Remembering to look for and ignore folks with that telltale indicator has made the fediverse so much more enjoyable.
I think I’ll decide based on the actual post content thank you very much
Removed by mod
You know what’s funny is .ml was one of the first instances I signed up for. I thought it stood for machine learning or something to do with programming.
Yep. I made an account there. Got banned for having an opinion that was in direct conflict with the propaganda shared there.
I knew it was a leftist instance. I went into it (naively) excited to engage with a more thoughtful leftist internet space, considering it was a bunch of reddit exiles who were upset about heavy handed Reddit censorship. I was quite disappointed to learn quickly that it was just more of the same tankie brain rot, with more of the same tankie censorship you can find in a thousand different tedious places.
Even then I stuck with it for a bit. And then I learned that the head admin was potentially the most fragile person on the Internet, who literally will not post outside his own instance because he cannot handle any internet where he does not have (what he believes to be) a “win argument” ban button. It is literally so cringe, I cannot stand to be associated with it, and I don’t understand how other people tolerate being associated with his antics.
MLs are essentially incapable of arguing in good faith. You know how Christians quote to bible to “prove” their religion is true? MLs are the political version of that.
I opened a thread just yesterday and the top comment was “I recommend you read this article if you want to know what Noam Chomsky is really like”. It was upvoted. I like to learn things, and don’t really listen to a lot of Chomsky. So I started reading.
It was the most uneducated, biased, ragebait crap I’d ever seen posted to the fediverse. I started mentally building my reply about how “people are saying” is the worst kind of fallacy, and providing a quote from someone else with a different opinion doesn’t count as opposing evidence. I actually got a little upset, disillusioned even, wondering how anyone could fall for this idiotic “argument”. I didn’t agree or disagree with any point, but it was just so poorly made.
I went to reply, thinking I should provide some warning, then I noticed I was in an ml community. I’m mobile, so it sometimes doesn’t show the community until I’ve clicked (I know I can change that in the settings). I considered posting anyway, but it felt so fruitless. It feels like they’re either sheep or assets. I moved on. I feel better getting to let it out here instead.
I haven’t read a single exchange with a .ml tankie that hasn’t been utterly juvenile roleplay nonsense with no desire to engage with reality, I don’t give them any amount of my attention or even irritation, if kids wanna do roleplay stuff between games of Hearts of Iron 4, they can, but other instances should ban roleplay outside of their specific circle-jerking forum.
Honestly I will half agree with you. Really we should be providing primary sources if we want to prove anything.
Not because I don’t believe socialist news sources are inaccurate it’s just that liberals are not going to believe it.
As someone leaning ML, this makes me feel like I haven’t argued with my own side in a while… Or I am less ML than I think I am…
I have an ML account and usually just jump back and forth between .world local posts and .ml local posts and I swear I’m not seeing all this hostility people talk about anywhere
excited to engage with a more thoughtful leftist internet space
considering it was a bunch of reddit exiles who were upset about heavy handed Reddit censorship
Lmfao. What’s leftism to you?
… we don’t?
I literally can’t do what the meme suggests, because I’ve already blocked all users from that instance automatically.
You might try slrpnk.net for what you were looking for. I guess you know that by now, but in case anyone else is reading and thinking similarly.
I’ve got an ml account too, but at the time I think world was normal. I think world has also gone the Reich way.
there some .ml accounts that just talking about tech, i assume that what it is originally for, but it was co-opting by hard left politics at some point.
wait, what does it stand for?
Technically it is the top-level domain name for Mali.
I’m fairly certain that the Lemmy devs chose it because of their two favorite socialists/communists: Marx and Lenin. But I can’t find a reference to that right now.
Marx was a socialist political philosopher, that helped define the social end goal of communism. Lenin was a militant revolutionary that thought he could ignore Marx’s slow natural social evolution to communism. And force it under authoritarian boot heel. He was aspirationally communist at best, but not communist. His ideology has failed to achieve it everywhere it was tried. Generally, creating a new class of Petit Bourgeoisie or even collapsing into open fascism.
Other than that you are correct. Lemmy.ml hexbear.ml and lemmygrad.ml all chose the Mali TLD because of the abbreviation.
Have you read either Marx or Lenin?
A more important question is, did you think critically about what you read. And compare it to actually historical outcomes. Not just take it as dogma. Why do you think the Soviet people ultimately rejected the party Etc. At least symbolically. Why did former vassal States often demolish former Soviet monuments. Did they not read enough Lenin. Or had they lived it.
Unlike the states built around Lenin’s ideology. I believe people should absolutely be allowed to read about opposed ideologies and even organize around them. If they reject you, generally that means you aren’t filling their needs or are being a net burden. Though I also generally reject the idea of, or need for the state entirely. Far too much concentration and corruption. Whether it’s technically left or right.
That’s a lot of words to say “no.”
I did think critically about what I read, and it’s astounding how many predictions that they made came true. For instance the monopolisation of whole sectors of industries was a really specific prediction to make in Marx’ time when nearly every town had their own manufacturers but look at us today with the global food supply controlled by only a handful of corporations.
And the majority of its citizens did not reject the Soviet Union. It was dissolved against the will of the people. Why do you think the CPRF is the second largest political party still today? Why did other communist parties fare so well in the elections after the dissolution? Why did NATO need to systematically destroy Yugoslavia if the people largely disagreed with the system?
Also, I’m gonna be very honest with you here, your statements about Marx and Lenin when you clearly didn’t read them make you look rather silly. As an example, it is widely accepted that abandonment of vanguardism caused the collapse of the SU. Therefore it was in fact abandonment of Leninism that caused the collapse. Vindicating Marxism-Leninism. If we’re talking about comparisons to historical outcomes… And his view on the “free press” still hold up today, in particular when viewed from the side opposing the gaza genocide.
Leninism is the only noncapitalist ideology actually practiced, so I wouldn’t really call it failed. China, Korea, Vietnam, Cuba and Venezuela are the most prominent examples of course.
I can only recommend, once again, Comrade Cowbees introductory reading list. In particular Marx as viewed by Lenin himself.
Other than that you are correct. Lemmy.ml hexbear.ml and lemmygrad.ml all chose the Mali TLD because of the abbreviation.
it’s hexbear.net
Just like .TV domain is actually Tuvalu but Twitch and other livestreaming sites use it as abbreviation. These countries actually make a lot of money from selling top level domains like that.
Yes though I thought I remembered reading something a few years ago about them reclaiming them. But hard to turn down money.
Lenin was a militant revolutionary that thought he could ignore Marx’s slow natural social evolution to communism
Huh, I never thought I’d encounter an actual Menshevik on Lemmy.
Please tell me through materialist historical analysis: without a strong vanguard party pushing for rapid collectivization in 1929 in pursuit of industrialization, and the rapid industrialization (15% GDP growth per year) between 1929 and 1941, what would have happened to all peoples standing between Berlin and the Urals?
That is such a simplification that it is probably wrong.
Marx did not really concern himself with the ultimate goal of communism. His great achievement was his analysis of capitalism. Marx did not describe a slow evolution toward communism, but rather a process in which the contradictions he identified in capitalism culminate in revolution. No evolution! The few times he commented on communism, he described its prerequisites. He writes in the Communist Manifesto “In depicting the most general phases of the development of the proletariat, we traced the more or less veiled civil war, raging within existing society, up to the point where that war breaks out into open revolution, and where the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie lays the foundation for the sway of the proletariat.”
Lenin’s approach was enormously successful in some respects. After the October Revolution, the USSR underwent unprecedented industrial development, which greatly improved the living conditions of most people. In general, the argument that “it has never worked before” is very problematic. For some strange reason, communist countries have always found themselves under massive attack from capitalist countries. For example, by Hitler’s Germany or the US. Inconceivable sums of money were invested by global capital and its states to show “that communism does not work.” If it really hadn’t worked, none of that would have been necessary. That still applies today. Lenin was a right-wing, authoritarian communist and was rightly criticized for this by people like Rosa Luxemburg. But economically, things were improving so rapidly that capitalist states became increasingly concerned. The fear was so great that capitalists in the US even agreed to the New Deal. Something similar happened in Europe.
ML does not stand for Marx and Lenin, but for Marxism-Leninism. A propagandistic self-description of the system of the Soviet Union under Stalin. Another word for it is Stalinism.
Lenin wasn’t trying to erase that transition to communism is gradual, but instead correctly identified that the beginning of that transition is revolution, which Marxists at the time had erased from Marx. Dialectical materialism posits that there are revolutionary leaps after quantitative buildups, the transition to socialism is the beginning of the next long gradual process of achieving communism. He did not “force it under authoritarian boot heel,” but instead was the leader of the bolsheviks, a mass party chosen by the working claases.
Contrary to your position, Marxism-Leninism has successfully established socialism in many countries, and is so widely adopted by leftists partially because of its practical success. It’s the western leftists that endlessly move goalposts to invalidate socialism outside the west that results in perpetuation of bourgeois narratives surrounding socialism as it exists in real life.
Honestly, your appraisal of Lenin and Marx makes it come off as though you haven’t actually read either. Have you?
because of its practical success
That’s like a doctor saying that shooting a patient in the head was a success because they don’t have headaches anymore.
a mass party chosen by the working claases
a party that seized control and maintained it’s grip on power with violence against the working class
That’s like a doctor saying that shooting a patient in the head was a success because they don’t have headaches anymore.
Doubling life expectancies, providing free and high quality healthcare and education, low-cost or free housing, full employment, reaching full literacy, democratizing the economy, defeating the Nazis, and taking a semi-feudal backwater to the pinnacle of scientific and technological development, even reaching space in a few decades, is not “shooting the patient in the head.” None of your accusations make any sense.
a party that seized control and maintained it’s grip on power with violence against the working class
No? Fascists, capitalists, and landlords are oppressed by socialists, but not the working classes. More fantasy on your part, it’s all vibes with you in the face of actual facts.
Nah, they chose it because the ccTLD along with few others had been free for a long time. I was there when lemmy was just a few months old.
Someone made up these reference about marx/lenin claim and was perfect for wankies to circle jerk and the tankies didn’t refute it or went along with it, so it stuck.
Before that the free domains were mostly used for spam/phishing (because it was free and being similar to .mil), some called it machine learning, my links, my library and so on. US military sent lots of emails to this cctld because of unchecked typo.
Except lemmy (& maybe reddit? to detract people from the fediverse), the .ml domain is not considered marxlenin anywhere else.
https://dev.to/bauripalash/lets-get-your-own-free-domain-5f16
https://www.theregister.com/2023/07/18/us_military_mali_email_typos/
Moron liberation
Marxist Leninist
They use it to mean Marxist Leninism, although it also does mean Machine Learning and Mali
Maoist Lemmy
Now we just need Posadist Lemmy
i’m a leftist and have an ml acct. but it’s like there is no engagement or linking or such - i dunno. i’m a newb.
You’d be hard pressed to find many on the fediverse that aren’t some flavor of leftist.
But yes. A lot of instances defederated from the .ml ones for the same reasons ml were generally blocked and banned from similar sites in the past. Which ironically led to the start of Lemmy and the link aggregation portion of the fediverse in the first place.
A lot of instances defederated from the .ml ones
Last time I checked, infosec.pub was the only instance of any nontrivial size (319 users / month) that was defederated from lemmy.ml.
Depends if you consider liberals to be leftists.
No, it does not. That’s just a popular way for MLs to disregard any opinion they don’t like. “Liberal” is to online MLs as “woke” is to conservatives. The Fediverse is packed with Anarchists, Socialists, Communists, and Leftists that don’t fit neatly into a category and that’s not even arguing about whether social democrats and democratic socialists count.
Yes. It does. Just because you like the left wing ascetic and want free healthcare doesn’t mean you’re not a liberal, and that describes a lot of people here.
The Fediverse is packed with Anarchists, Socialists, Communists, and Leftists that don’t fit neatly into a category
You mean terminally online wannabe leftists who haven’t read theory or engaged in organizing while they regurgitate CIA propaganda?
Like clockwork, here’s one now. And he plays a reverse card like this is Uno and not an intellectual exchange.
“CIA propaganda” is the other ML buzzword that approximates conservatives alleging “woke” and they’re always baffled that people outside their echo chamber don’t immediately concede the point. Like they just made the first move in a game of chess and legitimately think it’s checkmate.
“CIA propaganda” is the other ML buzzword
If you really wanna get informed about it, Gabriel Rockhill literally just published in Iskra Books an extensive analysis of the ways the US State Propaganda Apparatus affects media, arts, political organizing… There are literal entire books written about it if you wanna get educated.
Lmao. Are you gatekeeping being a leftist?
I’m differentiating between online “anarchists, socialists and communists” and the real deal. I had an anarchist on Lemmy the other day tell me that they don’t think class analysis is important.
You say that as if it’s a bad thing
Just so you know Brain is a rage baiter.
Similarly I also thought that, but chose the national instance instead.
deleted by creator
My .ml experience:
- Have a different opinion
- Get banned for rule 2
- See what rule 2 is
- Respect other opinions
from the modlog it looked like you got a 4 day ban for citing a work of fiction as fact and crashing out in the replies when challenged on it
I had asked for a source that the book is fiction and got no answer except a quote from his ex-wife.
Another user definitely pointed out evidence for why the gulag archipelago is fiction you just seemed to not want to engage with it. I had that exact conversation with an ex-friend of mine and I had to tell him why Solzhenitsyn is a piece of shit and unreliable for the truth. This video sums him and that book up perfectly.
Here’s what you say is “no answer except a quote from his ex-wife:”
Alexander Solzhenitsyn was an anti-semitic Nazi sympathizer, and was arrested as such. His fiction is based on the folklore of the gulag system, and archival evidence and historical texts paint a much clearer picture of the soviet prison system. He’s essentially Yeonmi Park but for the USSR.
Here’s a real quote:
From an excellent thread going over his many ideological failings:
In his 2003 book, Two Hundred Years Together, he wrote that “from 20 ministers in the first Soviet government one was Russian, one Georgian, one Armenian and 17 Jews”. In reality, there were 15 Commissars in the first Soviet government, not 20: 11 Russians, 2 Ukrainians, 1 Pole, and only 1 Jew. He stated: “I had to bury many comrades at the front, but not once did I have to bury a Jew”. He also stated that according to his personal experience, Jews had a much easier life in the Gulag camps that he was interned in.
According to the Northwestern University historian Yohanan Petrovsky-Shtern: Solzhenitsyn used unreliable and manipulated figures and ignored both evidence unfavorable to his own point of view and numerous publications of reputable authors in Jewish history. He claimed that Jews promoted alcoholism among the peasantry, flooded the retail trade with contraband, and “strangled” the Russian merchant class in Moscow. He called Jews non-producing people (“непроизводительный народ”) who refused to engage in factory labor. He said they were averse to agriculture and unwilling to till the land either in Russia, in Argentina, or in Palestine, and he blamed the Jews’ own behavior for pogroms. He also claimed that Jews used Kabbalah to tempt Russians into heresy, seduced Russians with rationalism and fashion, provoked sectarianism and weakened the financial system, committed murders on the orders of qahal authorities, and exerted undue influence on the prerevolutionary government. Petrovsky-Shtern concludes that, “200 Years Together is destined to take a place of honor in the canon of russophone antisemitica.”
200 Years together is a completely different book and an ex-wife as a single source is not enough for me.
Okay, let’s assume his storys in the Gulag books are fictipn. What is your general opinion on gulags under Stalin?
The point of 200 years together being listed is that we know that he’s a liar and a conspiracy theorizing anti-semitic Nazi, so trusting his word alone on socialism makes no sense. We have every reason not to trust him and no reason to trust him, especially when he contradicts archival evidence on how prisons in the GULAG administration functioned.
As for soviet prisons, they varied quite a lot depending on severity of the crime and location, with many being pretty progressive for the time. Visitation, open air prisons, and a focus on rehabilitation was common. I already linked Russian Justice, but you should absolutely read it.
Yep, Wikipedia is written largely by westerners using western consensus, even if such consensus has inaccuracies or better information is available post-opening of the soviet archives. You can even see it uses the Gulag Archipelago as a source, despite it being a work of fiction.
The .world experience:
- Have different opinion
- Provide evidence for said opinion
- Get a spam of 15 different accounts calling you anywhere from 7 different slurs to Russian troll/bot
- Get banned for “tankie”
- See how Zionists don’t get banned despite defending an ongoing genocide
Well people who make the same excuses as fascists and make excuses for crimes against humanity deserve to be banned, regardless if they are Marxist-Leninist or nazi.
I’ll agree when you fight for the abolition of all western countries for their crimes against humanity.
Why abolition? There are some countries that need reappraisal of their past and need to compensate for it, however it is much more necessary for China, Russia, DPRK and the US. UK also to an extent. EU less so.
All you ever do is defend psychotic dictators and criticize the West when stuff aint as black and white as you pretend it is.
I at least am able to criticize the West just as much as any other country, because yes, western countries could do better. But China, Russia and DPRK aren’t better. I want socialism without the ML bullshit. I want socialism with a human face.
Laugh my fucking ass out. You libs are so oblivious to the countless sins committed by the west. As late as 1960 France was butchering some million Algerians for the unforgivable sin of wanting independence, but sure, China, the country which carried out the greatest industrial revolution and elimination of poverty the world has yet seen, is so much worse.
Last time I checked, there were still not few people living in abject poverty in China and a shitload of people being worked for less than a living wage. Also whats with the rooftop safety nets at Chinese factories. Also China has like the second most billionaires in the world. What kind of “socialist” state is fine with having billionaires?
Last time I checked, there were still not few people living in abject poverty in China and a shitload of people being worked for less than a living wage.
How long ago was that?
- United Nations Secretary-General, 2019: Helping 800 Million People Escape Poverty Was Greatest Such Effort in History, Says Secretary-General, on Seventieth Anniversary of China’s Founding
- Reuters, 2018, China overtakes U.S. for healthy lifespan: WHO data
- The Economist, 2021: At 54, China’s average retirement age is too low
- Bloomberg, 2024: China’s Energy Use Per Person Surpasses Europe’s for First Time
Also whats with the rooftop safety nets at Chinese factories.
That wasn’t a common thing, it’s not a thing now, and it was the result of Foxconn’s illegal labor practices which the “authoritarian” state has since put the kibosh on.
Also China has like the second most billionaires in the world. What kind of “socialist” state is fine with having billionaires?
On the off-chance that your question isn’t rhetorical, previously.
“evidence”
A 150 page conspiracy theory ain’t a prove. Also defending Israels crimes against humanity is not the same as advocating for a reasonable solution.
“Conspiracy theory” for libs is anything that deviates from western state propaganda.
To paraphrase Michael Parenti: teachers and farmers, when they unionize they meet in rooms, and discuss their interests, goals, their plans and their actions to reach these goals, what propaganda they need to create, this is obvious to everyone. But when I suggest that the rich and powerful do the same, they call me a conspiracy theorist.
Lol tankies will take everything from Putin and xi and eat it up like it is the eternal truth.
If you can’t admit that, then you are not better than the consumers of said “western state propoganda”. At least they get to think for themselves.
“Michael Parenti = le evil Asiatic country!!!”
I dunno that dude.
My problem is not with “evil asian countries”
Tankies love the russian and Chinese governments and take everything they say at face value. (.ml instance owner is pro-russia iirc). They are not socialist or communist, but authoritarians. Support for them is what irks me, not the socialist ideals.
A .ml admin even defended North Korea.
Ok, I’ll try and explain the way I see it using an example.
We, in the west, live in a bubble of western propaganda, the same way people in Russia live in a bubble lf Russian propaganda and people in China live in a bubble of Chinese propaganda. Let’s even disregard for a moment the fact that the USA, through arts, films and music, being the largest economic and therefore cultural hegemon of the past century up to today, has influence over everyone else.
When Russia started the war against Ukraine, the Russian propaganda gave as a casus belli to its population the “information” that Ukraine was genociding Russians in Eastern Ukraine. These affirmations stem from the Ukrainian civil war happening since 2014, in which the government and some pro-Russian rebels were fighting in eastern Ukraine, so the Russian government leveraged this and the fact that Russian as a language was removed from the studying plans in Eastern Ukraine, and made big claims of genocide of Russians, propagated all over Russian media. To many Russians within this bubble, all the reputable news sources, journalists, institutions and human right organizations, were giving this information, so they naturally believed it, and if people contradict this, they’re genocide deniers!
As a westerner: what should I do? Take the genocide claims at face value because otherwise I’m a genocide denier? No. I should look at the situation, look, importantly, at independent journalistic work and material evidence coming from the region, and reach a conclusion based on evidence and not on “claims”. There are plenty of Russian testimonies in Russian TV of how they were tortured in Ukraine, how they weren’t allowed to speak their language, how they were bombed for years by Ukraine… But those are just that, testimonies without material evidence. So, do I believe the claims? No, I don’t, I don’t believe Russians were being genocided in eastern Ukraine. I believe that Ukraine, much like my own country of Spain in Catalonia, was violating the right to self determination of people in Eastern Ukraine, and Russia amplified these claims by a factor of 10 and called it a genocide. I’ve seen with my own eyes with the information, independent journalistic work, and video and photographic evidence, what genocide looks like as is being carried out In Palestine, and nothing like that has been proven for Russians In Eastern Ukraine.
I can now repeat this analysis for the western claims of genocide of Uyghurs in Xinjiang by the Chinese government, and reach the same conclusion that nothing remotely like in Palestine is happening, so there is no Uyghur genocide. Is this “taking Chinese propaganda at face value”?
I’m pretty sure I’m banned from .ml.
Badge of honour.
Yep. They’re afraid factual reality might infect their little flock of frightened chicks so they inoculate the entire hen house with “Rule 1” bullshit. Meanwhile, they have no problem allowing vitriol and hatred to spew from their own loyalist goons. And those goons are able to take advantage of the free speech that all the other instances practice because they know that lemmy admins are flaccid an ineffective tools.
.ml needs to be defederated. Let them cry about it in their own little echo chamber.
I’m not even a particularly principled commenter.
Pretty much all I do is shitpost.
“Different opinion” lol complete bullshit as usual
i’d insert
- see what rule 2 is
- wonder why that applies
Actual .ml experience (from a guy who has different opinions):
- have a different opinion
- some marxist-lenninist (or multiple) replies with a massive paragraph with several citations with primary sources proving your opinion incorrect
- realise you were wrong the entire time
- become a marxist-lenninist
Also like come on, I’ve seen you around on .ml and all you want is to stir things up and ignore the evidence that other people provide, or say it’s just wrong without providing any alternative sources.
I have found that ML’s tend to refuse to accept alternative views when supported by similar sources. Almost as if they are not interested in political philosophy or discussion but rather have just memorised doga and get worked up when you push passed their talking points.
Most of the time when this happens it is because you are using western media as evidence. Western media often has tons of mis/disinformation so it’s best to stick to primary sources or sources that reference primary sources.
If I’m wrong I’m happy for you to provide an example, I’m sure there are some because not all .ml people are reasonable, just like not everyone on any instance.
All i got was a quote of his ex-wife and an evaluation of another book. So please stick to the facts.
Honestly these kinds of posts don’t bother me. I’m usually on here answering people’s tech questions or trying to provide useful resources to people. If they don’t see it because they have ml blanket blocked then that’s their loss.
Yeah, there are plenty people who ended up there early when they’re weren’t many other options. Or just didn’t know. Though it’s your loss as well. Cut off from several instances for the behavior of others. It definitely sucks.
Sure, but seeing posts like this encouraging discounting other people based on the instance they signed up on doesn’t make me want to switch instances so I can spend more time with them. Posts like these make it harder to care about what I’m missing tbh.
If we’re missing more animosity like this thread then we’re probably not missing much at all.
Cut off from several instances
which instances?
one of the best parts about lemmy.ml is no cm000spam
What is this in reference to?
there’s a user (cm0002) who is so fervently anti-communist that they’ve spent years at this point having a vendetta with lemmy.ml/grad/hexbear.
for the longest time they were taking anything posted to a .ml community vias rss feed and reposting it on .world/or other instances out of spite
they also churn through accounts, so people who block them get to re-block them on every new account they spin up
who is so fervently anti-communist
Nope, Anti authoritarian as per the Wikipedia definition for Tankie:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support or defend acts of repression by such regimes, their allies, or deny the occurrence of the events thereof.
for the longest time they were taking anything posted to a .ml community vias rss feed and reposting it on .world/or other instances out of spite
Still ongoing, with reasoning supplied here:
Why am I cross-posting .ml content?
I cross-post from .ml to the nearest relevant non-.ml comm to reduce the influence of .ml comms and indirectly, the instance as a whole, to make it an easier decision for other instance admins to defederate because one key reason I identified that admins don’t want to defederate is because .ml still has some very large comms and some niche comms.
Some highlights from the link:
"Don’t worry guys, the Uyghur Genocide was REALLY just birth control! ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/30580167
“See! nobody died IN Tiananmen Square, just AROUND it, so it doesn’t count!!” ~ Davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/30673342
.ml admin, Nutomics continued transphobia https://lemmy.world/post/29222558 The original transphobic Comment from Nutomic: https://lemmy.world/post/18236068
“NK is actually good and anything counter to that is Western propaganda!” ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/31595035
General negative sentiment to other instances who haven’t “seen the way” yet ~davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/27426510
“If you don’t support Russia then you just don’t understand geopolitics” ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/27352415
And so so much documentation on clear heavy handed censorship and bias also on the link. So much I can’t even put them all here because this comment would be really long.
I believe the behavior of its admins (the main admins are Lemmy devs) does harm to the overall growth of the Lemmy-verse and maybe even the Thrediverse (since Lemmy kinda kicked off the Thrediverse) because of its association with the devs of Lemmy and their insistence to use .ml as their personal political platform to spread harmful propaganda
On the outside, bringing up Lemmy frequently leads to comments like “Lemmy? Isn’t that the place with a bunch of tankies?” Or “Tried Lemmy, but found it full of pro Russia crap so I left”. The best way forward from that I see is to either widely defederate from .ml like the rest of the Triad, or pressure them to put a fair and unbiased as possible admin team.
they also churn through accounts, so people who block them get to re-block them on every new account they spin up
I had my unrelated reasons, as I’ve specified before, though trolling .ml for a lil while was a fun side effect I’ll admit
This:
Why am I cross-posting .ml content?
I cross-post from .ml to the nearest relevant non-.ml comm to reduce the influence of .ml comms and indirectly, the instance as a whole, to make it an easier decision for other instance admins to defederate because one key reason I identified that admins don’t want to defederate is because .ml still has some very large comms and some niche comms.
Some highlights from the link:
"Don’t worry guys, the Uyghur Genocide was REALLY just birth control! ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/30580167
“See! nobody died IN Tiananmen Square, just AROUND it, so it doesn’t count!!” ~ Davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/30673342
.ml admin, Nutomics continued transphobia https://lemmy.world/post/29222558 The original transphobic Comment from Nutomic: https://lemmy.world/post/18236068
“NK is actually good and anything counter to that is Western propaganda!” ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/31595035
General negative sentiment to other instances who haven’t “seen the way” yet ~davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/27426510
“If you don’t support Russia then you just don’t understand geopolitics” ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/27352415
And so so much documentation on clear heavy handed censorship and bias also on the link. So much I can’t even put them all here because this comment would be really long.
I believe the behavior of its admins (the main admins are Lemmy devs) does harm to the overall growth of the Lemmy-verse and maybe even the Thrediverse (since Lemmy kinda kicked off the Thrediverse) because of its association with the devs of Lemmy and their insistence to use .ml as their personal political platform to spread harmful propaganda
On the outside, bringing up Lemmy frequently leads to comments like “Lemmy? Isn’t that the place with a bunch of tankies?” Or “Tried Lemmy, but found it full of pro Russia crap so I left”. The best way forward from that I see is to either widely defederate from .ml like the rest of the Triad, or pressure them to put a fair and unbiased as possible admin team.
Seems pretty reasonable really.
That said, about this:
or pressure them to put a fair and unbiased as possible admin team.
I’m not sure fair or unbiased really have meaning as terms. I think its more that they seem strong handed and are alleged to have opinions based on propaganda rather than fact.
I definitely think the main developer publicly having those opinions is awful though. Projects have had drops in support for less.
I definitely think the main developer publicly having those opinions is awful though. Projects have had drops in support for less.
To be clear, it’s the fact that they run what many on the outside perceive to be “the flagship” instance. Had they run an instance in the same manner, but with their admin profiles and identities disconnected from their dev accounts…we wouldn’t be here right now.
Then it would be easy to dismiss the Triad when advocating the Threadiverse to mainstream users as just “random instances that many others block”, just like hex and grad
I mean, you can say that, but its not really their loss, because you’re asking them to accept a lot more than just you.
It’s a package deal, and that package deal includes a boatload of clueless tankies who will happily copypasta the most outlandish ideas from their troves of propaganda to explain why actually brutal dictatorships are model societies for the left to ascribe to.
When I say I don’t usually engage with these types of posts, it’s because I remember several others like it that I chose to ignore. Checking OPs history, it seems they posted every other one that I remember. I don’t count it as a loss at all if people like this make their own decision to block ml because I’d rather not see this kind of drama all the time. It doesn’t matter to me if they see it as a loss or a gain, I’m still gonna be here engaging with and helping people who need help in various communities. To me it’s not a loss if someone isn’t able to receive my help if they decide that it’s not worth it to them - that’s their decision to make, and I’d rather not worry about people who are going to behave like OP.
The constant handwringing and wishing about ml users suffering more from being blocked because you don’t like certain users honestly reeks of a sore ex who wants to twist the knife. If ml bothers certain users (I’m looking at OP especially) then just block ml and stop posting about it repeatedly (looking at you OP).
To me it’s not a loss if someone isn’t able to receive my help if they decide that it’s not worth it to them - that’s their decision to make
You specifically said
then that’s their loss.
though. Like they’re missing out.
The constant handwringing and wishing about ml users suffering more from being blocked because you don’t like certain users
That seems like you’re going out of your way to ascribe malice to people who don’t want to be inundated with a certain type of tankie as if their goals are to hurt people as opposed to not be annoyed by their feeds.
honestly reeks of a sore ex who wants to twist the knife. If ml bothers certain users (I’m looking at OP especially) then just block ml and stop posting about it repeatedly (looking at you OP).
You can’t think of any reasons someone might not want to block but might still complain?
I mean here you are simultaneously advocating for not throwing out the baby with the bathwater when it comes to ml users, but then in the same breathe, you are saying people should simply block ml if they have complaints.
It doesn’t seem consistent to me.
More than that, people can choose which instance they want to be on. You could switch to a different instance at any time, and many people have accounts on multiple instances.
With no public vote scores etc, all you lose is a post history that is spotty anyways due to how many posts get deleted on lemmy.
To me it’s not a loss
I think it’s a loss to other people
These are not mutually exclusive and not contradictory at all
That seems like you’re going out of your way to ascribe malice
Do you not see the post at the top of this thread??
You can’t think of any reasons someone might not want to block but might still complain?
Imo this is not complaining, this is shit stirring. This meme isn’t even acknowledging that there are multiple types of people on ml, but advocates for treating everyone the same. Do you not see an issue with that?
I mean here you are simultaneously advocating for not throwing out the baby with the bathwater
This is your assumption. All I’ve said here is that I don’t care, I’m only commenting because this is the 3rd shit stirring post made by this OP, and I consider it a loss to those who block ml, but not to me. I’ve glossed over multiple posts like this from OP in the past so I clearly do not care if people view ml like this, it only reinforces the fact that I’m not missing anything by not being able to engage with people who are this immature.
These are not mutually exclusive and not contradictory at all
I mean the first one said its not a loss generally, not specifically but I can accept that you meant it differently than typed.
Imo this is not complaining, this is shit stirring. This meme isn’t even acknowledging that there are multiple types of people on ml, but advocates for treating everyone the same. Do you not see an issue with that?
I don’t think this has the full context.
You can’t really conveniently sort tankie from non tankie.
ml is a self choosen label though, so people can choose not to use it.
This is your assumption.
How is it an assumption at all? You literally say it again here where you advocate for not treating everyone the same.
All I’ve said here is that I don’t care
You’ve spent multiple comments expressing that lack of care… which doesn’t make it seem like you don’t care, but instead makes it seem like this bugs you because you feel its unfair, and you’ve said as much here.
it only reinforces the fact that I’m not missing anything by not being able to engage with people who are this immature.
But you are engaging with them… I am very confused. The people you are seeing the memes of are the people you are engaging with. The others, they probably aren’t posting about this and simply have it toggled off.
Mightn’t this be a case of the loud ones being the people who are complaining vs the silent who simply have moved on?
Anyhow, I just think its impossible to ignore that certain servers obviously follow some cultural trends. Some are even enforced by said servers and its communities. Many really, when you think about it (Its kinda what rules do to some extent).
but I can accept that you meant it differently than typed.
I did not mean it differently than typed. I said “to me it’s not a loss” and I mean that. To me it’s not a loss, to them it is.
ml is a self choosen label though, so people can choose not to use it.
And people can choose to treat people the same based on that label, and I can choose to think it’s immature. And at the same time I can not care if people choose to cut themselves off from ml.
You literally say it again here where you advocate for not treating everyone the same
No, I advocate for not dismissing people solely based on their chosen instance without taking into account their actual views. I do not advocate against blocking ml entirely, because I don’t view being cut off from people who make those types of assumptions as a loss for me.
You’ve spent multiple comments expressing that lack of care… which doesn’t make it seem like you don’t care, but instead makes it seem like this bugs you because you feel its unfair, and you’ve said as much here.
Only because you and other people have spent multiple comments not understanding me so I’m only repeating myself. I’m only commenting because this is the third shit stirring post by the same user, and I only chimed in to another ml user that I’m not bothered if people decide to block ml because it’s a win to me to avoid immature people and in my view a loss to others because I spend most of my time on lemmy giving tech support to others.
But you are engaging with them… I am very confused
No, I engaged with someone else on ml, and then you couldn’t resist engaging with me. I don’t see what’s confusing about this. I don’t think I’m missing anything by not being able to engage with this post. Yet it’s here, so I’m engaging with it. That doesn’t mean I value this engagement or would miss it at all. Let me again repeat that my preference is to ignore these types of posts, which is why I refrained from commenting on the other similar posts OP has made in the past. It’s kind of silly to assume that engagement means you necessarily value the content.
Do you similarly think engaging with a racist by arguing with them means you must also value their content or presence? Of course not. Chiming in to say that I would not miss them, but also disagree with their views, is not contradictory.
Anyhow, I think I’ll go back to ignoring these types of posts. I think this kind of blanket assumption about people based on their instance is a net negative to the community. That said, I don’t think it’s at all inconsistent to both view OPs attitude as immature while simultaneously not caring if they decide to block ml, precisely because being blocked by immature people is not a net negative to me.
Merry Christmas!
There is a specter haunting the fediverse 👻
Your name and profile pic always starts to make me think of the OST from the first game, and it always cheer me up.
Whinging about lemmy.ml yet again are you? Speaking of making the fediverse more enjoyable, it’s a good idea to ignore folks who love to stir the pot and create fediverse drama.
My last .ml meme was 2 months ago. I guess I should be proud that it bugged you enough to burn into your memory like that?
But yeah, warning new fediverse users that there are awful places and the whole fediverse ain’t like that, well, that seems a polite way to improve the user experience and help new folks.
I love my city but I also generally warn visitors about our open air shooting gallery a few hundred meters away from the entertainment district for much the same reason.
Says the .World-ers
.world has its share of awful and part of why I rock piefed, but I chalk a lot of that up to essentially being the default instance.
There is some slight irony to the idea that hardline .ml users consider themselves champions of the proletariat, while so vehemently disagreeing with the “normie” instance where most of the people are.
.world is far from perfect though, I’ll agree. I’m mainly just here because Lemmy.ml (the first instance recommended to me) rejected my application, while .world (the second one recommended to me) allows everyone.
“The masses are the real heroes, while we ourselves are often childish and ignorant, and without this understanding, it is impossible to acquire even the most rudimentary knowledge.” - Mao Zedong
if you were a real leftist you would act like the majority of us at this nazi bar want you to
Isn’t that the same accusation that people throw out about Lemmy.ml though? It’s a reductionist meme at this point. If you honestly think the entire instance is a Nazi bar, why not just filter it out entirely instead of engaging with Nazis?
Like I said, I signed up for Lemmy.ml first. The admins rejected my application for reasons they would not disclose. I don’t know if it’s that they just didn’t like my username/email or whatever, but I tried a couple times and got the same result each time.
I settled on Lemmy.world barring the first option, because I was tired of applying and waiting just to keep getting rejections, and a friend had told me this instance just accepts everyone. So I figured why not?
But why advocate cooperation and mutual support on the fediverse when we can just foster more infighting based on tribalism, I guess?
Their point isn’t that Lemmy.ml is a Nazi bar, but that leftists should behave like the so-called “Nazis” at Lemmy.ml. We are communists, not Nazis, and are diametrically opposed to fascism.
As for why not Lemmy.world, it comes with the majority of Marxists pre-censored for you, which for me is bad.
I was calling .world a nazi bar demanding the .ml leftists behave according to their preferences
There is some slight irony to the idea that hardline .ml users consider themselves champions of the proletariat, while so vehemently disagreeing with the “normie” instance where most of the people are.
Ah, gotcha, my misunderstanding.
Then please recommend the .ml admins approve my application this time.
Until then, I could do with less patronizing about circumstances beyond my control.
You can probably message them directly.
Mao is correct in saying that communists need to learn from the masses. He’s talking about the Mass Line, an organizational tool to help keep the communist party linked with the masses and avoid tailism or commandism. However, that doesn’t mean liberalism is correct, because there are more liberals. Mao also wrote Combat Liberalism, in which he talks about the necessity of ideological struggle within the party, and proper agitation among the masses to lead them to correct theory and practice, as is the utility of the vanguard.
In your quoted text, Mao is fighting those members of the communist party that shirked their duties and looked at themselves as above the masses, a small but relevant issue within the CPC at the time. He isn’t saying to abandon Marxism or teaching about Marxism in favor of whatever is most popular.
In your quoted text, Mao is fighting those members of the communist party that shirked their duties and looked at themselves as above the masses, a small but relevant issue within the CPC at the time.
That is the analogy I was looking to make, yes.
Liberals on Lemmy.world are ideologically wrong. Lemmy.ml is also made up of largely working class people. Mao’s point is not that anything that is popular is correct, but that the working classes better understand the world through direct practice, life-activity. The conflict between Lemmy.world and Lemmy.ml isn’t because communists refuse to see the wisdom of the working classes, but because in areas where liberals and communists disagree, the liberals are incorrect. Wisdom comes from the working classes engaging in direct practice, yes, but this practice needs to be guided by correct theory, otherwise it’s just vulgar empiricism rather than dialectical materialism.
But you don’t achieve wisdom by cloistering yourself apart from the out-group to create a neo-intelligentsia that treats theory as scripture and prioritizes only the aesthetics of revolution while ignoring the plight of the uneducated masses as a lost cause. That is the idea I am critical of (not you per se, but the behavior I’ve seen from a lot of others around the fediverse who care more about tribalism based on nothing more than the instance someone calls home).
I’m just here for a forum, not a soapbox.
Ok, I am also here for some memes, too. Life sucks without laughter.
We don’t cloister ourselves, nor are we a “neo-intelligentsia.” Theory isn’t scripture, and we don’t prioritize aesthetics while ignoring the plight of the masses. I even made an introductory ML reading list to help out with theory. I just don’t see the issues you see here.
.ml was the “default” when I joined. Been eyeing mbin, had an account on kbin too, but sadly it went offline.
Join us, shit just works over here and no one thinks about us. It’s safe
I still don’t know what any of this means
quality advice masquerading as a meme
The best jokes have a lot of truth to them!
I was wondering why so many tankies dominated that instance.
ML meaning “Marxist-Leninists” makes so much more sense now.
What a bunch of assholes.
it actually stands for country of Mali but tankies are right there engaging in imperialism and failing to see the irony lol
The best part. ML losers got the domain because “paying 5$ a year for TLD is capitalism!” and then in 2023 free .ml domains were discontinued because surprise surprise - it was a stupid idea lmao
What a bunch of mega losers lemmy.ml is.
Using cheap/free options to get an open source non-profit social media app off the ground is imperialism now 😭
Poor Mali deserves reparations for the domain name we ripped from their children, all posts shall now start with a land acknowledgement 😂
God you guys are hilarious sometimes
TLD is 5$ per year - the decision is purely vanity and nothing about this is smart or practical.
US liberals are so upset when they hear anything to the left of AOC.
US Liberals are upset when they see anyone further left than Ronald Reagan
Pretending Russia, China and NK are flawless just because they’re (former) communist countries isn’t left of AOC, it’s just plain idioicy and propaganda.
You’re making things up to be mad about. Nobody pretends that those countries are flawless. You just can’t seem to handle the idea that none of those countries are 1/10 the threat to the world that the US is.
I’ve repeatedly seen posts on lemmy.ml defending Russia and NK, both brutal dictatorships that tread on human rights with feet, so no. I am most certainly not making stuff up
Defending them isn’t the same as saying they are flawless. What is the point of criticizing North Korea? Especially from a country like the US who does far more harm to the world than either NK or Russia.
Just because the US is a pile of crap doesn’t make it remotely acceptable to defend brutal dictatorships that will arrest you for simply being gay. Or throw you out of a window if you complain about their dear leader too much.
When I say “defend” I don’t mean a blanket defense. There are good criticisms to make, some of which you’ve highlighted. Unfortunately, such criticisms are too often used as excuses to write off those countries entirely, and to justify any and all attacks on them. For example, I often hear it said that I shouldn’t defend Palestinians, because they are anti gay. This is meant to distract us from the even greater evil occurring. You can do this with literally any country, which would mean that it isn’t “remotely acceptable to defend” any of them.
Except I’ve literally seen several of those blanket defenses on ml, as well as posts claiming that these countries aren’t even dictatorships, as well as posts justifying and defending Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and placing the blame for the continuing war on Ukraine for not surrendering. All of which I’ve seen posted, and upvoted uncritically on ml
Pretending that Marxist-Leninists have Leftist beliefs is cute. That workers have no self-determination and have to tow the party line under threat of violence is the dead giveaway
What not reading and uncritically swallowing western propaganda does to a MF
Here’s one of the bootlickers now. Bro, you’re a right winger obsessed with collectivization. Quit stinking up the revolution with your nonsense.
Quit stinking up the revolution with your CIA indoctrinated understanding of “authoritarianism” and your non materialist way of understanding history. To you, European social-democracy isn’t authoritarian because you happen not to live in the lands affected by neocolonialism.
The communist party is run by the working classes and derives its power from popular support. The people oppressed by communist parties were overwhelmingly fascists, landlords, and capitalists.
Communists are rich people who are privileged enough to not work and spend all day larping. They dont know working class people they’ve never met any.
I’m a communist and that’s false for me and every communist I know IRL that I work with, and is also false on an international scale. Communist parties are working class parties.
Communists love to wear working class struggle as a disguise. They aren’t working class and once they get power they use and abuse them just like every other rich cunt.
This is nonsense. Communists seek collectivization of production and distribution to satisfy the needs of all, and when communists take power the first things they do is implement measures like land reform, literacy campaigns, and expropriate property from landlords and capitalists to better serve the interests of the people.
First thing they do is strip rights away from people. Second thing they do is start erasing history. Third is increasing police forces to crack down on any dissent.
Communists serve the communist party not the people.
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That problem is that not all communists were made equal. I’ve heard plenty of communists talk that I can respect but MLs aren’t the ones. Bolsheviks always managed to get their needs especially met and before anyone elses needs.
Some communists, not all communists.
Nah pretty safe to say all.
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Most of my friends are some flavor of Anarchist or Socialist. Of the two outright Commies that I’ve known (who described themselves as such) one was a man of the people and the other was a lazy spoiled phony who’s communism expressed itself mainly as sharing memes on facebook.
Out right lies. The communist parties (the ones that have existed, not the the theoretical ones) derive their power from threat of violence against workers. They’re a non-hereditary nobility that oppress workers (except North Korea which is now a hereditary monarchy).
Incorrect, on all counts. Communist parties derive their power from popular support from the working classes, as they themselves are working class. State violence is used against fascists, sabateurs, capitalists, and landlords. If they truly were a nobility concerned only with oppressing workers, then you have to prove why there was such dramatic improvements in social welfare, poverty eradication, key life metrics, studied Marxism and taught it in universities, and more. Certainly these would have been of no importance to a new ruling class?
You’re dramatically incorrect here.
Related to your post: I’ve seen people from Lemmy.ml defend imperialist behaviour from Russia and China. Surely the left is supposed to oppose imperialism - whether it’s from the US, Europe, Russia, China, or anywhere else.
It won’t matter in the end. Their shitty Colombus Epoch is coming to an end
What in the universe are you envisioning?
What I’ve learned is that Reddit.world allows for rule breaking as long as you’re punching left, but if you’re the one being beat on and you defend yourself you’ll be banned for wrongthink.
The tell-tale indicator is the post itself, not the instance.
I’ll make my own judgments, thank you.I really need to get off .ml
A few crazies ruin it for the rest of us. I’m riding it out, I’ve been here longer than most of them 😂
I jumped in .ml by random and it’s crazy how had the hate is. If you find a good intance DM me sir.
It’s weird, I hopped off ML due to how much hate other users were giving me, but I never actually experienced anything from the ML users themselves. I did stay off the politics subs, so that’s maybe why, but it was genuinely quite a chill instance for me.
Anyway I’m on UK now, and people seem to treat me nicer
It’s similar in Lemmygrad.ml and Hexbear.net. Very chill usually, it’s the hatred they get from liberal-aligned instances that sparks all of the drama.
I agree. Whenever there’s a post about .ml users it comes from .world.
I understand if there’s political differences, but they incessantly try to vilify the whole instance.
You let them bully you into changing instances lol
I did. Have you not met some of these people? I’ve got kids, man
Weak
Early on I poked around ml, and it wasn’t so much hate but more like some really… interesting views on how to organize politically
It boiled down to “unite the workers of the world and seize the means of production”, but like… That was it. No answer to how to do that, or what to do next
The most annoying part was honestly just how hard some of them simp for China and Russia, sometimes even North Korea
Marxists absolutely have advice on how to organize, the problem is that it’s very regional. Some parties are good, others are horrid, but the basics are to find a good organization local to you and join it. Protesting, reading theory, doing direct action and mutual aid, unionizing and striking, all are good ways to organize.
None of us “simp” for the PRC or DPRK, and certainly not for the Russian Federation. We support socialist countries and critically support those working against the US empire.
Yeah, I have to admit the anti-US sentiment did align nicely with my eurocentric views. But the pro-Russia and pro-China sentiment did not jell with me very well, and was a factor of why I left
There’s very little disagreement among .ml users because .ml is so heavily moderated. As an insider, it looks like calm waters all around you. But other instances easily see the dissent getting quashed, and only deal with the .ml users spouting insane comments on non-ml communities.
That’s fair. Again, I never saw any of that. It was just the calm waters
So funny story guys, I was hanging out at a Nazi bar but they weren’t all that bad. In fact, they even bought me some drinks. The real problem was all the people outside the bar that would harass me with comments like, “why are you hanging with Nazis.”
Equating communists with Nazis is a form of Holocaust trivialization called “Double Genocide Theory.”
So funny story guys, I was minding my own business at literally the main bar downtown, when a bunch of hard-right nutjobs threw gin in my face and called me a nazi saying “don’t you know who owns this bar”. Bitch, I was just having a drink at the first bar in town.
Anyway, I learned to stay clear of the bar they were asking me to join instead, because who in their right mind joins a bunch of random wackos throwing gin in people’s faces.
I guess the Swastika and picture of Hitler was just their way of “decorating”.
Again, communists and Nazis are diametrically opposed.
It’s funny, I only ever saw you guys putting those up
Oh I have been abused by .ml community many times with their BS and Alts.
You know who hasn’t lied and treated me like shit? People posting anti .ml memes.
Get bent with you apologizing nonsense. I also like how you frame yourself as the victim which is typical right wing nonsense.
Lemmy.ca has been fantastic
dbzer0!
. Zip is deec
zips good, moved here when ee died
