Ring founder Jamie Siminoff is back at the helm of the surveillance doorbell company, and with him is the surveillance-first-privacy-last approach that made Ring one of the most maligned tech devices. Not only is the company reintroducing new versions of old features which would allow police to request footage directly from Ring users, it is also introducing a new feature that would allow police to request live-st
Who could have guessed that having billionaire owned always on surveillance device in your home would lead to this
It’s not like there’s been dozens of people warning about it in the last few years. People deserve what they get.
I bought a cheap Chinese security camera for a fraction of the cost of a Ring and signed up for their cloud storage system. I’m more comfortable with the Chinese government being able to access footage of my backyard, than the current US administration.
Not too long ago, that statement would have sounded controversial or even crazy. Nowadays though, I’m shocked how much sense it makes to me. Never thought that I would agree with something like that.
Yeah. It’s crazy. I would choose neither because I can DIY something secure but for non-technical folks in North America today, the Chinese gov’t having your video is safer than a private US corporation. I didn’t imagone I could make this judgement back in 2022.
Or you could choose an option that does neither. Why feed the autocrats at all?
eh, you might have a spare day to source a completely uncompromised camera and find someone in a trusted neutral country who runs an unproblematic hosting service and configure a system to do offsite storage in a secure way, but I’ve got other stuff going on. If you can source me a reasonable alternative I’m happy to use it when it comes time to renew my subscription.
Just buy a Reolink Doorbell. Pop in an SD card. Put in on your wifi or LAN and access it with your browser. You’re done. It’s all local. There’s an optional app that does need an external server, but that’s optional and there is no subscription.
Reolink devices still reach out to a bunch of different servers across the world as soon as you connect them to a network.
Always isolate an IP doorbell or camera on its own access point or virtual network, where it can’t see or interact with other devices on your local network, and then block it from WAN access.
Ok, but one of the most important use cases is non-local access.
If I’m at home I can just go to the door.
Wireguard/tailscale in?
I don’t know anything about this product, but if the data is just on an SD card attached to the doorbell, couldn’t someone just steal the SD card? Like, this is why offsite storage for cameras is useful.
Sure. That’s why I have my Reolink doorbell hooked up to Frigate NVR running on my home server. And frigate is hooked up to my home assistant. But that’s the thorough and secure solution, not the quick and easy solution that the grandparent poster was asking for.
An offsite server is not under your control and accessible by who knows. Surely it is still a privacy concern.
Privacy is like security in that it costs time. Most people don’t spend time on even having a conversation like this but if something bothers you then finding a spare day is easier.
Nah you’re just being lazy. Its really not that hard. At least be ashamed man instead of this defeatist bullshit.
What you’re saying makes me think you aren’t aware of the technical knowledge of your typical smart doorbell or cam user, which is basically little to none.
So, what are people using to get:
- good quality streaming
- doorbell alert
- motion alerts
- local and remote access
- recording storage
Currently using Ring (outside of America) and looking to migrate away. There are some nice other features like distinguishing motion vs people vs vehicles that are nice to have but can live without.
Home assistant + frigate has been serving myself and my family on separate sites for about 2 years. It has definitely kicked my ass, but seeing “privacy friendly” reolink cameras constantly phone home on my firewall assured me it was worth it. Wireguard tunnel in and you have remote access with practically no security concerns*
2nd this configuration. My firewall rules block all external camera traffic and Frigate (once configured) is superb at detecting people without false alerts. All recordings are stored locally. It is disturbing just how much traffic smart devices try to send to China and Amazon, even when not subscribed to cloud services.
Home Assistant makes everything ridiculously flexible and is configured to turn on camera sirens if someone is detected at night or while my alarm system is armed, and disable sirens and alerts when doors have been opened or the alarm has just been turned off. The open Wireguard ports appear closed to scanners so I’m also reasonably comfortable with network security.
Ubiquiti. Cloud gateway max (router + NVR) for $200 with no storage, add your own 2tb nvme, get a ubiquiti doorbell for $300. Little pricy, but simple to setup and all the footage lives locally on the cloud gateway max. No subscription, and you can add more cameras later. The cloud gateway max is an excellent 2.5G router. Slap on a WiFi 7 access point for $200 more and you got yourself a killer home network.
I want the Ubiquiti Doorbell Pro (wired Ethernet) but it’s always sold out. Plus I’ve been hesitant to spend ion a Cloud Gateway or Dream Machine. I just wish I could use my own storage.
I need to just bite the bullet though.
The cloud gateway max lets you use your own storage without getting one of their giant NVRs. I got the wireless doorbell. Initially I kinda regretted not getting the wired one, but once I tuned my WiFi I haven’t had any issues. But definitely go wired if you can.
I have a piezoelectric doorbell.
The bell part plugs directly into a wall socket. The button part is completely wireless and batteryless and is affixed near my front door.
Been working like clockwork for a decade to let me know when someone is at the door and I’m home.
If I’m not home, the postman or delivery driver leaves a note to go to the collection center for my package. If it’s a small package not requiring signature, they just leave it at the door or in the mailbox if it fits. None of that changes with a camera.
Why overcomplicate life.
It’s solved tech and there are hundreds of alternatives so you can definitely find something local. I’ve heard Netatmo recommended for Europeans (French, gdpr compliant)
There are many other cameras but most have the same potential to do this sort of shit. Sending video to some server you don’t control, on cameras you don’t control because it’s proprietary, isn’t going to cut it if privacy is your goal.
No, most don’t do it.
What is the incentive to do this sort of stuff?
The best thing is you don’t need any of that. Just install normal doorbell. We all love gadgets but some of them are just not worth it.
Reolink Doorbell ( Firewalled from connecting outside LAN) + Frigate (self hosted)
I recently adopted a dog who I want to monitor when I’m away from home. So I got a cheap motion tracking in-home camera with cloud storage, and AI identification for people and pets. The AI functions never fucking worked. I already had a Ring camera.
Did a bit of research after realising the cheapo camera was shit, and went for a eufy stack to replace the Ring doorbell and tbr shitty in-house camera.
I now have:
- eufy Video Doorbell
- eufy HomeBase 3, with an added 1TB of storage
- eufy IndoorCam C220
This gives me
- local storage for both cameras on the HomeBase.
- the HomeBase also gives you local AI for (individual) person, (general) pet, vehicle, and package identification. I haven’t tried the vehicle identification.
- streaming in the app for both cameras should work in 2k. I have it set to 1080p. It’s good enough for me.
- continuous recording is an option. I have it set to motion alerts because
- the app gives you motion and doorbell alerts. You can configure how much information you want in the notifications, to prevent video’s from passing through eufy’s servers.
While this happened a few years ago, I’d still suggest to block it from accessing the internet/cloud in your firewall nonetheless.
https://mjtsai.com/blog/2022/12/01/eufy-cameras-uploading-to-cloud-without-consent/
Even if it’s not on eufy’s end, there could always be a vulnerability.
I use a $40 tp-link video doorbell and it has has all of that.
You can run all of that on a Raspberry Pi, without third-party access and surveyllance.
Yes I did this years ago in 2013, but the problem for my family was accessing the recordings (basically I never set up remote access outside of our LAN)
Just bought a Reolink rln46 NVR and four cameras. I don’t have the doorbell, but every other feature you requested works flawlessly. It records 24/7 in 4K but can stream at lower resolutions if you want when you’re away from home on mobile. You can set what notifications you receive and when you want to receive them. You can even go back and search for events by type in the recorded video when they were never flagged for notification in the first place. I’ve been thoroughly impressed and plan to add to the system in the coming months.
I also use Reolink, including both the NVR and doorbell, and have been very pleased with it.
i use wyze, been solid for years esp for the price. local SD storage is a huge plus for me and the streaming quality is good and loads insanely fast. i have a handful of blink cameras around the property but never use them anymore bc the interface and UX is so shit
I don’t like being under constant surveillance from my neighbors doorbell cameras. This is one of many excellent reasons why.
What I am going to do is use MapComplete to start labeling every house that I come across that has one of these doorbells.
Then I’ll post some QR codes around town that link to the map.
Once people start seeing their homes called out on a map then perhaps some of them will feel uncomfortable with that and start to understand just why privacy matters.
I feel like this could backfire if lots of people have the cameras. They might be like, so what? Cameras are normal.
Or worse, thieves will see who doesn’t have them and plan their hits accordingly.
LoL, do it!
Why do people want to see who comes to the door?
My brother installed one of these at his house and it makes me uncomfortable, but I know he probably feels safer and more in control by having it, and would value that over my comfort.
Then I start to gaslight myself, “why am I uncomfortable with the surveillance apparatus getting regular identifiable videos of me at a known location”?
FedEx drivers routinely lie about folks not being home to accept delivery, but in reality they never even go up to the door to ring the doorbell or knock on the bell. Having evidence that the driver never showed up can help dealing with FedEx to get a package that they repeatedly fail to deliver.
That’s about it though, I don’t actually have a doorbell camera at the moment (I did, but it died, and I haven’t bothered to replace it), and I really resent the mass adoption of surveillance cameras pointed out at public roads and sidewalks, especially Ring cameras which have been repeatedly shown to be readily available to law enforcement.
This seems to be exclusively American thing. I presume it’s a big safety issue there. Here in Thailand people rarely even lock their doors let alone care about something like video doorbells.
We had a burglary a couple of months ago, luckily we have an indoor camera which scared him away when he saw it and nothing was stolen. On the camera recording, we heard that he was ringing the doorbell for a couple of minutes to check if anyone is at home. We now have a camera doorbell (not Ring one though), if we had it then he would see it and avoided our house altogether.
Yeah we have a camera pointed at our driveway from our garage door. It isn’t close enough to the road to trigger movement from people walking or driving by.
But if they come inside the fence it’ll pick em up.
Also have a couple of cameras watching other random parts of the yard. We live on just under 2 acres, and it’s all enclosed in chain link fencing. Next to us is an automotive maintenance shop owned by a buy here pay here lot a few miles closer to town, and they don’t always hire the most trustworthy individuals to work on cars…
Why would you not want to see who is at your door? Or know if there is a package there? Plenty of packages get stolen off of porches in my neighborhood
/boggle
How is that not obvious?
Because of porch pirates.
Just another dang ol’ reson to keep tech outta the house. But honestly, the masses are dumbasses and I am not gonna talk to idiots as much as I can. I really do a a bunch of listening to peoples takes & observations. I’m fairly quiet and appear non judgmental. But deep down all the way to the surface, quietly, I’m like, ”That’s an interesting take”. If necessary, I could incinerate. However, I enjoy allowing people to explain themselves so that whatever questions I may have, are answered. I have to do less work. And that’s great b/c Ima lazy mf’er.
