When will the liberal party pass the electoral reform they were elected to pass?
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They will with enough pressure. This negative attitude is useless.
Pressure as it “voting for other people” and “nationwide general strike” or pressure as in “Thoughts and prayers” online?
Because the first isn’t going to happen, as evident by this election, and the second hasn’t achieved anything so far, and will continue to achive nothing because it isn’t actually pressure.
That’s such a strawman as I have never said to “only vote.” There are many things people can do to pressure the government.
I didn’t say you said to only vote. I said voting out the current two parties is unrealistic.
So what do you propose we do that will convince the government to give up their power, short of voting them out or a general strike?
I said voting out the current two parties is unrealistic.
It worked in Quebec, the bloc supplanted the conservatives and liberals in many of their ridings. We need to have more regional parties and a larger push for proportional representation from the conservatives and liberals. Blue and Red are only so powerful thanks to our donations, volunteering and positive reinforcements. Take that away and they will be shells of their formerselves.
You do realize the block lost a third of their seats? The whole problem with the current system is that unless you can get the entirely country to simultaneously change who they back, you just further entrench whichever party is worse. Your solution boils down to, “Get people to support smaller parties instead.” That doesn’t work in a two party system, as evidenced by the current condition of our voting system, and by every other FPTP country out there.
The only way the current system changes is an organized, country-wide show of resistance that actually hurts the rich and powerful. This probably means a general strike. Unfortunately, people aren’t going to be willing to rock the boat until things start to get unlivable, and by that point extremists and grifters will be firmly entrenched and will seize power instead.
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Ahh, here’s the tankie…
You’re responsible for Donald Trump getting elected because you just focused on attacking democrats relentlessly then foolishly claimed that voting is “pointless”
Get out of here with your authoritarian tendencies.
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Thats the fun part, they never do. Then we Anarchists get blamed for not voting hard enough
Its a stretch but I’m hoping with a liberal minority there is chance the NDP could advocate for electoral reform as negotiation point. Its a stretch but I feel like its the only way it could happen.
how come no one remembers that WE had a referendum for voting reform and WE voted it down? everyone keeps blaming the liberals when it was the dumb ass population who fucked that up.
I’m Indigenous and I have family and friends who live throughout the north.
I couldn’t believe the recent Ontario election for the representative for Mushkegowuk-James Bay … the NDP candidate won it by 9 votes
And I have a ton of people in all those northern communities who all don’t vote because none of them believe that it is worth it because they are Native.
Please show them these margins. it’s crazy to me how small the number of votes are per riding and really puts everything into perspective
I’m in a riding that is consistently held by the conservatives, and not by a small amount. There are something like 40-50k votes cast in my riding and the difference between lib and conservative was about 6k.
I still go out and vote, because some day the 6k difference might be 12 individual votes…
If the conservatives win by a handful of votes, and I didn’t vote, I don’t think I could forgive myself.
I heard that there were some communities where voting closed super early. Under circumstances like that, I can sympathise with people who feel that there’s no point in voting; there were people who went out to vote but weren’t able to, and that must be so demoralising
Those anarchists, tankies, fascists and authoritarians who claim this are just trying to sabotage democracy.
Or it’s people who feel disenfranchised.
Not voting makes it easier for politicians to ignore them.
If they feel disenfranchised, they are probably already ignored.
That’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
Or a pat answer to give to disenfranchised people you don’t want represented. “If we’re ignoring you it’s because you’re not involved enough!”
Those people could also set up their own regional party to get their voices better heard in parliament like the bloc have successfully done, I’m not saying to “only vote.”
There’s always some new criterion for not being ignored.
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anarchists, tankies, fascists and authoritarians
Spot the odd one out!
I’ve definitely seen anarchists describe frustration with electoral politics, especially when people limit their political engagement to simply voting once every so many years. However, I’ve never seen one advocate against voting.
Anarchists are generally aware that, despite elections not being the thing that will overthrow the bourgeoisie, some parties result in less suffering for oppressed peoples than others.
Libs will do anything they can to avoid understanding anti-electoralism
There’s a long history of anarchists who oppose voting
https://libcom.org/article/why-anarchists-dont-vote-elisee-reclus
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/aotearoa-workers-solidarity-movement-why-we-don-t-vote
https://apps.lib.umich.edu/online-exhibits/exhibits/show/debatedemocracy/anarchism---anti-voting
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That’s not an actual argument I’ve ever heard and I’m an anarchist myself, it usually goes more like:
Voting is a waste of time especially the more disenfranchised you are, mutual aid lasts longer and does more for people around you in the short term, in the long term you can build community get organized, and bargain for more than what simply voting can get you.
Personally that’s not a bad argument, see I’m living in Israel and my town’s going through gentrification, and the state I’m living under is fascist and the fascism is so normalized, not because of people like me refusing to vote, but because of liberals who were never so different from the fascists, constantly giving them ground, always bargaining for the bare minimum.
The only people actually getting anything done that is remotely positive are activists, like the people protesting to stop the genocide, and getting involved physically with sabotaging fascist efforts to stop humanitarian aid from getting into gaza.
Or at least that’s how it was months ago, i haven’t found it in me to listen to the news on quite a while, so what do i know.
Congratulations on four more years of a milktoast centrist liberal, is he going to acturally fix the problems? Or is he going to be like Biden and make the big talk of peace and prosperity while sending weapons to fund genocide?
Unlike his Conservative opponent, Carney has a resume of fixing problems more than talking. He has done a lot of talking during the campaign, as one should to get elected, now Canadians have a part in holding him to account as PM.
What has he done? All I know about the Canadian Liberals is that like the American liberals they have a long history of promises and a short history of keeping them.
His headline accomplishments are leading the Bank of Canada as governor, keeping Canada out of the worst of the 08 recession, then helped ease the fall of UK’s economy post-Brexit, then in his short 1st term as Prime Minister taking over from Trudeau, he managed to shut Trump up about the 51st state stuff for nearly a month, after just one call.
I have the feeling that you would be inclined to deny the distinction between the Biden presidency and the trump presidency that followed it.
Fundamentally Trump would not have gotten anywhere without decades of milqtoast ineffective liberals and corrupt milquetoast politicans, the Democrats are at direct fault for this. They built the conditions where people demanded something new and they gave them more of the same. They fought the left viciously while giving up the fight against fascism.
Are you in any way able to criticise Trump or the Republican party directly, or for you is public enemy number 1 the Democratic Party?
People dont hold the Republicans to any real standard because we all agree they’re just cartoonishly evil. Democrats can be critiqued because they have an actural ideology that can be pinned down (which I very strongly disagree with). Republicans meanwhile don’t really belive in anything of substance, they sorta just hate people and blindly eat up corporate propaganda (hell they call themselves conservatives yet their definition of conservative values are basically defined exclusively as whatever the hell Reagan did)
And in your view, is it better for America to have a Democrat in the Whitehouse or not really?
Better is a strange choice of words here, better compared to what? Better compared to Republicans? Better compared to the Social Democratic parties of Canada and Europe? Or better compared to a real workers party? Because so far it seems like you have done nothing but attempt to twist my words to make up your own preconceived conclusions about leftists that has very little basis in reality.
FYI the word you’re so desperate to use is milquetoast, not milktoast.
I live in Illinois. If somehow the heavens and earth move such that Illinois turned red, then there would be absolutely zero chance it would be the tipping point in the presidential election. The vast majority of people in the US live in safe states.
And for the record, I do vote in down-ballot races, the ones that actually matter, but none of you care because it’s all about genuflecting before the leader of the blue tribe. Which, frankly, just gives me more reason to refuse to.
“Democracy” doesn’t need our help to be sabotaged, it’s falling apart on it’s own. Every time someone says that the voters have to change en masse to meet the policies of politicians rather than politicians having to respond to what their constituents want, they are the ones taking the axe to democracy. Why the hell would anyone care about upholding or defending a system that we have no say in? Somehow, insisting on popular demands and trying to turn the will of the people into policies that protect the rights of the vulnerable gets translated into “trying to sabotage democracy” equating Anarchists and Marxists alike with fascists.
Yeah, so the Conservatives won with like 80% in my riding. I voted, but I also wondered why while doing it. Man, I wish we had proportional rep.
In your riding? Is canada just larping yorkshire?
I mean, at least York is.
We also call the Conservatives Tories, and if you do crimes you get charged by the Crown.
TIL. Glad to see at least one canadian has some sense of humor.
Yikes, I see what you mean. Lemmy is feeling touchy today.
Any time someone claims “my one vote doesn’t matter” I reply with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_close_election_results
Yes, there are a lot of elections that are decided by a very small number of votes.
As the saying goes: “The only wasted vote is the one left uncast.”
- Wayne Gretzky
Fuck that guy
Canada out there making us feel jealous with their “multiple parties” and “meaningful votes”
I’m worried our multiple parties could disappear after this election :( I understand why it happened but I hope the trend doesn’t continue to a two party liberal vs conservative system in Canada
The Bloc isn’t going anywhere and the NDP will likely gain seats back next election with a fresh leader, especially if they pick a charismatic one.
Ya I don’t think it will. Also remember we started with a two-party system. Political parties come and go.
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Voting did make a difference. But sometimes brain damage turns people into fascists. Can’t control that. Can’t not vote because it could happen.
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Where do you think I live? 😂
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Keep dreaming. There’s only 2 parties that matter, Nazis and thieves. Everybody else Is just cosplaying
Yeah, there were a lot of close ones this time.
35 difference in Terrebonne riding in QC, Liberals won.
I have family in this riding so I was watching it closely. It was very nerve-racking to see how close it was. It was conservative several times while they were finishing counting all the votes.
