I recently learned that voting on lemmy is not anonymous. Anyone can get information about who has upvoted and downvoted a post or comment.
In combination with your IP, this is a massive privacy (maybe even physical security) risk. Also, people can target you for your votes.
Sadly, this is something where I would prefer Reddit over Lemmy. Big tech scrapes data from both places anyways, at least Reddit is safe.
Why is public voting a massive privacy and physical threat but public posting and commenting is not?
Would be my question as well. It seems quite obvious that if you participate in publicly viewable discussion, that the stuff you do is publicly viewable.
If you don’t want it associated to your physical person, use a VPN and unidentifiable account name.
(And the statement “at least reddit is safe” seems absolutely ridiculous to me.)
Reddit is safer than Lemmy. There cannot be witchhunts on lurkers. IP info is not accessible to anyone but the company.
Your IP isn’t accessible to anyone but your instance admin, that doesn’t federate.
As long as we’re talking about privacy issues on Lemmy, I’m pretty sure that isn’t true. I strongly suspect that it would be possible to set up a tool that would post image links, or even just track the accesses for your own avatar, in a way where you could statistically be pretty confident of associating IP addresses with usernames after participating in Lemmy for a while (correlating people accessing your avatar image with replying to particular people’s comments and then them replying to those comments, sending DMs to particular people from a not-very-much used account, something like that.)
I think modern versions of Lemmy can proxy images to reduce this, but it’s hard enough to do robustly that I would bet that there is some kind of way the information leaks out. It’s really hard to prevent this kind of thing even if you’re trying hard to make it difficult and the Lemmy devs don’t seem to be trying all that hard.
I don’t even think image proxying is on by default in Lemmy, although I just checked and this Piefed instance is doing it.
reddit safer than lemmy lol
How is Reddit less secure than Lemmy?
you can be sure that reddit tracks you; often you cant even open it when using a vpn. they have an approximate location from your ip, possible movement data when their client is on your phone, and then they enrich their data with external datasets. those are then sold. reddit is a bit more private than facebook, but not as much as you believe. all those sources combined mean they pretty much know who you are.
I agree that they track and are shit at privacy. I specifically find it safer because only the company can track me and not the users.
you know that data is being sold to hundreds of third parties, right? I`m pretty sure that more people get access to that data than there are lemmy users. but you do you, mate
If someone starts to harrass you due to your voting habits (which I’ve never heard of happening) you can just block them and move on with your life. The difference between someone saying mean things to you and someone writing them is that you can just stop reading.
Blocking is a bandaid to the problem.
If a person climbs onto a stage to make a statement, and instead of getting on stage to make a counterpoint someone just shouts “booo” from the audience, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to demand that person to show their face. There’s a certain level of cowardice in simply downvoting without explaining why you disagree. There’s no option to post anonymously here, so it’s not obvious to me that voting should be anonymous either. If people upvote or downvote, they should be willing to stand behind that - and if someone asks for an explanation, you have three choices: ignore them, block them, or explain. I guess there’s also the option to simply not vote at all.
If it were up to me, I’d hide vote counts from users entirely. It’s not all bad, but I’d argue the net effect is negative. Visible votes encourages toxic behavior. When someone makes a controversial claim, you can first downvote them, then dunk on them in a reply - and now they’re being downvoted into oblivion while you get applause for your smug comment. It feels like you’ve won the debate when in reality, nobody’s mind changed. Heavily downvoted comments also prime readers to dislike them before they even read them, instead of approaching with a neutral mindset and then forming their own opinion - or reading further to see other perspectives. As it stands, the system mostly trains people to recognize what’s popular on a platform so they can self-censor to avoid downvotes, and feel validated for shouting down people who voice unpopular opinions.
So, if someone asks me to explain why I downvoted something, I might explain or I might not - but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable thing to ask. On the other hand, if someone makes it their personal mission to follow me around and harass me because I downvoted their comment, I think it’s unreasonable to demand the system be changed just so I don’t have to deal with it. There’s already a solution for that: blocking them.
There’s a certain level of cowardice in simply downvoting without explaining why you disagree.
.
When someone makes a controversial claim, you can first downvote them, then dunk on them in a reply - and now they’re being downvoted into oblivion while you get applause for your smug comment.
.
If someone asks me to explain why I downvoted something, I might explain or I might not
Dude, pick a lane.
I don’t see a conflict here but I’m happy to explain if you elaborate on what’s confusing about what I said.
WHO BOOED? GET UP HERE THIS INSTANT - I DEMAND TO KNOW WHO BOOED!
If people are harassing you privately, I’m sorry and I’m sure you can message a mod. If you like to express your opinion through votes and adding to the pile but don’t like others knowing you did so, you’re a coward.
I don’t understand why people are calling me a coward. I gave an unpopular opinion, I stood by it and then made a post that might subject my account to scrutiny.
I think they are referring to the point that you want your personal votes to be kept private. Some say it is a form of “cowardice” to not vote publicly.
Personally I see your point is very valid and at least this should be more actively described when signing up for Lemmy and that obviously your instance admins can see everything and you should be very careful (e.g. VPN) if you’d like to participate privately in a conversation. Maybe this is not the right platform for you then ufortunately. Everything in life has its pros and cons and certainly Lemmy is not perfect.
I don’t want just my votes to be private, though. It should be private for everyone. Why are people not seeing that?
Yes.
Is this a joke? Are you here as some pro reddit propaganda machine?
How is Reddit less secure than Lemmy?
I feel hat posts/comments are much more of a privacy exposure than any vote.
If the OP wants private voting vs their post/comments then two account would be the solution to that - this is how it is done in the backend on piefedAlso if only voting is so bad, just don’t vote. Those votes are not used for anything but ranking in lists for others, you’ll not see any difference for yourself if you stop voting.
It is a social forum. Voting and commenting is the core part of the experience.
Yes. So does seeing how you are voting and commenting.
I don’t understand
So you still don’t understand that publicly accessible votes come from publicly viewable actions of users and can be tracked back to them???
If you’re a lurker who votes, voting would be your only exposure.
If you are a lurker that votes then I very little that some random could tie back to your home address or even IP
Which only has rather limited information derivable from it. The most “identifying” would be to vote regularly on a community dedicated to your local area.
If you don’t trust your instance with knowing your IP-address, then the issue is not going to be solved by “anonymous voting”. Because your instance has to know if you voted on something or not, so votes cannot be done multiple times. This is unavoidable and equal to the situation when using reddit. Except that you can choose a different instance if you distrust the current instance.
OP either did not think through what he is claiming or he is driven by an agenda.
Both of them are but when a person comments, they willingly put out their opinion in the public. Voting is meant to be anonymous (like irl).
Also, votes have a massive amount as compared to comments. An average user might comment on 1 post for every 50 they vote on (a number I pulled out of my ass)
Voting is meant to be anonymous
You THINK it should be anonymous. I disagree so did Lemmy creators.
The Lemmy creators thought votes should be private, and didn’t respond meaningfully to people who tried to tell them that Lemmy votes are not private.
If they’re currently retconning it as “Lemmy votes are not private and never were,” then that’s a step in the right direction I guess, but the fatal flaw was ever following the Reddit model where votes are “supposed” to be private for real. Because as you note it is impossible to do in an ActivityPub system. A lot of people when this was first being discussed, pre-lemvotes, were objecting strongly to the idea of making votes public, because they liked pretending they were private and just not paying any attention to the fact that they weren’t. I think mbin still refuses to display downvotes for this (stupid) reason.
(Actually, Piefed did what I thought was a brilliant solution, creating new actors to send out votes with that were different from the comment actors, so that individual users could vote from Piefed and admins could check into it but the votes would not be trivial to associate with the users. IDK why they abandoned it but it seemed like a pretty clever way.)
I thought they consulted it with the users, and they decided that they should stay pseduo-private.
I’d dare say lemmy creators wouldn’t mind private votes, they chose not to display voting counts to normal users after all, but that’s not how the ActivityPub protocol is built and honestly can’t be built if you want federated votes.
Voting is only seldom private IRL, only in very specific situations like in very important national elections.
When you vote for what to get for lunch together or for who will be the head of your local football club or who will be the speaker in your school, most of them are public, similarly to Lemmy votes.
The only one tying your votes to your IP-address or the E-Mail you registered with, is your home instance. This is identical to reddit. If you don’t trust your home instance with your IP-address, use a VPN and/or switch to a different instance.
You are making up an issue for lemmy, which you are willing to accept with reddit.
Votes being public is a lemmy specific issue
But they aren’t tied to any public information that relates back to you, unless you voluntarily make this information public yourself. You have the exact same “privacy (maybe even physical security)” risk, like when you use reddit. Just that with reddit you have to trust reddit to use the platform, while in the Fediverse you only have to choose one instance to trust.
Votes are public here and not on Reddit. Someone who doesn’t like a downvote can go on a witch-hunt, something which is happening to my comments right now.
Both of them are but when a person comments, they willingly put out their opinion in the public. Voting is meant to be anonymous (like irl).
Also, votes have a massive amount as compared to comments. An average user might comment on 1 post for every 50 they vote on (a number I pulled out of my ass)
Voting is meant to be anonymous (like irl).
Says who? Voting/likes are public on a lot of social media sites, as long as the content itself is public. The only mainstream ones I can think of where it’s not are YouTube and reddit.
The thing is they make it extremely clear that votes are public by letting you see who voted right next to the button.
Lemmy hides this feature and most users don’t know about it.
Yeah, I agree that this isn’t ideal.
person comments, they willingly put out their opinion in the public.
Yes.
Voting is meant to be anonymous
No.
That is not true. Most votes irl are in fact public to the audience. Did you ever participate in a democratically organized group? Local council votes are usually done by raising hands. Votes in HOA meetings are usually done by raising hands. Your sports club deciding on a new executive and treasurer? Guess what. Raising hands.
On most social media the voting is public, see Facebook/Twitter likes. Hell back in the days of forums you could usually see the list of users that liked a given thread in most of the forum software I ever used. Reddit was the anomaly really
I think piefed has a feature where your votes never leave your instance, so are not exposed in this way (but obviously only appear on your home instance too)
Agree that it should be clearer to people coming from Reddit that that’s how it works though.
The thing is they make it extremely clear that votes are public by letting you see who voted right next to the button.
Lemmy hides this feature and most users don’t know about it.
Why are you saying IP addresses are publicly shown here and why is (almost) no one correcting you? That would’ve been an enormous privacy risk that would’ve required intentionally fucking users over. Just doesn’t even make sense to write what you did about IP addresses. Seems like you’re just hoping to cause some panic.
Admins can get them. It is not available to everyone.
Only the admin of your instance can see your IP address, it doesn’t get federated to other instances.
Who says that Reddit isn’t selling upvote/downvote and IP info? Or sharing with govts?
They 100% are
I am not worried about big tech because they scrape everything anyways. I am more worried about the witchhunt and potential admin abuse.
And even this does not happen, it should be made clear that votes are public
Why are you worried about admin abuse? If you are worried that your admin will abuse you, you should switch to an instance you trust more.
How to decide who to trust?
Reputation, word of mouth, history, etc. Same way you decide anything else you consume.
How do you pick where you go shopping? You pick the closest one. Then if it turns out to be bad, you go elsewhere.
What?
Okay so then why fearmonger? You’re thinking that a handful of people in the world having your IP and also opinions is somehow more dangerous than anything else on the Internet?
Only admins of your instance.
Don’t tell anyone, but your posts and comments are also public.
I know you are being sarcastic and edgy but point is that voting is assumed to be private by the average person because it is anonymous in elections, it is anonymous on the closest social platform Reddit and popular websites like youtube.
I don’t know how to break this… But voting in Lemmy is not choosing a president.
Voting is like booing or clapping in a public agora. It’s not private. If you assume is private that’s on you.
Not even on your beloved reddit. Reddit admins know all your votes.
Admins know but users don’t.
That’s precisely your issue before. Voting in reddit is not private as admins know that info and can share with anyone so the “bad voter” could get prosecuted. But users, like you, think it’s private because they don’t see it.
Be consistent with your argument at least.
I will disengage here. Bye!
How likely is an admin to share something with someone else vs something being already public?
deleted by creator
It’s a federated platform. How could voting have been anonymous?
Besides, nothing requires you to vote on posts. If you’re not comfortable voting, then don’t vote.
I am okay with votes being public but then it should be made explicitly clear to users.
The people I trust the least on these platforms are the admins and owners of them. Your voting wasn’t anonymous on reddit to those people either.
True but it is very less likely that admins will target a specific person when they know that information is private and they will get caught easily. Here, other than admins, every user can easily target someone.
Only you can see this comment Daniskarma. The Leering League of Lemmy SEES you Daniskarma and we have taken notice. Cease your efforts to spread information about public posts and comments, or ELSE Daniskarma. We’re watching you.
Why is this comment completely empty?
Iunno, weird.
While it is important to know that voting is not private (nor truly is direct messaging), that is not in itself a danger.
Lemmy is community driven, and so it is — broadly speaking — governed by community norms and the platform is responsive to the needs of those norms. If someone is harassing or mistreating you on the basis of your voting, then you can take it up with an admin. I’ve seen people called out for the use of vote manipulation, but I’m not sure what it would look like to be targeted based on your votes.
By the way, there are also mechanisms for publicly addressing grievances with mods and admins.
Most importantly, recognize that it does take time to adjust to the reality that no one cares about the fake internet points here. Reddit uses dark patterns to manipulate users into equating votes with worthiness. Having a lot of karma on reddit contributes to a person’s reputation and credibility there. Here, no one cares, or even sees, a person’s vote totals. Like most everything else, it’s technically public, but it’s not visible or indicated.
Why does reddit want you to care about your karma? For engagement and metrics. If people are only incentivized to share genuine interests and human interaction, then they won’t scroll mindlessly for quite as long. If every post and comment is incentivized for maximum virality, then Reddit can sell more eyeballs to advertisers. Plus, if people care enough about their fake points, they will literally pay to buy reputation. Reddit doesn’t care about your well-being, just your ad impressions. Like any other social media corp.
Welcome to a better, healthier, more transparent place. We are far from perfect, but no one here will use dark patterns to mine you for content.
if someone is harassing or mistreating you on the basis of your voting, then you can take it up with an amin.
this is a highly demanding solution for a misbehavior that takes very little energy to engage in. at least in my experience with admins, even when you have an effective one that doesn’t mean they will be effective in the coming months or years. ultimately a lot of people will end up having to explain somebody else’s bad behavior to another who just might not care.
but never mind that. what I’ve actually got to wonder is what does having votes public even accomplish positively? is the goal to help users understand each other based on actions we made that up to this point we thought were anonymous?
Votes are public more of a side effect of the fact that Lemmy is federated, rather than intentionally as something to be publicly visible, I don’t believe you can go find someone’s vote history just from the normal Lemmy ui, but someone could create their own Lemmy/mastodon/kbin version (or just some custom scraper that speaks activity pub and pretends to be one of these) to start collecting vote counts.
Votes being tied to accounts makes it slightly harder to do vote manipulation, but only slightly. It would be as simple as having my server tell the server of the original post that 5000 users that totally exist voted on this post. Of course you could do the same by actually creating 5000 fake accounts on your server, but that’s marginally more work, and also slightly more detectable. There’s a lot of trust in the activity pub protocol.
I don’t believe you can go find someone’s vote history just from the normal Lemmy ui
If you run your own Lemmy server, you can probably just query your server’s database. Lemmy admins can see upvoters and downvoters for all comments (and posts I think), not just comments/posts on servers they’re an admin on, so that data must be in the database.
got it. thank you for the in-depth explanation
There have been a lot of discussions about whether voting on Lemmy should be public. Some threadiverse platforms actually take the step of displaying votes and reactions publicly for that very reason.
I won’t attempt to recap those discussions here, but you may be able to search for them.
Most importantly, recognize that it does take time to adjust to the reality that no one cares about the fake internet points here.
Oh but they do.
It also informs how comments are sorted under each post (unless you choose New or Old by default).
IMHO the voting system is the best part of both reddit and lemmy: it gives certain powers to the majority. It gives a rough picture of how other people - even those that do not comment - feel about opinions.
edit: lol, even you do
Voting functions completely differently between the two sites. I didn’t say that voting doesn’t matter, I said that no one cares about the “points.”
People can and do use voting to let others know about interesting content or to express displeasure at seeing a post (which is why it is sometimes surprising to see any downvotes on certain posts such as the nice one I was responding to in the screenshot).
What people don’t use them for is a measure of merit or reputation. Voting here functions much more like reddit used to years ago. It helps sort content by what people want to see.
I took it up with a mod. They said it is public information. That is how I learned about it. Mods won’t do shit if they favor the abuser.
I like piefed because it lets you see at a glance if someone is a serial downvoter. On each piefed user profile is a thing called “attitude” and it’s a ratio of your upvotes vs downvotes.
100% means the person doesn’t downvote people. 50% means they downvote and upvote equally. 0% is only downvotes.Edit: I saw someone today with negative % so it must be 100% is all upvotes. 0% is half upvotes half downvotes. -100% is all downvotes.It shows up for people outside piefed too so i see you too lemmy angry people.
I would never downvote cereal.
Unless it was grape nuts. That shit is like eating gravel.
Here’s how you Grape Nut:
Pour a small pile (like a cup or so) in a bowl.
Take a spoonful of peanut butter and use the backside of the spoon to mix up the PB and GN. Smash it together for longer than you think until it’s well mixed.
Top with a drizzle of honey and then pour milk over it.
S-tier breakfast.
Raisin bran gang!
What is mine?
90%
Thanks! Cool feature.
Now do me, please.
Hang on, doing your mom.
Come on, dad. Those jokes are lame.
This just sounds like Reddit account karma score all over again? But with a percentage displayed instead of total.
Reddit karma is how others feel about what you say. Piefed’s attitude is how you feel about what other people say.
Slightly different but i see your point.
oh no. I should upvote more. I’m really bad about voting at all 😓
Why would you let others police your behavior?
Others influence many things about my life. I don’t see it as policing if I’m trying to choose to bring more positivity to the table.
at least Reddit is safe.
Lmao, what!? Reddit tries their best to know exactly who you are, where you live, your education, where you work, etc… And then they sell that data to anyone.
Yes, exactly! This is just what they hoard on iOS devices:
You are confusing privacy and security
They have that data, true. But they don’t harass me.
Russia really should just leave Ukraine, though. (Sorry, I just saw the context for this a few minutes ago and can’t help myself).
Dont care who knows but I too agree with this.
It is not the context for this post, people have made it the context. It is the reason for this post.
Maybe context is the wrong word.
E: how about catalyst.
Sir, this is the Fediverse.
It is nowhere explicitly made clear to users that voting is public. It should be made clear if it is going to be
It’s the other way around here: Everything is public except where it’s made clear that it won’t be (e.g. email address, password).
For what it’s worth, your instance of choice is particularly negligent in regard to informing its users. Compare lemmy.today/legal to lemmy.world/legal, or their respective signup pages for examples. There’s little that Lemmy itself or the community at large can do about that 😞
It needs to be fixed. Every user is having a different user experience during account creation but everyone’s information is being federated equally.
They don’t seem very active, but you can try reaching your instance admin at https://lemmy.today/u/mrmanager
It is not the problem of my instance per se. It is a problem for all instances because everyone has to agree to instance terms but they kind of are agreeing to all instances’ terms.
deleted by creator
It is made clear because there is an option to see all the votes right next to the like button. Similarly, many sites allow you to go through activity of people you follow.
deleted by creator
I can see the number of votes but not who voted. This gives the impression that this information is not available publicly. However, it can be accessed by anyone on third party websites.
deleted by creator
I think its a fair assumption that most people make that whatever data which isnt explicitly displayed to a regular user is not public. Having likes be public but hidden is misleading.
An EU resident could sue for emotional damages under the GDPR. Or maybe just complain to data protection authorities.
One day it will happen.
I hope it does. Lemmy should not get benefit of the doubt just because it is open source
I don’t think IP addresses federate? I think only your instance admin can see your IP address. In any case, though, you should generally always assume that your up/down votes on any service are recorded and tied to your username. If you can come back later and change your vote, that vote is tied to your username. It may not be visible to other users, but the server admins can absolutely see what you’re doing.
Reddit might not make your votes publicly visible, but they’re absolutely tracking them and using that information to select what you see, including advertising. They might not directly share those votes with advertisers, but they almost certainly are sharing your interests based on your votes. And you should assume Reddit and others will comply if the government comes asking for what users liked a post the government opposes, or who downvoted a post praising a new government initiative.
It depends on your threat model, but your threat model might change. Freedom of speech might be curtailed by politicians even when that’s supposed to be unconstitutional. What might be safe to do online now might become unsafe in a year or two.
YSK: every action you take online, even as simple as an Upvote or Like, might be recorded and may come back to haunt you
Reddit is one entity, and by providing a service it is bound by a variety of privacy and data protection regulations. On the fediverse anyone can accumulate any of that information and store it for years, and they are not bound by any such data management or privacy laws. It’s absolutely shocking to me that a place which is otherwise quite obsessed with privacy just brushes aside this distinction. As it stands a vote on the fediverse is far more likely to have real consequences versus one on reddit if, say, ones phone is searched at a border.
This could be mitigated considerably with simple voting agents, as piefed tried to do, but this idea was killed by idiotic forum politics over fears of “vote manipulation.”
Yes, this is not hyperbole - the otherwise “privacy focused” leaders of the fediverse are more concerned with fake Internet points than real privacy concerns.
It’s the nature of the beast. Federated software holds no secrets.
Related: https://sopuli.xyz/post/31369487It might not be a secret but voting should be a private thing, like most irl voting. It is nowhere explicitly stated to the users, no apps or website says it.
Even if sites like lemmyvotes disappear and software like kbin/mbin starts hiding the votes all you need to do is to spin up your own lemmy server. Piefeds dev is actively trying to find a way to obscure voting, but I think that ended with the choice of public (federated) vote or private (instance-only) voting.
I agree that the public nature of votes could be made more apparent, but the lemmy devs has decided against that
https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/4967It’s ridiculously stupid. In my opinion. Actually making the votes private would be fine. Making the votes public but making sure everyone knows that would be fine. Trying to pretend they’re private, and hiding them in the UI but making it an open secret that they’re not private and anyone who knows what they’re doing can look at how other people are voting, is textbook harmful security-by-obscurity misleading your users.
It kind of goes with their authoritarian mindset I guess. “Don’t question me, I don’t have to be honest with you about what’s going on, just shut up and go back to your UI which has only the features I allow you to have. Mine has a little dropdown that can look at the votes. Yours doesn’t. Get back in your box. All the good users won’t look outside what I tell them to.”
Making the votes public but making sure everyone knows that would be fine.
This is why I actually like that in kbin/mbin you can see up front who has voted what. It doesn’t pretend votes are secret when they aren’t.
I don’t understand why everyone is so dismissive of this being a problem. Especially considering it is easily mitigated using simple voting agents.
It’s not just a privacy concern either, I promise you that trolls love being able to see which accounts are engaging with them in order to target certain demographics. Like we know this kind of shit has been used to manipulate elections already, and people here are just like “well I guess that’s just the world now.”
If you have an easy solution then I’m sure they would love your code over at https://github.com/w3c/activitypub
I don’t mind public votes, I do wish lemmy did a better job of showing that they are public though.
Piefed literally already implemented voting agents and it worked fine until forum politics killed it.
Ah, so what Rimu calls an alt/sockpuppet account that automatically votes on their behalf.
I haven’t seen the Matrix chat but having a dev look for feedback and then implement changes based on feedback received isn’t “forum politics” in my world.Good luck with your fork!
https://piefed.social/post/956572Yes that thread is quite literally just describing forum politics, based on a very small amount of feedback from a select group of individuals discussing the matter in back channels.
Simply put, admins were not satisfied just banning the agents for voting and the user for commenting. This is entirely a perception issue and caused no actual problems besides feels. This caused the implementation of trusted instances which was actually a flawed concept. Rather than iteration on the idea, the pressure from other admins caused it to be abandoned unceremoniously with almost zero input from users. I’m not sure how you can interpret this as anything other than forum politics.
It literally can’t be private, just from the way Lenny works. You can’t have it all. You could in theory make it less visible, but that would be a false sense of privacy as it would be possible to do get the information with some effort. Just having it be fully open is more honest and makes no claims it can’t keep.
It’s social media, even if federated. On Facebook, tiktok or whatever they are also not private btw: maybe users can or can’t see them (I have no idea), but the company behind the platform certainly can and will use it for advertising to you and for what else to show you, making you the product.
The thing is they make it extremely clear that votes are public by letting you see who voted right next to the button.
Lemmy hides this feature and most users don’t know about it.
Piefed did it with voting agents and it worked fine. The reason they rolled it back was just forum politics, because admins didn’t like not knowing who was voting, even though they could just ban the agent if they wanted. This, incidentally is just more reason to hate the idea of public votes.
The IP address thing is not real, though
Just choose a nickname that is random word+4 random digits and don’t reuse it on other services
This is the way. Randomise your usernames and use a password manager to keep track of them.
In combination with your IP, this is a massive privacy (maybe even physical security) risk. Also, people can target you for your votes.
No.
It would be unusual to be able to exactly identify someone purely from their IP, but let’s say someone posted from their work IP in a small company. It would substantially lower the bar to dox them.
Let’s go further and ponder if an authoritarian regime setup an admin and started coorelating dissent ip’s collected from user when they did things like paying parking fines, or signing their online tax forms.
Let’s say that they collected all that and trained an LLM on it, then when you go to get a passport renewed or are stopped for a traffic violation and ask the LLM if you’re a dangerous person based on their criteria.
It’s not a direct problem, but it has slippery slope all over it.
IP addresses are not something that can be pulled from just any instance. You would need to be the administrator, and even then you’d only get access to the ip address of just your own instance users. AFAIK, at least - maybe they’ve made efforts to mask ips, too, but im not even sure how that’d work.
Federated posts and comments are copied from server to server. When someone from .world is looking at a comment from .dbzer0, what they are seeing is information that was synced from the dbzer0 server address, not the user’s.
There was a brief moment when there was a vulnerability with linked images sent via DM that could route you to an external server and log your IP address, but that has been patched now by most instances.
As with anything on the internet: assume your activity is not private at all times, or take active precautions to mask your identity, or both. No opsec is perfect and often the only thing standing in the way of a hack or dox is the endurance and motivation of the bad actor.
IP addresses are not something that can be pulled from just any instance.
That’s what I thought about votes too. I’d be very happy to know that you can’t access ips the same way you can votes on other nodes by simply being an admin on a given node. Honestly, I never would have guessed lemvotes could exist.
That’s just how a federated exchange needs to work, though. Without sharing which user is creating activity, there would be no way of verifying the legitimacy of activity without some convoluted blockchain process. On the other hand, sharing IP addresses isn’t just unnecessary but more involved.
There’s frankly no point in making votes private, anyway. Why should it matter who knows how you vote?
Let’s just say you don’t understand how IP or llms work.
ohh, so you can’t put train a small compendium everything a person wrote then infer things about that person based on their life. Good to know.
I’ve been dealing with IP’s for about 30 year now, also good to know.
Well I hope you have been, unless this is your first week going online.
My votes are a massive privacy risk? How? I’m putting them out there publicly willingly. As is the nature of the internet.
In combination with your IP, this is a massive privacy (maybe even physical security) risk.
Your IP would only be seen by your instance (which is inevitable, you gotta connect to it after all). But there’s no way for anyone else to look up your IP.
I read that since images are hosted on the instance they were posted to, any instance hosting pictures you load, even if they’re DMd to you can get your ip. So someone could just DM you a picture from their own instance if they wanted it for whatever reason. I have not personally verified, but just adding it here because this comment seems to be the most succinct and accurate one I currently see.
even if they’re DMd to you
Really only if they’re DMs. Because a publicly posted picture yeah, they’ll see your IP loading it but they will also see everyone’s, with no way to tell who is who.
And a fairly recently Lemmy was updated to not show embedded images in DMs so that wouldn’t even work. (This depends on your client, but on the most recent official web version external images are blocked)
image proxying may become (more of) a thing in future.
Are you sure about that? Reddit is a fucking cesspool.
It is not a cesspool if you stick to niche communities and avoid scrolling r/all
I got kicked off of Reddit for saying “fuck Ukraine” when some little bundle of twigs said they liked a certain Van Gogh painting because “it matches the color of the Ukraine flag”. That was in r/museum, where you’d think there wouldn’t be much political horseshit.
Wow, that is something. People are so fucking touchy about this war. This extreme prejudice against people who are even slightly anti Ukraine are banned left and right, no nuance.
To be clear, I’m not against the Ukraine people, just their corrupt fascist government, just like us (the U.S.).
Thing is people often confuse criticism or opposition to any one side as absolute and unwavering support of anything the enemy does. Zero place for nuance.
