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Remember the Republican reaction when Obama did the same thing in Libya?
Reeeeeee! 72 hours to get our approval or we’ll impeach you! Reeeeeee! Not authorized! Not funded!
Then when our embassy there… in Benghazi… was attacked… it was years of “Reeeee! Why didn’t you DO something!!!”
After they stripped embassy security funding for it, naturally.
Is Ben Gazi the talented buttery male I hear so much about?
All part of Hillary’s plan to whip up support for war.
Another terrorist group fucks around and finds out.
War is not something to glorify. It’s unfortunate that the situation with Israel/Palestine, Saudis/Iran, and Houthis/US escalated to this point.
Another terrorist group fuck around and innocent people find out.
The last war declared by Congress was
Korea in the early 1950sin WW2. Dark Brandon doesn’t have time for this foolishness. Yemen was warned again and again. They’ve now entered the find out stage.edit: brain worms
Yemen has been getting bombed by Saudi Arabia with the full backing of the US for almost a decade now, creating one of the worst humanitarian crises still ongoing. You’re right about the brain worms, but it’s not because you goofed up the last war declared by congress. Dumb Brandon is not cool for continuing the status quo with the military industrial complex.
The last war by US Congress was declared in June 1942, against Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania. US Congress has not made a formal declaration of war since then.
Corrected. Thanks.
Ww2, Korea was never declared.
Does a formal declaration of war matter?
The Wikipedia entry for the Korean War mentions Congress allocating money for the war effort within the month after US got involved. That certainly appears to be Congressional approval.
And the US response was after a UN resolution calling for it, giving some legitimacy
Corrected. Thanks.
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Oh fuck off with this tired propaganda line. After Korea we did Vietnam as a “police action” and then Congress filled in the semantic loop hole with the War Powers Act. Which governs how we go to war now. If we need to fight an actual war then Congress has to pass an AUMF, Authorization to Use Military Force.
Every action since Vietnam has either fallen into the 60 day period presidents are allowed for emergencies or an AUMF. Congress has absolutely been exercising it’s war powers. This stupid fucking lie gets trotted out by the far left and the far right for different uses and I’m done hearing it.
Biden when Americans need help:
I’m just a president I can’t do anything without Congress!
Biden when far right ethnostate wants to do another genocide in the Middel East:
Fuck congress, I’m a president! Vote trump if you don’t like it.
Motherfucker is 80 years old and has no idea what he’s doing. We deserve better than our only two options
I guess you don’t know this, but there are, in fact, different limitations in what the President can do.
When it comes to military action, Congress gave the President essentially blanket authority to do anything that can be even remotely connected to “fighting terrorism”, so this is not in any way a “Fuck Congress” moment. If Congress wants to withdraw that authority and actually do its job again, it can do that at literally any time.
Are you familiar with the term “Commander in Chief”?
Did you miss when Biden was (rightly) criticizing trump for going around Congress for strikes like this and Biden said no president should ever do that…
And now he’s doing it?
His entire campaign is “I’m not trump”, but he acts more like him everyday. And I don’t expect him to turn it around after he wins the last election of his 60 year political career.
That’s one hell of a false equivalent. Trump killed a senior government official of a regional powerhouse without provocation. Biden is responding to provocations against US and Allied shipping.
But you go on with your both sides bullshit.
Today I learned that what biden did right now is genocide. You keep using it like that and people will never take the word seriously again. You actively harm your cause to make literally everything genocide.
I agree with you but that is also the legal framework we gave him to work with.
Some progressives need to put down the flowers and smoke some bad guys now and then. Conservatives need to cram their sabers up their own asses and die.
I’ll take soft progressives over the other any day of the week, but demanding Congressional approval is fucking absurd right now. It’ll take 8 months and be filled with unrelated laws, financial packages for Ohio and Texas, and pro-oil deregulation.
Not to mention, having foreseen exactly this problem previous representatives passed the War Powers Act. Biden absolutely has the authority to blow shit up. He can do it without any reason or other authority for 60 days. Then he has 30 days to remove American troops from that area. (Or return force levels to where they were)
So you want more executive power? … almost like that the president can do things without Congress?
… boom dictatorship.
There’s a line, idk what it should be but it should be.
No, but have the power to make quick action against small threats via airstrike and missile strikes shouldn’t need the end endless hem and haw from a bunch of clowns.
Implying Biden “took us into war” in Yemen? Because we’ve been bombing them for decades.
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Dropping bombs is an act of war, so yes. I guess the de jure, internationally recognized state of Yemen approves of the bombings, but the de facto state run by the Houthis is at war with the US.
Of course, the Houthis have committed acts of war first by violating the rights of the sea, so take that as you will.
Iran is a whole ass country, the Houthis are a rebel faction, for lack of a better term. I think this whole situation is kinda different… Matter of opinion I guess…
Houthis are the de facto government of Yemen which is important because the US is claiming the right to self defence which is only available between states.under international law. That’s why for example Israel’s argument of self defence is nonsense because Gaza is not a separate country.
How many countries recognize the authority of the Houthis in Yemen?
The Houthis are only considered a rebel faction because the US said so. I don’t exactly like them but they’re basically the government of Yemen.
They’re a rebel faction that controls most of the country, including the capital. It’s different, but they’re a lot closer to a government than something like Hezbollah.
But don’t you get it?!
Biden’s last name isnt trump, and he has a D by his name. Obviously expecting any other diffences mean you hate America…
The Democrats (except for Biden) aren’t being hypocritical here. They objected to both Trump and Biden.
And? Trump assassinated a senior government official with zero authorization or provocation. This is clearly not the same thing.
Let’s be clear: trump being a pile of shit doesn’t give biden license to be almost as shitty.
Sure. But these are not the same actions. Defending shipping interests has been a legitimate cause for military force ever since humanity invented shipping.
hey I’m from the future. you won’t believe what happened.
They might have a stronger case if they haven’t proven to be a ‘do nothing’ Congress. They can’t even put together a budget.
Congress signed over the rights to just do war crimes whenever you feel like it back under Reagan.
Now the President can do the thing, Congress can call a hearing to complain about it, elections happen, power changes hands, and the only people who suffer are the ones getting bombed.
It’s not a war crime to return fire if fired upon.
“He bombed me back first”
Targeting of civilians and civilian infrastructure, mass arrests and forced removal of native populations, and indiscriminate use of chemical weapons are all war crimes. Hell, use of cluster bombs and mines have been recognized as war crimes since the mid-90s, and yet the US is the world’s largest manufacturer and distributor of both.
So, nobody should be held accountable for firing on a US Navy ship sailing in international waters?
Of course someone should be held responsible. So fling a few bombs up in the air and declare anyone they land on “enemy combatants” and then we can say justice was served.
So, nobody should be held accountable for the US eagerly aiding Israel in its quest of genocide? Also, the US has been helping Saudi Arabia bomb the Houthis for almost a decade now and have created a humanitarian crisis in Yemen.
Shooting at international shipping isn’t holding anyone accountable unless you hate shipping corporations. And yeah if you shoot at the military (any military) don’t be surprised when they shoot back.
It’s clearly made the US take notice (since they care more about trade than people’s lives), so mission accomplished. How else do you propose they do it, given the limited resources they have? Take it up with the UN, where the US vetoes any resolution against israel?
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The US no longer makes leave in place mines. They are all command detonated. That was a Clinton thing. The cluster bombs… We’re actually phasing them out of our arsenal. However the US maintains they’re legal as long as they’re not used in urban areas. Largely because Russia and China still use them and they’re very effective. We’d need to get them seriously on board to actually stop making cluster munitions.
The US no longer makes leave in place mines. They are all command detonated.
We continue to use them on the Korean divide, probably the most heavily mined place on earth. And while we’ve definitely updated our arsenal, I would not bet my life on the reliability of these ostensibly more advanced systems.
The cluster bombs… We’re actually phasing them out of our arsenal.
Sure. By selling them to our allies.
Largely because Russia and China still use them and they’re very effective.
Well, they’re cheap by tonnage, which is why the Russians love them. But they’re also unreliable, which is what makes them so dangerous. They don’t always detonate where they land, and that makes them function as land mines after the fact. They are only “effective” in the sense that they’re explosive devices that litter a large area.
As to China, when was the last time they bombed anyone? Like, at all? To my knowledge, the Chinese haven’t been involved in a war since they signed a peace deal with Vietnam in the 70s. The closest we’ve seen has been police actions along border territories (Xinjiang getting a bunch of jihadist spillover from Afghanistan, slap fights with Indian border guard counterparts, etc). Who have they been dropping cluster bombs on, in living memory even?
The DMZ landmines have been there for 70 years and de-mining that would come with serious risks of sniper attacks, ambushes, and nuclear war. Yeah it really ramps up that quick over there. All we need is for the Hermit King to think we’re clearing breach routes and Seoul goes up. So yeah we’re not removing those.
Even under the Trump administration we’re sticking to “non-permanent” landmines. The most prominent and widespread of which is the command activated claymore.
Most of our allies are also getting rid of cluster bombs. And when Ukraine specifically asked for them we hesitated to sell them. The reason we did so is because of parity in that war. And while they aren’t reliable enough to leave the area safe of UXO, they are extremely reliable at destroying military equipment.
China matters because they’re constantly threatening military action.
So are they going to repeal the War Powers Act? Are we going back to needing a Declaration of War to deal with every pissant pirate?
Not the pirates of pissants? Have they try singing to distract them?
Houthi and the Blowfish
It would be a good start, yes.
No, it wouldn’t. A straight repeal of the War Powers Act also opens us up to another Vietnam. And amending it such that any use of force requires congressional approval would put us in an international straight jacket. From defending our shipping interests to protecting allies. In the event of China deciding it would rather just take existing islands to make it’s “nine dashed line” a reality, we’d be arguing about immigration instead of deploying the Navy. And we would instantly lose the trade access we have to the entirety of the SEA region.
We tried isolationism. It didn’t work.
Asking Congress is a surefire way to get nothing done.
Maybe that’s a good default stance when the topic is war.
Limited war is always a tricky topic. Where do you draw the line between a full on war and making the seas safe for trade,
Luckily, the aftermath of the Vietnam War gave us an answer. The War Powers Act. Which gives the president authority to use the military in situations exactly like this. If he tries to turn it into a big thing, then it has to go in front of Congress.
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That’s not what they’re doing. They’re firing at any ship they believe even has a Western financial stake in it. No matter where it’s going or what it’s carrying. It could be taking Italian tractors to Somalia to encourage local farming as part of an aid program and they would fire at it.
Humanitarian aid and addressing the reason they are taking up arms.
The Houthis took up arms because of Iranian backing and Yemeni local politics. The Western countries aren’t solving that any time soon. And they’re already receiving HA.
Isn’t fighting piracy like legal for everyone? Like a private citizen or any country’s military could go out there and hunt pirates. I remember that from when the somali pirates got yeeted.
None of these representatives objected to us sinking boats involved in piracy operations. They’re objecting to attacks on land against a group that is pretty close to a government. There’s some point at which on-land operations turn from being defending against piracy to regime change. Which may be warranted, but should be decided by Congress.
I’m pretty sure you can attack the pirates when they get back on land too.
Not if they have one foot on home base. No backsies!
I think that’s a baseball reference I’m too european to get
Ha I see why you might think so but I was referring to “neighborhood rules” for kids’ games like Tag. We’d often designate a light pole or a car as “home base” and you couldn’t be tagged as “It” if you were touching it.
I hope you play tag in Europe or else this didn’t make sense either lol
Ah instead a game I’m either too old to remember or too woman to have played. It does sound vaguely familiar though.
Then Congress needs to add that to the War Powers Act.
The AUMF probably also actually has given him the right to do this.
No AUMF required to bonk pirates. It’s the national version of self defense.
There are no laws in international waters.
You underestimate the reach of US law. Also, the “Law of the Sea” clearly applies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea
There are laws that govern Antarctica, Outer Space, the Moon, etc. International waters are just less regulated, but there are definitely laws.
Oh yeah the infighting is getting bad. Get ready for an absolute terrible election season for the Democrats.
I’m seeing “leftists” using the same vocabulary as Q-anon style crazy morons. The vitriol is being spat like no matter what their isn’t a right answer and it’s not made better by the fact that we as a country are still basically pushing for all the worse aspects of ourselves because it’s what feels normal.
People are all gonna join in to help burn it down and think they will be the kings of the ashes but largest organized group is gonna be the real victor and it’s for sure as hell not the self hating left.
Maybe I will be wrong and the vote against method will work again but if it does we need to make some hard turns to get things actually getting better and get some companionship happening or it will just be a bloodbath between factions that wanted their scoop of the ashes.
It is interesting/sad just how hard Biden is sticking to the old ways of doing things even though most people seem to have moved on from that way of thinking.
*“Most people” applies only to lemmygrad, lemmy.ml and some college campuses.
Seriously - people dramatically overestimate how much has changed.
It’s because these “leftists” are right wing trolls. Full stop. This “Genocide Joe” shit in particular is so fucking transparently a trump-style attack it’s laughable. Leftist spaces on the internet are so far up their own reactionary assholes they are now actively protecting far right propagandists and calling it left unity.
Yeah I actually got banned from a “leftist” sub (r/latestagecapitalism on Reddit) because I called out a literal right wing propaganda post from a literal maga mouthpiece that was a lie.
And the mod responded with:
We don’t work with the Demo-kkk-rats
Like a literal fascist response because it makes their dick hard to feel like they are standing up to the bad guys while supporting the end of democracy. Neat. Not a leftist.
So Israel is going to colonize Gaza, and the US is going to take Yemen?
What could possibly go wrong?
I don’t think it’s his actions that are the problem. I think it is WHO did them that is the problem which can be seen by the charge being led by the infamous Rashida Talib from Michigan.
Congressman Ro Khanna:
I am so glad Khanna isn’t getting the Senate seat. If this was just his opinion and he was advocating for changing the War Powers Act, great. But he presents it as legal fact when it really isn’t.
The legislative branch has been busted for so long that they literally ceded power to go to war to the executive for the good of the nation. Y’all can feel free to undo that at any time once you’re not completely broken.
Last I heard, the AUMFs were still active. Assuming that was used to justify this legally.
No need. The War Powers Act 30 Day emergency powers clearly apply.
