Brett Wilkins Jun 16, 2025
Flight-tracking websites showed dozens of Air Force aerial refueling planes departing from military bases in the United States and heading to Europe on Sunday, fueling speculation of direct U.S. involvement in the widening Israeli-Iranian war.
Military-focused news sites reported that around 30 U.S. Air Force KC-135R and KC-46A tankers were identified by flight-tracking software in what The Times of Israelcalled an “unprecedented mass deployment” to Europe.
We just want fucking healthcare and affordable housing.
Sorry, best I can do is 2 trillion more for Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin and the like. They’re desperate man, they haven’t had a war for like 12 minutes, they need to be fed.
Zomg, Boeing planes being flown above enemy territory as surprise kamikazes (surprise to the pilots & crew).
Best the turnip can do is a gold colored overpriced shit phone.
Not to worry, it’s made in china, shipped from china, and then people in detention centers will be forced by ICE to package it for that bonus fascism feel for those that believe it’s made in the US and and they’re getting a deal on the T-Mobile package that costs almost 2x other providers for the same service.
And human rights. Due process. Rule of law and respect the constitution. Less inflation. More progress on our environment. Rebuild some infrastructure. Invest in some technologies of the future rather than the past. Leadership that understands basic economics and actually the art of the deal
Other Americans just want fucking guns and affordable discrimination. It’s a sad day.
Best we can do is give more people PTSD and then deny them disability or treatment for it. America loves dead soldiers, we can’t go too long without having a new batch.
You had a chance at that in Zuck’s metaverse…
Best I can do is a Trump smartphone.
Be that as it may, we also only seem to vote for people that we know aren’t going to actually do what they say, except on the issue of immigration.
We just want fucking healthcare and affordable housing.
Trumps response is to offer army barracks and MREs, in exchange for you becoming cannon fodder in his delusional war games.
Yeah. Unfortunately it’s been obvious to a lot of us for awhile that it would only come from the ashes of this country.
God I hate Republicans.
Trump is absolute garbage on every single scale and stat, but it’s the republican voters who got us here. Fuck every republican voter.
Let’s not pretend that the Democrats wouldn’t also side with Israel
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What got us here is the same two parties cycling in power for a century. If you believe war is red fault alone and that voting blue will change anything, you are part of the problem.
It’s really Democrats and independents who got you there. Unconvinced ones, though. Republicans did what they do, just enough Democrats and independents stayed at home.
If they feel safe leaving their homes, you’ve failed.
So much for keeping the US out of war…
I can’t believe he’d just… Lie to us like we’re a court, Congress or himself or something.
I noticed you didn’t say anything about a wife/ex-wife
There has never been a decade in the entire history of the US in which it has not been at war. Come to think of it, there are probably like 10 years total, over 250, where there was not direct military action. I think. Have not recently checked the spreadsheet I keep.
Something like 17 years total.
That means that for 222 out of 239 years – or 93% of the time – America has been at war. (We can quibble with the exact numbers, but the high percentage of time that America has been at war is clear and unmistakable.)
Machines gotta eat
And shareholders gotta profit.
Yes we are a shithole country
Trump wants to try for an illegal third term and he thinks that being in the middle of a war will help his chances. “Don’t change horses mid-stream” or whatever bullshit.
i mean that’s definitely what’s keeping netanyahu in power, and what makes him want to keep all of their wars going
so if it works for netanyahu it will work for trump
Slowing weapons production??? While there are still citizens to vaporize to manufacture consent for yet more war???
I didn’t call it, but there’s nothing quite like a war to distract the population from rampant decline at home.
This one is weird though, Iran is allied with Russia. Israel is allied with the US. Historically, this made sense.
But Trump and Putin playing war together would benefit both of them. It allows Putin to pull out of Ukraine because “Iran provided us much help and they need us now.” And it allows Russia to maintain the war economy. It benefits Trump because he wants to play war.
Neither leader would have any actual skin in the game, it’s just people’s lives that would never contribute in another meaningful way to their power.
I don’t like this. This is feeling more 1984 than 1984.
Edit: I like this even worse after I read the specifics of the KC-135R and KC-46A. Each can carry about 200,000 lbs of additional fuel. A single F-15E can hold 13,000 lbs internally. 30 KC-135Rs can refuel an entire F-15E 460 times. Israel has 7 KC-130H (60,000lbs) and 7 Boeing 707s (which is what the KC-135 was based on). This isn’t just escalation, this is staging for invasion.
The nice thing about Americans going to war is that it reduces the amount of dodge owners drag racing late at night. Silver linings.
yea its a distraction from all the protests, its really making him look bad, but he has the msms focusing on this instead, plus he was using the parade and the shootings as another distraction as well. right now the news practically ignoring the protests. using the. BANNER strategy, flood the MSM with so much crap its hard to focus on one thing. its also known as the firehose of falsehood which is a Russian strategy for propaganda.
Sounds like personal beef.
Before COVID, 2020 started off with Trump drone striking a foreign diplomat and nearly starting WW3.
Both Putin and Trump are approaching dead-ends in their current campaigns. This ICE stuff can’t end well for him with so many people out last weekend, and Putin is well stuck in Ukraine, as you say. Whilst they may not be personally interested in the future of Iran and them having nukes by itself, they may need this to save their skin, actually.
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Not to mention that this gives him a legitimate reason to invoke the alien enemies act, not that he needed them in the first place, but it will tie up the courts even further.
Neither leader would have any actual skin in the game, it’s just people’s lives that would never contribute in another meaningful way to their power.
Cold War 2: now with more stupid!
Come on now, you don’t need to invoke some BlueAnon conspiracy to explain why the US would attack Iran; it’s been champing at the bit to do so for decades.
They hope Iran does something, that warrants NATOs article 5 to be triggered. Either the other Nato countries follow along, weakening Europe, or they don’t, which basically desolves NATO and thus, weakening Europe.
No one in Europe still counts on the US in case of an article 5 situation
It allows Putin to pull out of Ukraine
Why would Putin pull out of Ukraine? Russia is currently advancing and has a much better position in this war of attrition, and the more it keeps gaining, the better the “peace terms” will be in the end. Putin’s not fearing for his next term since elections in Russia are manipulated, the Russian economy is alive and well, and in military terms he’s in no hurry
I’d just like to take this opportunity to say “fuck you” to all the service people flying these planes, planning the logistics, and otherwise operating at the behest of our sadistic federal government. Sure, the civilian leadership is ultimately at fault here, but y’all are humans with agency. I’m no longer carving out culpability from these goddamn people anymore. Fuck you terrorists. If we escalate yet another war, I’ll plan to spit on you when you arrive back broken and dead. Bring on the downvotes.
It’s been decades that our military has been nothing but an imperialist boot. There is no moral ground to stand on in signing up. Work fast food.
But fast food won’t guarantee housing or healthcare. Military recruitment preys on those with nowhere else to go.
“Housing.” As in a cot to sleep on? You can get the same at a homeless shelter or by landing yourself in jail.
“Healthcare.” Hm yes the military has a great reputation for taking care of the folks maimed in the line of duty after they’ve sent them into harm’s way. Don’t join the army for your health, y’all!
No like, base housing, or a housing allowance. As for healthcare I see your point and yes that’s a travesty. But my daughter was born in a hospital and I paid zero dollars for prenatal care and her birth. So. That’s what I meant.
Now we’re saying that it’s ethical to join the military because they’ll pay for you to have a baby. Is that really a serious argument?
None of this was meant as an argument to join up, just stating facts in relation to my experience, and how the logic could folllow for some in desperate situations. It sucks to feel like you have to join the military because the starting line is 100 paces ahead of you. All of it sucks my dude. My original point was that recruiters prey on desperation, remember? It’s just up there ⬆️⬆️
Decades implies that it once (in USAs history) wasn’t so, which is false. The rest of it if very true tho.
I’m being generous. I mean the revolutionary and civil wars weren’t exactly imperialism. But you’re right there are older examples to be sure. Like what we did to Mexico.
Centuries*
How hard is it to just not kill others?
Apparently really fucking hard for some.
Instead of “thank you for your service” I guess we’ll have to start saying, “fuck you for your service”
Considered that american wars after world war 2 is war of agressions never say thank for your service to any soldier
The nuremberg defense didn’t work for the nazis, why should it work for zionists?
Completely
differentthe fuckin same
I was thinking the same about the national guard deployed to LA.
I was hoping to find at least one article that focuses more on that part, but until then: what you said.
We - everywhere - need to talk about soldiers as people, not “the military”.
I think there’s a huge difference between serving in a military controlled by a healthy democracy, and serving in a military controlled by an authoritarian regime.
Several weeks ago you could forgive someone for not realising that Trump is the latter, but not really any more.
weeks
I think you misspelled years
If your job is to support a government that murders children you are a criminal and a coward
This is basic dictator playbook, problems in domestic politics, start a war and problems change to foreign policy.
Putin has done this multiple times now, and Trump is following up.
This is why I say Canada, Greenland, and Mexico are not safe. Added to the fact that all 3 countries have lots of resources the US needs.
Don’t forget panama
If the US ever try to take out the Panama channel it would fuck up bigly international commerce. Basically only the US military is going to use it because no insurance company is going to cover ships going through them, and without insurance ships can’t even leave port.
Not take out. Take over. And therefore control said trade.
Wouldn’t this cause catastrophic domestic problems though. I think the US would tear itself apart trying to go to war with either of those three. Greenland perhaps less-so but still incredibly distasteful.
They won’t defend their own democracy. They won’t defend mine.
Putin has done this multiple times now, and Trump is following up.
The United Russia party has had a chokehold on Russian elections practically since the day the USSR was dismantled.
There’s a lot more to their socio-economic dominance than Russia just starting new wars. RU controls the national media, they have deep roots in petrochemicals and finance and real estate, they’re mobbed up, they have control of the military across the officer’s corps, and they’re embedded all through local government.
Putin could be the biggest peacenik hippie in Russia and that party wouldn’t budge from its perch.
He’s doing these wars because he’s fascist. Not because he’s doing 11D politics chess.
Starting a war isn’t really 11D thing, it is more like “me big army, me attack” vibe. Even the orange orangutan can figure that one out.
Russia has two exports, fossil energy and war. They know nothing else.
Putin and his party are one and the same.
Russia has two exports, fossil energy and war.
Russia is the only country left with a functioning space program. Also, one of the few remaining virgin steel manufacturers, in large part thanks to their domestic supply of iron and cheap energy. And, like Ukraine, it is a major regional breadbasket (one of the knock on effects of the war has been a one-two punch to cereal exports into Africa and the Middle East).
They don’t have the manpower that China and India enjoy, so they never properly built up their high end service and manufacturing base, even in the Soviet Era. But the “Russia’s just an oversized gas station” line doesn’t hold up to any kind of close inspection.
60% of their export is fossil energy, it is a banana republic
60% of their export is fossil energy
China, India, and Turkiye have been ravenous in their demand for petrochemicals. These sectors have been growing at a breakneck pace.
it is a banana republic
Which large US business conglomerate is extracting fruit produce from Russia through armed occupation at below market rates?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic
“In political science, the term banana republic describes a politically and economically unstable country with an economy dependent upon the export of natural resource.”
They are so dependable on fossil fuel export that they try to sway all other nations to use fossil fuels and generate crisis on it to tie other nations closer to it’s only source of power in global market. Russia has less GDP than Italy. They are not super power anymore, and every nation should try to get away from their fossil fuels.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company
it came to control vast territories and transportation networks in Central America, the Caribbean coast of Colombia, and the West Indies. Although it competed with the Standard Fruit Company (later Dole Food Company) for dominance in the international banana trade, it maintained a virtual monopoly in certain regions, some of which came to be called banana republics – such as Costa Rica, Honduras, and Guatemala.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic#Etymology
In the early 20th century, the United Fruit Company, a multinational corporation, was instrumental in the creation of the banana republic phenomenon. Together with other American corporations, such as the Cuyamel Fruit Company, and leveraging the power of the U.S. government, the corporations created the political, economic, and social circumstances that led to a coup of the locally elected democratic government that established banana republics in Central American countries such as Honduras and Guatemala; No official apology has ever been done by any banana company or the U.S. with only the C.I.A. backed dictator of Guatemala apologizing in 2011
:-|
They are so dependable on fossil fuel export that they try to sway all other nations to use fossil fuels
Ah, Okay. I think I understand the problem here.
Everything you said is true of the GOP/American Right as well, and they do it the same way, through oligarchy, it’s just a matter of they having more time to ratchet it down where the US is just getting its official start, although it’s been working behind the scenes towards this for decades too
As if any USA president wouldn’t be doing the same thing.
Time to waste hundreds of billions defending israel while our infrastructure crumbles and our citizens still go without healthcare.
Again.
Anyone else get the feeling WW3 has already started but we just haven’t realised it yet?
Imagine starting WW3 the weekend after 3% of your population came out to protest for other reasons. Your war weariness debuff will hit 100% in one turn.
You could argue it started when Russia invaded Ukraine. But I wouldn’t mind Trump being forever remembered in history as the instigator.
I’d say annexed Crimea. (Unless that’s what you meant)
You’re probably right
You could also argue it started when the US invaded Iraq
It’s not a world war if it’s not from the Austrian region of Germany, otherwise it’s just sparkling aggression.
Yeah. It feels that way. What defines a world war anyway? Is it just when “most” countries become engaged in a major conflict?
I assume most nations of the world taking part is correct. According to Wikipedia WW2 is considered to have started after the invasion of Poland and subsequently UK and France declaring war on Germany, however there were other events beforehand:
The causes of World War II included unresolved tensions in the aftermath of World War I and the rise of fascism in Europe and militarism in Japan. Key events preceding the war included Japan’s invasion of Manchuria in 1931, the Spanish Civil War, the outbreak of the Second Sino-Japanese War in 1937, and Germany’s annexations of Austria and the Sudetenland. World War II is generally considered to have begun on 1 September 1939, when Nazi Germany, under Adolf Hitler, invaded Poland, after which the United Kingdom and France declared war on Germany.
Considering how much the world has changed since then with advances in technology etc., I think WW3 will look very different if it happens.
WW3 is any ruler biggest dream because it would grant them the highest amount of power they can get. WW3 won’t happen as long as people refuse to go to war because rulers never fight their wars and they need pawns who do die for them. You will get a world war once enough people get brainwashed to fought one. Watch out for government and war propaganda.
My God though, can you imagine magas abiding by wartime rationing?? People lost their shit when they were asked, “Please maybe just don’t sneeze on strangers in public 5 times a week…”
Yeah, like which of the recent events will be in future textbooks as the trigger for WWIII, and how will it all lead back to WWI (like WWII is basically a direct consequence of conditions of pre-WWI and major events related to the war & post-war treaties - WWIII in this config is a consequence of WWI/WWII & the forced hegemony/colonialism of USA that followed).
WW2 happened like 25 years after WW1.
It’s already been over 80 years since the start of WW2, so I’m not sure you can really assume that they’ll be that related.
So what caused WWII?
I assume your answer is ‘one man’?
In the same way “terrorist groups” arent created by the dominant force exerting mass injustice?
There’s no singular cause of WW2. However, in retrospect, many people would say when Germany invaded Poland.
That said, USSR and Finland were already fighting at that point, as well as Japan and China. It’s not a clear line.
Why would you assume that my answer would be “one man”? It was an incredibly complex conflict that was really a collection of smaller regional conflicts with various allies between them.
Why would you assume that my answer would be “one man”? It was an incredibly complex conflict that was really a collection of smaller regional conflicts with various allies between them.
&
There’s no singular cause of WW2.
Because basically all of those reasons are the same as WWI but amplified by the restrictions (manufactured economic crisis) posed upon Germany at the end of WWI.
That is why I said it can be viewed as the same war.
(Imho - anyways it’s literally just semantics, perhaps propaganda of the victors a bit.)Much like (the recent-ish) Russia in Ukraine - it’s usually not viewed as two separate wars, one in 2014 & the other in 2022. Bcs it’s the same thing, it was oblivious that it isn’t over & both Russia & NATO/Ukraine have all been actively preparing each year.
However, in retrospect, many people would say when Germany invaded Poland. That said, USSR and Finland were already fighting at that point, as well as Japan and China.
Yeah, Japan in China started basically in 31 (13 years after official end of WWI, a much more European thing), whereas Germany’s first foreign move was the military invasion of Austria in 38.
Doomer brain is toxic. WWIII will be a clear line. They have been.
Both world wars look like “clear lines” to you after the fact. Of course you can just point at, say, Ferdinand getting assassinated and go “yeah that’s what started WW I” but do you think anyone at that time thought “yup that’s going to start the mother of all wars”?
As others have pointed out they absolutely didn’t look like clear lines when they were kicking off.
They have been.
Months after assassination of Ferdinand the actual fighting began, and most projected it would be just anther war (common at the time in Europe, tho less common each century). People living through it knew nothing about it upfront.
We wildly think of WWII beginning with the invasion of Poland, but it took months for everyone (England included) to realise it wasn’t a war between two countries.
Not to mention how WWI & WWII are basically the same war in two seemingly inevitable parts.
And we have had a ton of proxy and/or cold wars between Russia & USA since WWII ended.
Just speculating really. Mind enlightening me what the clear line will be?
Holy moly lemmy has the tard.
Good chat mate. Really compelling argument.
Drugs are a helluva drug
Why do people say such ignorant shit with so much confidence?
Because it is not normal. Nor is it mentally health to be fearful and scared of everything and nothing.
It’s a chronic mental health issue. But yeah go ahead and wave it off harder. That will make it healthier. Internet is getting dumber.
If the shit hits the fan, I want too see every single fucking MAGA voter at a US Army recruiting office signing up for 11 Bravo, Grunt Infantry.
Grunt infantry is redundant
Yeah, I should have placed parenthesis around infantry.
Eh, maybe cav scout or something in the 92 family (NOT 92R), we don’t want those asshats walking around with an M4/203 and frags.
Nah they’ll just cry on tiktok about how they “never expected this at all” so that people feel sorry for them. Even though they fucked everyone around them.
And again we see old incompetent white men starting another war.
A society goes to shit when old men start wars whose conflict they know they shall never fight in
Nice one.
Chicken Hawks who wouldn’t go when they were called, but will happily send everyone else’s children to die for their oil.
As soon as HitlerPig starts his war, he’ll call for a draft. There is no way my son will fight in a MAGA War.
Are people surprised? Republicans are war hawks even more so than the Libs.
But only against countries that pose no threat to them i.e. they are chickenhawks. At least Biden could do the bare minimum to help Ukraine.
And considerably more than the bare minimum to help Israel
You’d be surprised. There are quite a few on lemmy that still do the both sides are the same. Oddly trying to do anything to form a new progressive is also something they don’t seem interested in either.
Biden ran on getting back into the deal with Iran, then insisted that Iran must completely return to fulfilling their side of the deal before we would consider returning to ours.
Both sides are not the same but Biden shouldn’t be let off the hook for his sudden flip on this issue.
Its one thing to be unhappy with the democrats. Its another (and self defeating) to not want to expand the progressive wing inside of it (or to form a new party and go for local elections) and to not stall alt right republicans everywhere else.
Absolutely, I just don’t think it actually helps Democrats in the long run to pave over their often deep flaws. If we were harder on Democrats 30 years ago, we probably wouldn’t have Trump today.
Nobody is paving over anything, you just cannot help yourself but shit on them theoretical shit that Biden didn’t even fucking do yet.
Biden didn’t even fucking do yet.
Yet? I’m not sure how to argue with someone who thinks Biden is still president. It doesn’t seem worthwhile.
Both sides are the same because Biden said something that suggested he might be hard on Iran (definitely couldn’t be a negotiating tactic)?
Yes I know how you ended your comment, I was replying to the rest of it.
(definitely couldn’t be a negotiating tactic)?
No, it definitely wasn’t a “negotiation tactic”. It was meant to avoid negotiating without Biden’s adoring masses noticing that he did a 180. He caved to AIPAC, as he would continue to do throughout his term.
Why the hell would Iran go back to fulfilling it’s obligations under the agreement when the US was still ignoring it’s obligations? Why would it bother negotiating with a country that doesn’t honor negotiated agreements? Everyone in the foreign policy space knew exactly what it was.
Yes I know how you ended your comment,
Then why the fuck did you haul out “both sides”? Why are so many people desperate to throw everything into that frame?
Yeah when liberals kill a wedding party or hospital at least they act sad.
Oddly trying to do anything to form a new progressive is also something they don’t seem interested in either.
Its okay to not like liberals, but that part of my original comment is important.
I read that and it made me sad because that will literally never happen in my potential grandchildren’s lifetimes
Same, but
A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit.
We still need to get the ball rolling. The institutions and networks we need will take a lot of time to build. I know a lot of our fellow lefties don’t want to interact with anything government, but doing so with the goals of harm reduction gives us space to lay the roots and set up the next generation for success. If we are serious about things we need follow ups for our protests and making the best efforts we can in our sub-ideal situations.
I would rather build a real, actual house for people than a system of oppression built on violence.
And before you say “habitat for humanity Jimmy Carter “ it’s the same catty bureaucracy I’ve found everywhere.
I would rather build a real, actual house for people than a system of oppression built on violence.
And that does not happen overnight, if you don’t follow up protests, and some voting.
Dude, USA is the country that is involved in most wars - starts them / finances them / whatever. And they usually find a dummy excuse to preserve their facade of doing good.
Face the truth - you are the bully of the world and the ruling party does not matter.
Was I ever in denial that the USA likes to play bully and world police? Let’s not forget our history about the rest of the Western nations, they’re hardly angels themselves. We’re all the same people anyways. Actually that reminds me of a good ole George Carlin quote, “We come from that northern European, basically the northern European genes, the blue eyes. Those blue eyes. Boy everybody in the world learned real quick, didn’t they? When those blue eyes sail out of the north, you better nail everything down motherfucker.”
Agreed. I wanted just to emphasize that the party does not make much of a difference in regards to wars.
Who are you even replying to
Wasn’t Trump the peaceful dove?
Everyone knew he wasn’t going to be able to curtail democratic elections without the excuse of a war. This is on schedule.
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I mean, Trump just illegally deployed the national guard and the marines in California. He needed the state’s permission (which he didn’t get) to deploy the guard and deploying the marines is on a whole other level of illegal.
We’ve got an election in NYC right now, with a pro-Palestine Muslim threatening to upset Trump’s close friend Andrew Cuomo. Weird that nobody is claiming this election is being threatened by Trump, given that NYC has an enormous stock of Trump/Kushner accumulated capital.
Not anymore. The SCOTUS ruled already that they must have their ballots approved by the Feds, and feds can overrule their ballots.
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So, Donald wasn’t allowed to appear on the Colorado ballot, being an insurrectionist?
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So, the SCOTUS ruled the feds control who is on the ballots in each state, right?
There is no such thing as a federal ballot.
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Unfortunately the republican run states will bend over whenever Trump tells them to.
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I mean the republican lawmakers, not the citizens.
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I always thought Trump could curtail democratic elections without the excuse of war … by relying on a convenient terrorist attack instead.
Nah, a war in the middle east is normal. Nobody would accept a normal situation as justification to cancel elections.
No US president is a peace dove. Between supporting proxie wars to police actions to declared war, they all end up getting people killed by bombs.
No.
We had a lot of “I’m willing to make deals with anyone” rhetoric from the Trump campaign that low-info voters took to mean he was anti-war.
But the underlying Pentagon leadership hasn’t significantly changed between Biden and Trump (or Bush and Trump, for that matter). Its all the same neoconservative think tanks writing variations on Project For A New American Century for the modern government.
The idea that you were going to elect an anti-war president went out the window during the primaries. Vanishingly few federal office holders have shown opposition to attacking Iran. Less than what we had in 2003 against Iraq.
Everyone from Richie Torres to Mike Lee seem on board with a brand new Holocaust in the Middle East.
But the underlying Pentagon leadership hasn’t significantly changed between Biden and Trump (or Bush and Trump, for that matter). Its all the same neoconservative think tanks writing variations on Project For A New American Century for the modern government.
That isn’t congress or the president. Pentagon leadership doesn’t declare war. Congress has the power to declare war which hasn’t happened for some time and since then the president has basically done so, although arguable that it’s been a “formal” declaration of war.
This is what people voted for, up and down the ballot. US voters put Trump at the top and yes men in the house and senate.
Vote better next time, I guess.
Congress has the power to declare war
That they fully abdicated with the 2001 AUMF, which they keep renewing specifically so they don’t have to ever make these decisions.
This is what people voted for
The people vote for candidates, not policies. And they candidates they vote for routinely talk out of both sides of their mouths. NDAAs regularly pass with overwhelming bipartisan support, even as a super-majority of Congresscritters campaign against this or that component of them.
Vote better next time, I guess.
I was told to VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO because there is a Cheeto In The White House. If both major parties field pro-war candidates, what’s the move?
But the underlying Pentagon leadership hasn’t significantly changed between Biden and Trump (or Bush and Trump, for that matter).
That’s not strictly true. Trump purged a lot of leadership that was loyal to the Constitution rather than personally to him.
But your overall point about the war-hawkishness remains valid.
This would have to be the most unpopular war in US history and yet I think everyone Trump has surrounded himself with is telling him to do it.
This might sound insane but every single wartime president has gotten a huge boost to their approval ratings due to media networks circulating pure propaganda nonstop. Even NPR will start doing positive coverage.
The consent manufacturing machine will rev up like it always does. There’s already attempts to get us on board with a the fantasy of a regime change. As though that won’t lead to another ISIS or Libya.
But I really don’t think the average liberal boomer is going to fall in line behind Trump like they did Bush. And certainly not anyone younger. Dem leadership is probably already on board though.
I don’t know if he’s serious about regime change in iran. He seems to negotiate from a raft of threats and lies. Hopefully it’s all for show but if the war does go down my guess for approval ratings is over 60%. Not quite Bush I or ii numbers due to decline in news consumption.
I doubt anyone in power is deluded enough to think they can actually reinstate the Shah or something. They probably just want to bomb every piece if infrastructure in Iran and not worry about them for a few decades.
But regime change absolutely is the fantasy they are trying to sell liberals.
Bingo. Plus if it drags on, he can attempt to stay in power because there’s a war.
That’s basically Bibi’s strategy. :(
It also isn’t true. LBJs approval rating absolutely tanked because of the Vietnam war.
Johnson’s approval ratings had dropped from 70 percent in mid-1965 to below 40 percent by 1967
https://millercenter.org/president/lbjohnson/foreign-affairs
It was perceived that he was losing the war and lying to the public about the successes that they claimed to have achieved.
But winning wars, even unjust ones, always gets the president brownie points in the eyes of the public and corporations
the exception was covid, there was a huge downturn in recruitments, and they were getting worried. but military propaganda: top gun maverick helped boost numbers up. also the fact that they loosen some restrictions to join the military too. i was in a forum of people joining, during the obama years, and it was getting tougher to join. its mostly due to medical conditions that prevent people from joining.
It is clear that Israel want this war. And they clearly can’t do anything without the US and the UK at least. However, they commited insane genocidal attack in Gaza which might have been part of their plans to provoke a reaction that justify a war against Iran.
When that didn’t work and Trump made a deal with the Houthis in Yemen without their knowledge and was close to a deal with Iran they pulled the plug and basically put the US government under a situation where the have to join their war sooner or later eventhough it is not a good time for the US to do it.
lets imagine Trump administration just gone. Any other adminstration have a few options:
- play a defensive rule, which cannot last for long as Iran have the means to a long term missile attacks, and Israel being small and there is a few main cities that can be targeted. Along with cost which will run their budgets down.
- stop supporting Israel, which will make their allies nation to reach to China or Russia for guarantee protection and the US will lose its defense credibility.
- forcing a ceasefire, which is impossible and Israel keep violating all their ceasefires. As they would like to the war to happen they will force it through escalation.
Along with the fact that Israel own the Congress, the Senate, and the US administration based on how many officials visit Israel and publicly endorsed by AIPAC, there are literally no other option.
The question now is how to make sure it is a popular war, it seems like they were trying to do it by the 6 day mark but couldn’t. The US government has two part, Zionist and MAGA supremacist, and the MAGA supremacist don’t want to be controlled by Jewish people and it feel as this is what stopping the US from joining now.
Most likely, they came to the conclusion that they will have to stage a false flag attack on US bases or assets to make it easier for the public to accept this war. This has been publicly stated by AIPAC speakers through out the years before 9/11, where now it feels more like a false flag as Benjamin Netanyahu keep mentioning “New York will be next”.
Vietnam was pretty unpopular tbh.
But was it in the beginning? I’m not old enough to remember what it was like when it started but clearly there was a lot of propaganda. The unpopularity seemed to manifest over time, as there was no goal and people dying over something most americans didn’t care about.
Or at least that’s my impression.
It’s not even hard to look this up, or maybe I already have the context having loved the 90s history channel. Vietnam had majority support for the first few years. But it was one of the first conflicts that was widely televised. Americans had never so quickly seen how fucked up war was, so support dropped off quickly. Weapons were also becoming a lot more fucked up during this time as well, adding to the visual horror.
I don’t personally know, but as far as I could tell, people in the USA were largely ok with the Vietnam war, until they started to draft people to send to Vietnam who never wanted to be in a military.
I don’t know, I’m neither american nor old enough. However, since it was a different time and, as you so brilliantly told, the propaganda machine was at its summum. So there is no way to know how really unpopular things were. However, looking at the civil rights movement and the hippie era that was happening et the same time, we could conclude that it could have been more unpopular.
Don’t forget that the majority of trump voters are in favor of a war, particularly against a country they have seen as an enemy for a very long time - not forgetting the fact that it is also a muslim country, of which they are very biaised against.
You could say that there are no fundamental differences between the iranian government and the one they are willing to implement on US soil, except the fact that they are both centered around two different religions, however similar might their doctrines be.
To Trump voters, however, those words don’t have any weight as, again, iranians are seen as an enemy of the so-called freedom. That makes this war quite popular by essence.
I think Trump is attempting to scare Iran into accepting his nuclear deal. The only problem with this tactic is that Iran might not believe him as they know how deeply unpopular the war would be.
I think Trump is attempting to scare Iran into accepting his nuclear deal.
Israel wouldn’t tolerate any deal though. They want no deal and permanent sanctions on Iran. Besides, we are well past talking about any nuclear deal.
So what’s the game plan, they’re going to bomb Iran into submission? That strategy has never worked in the history of warfare. They’d need boots on the ground and direct US involvement. And even then, this didn’t work in Afghanistan, nor Iraq.
Are the bombs working? No. Are we going to keep bombing them? Yes.
– President Biden on Operation Prosperity
This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t
– The Onion, 2003
Search “Altlantic Trident 25”
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Under rated comment— is planned excercise in Finland it seems although they don’t mention tankers so who knows
Yeah we’re gonna use like 1 tanker for that, 2 on a busy day. The 28 others are going somewhere else
This is not part of that, these tankers are escorting fighters to the middle east
That article is talking about tankers deployed from their European bases.
read the article
“Over the past hours, at least 20 tankers took off from various bases across Europe—including Prestwick (UK), Morón (Spain), and Ramstein (Germany)—to support what can now be confirmed as a large-scale redeployment of U.S. fighter jets to the Middle East.”
~~Yes, and the OP article is talking about tankers going across the Atlantic. So these are two separate things. (Maybe related things, but neither article connects the two)
I personally found no source relating then, but I may not know what to search for.~~
Edit: I see now that the OP did list those as airbase where tankers landed after crossing the Atlantic.
