Give me any nazi atrocity and I can provide an example of the US doing it, and probably far worse and on a larger scale.
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The US nearly completely wiped out the indigenous people who lived there
When European settlers arrived in the Americas, historians estimate there were over 10 million Native Americans living there. By 1900, their estimated population was under 300,000. Native Americans were subjected to many different forms of violence, all with the intention of destroying the community. In the late 1800s, blankets from smallpox patients were distributed to Native Americans in order to spread disease. There were several wars, and violence was encouraged; for example, European settlers were paid for each Penobscot person they killed. In the 19th century, 4,000 Cherokee people died on the Trail of Tears, a forced march from the southern U.S. to Oklahoma. In the 20th century, civil rights violations were common, and discrimination continues to this day.
Multiple millions of people were captured in Africa and sold as slaves as well
They also partook in widespread ecocide to starve the natives. They deliberately killed every buffalo they could and let them out to rot.
Gosh, I guess we should talk about the British then as well.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/12/2/how-british-colonial-policy-killed-100-million-indians
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The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed.
Disgusting take, acting as if genocide was not colonial policy. You desperately need to read Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz - an indigenous people’s history of the US.
Thanks for the recommendation comrade, I’ll add it to my list
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The vast majority of these people died before the US even conceptually existed.
Germany didn’t write the holocaust out of their history like Americans did.
To mock the line I keep seeing in this thread full of apologists: Nazi Germany wasn’t quite there yet. They would have been as bad as the US if they had time.
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Nazi Germany literally modeled their society off of the United States from Jim Crow apartheid to the frontier genocide.
You’re wrong. It’s not a contest. If they had been allowed to ‘let things that happened a hundred years ago fade away’ like they were planning THEN it would be a contest because they would have succeeded in creating a European America.
The project of Nazi Germany is literally the same project as Israel is literally the same project as America
It is exactly one thing: Settler colonialism and the only difference is the conditions of when and where and who. But that only goes as far as the particulars.
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Even if you take the most extreme interpretation of US responsibility possible (eg adding another 1-1.7 million people for “luring” the Soviet Union into attacking Afghanistan), you don’t get to 25 million
Bullshit. One single US (+EU) policy, economic sanctions, has murdered 38 million in the past 50 Years and keeps murdering 500k yearly. One single policy.
Yeah nazi Germany was around for 13 years ish. I’m not saying there’s no comparison, I’m just saying there’s no comparison, yet.
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According to you, is there Apartheid in Venezuela? Hell, the US and Israel tried to keep the regime in South Africa going for as long as they could, so it doesn’t even make much sense. Not only that, but sanctions STILL cause the deaths of over 500k people a year. People like you and me. Stop defending imperialism and mass death.
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Broad estimates of US war victims range up to 12 million (a liberal estimate), whereas the Nazis killed over 13 million through mass killings alone (eg the Holocaust + exterminated minorities). The Soviet Union alone lost 20 to 27 million depending on who you ask.
In addition to the 500k-millions of native peoples and hundreds of tribes the US systematically nearly eradicated, lets take just a few more examples.
- Vietnam: 1.5M killed
- Laos: 300k
- Iraq: 1M
- Indonesia: 500k-1M
- Korea: 500k
- Japan: 200k-1M in civilian bombings
And I haven’t even started on operation condor and latin america yet.
And US America is still going, the worst is yet to come
The real tragedy is that of the victims who got stuck in the middle between two doctrines hell-bent on global domination.
The case of Imperial Japan is equivalent to that of Nazi Germany. A fascist regime that saw millions intentionally slaughtered and worked to death across Asia.
Here are some links for reading more about the killings related to:
This popped up in my feed today:
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I hope you take a moment and reflect on why you insist on approaching comparative history in this way.
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Simply trying to compare kill counts like history is call of duty only serves to dehumanize the victims.
In my view, just one aspect of the U.S. makes it the worst country ever: its role in the ecological crisis. The us is like three corporations in a trench coat, and a us corporation knew about anthropogenic climate change and kept that internal, and that’s just one instance of fuckery where there are plenty more. That’s the international elephant in the room which nobody seems willing to talk about. We need to also consider all the future atrocities as well as those in the past.
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Killing 6 million jewish people?
Killed an entire continent of peoples and enslaved millions of people from another one to make agricultural commodities.
Also during ww2 the US refused a ship of jews fleeing nazi germany and made them return.
They also won’t make anti-semitism illegal cause freeze peach, so US cops often protect white supremacist groups during protests from righteously outraged ppl. US cops also often recruit directly from those groups, and use them to carry out illegal things actions they don’t want to be responsible for. There isn’t enough space here to even get into the US’s anti-semitic past.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_genocide_in_the_United_States - 4+ million Native Americans killed in a time when overall populations where much lower. If that number were scaled to the 20th century population it would be an order of magnitude higher.
At once, in a assembly way or specifically targeting Jewish people?
Plus it’s not like they were cool with those trying to escape Germany. And chance would have sided with Germany if Britain had fallen.
The US has done many horrible things, but that’s an awful list to go by. It mixes US involvement in the Philippines and the nightmare that was with “Israel killed someone and it’s likely the US was aware”, NATO involvement in Bosnia, and the US usage of radio and press releases to influence world opinion in its favor.
Specific incidents in Bosnia? Certainly. But on the face of it, the US joining with other nations to intervene in an ethnically driven civil war isn’t an attrocity. The US being aware of an Israeli operation isn’t a US attrocity. Propaganda isn’t an attrocity.
Hell, one entry literally seemed to be “American soldiers reported a South Korean war crime through appropriate channels, and this didn’t change US foreign policy”Mixing actual attrocities in with the benign or unrelated things just dilutes the actual attrocities, particularly when the preamble says to play up to emotional outrage.
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Boycott Hilton until they start exercising their third amendment rights.
I’ve decided to book at another chain because of this event
I’m not even booking in the US, but still, Hilton is Hilton. you take that risk by using the name.
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Hilton welcomes nazis - gotcha.
Don’t expect corporations to take a moral stance. They will always chose what they consider is more profitable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_involved_in_the_Holocaust - this is just for the Holocaust specifically. A list of companies collaborating with the Nazi regime would simply coincide with all the existing businesses at the time.
its been known to be worse than germany for hundreds of years, hitler based his concentration camps and the holocaust in part on the american treatment of indigenous people.
they killed tens of millions of people with muskets, 6 shooters, repeaters, and disease, on horses, and trains. all the while enslaving an entire race of human beings in the process. which arguably was the main reason they could enrich and modernize their country in the first place. free labour.
america has always ALWAYS been the bad guy. they just had really really good “marketing” and military strength for the last century.
what is happening now are the final flailings of a dying empire. it will stretch itself thin, bankrupt itself, crash the dollar, fuck the global economy, and be picked apart by oligarchs until mentioning the word “union” gets you shot on the spot, not by a robot police officer, but your fellow “patriot” between spoon fulls of soylent green.
the rot is far too deep, and the purification of chaos is, unfortunately, the only remedy, and an imminant one at that. whether we agree or not, like it or not, its coming, its here. and thats just the way it has to be, apparantly.
any social progress may have to wait a few decades, maybe even centuries depending on the outcome of WW3. if at all.
but, EVENTUALLY, if we survive it. there will be a social revolution, and hopefully that one creates a better life for those alive to live it. likely still just a handfull will enjoy everything life has to offer and more. but maybe, just maybe the masses will take back whats theirs and live fully again.
Fuckin’ hell, I feel like a kid in 2226 reading this on some kind of wall plaque after it was discovered in the cautionary history archives that survived the great fires. I think it struck me when I read this line:
the rot is far too deep, and the purification of chaos is, unfortunately, the only remedy
It’s just a very elegant way to describe the btshit craziness of living in “interesting times.”
Oh and hey future people who have presumably learned to be excellent to one another: put me in the plaque! It’s a thing we used to do on this old internet here with screenshots, you see.
Cool, can we fast forward to the hangings pls?
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Operation Paperclip brought over 1600 Germans including many Nazi scientists and leadership into the US to provide engineering for the US military and politically engineer the 50 year fascist project starting with Dulles and solidifying total control under W Bush. The CIA which was created by merging the OSS with literal Nazi’s had the leader of the agency George Bush Sr, become president.
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I don’t think it is understandable to bring Nazi leadership into your country and allow them to develop a military 🤷♀️
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The “understandable” veneer is that they were all apolitical scientists who only wanted to do more science.
Of course that’s not true, but that’s how it’s taught in schools.
Won’t matter.
I rather see a Cyberpunk2077 future happening
Considering the country was founded on the greatest genocide history has ever seen and chattel slavery, this should have been the case the whole time.
Meanwhile people in US:
Not a lot of people think it’s fine, but nobody a tually has a clue what to do/ doesn’t want to start it
The solution is to organize. PSL already organized protests across dozens of major cities, and is constantly recruiting.
i’ve learned the hard way that some nuero-divergent behaviors (like mine) sow distrust within neuro-typical people who won’t let you help organize w them out of instinctual fear.
the last times i tried with the greens; lgbtq center in san jose; and the gmhc in new york; they had me spending the overwhelming majority of my time picking up garbage in parking lots and roads by myself.
the last 2 times were galling because i was a software engineer at the time w 10+ years of experience in IT and offered my services as a response to their advertised needs for IT & web developers/admins; yet i was only picking up garbage alone 95% of the time.
I’m sorry to hear that, comrade. Lack of party discipline in how neurodivergent comrades are treated is a sign of serious problems witu the org itself.
That’s a terrible way to be treated. I hope you have a better experience if you ever choose to try again.
fortunately my neurodivergence makes me forget A LOT so it’s likely that i will try again. lol
Haha I relate to that. I recently started applying to something, got hung up on a question, and realized I had started the process already and gotten hung up on the same spot
story of my life lol.
that’s why i put myself into that volunteering situation again despite the bitter taste of the first one and also why i been trying to finish a book series by s.m. sterling for the last 25 years; every time i try, i run into hand written notes from me in the past telling me that i need to read the previous book to remember what’s going on.
Fascists gonna fascist i guess 💁♂️
Can read. Not upset. We probably kill more innocent s since the fall of the third riech then they have.
I seriously doubt that unless they ramp up their shit a lot
The US Empire is dying, when it finally caves the spotlight will be on the constant genocide, plunder, and warmongering this empire did.
British Empire is dead and buried but most wouldn’t consider them worse than Nazi Germany
It’s merely vassalized, not dead and buried. The UK is still imperialist.
I’m not sure what that matters for the topic at hand.
The British Empire is neither gone nor forgotten.
The whole point was if they’re going to be viewed worse than Nazi Germany. Do you feel like there’s a point where the empire is gone and people will switch to thinking of it worse than Nazi Germany?
It hasn’t happened yet and I don’t see it happening tbh.
Depends on who you ask.
Is it possible that you can’t see the opinion changing because it is a very slow process that you are only living through a portion of? I’ve noticed more people mentioning the Bengal famine when Churchill is lionized, for example.
I don’t consider them as worse than Nazi Germany, but I consider them as pretty bad.
The massacres and famines in India comes to mind.
The wars in China to keep selling them opium.
And the fact that Nazi Germany had to hide the genocide from the general population, but when a Britiah military officer massacred civilians, they were bailed and cheered on by the general population is a nuance to the idea that the British Empire was better in every regard.
The Nazis were inspired by what went on in America. Genocide, concentration camps, segregation, forced sterilization, taking the children, etc
Tbf no eurocentric history book will mention the invasions and murders in slightly browner countries or the private companies’ colonization that follow.
They will just mention cold war mostly.
lol worse than Nazi Germany?
Kids got no perspective nowadays if you thinking this is anything like that
You have no fucking perspective. As I wrote below half of my family is from a country where US imperial troops are responsible for the deaths of over a million people, destroying one of the oldest centers of knowledge and education, and taking a country previously known for training first-class doctors and sending them around the world to train to a place where people are struggling to survive with a literacy crisis. We already think they’re as bad. If you don’t think they are close to Nazi Germany you sound like white supremacist who doesn’t view people outside US/EU as humans.
Yeah nazi germany is definitely worse, they killed a bunch of WHITE PEOPLE, there is no worse sin than that.
Nazi germany explicitly tried to copy the US project (lebensraum evicting eastern europe, rather than manifest destiny evicting native americans), and failed.
The only reason nazi germany is demonized more than the US, is because they lost. The US has committed far more atrocities, and on a larger scale.
I am not sure whether we need a peeing contest who did/is doing worse. The immense suffering endured by individuals are uncomparable imho.
That being said, I recommend everyone to read “The Banality of Evil” by Hannah Arendt and to review the social experiments that were conducted to understand how average Germans were able to commit genocide. The dark truth is: you are likely able, too.
We are all responsible to prevent this.
Based on the reports of torture and abuse out of, “Alligator Alcatraz,” (God I fucking hate having to use that stupid fucking name), we are certainly heading there. They described torture techniques similar to CECOT, including denial of medical treatment. We don’t know what’s happening inside ICE detention facilities, but an alarming number of detainees are dying. We just kidnapped a sovereign head of state, and Trump is actively talking about doing the same to other nations.
Things don’t start at the end. There were six years between Hitler’s appointment as Chancellor and the invasion of Poland. It was five years between the opening of the first concentration camps and the mass interment of Jews, and another three years before they opened the gas chambers in Auschitz. If anything, 2025 has shown that this administration is moving faster than the Nazis, and the midterms will probably be our last chance to purge these people (including the Democrats who refuse to fight them) from our government before they kill what’s left of our democracy.
If the Democrats refuse to fight, then the midterms don’t mean shit. We also can’t ignore previous administrations that built the camps and deported in record numbers. The us has always been a democracy for the capitalists only. It’s a white supremacist settler colony, and we can’t scapegoat Trump just because he is like the living avatar of us cultural ideals in the worst way. Even if Democrats somehow have all three branches in '28 and somehow unfuck the supreme court, we cannot consider reform as an end in itself. They are still capitalists who will concede very little, if anything, to the people.
There’s a reckoning coming for Democrats as well. Their poll number are still rock bottom in their own base. Primaries are coming for Torres and Jefferies, and it’s basically assumed Schumer won’t have a Minority (or, dare to dream, Majority) position in the next Congress. Despite the entire Democratic establishment lining up against him, Mamdani won. I think, with a little luck, Democratic Socialism will be the norm by '28 (though they’ll probably call it, “Getting back to our New Deal roots,” or some shit).
Democratic Socialism will not be the norm because the Democratic party will not allow that to happen. What about recent party history gives you hope that this could occur? I find this hope to be naive.
Polling shows capitalism is on a downswing while socialism is on an upswing, especially within the Democratic party. Socialism is losing its status as a boogeyman. Beyond that, Mamdani’s Democratic Socialist platform is broadly popular across the country, and even as voters are voting heavily against Republicans in special elections, the democrats are still at historically low favorability levels.
Again, when I say Democratic Socialism will be the norm, I’m not saying that the majority of Democrats will identify as Democratic Socialists. I’m saying thst the majority of Democrats will adopt the policies of the Democratic Socialists or be primaried by candidates that do (and, again, they’ll probably frame it in the context of the New Deal rather than socialism). But the NYC mayoral election has made it clear that the corporate Democrats can no longer control the narrative, and I think it’s just the beginning.
Those polls select from us adults who are registered democrats. What makes you think the party elites give a shit what they think? I know it’s not past precedent. Democrats typically use polling to justify not changing things. The way they fought Mamdani clearly demonstrates this. One anomalous Mamdani cannot reasonably justify hope in electoral reform. Capital will do all it can to extinguish Socialism as it always does. This system was made by and for capitalists and cannot be used as the sole means of establishing a socialist system.
What makes you think the party elites give a shit what they think?
As I said, I think they’ll be out on their ass. Schumer will not get another term in leadership. Jefferies might, since he kept the House together on shutdowns, but his polling is still underwater and his days are numbered. The rank and file will go where the wind blows. We’ve already seen this when normie-centrists started dumping AIPAC money because of their base. I’m sure leadership will fight it until they’re ousted, and donor class will pivot to Republicans, but the average Dem politician would rather adopt a Democratic Socialist platform than lose their seat.
One anomalous Mamdani cannot reasonably justify hope in electoral reform.
Platner is also polling ahead or Mills despite the whole, “having a Nazi tattoo,” thing. Kat Abughazaleh is in a dead heat with Biss despite Biss having the establishment backing. Richie Torres is getting a DSA primary challenge after he had to drop his bid for governor against Hochul, and Hochul herself had to pivot to supporting Mamdani (she saw how the wind was blowing). There’s also Donavan McKinney primarying Shri Thanedar in Michigan, but I’m not following that one closely enough to say much about it. The point is, it’s not just Mamdani, there are several strong DSA or DSA-aligned challengers that are doing well.
Capital will do all it can to extinguish Socialism as it always does. This system was made by and for capitalists and cannot be used as the sole means of establishing a socialist system.
OK, well, the entire philosophy of Democratic Socialism is blending public ownership with heavily regulated private businesses using the current system of democratic institutions. If you think that Democratic Socialism is impossible, fair enough, you’re entitled your opinion and I’m not really interested in debating political theory. But even if you’re right, and Democratic Socialism will be a failure, I don’t think that means that the Democrats won’t adopt it.
I hate that our greatest hope is that the guy is 80 and has shit health.
Clearly the people aren’t going to actually do anything besides disapproving looks and politely asking him to stop ignoring the law and constitution.
Trump is a symptom of the broader problem. His death isn’t the solution, even if it’s justice.
Vance could be worse. So not like trump dying off will fix it all
The cult might fracture a bit though which is something we could hope for.
Which would just get us back to Reagan republicans or tea party republicans? Both just as horrid only better at PR
If all the lamenters in the US joined forces they’d have more people than J6 did. We can do it. We just need the will.
Not right now, if we were to look at the US in it’s current state today they are far from being worse or near close to nazi germany, but if things continue following their course maybe they get fascist italy status
edit: sorry asians and middle-easterners, my americas-centered brain had forgotten about you.
Half of my family is from a country where US imperial troops are responsible for the deaths of over a million people, destroying one of the oldest centers of knowledge and education, and taking a country previously known for training first-class doctors and sending them around the world to train to a place where people are struggling to survive with a literacy crisis. We already think they’re as bad. If you don’t think they are close to Nazi Germany you sound like white supremacist who doesn’t view people outside US/EU as humans.
the us murdered far more people than nazi germany. instead of shoving people into death camps they carpet bombed civilian populations or sent their troops. it’s not mainly domestic terrorism but terrorism against koreans, cambodians, vietnamese, iraqis, afghanis, palestinians by proxy and many many more.
To be fair, the US had been doing it for a lot longer than Nazi Germany.
I don’t know whether that’s a point in its favor.
Not to mention interventions they started back in the middle of the XIX century in central america, that were driven by the manifest destiny ideas. So this is nothing new and that has been happening for more than 100 years.
Hitler invaded Poland to plunder the country to stave off another impending economic collapse of Germany, thanks to his runaway excessive government spending. In that sense, he was distracting the Germans from being revealed on how bad of an administrator he was. Trump invaded Venezuela and wants to annex Greenland to distract people from the fact that he is a pedophile. And that’s a helluva weirder reason to go to war for distraction…
Don’t overthink it, US economy isn’t that great either.
Yeah pretty sure they dgaf about the files. And everyone knows what’s inbthem already.
Economists said that Kamala was a better choice but people thought otherwise.
Less obviously stupid, but she had a low bar to clear in Trump.
The economy built just to wage war needed a war, that’s the reasoning you’re going with for why Hitler was expansionary???
Trump doesn’t care if people think he’s a pedophile he just wants power and people giving him attention. Or just to have a landmark for himself, see putting name on anything.
Most people don’t realise Nazi Germany was on a brink of another economic collapse before Poland was invaded.
But economics was not why they started wars it was just to grow and expand. The nazis only used we’ll improve the economy to gain power and build a war machine.
Which is also why it was a shit economy not because of the government spending
The Nazis remilitarized which spurred short term economic growth, which was then used to pay for the extremely generous social welfare benefits to the Germans, who were appreciative of this because they were deeply traumatised by hyperinflation of the Great Depression. But this excessive government spending is turning the German wallets inside out; and the plunder of conquered nations gave Nazi Germany some needed cash injection to keep their economy going. If you don’t believe me, look up Hjalmar Schacht, Hitler’s economic minister, who warned the fuhrer that the state’s finances were nearly out in the late 1930s. Schacht’s savvy financial acumen had kept the Nazi German economy running longer than it should have been. He was dubbed the “dark wizard of finance”, partly because his confiscation of Jewish assets, before the war, yielded the Nazis much needed finances.
Benefits to the citizens isn’t the issue is was them funneling it entirely to the war machine effort, like how they turned funds for cars for the people into tank and military vehicles instead of the actual cars.
It was always an economy built on playing cards but not because of spending to people but only investing in the military.
