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Isn’t this basically what religion does, as well?
Some religions.
At-will employment too.
“You’re nothing special - easily replaceable. I’m doing you a favour by letting you have this job.”
Basically anywhere where a power imbalance is an intended feature, not a necessary evil.
In a broader sense, it is what cults do.
“Nobody accepts you… but us” “You will die alone… unless you help us” and so forth.
or… “They just can’t take a joke… but we can”
Exactly this. It’s the same playbook for more than just those two groups.
how else does incel communities capture more incels into the fold, by extension conservative politicians.
Some religions do, yes, and it works, which is why they do it. The important thing is to identify these behaviors and find social groups that will empower you instead of disempowering you.
Unfortunately, humanity is better at making people feel small than building them up. And the folks who succumb to this are likely already in a compromised state so it will be hard, if not impossible, for them to pull themselves out alone.
This is essentially cult tactics, yeah. As much as I loathe incels… Some of them genuinely need help.
The ones who are in too deep to literally start calling women “foids” tho? Throw them in the woodchipper. Dick first.
They’re in a decentralized cult. They all need help, but some of them need a lot more help before they’re going to be release candidate males
Ive never heard that term before. I’m guessing it’s some sort of shortening of “femoid” (a word I believe to have made up right now, but can imagine incels using regularly)
I’m sorry to tell you you’re exactly right.
a word I believe to have made up right now
if only
*sighs*
Yes, that’s literally a shortening of that, and “femoid” was a word they DID use constantly. And then they shortened it further to disguise it more, I guess. I’m sorry you had to find it out this way :|
they are so chickenshit they cant even admit they are woman haters, aka mysogynists. they dont like being called out being a mysogynist, so they disguise it as something else, like blaming them for causing thier own problems.
thats why conservatives have captured them as voters, give them something to hate: women, trans people,etc/.
5’8" (1.73m) here. Married for 13 years.
A touch shorter and celebrated 24 years married last month.
I’ve seen 5’2" guys who are regularly seeing incredibly attractive women.
I also know a guy whose face is not what one would call conventionally attractive but his personality means he’s often had his pick of men and women because he just feels good to spend time with.
even 5ft men can get with girls. girls can detect thirsty desperate , creepy men(nice guys) very easily. i had unfortunate experience of hearing and watching my olders bro pickup videos he always binged on. they all sound desperate and creepy.
Conversely, I’m 6’2" and chronically single
5’3" (1.6m) and closing in on 25 years. It’s amazing how far a bit of kindness, compassion, and a sense of humor can go.
You mean 4’20"
Aka the goated height
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It was an abusive exwife in my case, but yes. It’s abuse all the same. It does the same thing.
It isolates, it breaks you down, it makes you forget who you were, and then when you least expect it, they are no longer dependable for anything and you have nothing left.
And they feel nothing.
so many comments claiming this post blames or makes fun of men and incels that i went back and reread the whole thing… what the fuck are the lot of you even responding to‽ there’s nothing like that in the post, and on the contrary it says men are victimized by this. Jesus, some of you are really willing to take anything as a slight. beats self reflection i guess.
Lemmy becomes completely irrational whenever the words “male loneliness epidemic” appear, once you read that around here (and it shows up in the OP) you can skip the comments as nothing good will come out of the thread.
I kinda get it though
Yeah a good few people are telling on themselves by feeling called out by this.
Yup, that’s why tate sold the worst dating advice in the world while being a sex trafficker, ensuring repeat business.
The solution to many problems in our Society is to make fraud laws stronger and prosecute them more fully
and “get rick quick” schemes with extremely bad trading advice, which require high memberships.
Study on men who are chronically single showed the common denominator: having extremely low confidence. Now that I think about it, this post corroborates the target profile of negging by abusers-- victims who have low self-esteem.
There are, for the lack of a better word, not so good looking men or short men having relationships, in one form or another, with ridiculously good looking women because these men have confidence without being too bragadacious. Of course, there are shallow women who go for looks alone (same as men), but there are just as many kind-hearted and less shallow women who prefer men with personality over looks and vice versa.
Low confidence and self-critical thoughts are what impedes chronically single men. Sometimes, it is indeed on the state of mind. And this vulnerability of lonely men is exploited by manosphere to create incels. I don’t have a solution to address the problem but this is a general observation.
yea, incelism is all about blaming women for all thier inadquecies, the reason they dont have a job, or they not tall, or they dont have large dong. or they are not hot. they could be looking the wrong places, if a psychopath can have a SO, so can “incels”
this post brings up some good points, but I want to be clear that turning men into women hating incels who will die alone is the GOAL of all this rhetoric. it doesn’t have to be that way.
if your reaction to this post is “women bad” you should take a step back and realize they’ve already gotten you to take the first step down the pipeline.
lol, quite literally blaming men for everything as usual.
Honestly you arent fucking wrong.
If a woman has a series of bad experiences with a series of asshole dudes and decides she is done with it and would rather be single everyone claps because she is empowered. If a guy has a series of bad experiences with a series of just horrible women and decides he is done with it and would rather be single he is an incel and men are the problem.
Some dudes are incels because being a garbage human being with no regard for the feelings of others isnt limited to men. Women can say and do cruel shit too. I watched my 5’3 buddy ask a girl out and get “Ewww” instead of “No thank you” this shit doesnt happen in a vacuum.
i never heard of a single man being called an incel lol, only when start saying incel things, then yes. nobody cares otherwise
& here we have a fine example. What are these “Incel things” ?
Mysoginists don’t represent men, like misandrists don’t represent women.
Well men ARE society’s punching bags, society either wants men dead or enslaved. (E.g: Conscription)
Update: Well look at that immediate dislike
be 5’ 7"
not attractive to most women (aww)
every airplane seat feels like first class
live longer on average (aww)
workout once a week and look buff
no car is too small
sleep like a king in beds of any size
women generally trust you more easily cos your presence is non-threatening
You know it’s not that bad of a trade. Y’all sixfooters have fun with the girls.
It’s true. Women trust me partially because…wtf am I going to do to them? Sit on her head? Bite her ankles? So, I’m one of the only two being driven by my co-worker nowadays. Bonus points for having given up on relationships, because even if I was in the mood for those, I don’t have time for no personal life.
“OMG these people are incel losers they have no worth and deserve to die!”
“Incel losers” commits a horrific crime because they were treated like they have no worth and deserve to die
“OMG can you believe it? We should bully them harder, that will fix things!”
Maybe the fucking problem is people treating these poor people so horribly. We want to PREVENT such things happening which means addressing the root of the problem and trying to catch people who could fall into those destructive manoaphere circles BEFORE they get the idea to commit mass murder. I’m PRETTY positive the solution isn’t to bully them more.
“Incel losers” commits a horrific crime because they were treated like they have no worth and deserve to die
What makes you think that was why a particular crime was committed? There are lots and lots of people who get bullied and are treated like shit and they don’t act out in some horrible, violent way.
I think it’s these communities that they’re in that encourage that kind of behavior. We need better support structures for our society so that people who need community can find something healthy.
I thought we agreed to treat every life as worthless, unless they have a couple of million dollars on them, regardless of gender or race?
A part that complicates things is that incels, contrary to what the name implies, choose to be incels. Also, working with incels specifically could end up giving a perverse incentive (or whatever it’s called when an effort to reduce something instead becomes an incentive to increase it) to be an incel to get help.
thats a volcel, no?
I realize you’re probably just making a joke but the reality is that there are few people so ugly that no one would have sex with them. Even if you keep your standards high, I’m sure there’s many cases of someone whose own mother would cry at the sight of that managed attract a model who is just into that.
But the attitude is very off-putting, more so than whatever physical characteristics they think disqualifies them from love or sex (and a good number of them aren’t even unattractive but just have no self-esteem and hate themselves so much they either can’t believe someone else would like them or that someone who does must have big problems of their own or is lying to use them).
Even the niceguy attitude is offputting, and the incel attitude is pretty much that but replace the sadness with anger and the depression with rage, and add a bunch of BS masquerading as the science of attraction that proves they aren’t attractive and ignores that it’s subjective and that there’s this weird “so ugly it’s cute” category that some/many people seem to have (though it usually applies to animals rather than people).
This is the Just World Fallacy. Saying “You can’t get laid because you have a bad attitude” isn’t any different from saying “The reason why you’re homeless is because of your bad attitude.”
Okay. Does that help at all? Abso-fucking-lutely not.
I disagree that it’s unhelpful. I’ll agree that it’s not an easy thing like “just smile more, you’ll get laid!” But step 1 for any incel to actually get laid would be to stop being a fucking incel and recognize that no one owes them sex, affection, or even a moment of their time to hear them out or explain why they won’t.
If you choose to wallow in something, whether it be inceldom or depression, you’re going to find it very difficult or impossible to come out of that.
Incels sound like a toxic cult, and I’m not sure how much you can blame people for getting indoctrinated into a cult.
Depression is a disease which is treated with medication and therapy, so I don’t see that as similar at all.
What I find interesting is that most people try to counter this with “Just do this, and then maybe you’ll get laid”, instead of pointing out how self-centered the entire concept is in the first place.
But step 1 for any incel to actually get laid would be to stop being a fucking incel and recognize that no one owes them sex, affection, or even a moment of their time to hear them out or explain why they won’t.
No, that is not step 1 for actually getting laid, because there is no step 1 for that. Some people are doomed to be alone and miserable, and for some of them, that’s never going to change. That’s just how it is. I wish we’d built a better society which actually takes care of people, but that isn’t the one we live in. I just do my best to try to make things better.
What we really need is legalized sex work, but there’d have to be protections for the workers so they wouldn’t have to worry about being abused by their clientele. Legalized sex work with strong sex workers’ unions would be ideal.
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Well, you choose whether or not to identify as an incel. Which is what you mean, I assume.
Yeah, inceldom is a mindset, choosing to be bitter about their state of affairs and lash out at others for not wanting them. I don’t frequent their areas, but some of them blame various ratios of their facial positioning when their face is fine, it’s just their attitude that is shitty.
I guess it could be argued how much one can change their personality to be less off-putting, but I’ve known some real ugly dudes that have had fine dating lives.
Sure, but what you’re describing here is more than just an attitude. It’s a cult.
Manosphere being a toxic shitshow of harmful beliefs and self-sabotag is nothing new.
But in 1 way, it is very different to an abusive boyfriend. The abusive bf doesn’t necessarily start off being abusive or not as obviously so. The bf adapts to you and slowly undermines your confidence. The manosphere has it in their advertising material. The people fall for the manosphere are not slowly manipulated and abused by the manosphere. The manosphere is the new abusive boyfriend after the breakup with the last abuser. When the abuse already has been normalised and kinda wanted because at least it is “familiar”.
So what is the first “abusive boyfriend”?
From what I could witness, most likely the “first abuser” is most likely a close family member, either the (step-)father or some uncle or grandfather - people who themselves believe in such values they call “traditional”.
Yeah, but also (step-)mother or some aunt or grandmother, maybe even girlfriend. Not only men are pushing these “traditional” values.
This is true, but if even just one family member protected them from this harmful rhetoric, it saves hope for the kid.
maybe in a ultra conservative household. but more than not its the man of the house that influences the male children more.
In my life, I made a very different experience.
And I believe:
Sexist beliefs, traditions and norms are not only held up by men and ultra conservative women. We all do it together and as long as we act that we don’t do it as a collective, we will continue to fail young man and women and turn more people into toxic sexist idiots.
so is it just impossible for a woman to do something wrong or?
Father’s need to support their sons, show empathy, and actually engage with their children in a meaningful way. Hug your fucking kids!
Elephant Graveyard said it first.
So what is the first “abusive boyfriend”?
For me it was high school. Constantly being treated like shit by my peers for being weird and quiet really fucked me up. Fortunately things got better in college and I didn’t fall into the manosphere crap but I very easily could have had I not found people to give me a break and help me learn to act more “normal” without being abusive towards me.
Podcast episode #120 (Invicil) from Reply All should be required listening in this day and age.
Invicil: How a shy, queer Canadian woman accidentally invented one of the internet’s most toxic male communities.
Man, Reply All was so good… It really bummed me out when I heard that PJ is a major bully/asshole.
Was that ever substantiated? I saw some comments saying that it was just a rumor, I didn’t really look to hard into it because the podcast was over by then.
weird take. There’s certainly a feminist supremacist sphere active in demonizing and diminishing “less attractive” men, and women, feminist or not, have always enjoyed the privilege of men seeking their friendship with more passion than other way around. Friendly women of low attractiveness levels have more opportunities to have their sexuality validated.
This is just a supremacist take on demonizing men further.
Are you saying the manosphere isnt targeting men’s insecurities in a bully-like fashion?
It’s both. Both are the issue.
Which women make fun of men in a systemic way? Can you please name them so I can look them up?
Definitionally, if you’re looking at individuals it wouldn’t be systemic…
Thank you you’re right , I used the wrong word.
Still interested to know which women prey on men’s insecurities like the Fresh & Fit podcast bros and Andrew Tate do.
There is a systemic gender advantage of opposite gender wanting to be your friend more than the other way around.
Look up #KillAllMen. Don’t worry I have more. The real question is how much do you need until you admit it ??
okay and that’s like maybe a couple thousand individuals on social media compared to like the what, the millions of women literally married to men and taking care of male family members etc. lol look out your window buddy
A couple thousand. It’s a couple billion that has not seen any opposition. Clearly you are willfully ignorant.
Marriage is not a debunking, when those same married women support & don’t oppose it
What is it? A hashtag that anyone can make?
Go & see for yourselves.
I already know the answer. Stop being a dumbass using the action of one anonymous person to condemn tens of millions of people.
I don’t know what the manosphere is. PUA/Andrew Tate try to elevate men’s self esteem. Whether denying men’s insecurities is targetting them is grey area. Incels as a defeated group moaning to each other about defeat, get piled on with a lot of supremacist hate, mostly from women/women’s groups.
Where is the “bully like” fashion? It can’t be “acting like a role model”.
Chritofascists, who primarily serve Zionist supremacist establishment, or Feminazis, lie to their audience, but aren’t bullying their adherents. They are boosting their “deserved supremacism” by diminishing the rights/humanity of their “inferior” enemies. Supremacists sell “you too can have my advantages if you join us”. It can be wrong without it being classified as bullying.
There’s certainly a feminist supremacist sphere active in demonizing and diminishing “less attractive” men
What convinced you of this?
probably those posts on reddit where the women are complaining about men about various things, and they dont realize its a man commenting on those subs.
Kinda reminds me of boot camp, using psychological attacks to break down men’s will and have him disregulated and complient
it makes sense they want robots, who wont question where and what to shoot.
