders of magnitude in difference in difficulty between making a piece of software capable of autonomously recognizing a few existing designs of dollar bills and one that can tell a working gun part that can take a shape that can vary almost infinitely from other objects that can also take nearly infinite shapes.
They don’t recognize bills. They recognize a pattern of tiny yellow rings in the bills, the Eurion constellation, which can barely be seen by the eye. This supposedly will stop copiers and printers from scanning or printing any document that has these.
Bypassing these is trivial.
Are 3d printed guns even a problem? This whole thing is just a way to destroy peoples ability to do anything on their own, or repair anything.
No. It’s made up nonsense, like 99% of justifications for gun laws. The people writing the laws are rarely actually knowledgeable on the subject they’re writing legislation for.
3D printing working, safe-to-handle and durable guns is a pretty complicated technical problem. Don’t need to be a genius to figure out that making 100% plastic guns is asking for trouble. Tiny explosion = big plastic cracky.
Meanwhile, any monkey can bash together pieces of scrap metal and produce a durable gun that way. And that was a thing long, long before 3D printers existed.
3d printed guns aren’t 100% plastic. In fact the only part that’s printed is the only part actually considered a firearm in the US, the receiver. You know, that gun shaped object that Glock themselves make out of plastic. All other parts, barrel, slide, magazine, springs, trigger, etc are all purchased without any controls or background checks and then assembled into a firearm on the 3d printed receiver.
They work amazingly well for what they are and they hold up for many many rounds.
Not nearly as much of a problem as real guns that’s for goddamn sure.
Someone played Watch Dogs and got a-scared.
Wow, they are doing so much to stop guns from getting into the wrong hands. I’m really glad the everyday issue of 3d printed guns will finally be solved.
Wait until they find out that you can make a shotgun with some galvanized pipe and a nail.
So if you 3D print a lathe to make your gun, it’s ok?
This goes way, way beyond ‘guns.’ It is an assault on property rights and freedom of expression as concepts generally. It would fully outlaw Free Software firmware (which is what the entire 3D printer hobby, having started with the RepRap project, is based on!). It would cut the Maker movement as a whole off at the knees.
It’s absolute tyranny in ways entirely unrelated to guns themselves.
It’s a futile and stupid effort funded solely by Bloomberg: The destruction of 3D printing: Bloomberg is behind it - YouTube
This article is disgusting neoliberal disinformation because it hides this simple and easily provable fact. Probably frames it as a debate with pro and contra. But it’s fundamentally moronic.
When you consider how many students were shoot with 3d printed guns… Oh wait, those were all manufactured by a proper business, carry on then, we don’t want to interrupt big businesses.
I’m no gun person, but you could easily make a gun on a lathe or a mill drill, too. Get a CNC one and you don’t even need to know how to use them.
Are we going to start fitting them with “you might be making a gun” detectors, too? Of course not.
Edit: Turns out they are… I choose to blame my ignorance on the paywall.
Are we going to start fitting [CNC lathes and mills] with “you might be making a gun” detectors, too? Of course not.
I’ve got some bad news for you about just how fucked-up these proposed laws actually are.
I’m pretty sure the law says any machine that takes sets of automated instructions, which includes CNC cutters and lathes
You absolutely need to know how to use any machine tool. You can’t just download a file to a CNC mill and have it spit out a gun. I worked as a machinist when I was in college, it takes a lot of skill and talent to setup a CNC to make parts.
You can’t load a file on a 3d printer and print a gun either…
On top of that, making a firearm is %100 legal.
Not in some jurisdictions. Know your local laws!
NY you can as long as you have a FFL or gunsmith license. Both are not super hard to get.
California you can without a license and you can make up to 3 a year.
Yes it is 100% legal, I’ve done it myself. And there are actually single shot pistols you can download and print.
I’m not in anyway in favor of the legislation, just pointing out that machining a functioning anything isn’t as easy as you said.
It’s not 100% legal in some places. Know your local laws!
Even in NY it is %100 legal still, you have to print it with a serial and you must be licensed by the state to make a firearm (FFL or gunsmith).
Those still require metal parts. No plastic is going to have enough strength to be used as a firing pin.
Not in California ever since they passed that bill that requires a DOJ-issued serial number on your home made firearm.
Nope, you can still make up to 3 firearms a year in California without a FFL license.
I know. I meant relative to using a manual machine.
You could make the same argument for 3D printers.
Have you tried using an agentic AI?
Because people are already doing exactly that.
They’re using agentic ai to autonomously program, physically setup and gauge, and then run parts? Where are they doing this and who are “people”?
Idk when you were in college, but tormach has come a long way with automation. It wouldn’t surprise me if someone had automated paths & tool changes and was able to pump out gun parts without much human intervention.
Once the machine is set up yes, they can absolutely do that. That’s how they’re manufactured for the most part.
But the idea that any untrained, inexperienced person has the ability to physically setup, make jigs, indicate in said jigs, make a cad file, turn it into a cam program, load it into a machine, indicate in the stock, select the correct tooling and set it up, etc, etc, etc… It’s a magnitude more difficult than 3d printing, and the machines that do that kind of fully automated work costs in the millions.
Honestly, the only difference would be the jigs and clamping, and making sure the tools are in the correct loading bay/socket. Everything else can be done by a 3rd party and distributed like it is with 3d printing. even the stock can be pre selected, it’s not any different than recommending abs over nylon or tpu.
I think the difference in magnitude only applies to the price of the machine.
What’s you background? Do you work with or operate machinery?
What kinda old ass 1900s grade equipment are you working with?
I’m not trying to be a dick, I just want to know if I’m talking to a layman or a professional.
New laws in California and New York might stop people from 3D printing guns
It absolutely, positively, will not do that. If someone wants to print a gun, no legislation is going to stop them. It could at best, slow them down by maybe an hour, as they find, download and install different firmware for their printer.
If you want to prevent people from printing guns, you’ll need a different tactic, because that won’t do it.
Gosh, if only it were illegal to manufacture and sell weapons without a license, then we wouldn’t need all this.
Arm the Proletariat
I’ve been telling people to arm and practice for more than 10 years.
No, definitely not. There’s a guy on YouTube that has videos on 3d printed guns, I bet he has info on how to use them safely.
I would not practice with a 3d printed gun; they last like 3 shots, if even?
I rember in the US police had an event where in an effort that has had some success getting guns off the street is they were paying $200 per gun you turned in, including ghost guns no questions asked. Some legend heard about the event and quickly made quite a few working guns out of 2"x4"s, metal plumbing pipe, and a nail. He only used basic tools like a drill and angle grinder from what I remember. The police had to pay him too, but I think they changed the rules after
One problem the left especially the global left outside the US has when they talk about gun control they flat out do not understand how things work when so many people want something as much as people want guns in the US. Also how hard it would be to actually change the constitution. They were not able to stop people smoking weed or drinking alcohol either. It’s going to have to be a major societal shift. I think there’s a good chance we will see that in the next 50 years.
I support gun control wherever it’s shown to actually work but a lot laws are being pushed by either someone with an alternative motive like the 3D printer laws, or have actually no clue and just want to put another law that sounds good to
The 3D printer laws are really a micro manufacturing and surveillance law that appears to be being pushed by a billionaire and a company in bed with palantir. It could kill open source 3d printers that are the only reason we have 3d printers in the first place. The guns people make with 3D printers require major components from actual guns that you can leagly buy because the parts are not considered a gun.
Please stop conflating Democrats with “the left.”
Democrats are centrists or even center-right. Actual leftists tend to be just as gun-happy as conservatives. Both for protection from those conservatives, and because Marx was pretty explicit about the proletariat needing to revolt.
I’m well aware of that. That’s why I said global left and not democrats. Global leftists meaning the generally left average for the globe. In my opinion most of the global left is out of touch with the US’s gun problem. Where do you see me saying Democrats?
iirc some of the parts you need like the lower are considered guns, but your point still stands. the last paragraph, i mean. it’d just surveillance state horseshit with the added benefit of protecting corporate profits in an industry that was developed with public funds and innovation.
This is just the dumbest thing ever… So I can’t print a grip for a camera?
Uhhh nope. Palantir said so
