I trust a Chinese tank driver more not to drive me over than an ICE agent.
Historically speaking, a safe bet
Eye witness account plus video
Pretty famously, he climbed directly up on the tank and chewed out the driver, then got back down and continued to block the tank. Others in the crowd pulled him away back down the street. The tank didn’t try to run him over, he was never reported captured, and as far as we’re aware he’s alive to this day.
Imagine an American climbing onto the hood of an ICE van or stubbornly maneuvering in front of a vehicle.
I’m old enough to remember the footage being on live and the hope that this action brought to the world.
Sadly a few weeks later tanks rolled over everything on Tianmen Square flattening bikes and human bodies alike.
ICE is shit and everybody involved needs to rot in jail but so far they have not flattened anything with a tank. Given the chance they no doubt will murder people at the scale it happened on Tianmen Square.
Comparing wannabe mass murderers (ICE) to accomplished mass murderers (CCP) doesn’t really help painting the wannabes as bad as they are.
Theres no images of human bodies crushed by tanks in tiananmen square. Theres some who were shot on their bikes, in the surrounding streets, probably by police.
After the local troops refused to murder civilians they brought in different troops that were perfectly ok with a little mass murder.
The fact that I trust a Chinese tank driver “more”, doesn’t mean I trust a Chinese tank driver.
It would have been better formed if I said “I distrust a Chinese tank driver less than an ICE agent-”
No, the premise is stupid. Like sticking your left hand in a jar of deadly scorpion s and your right hand in a jar of deadly centipede and stating you like the stinging in your left hand better.
I’m old enough to remember the footage being on live and the hope that this action brought to the world.
Sadly a few weeks later tanks rolled over everything on Tianmen Square flattening bikes and human bodies alike.
ICE is shit and everybody involved needs to rot in jail but so far they have not flattened anything with a tank. Given the chance they no doubt will murder people at the scale it happened on Tianmen Square.
Comparing wannabe mass murderers (ICE) to accomplished mass murderers (CCP) doesn’t really help painting the wannabes as bad as they are.
But you know what? I’m just going to join the majority of people that have already set this tankie instance on block. so you and your tankie friends, most of whom are some quarter-assed LLM bot anyway, can knock yourselves out in your little tankie echo chamber. Cheers
What are you on about, there have been many instances where ICE drove over people. They have shot people.
There hasn’t been a Tiananman square like massacre, but the Chinese were military forced to to slaughter countrymen or be shot themselves. They made the wrong choice, killing civilians. ICE is people willingly joining to do unlawful things to innocent civilians, SS style. Murder, concentration camps, torture, starvation, etc.
The one is someone with a gun to their head, making the wrong choice. The other is making the wrong choice to willingly be the fucking gun.
This is the most pretentious, my-shit-doesn’t-stink reply I’ve seen outside of an .ml instance lol
Touch grass.
No. The Tianmen Square video is of tank man who made a tank stop instead of running him over. The protests were over a previous (1-3 nights before) protest or, according to Chinese Government, riot where protesters were killed. Deaths did not happen after tankman.
I wouldn’t trust a single ICE or DHS agent to do the right thing in this situation. We have proof of at least one Chinese tank crew doing so.
How do you define “better”?
Is your context window 1 token?
I don’t care at all of this is im14andthisisdeep. I love it
im21andthisissoooooodeep
im40andthishascomplexlayersyouwouldntgetmaaaaan
I like that the AI gave the soccer Mom both a soccer ball as well as a soccer purse. Bravo.
I assumed it was a second bag.
I miss the days of a skillful photo edit
It used to take effort to make shitposts
I’d even take crappy photo edits over this.
I think it was 🤏 this close to making the (extremely decorative and numerous) street lights into soccer balls.
AI generated slop, ICE would not have stopped, ICE would have ran her over and told you to ignore your lying eyes. Though it certainly puts tank man in perspective, it wasn’t just tank man, it was those driving and commanding that tank who still had enough shame to stop and not trample them.
Do you actually know what happened at Tiananmen Square?
Tank man was the day after. The night before, they turned a massive student protest into a slurry that they pushed into the sewers. There was no shame.
You seem to think I’m trying to justify the Tiananmen Square when I’m just putting one particular incident in perspective to how ICE usually acts. Your gross oversimplifcations seem to want to act like whataboutism to how much worse the Tiananmen Square by portraying it into a caricature of “a massive student protest into a slurry that they pushed into the sewers”.
It got pretty bad, a lot worse than any particular ICE incident up to date, but in a lot of ways it was served to the people just like ICE is being served up. People in the US should really inform themselves better with nuance, because the nuance is that it’s far closer to how ICE is acting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre#Military_action
This is only a year into Trump’s second term and it’s already this bad. Just look at how long it took Hitler. I’m one of the people that follow several China youtubers, who supports how they can be an outlet for criticism that could not be made any other way in China, but I’ve gotta say, it has been revealing how much they are willing to ignore what is happening in the US and how illegal the operation against Venezuela was to the point that I now ask how much their bias is influencing them taking about outliers as if they were representative of the whole. The standard you compare against matters.
There were tanks that mowed down people in Tiananmen Square Massacre, but in the infamous particular photo that made Tank Man famous, it really does characterize the restraint of that particular commander and/or driver from their shame, specially because others in the same massacre didn’t. It’s used to illustrate what difference one instance of opposition can make, but it’s also inherently only possible because that tank chose not to make that guy an statistic. The thing is, you are much more likely to get someone in the military to doubt themselves when facing its from an army that made up of the general geographic group of your peers than you are from one specially made to include the most racist, narcissistic, and power-tripping members of it. That’s why soldiers get a lot of the post traumatic stress disorder than some of these assholes never will (and neither do I think Jonathan Ross was suffering from it).
You seem to think I’m trying to justify the Tiananmen Square
I did no such thing. I was just pointing out that the “restraint” by the tank drivers the following day is not at all representative of the actual massacre
Do you actually know what happened at Tiananmen Square?
Ok, so understanding events = justification of those events now?
How does this even get upvoted, are people even reading this shit?
Your gaslighting is bad and you should feel bad.
The fuck are you even talking about. Please, explain how I’m gaslighting.
Have you seen the full video? Tank man climbs on top of the tank to yell at the commander
In b4 Tallahassee Square
So according to the tankie narrative, what this woman is really doing is telling them to go back and do their jobs
Anything’s possible when you make shit up
Fuck yes you guys are good
It is photoshopped. US americans don’t have guts to directly confront their government.
The flaw in your logic is ICE doesn’t have the guts to identify themselves or their vehicles.
Both. Both? Both.
That’s such an easy thing to say from the anonymity of the internet.
Tankie?
The difference being that in the original the protester was safe after the fact:
Fun Fact: You can totally Google the Not Safe For Life images of the Tiananmen Square massacre. Tank Man wasn’t ran over, but many other students were.
Bullshit.
If he was alive and well he would have been trotted out to the public as propaganda by the CCP that they weren’t cruel. Look, see?! He’s alive! There was no massacre! While he regurgitates some safe speech that toed the Party line.
If he’s lucky he disappeared and kept his mouth shut to survive in silence.
Sources conflict as to his identity, and whether or not he was executed, imprisoned , or lived free.
Not that I expect tankies to think anything other than pro-CCP thought.
Literally just watch the video
A) The image isn’t even an actual event. The person doesn’t exist. Therefore they are neither safe nor unsafe.
B) Sparing the life of one citizen after murdering hundreds is not the flex you think it is
It’s not just an image, it’s a video depicting a column of tanks leaving a Tiananmen square suspiciously empty of squished bodies. Tanks that, after having supposedly finished squishing hundreds of protestors that aren’t seen, just stop for one single guy who stops them and and even talks to the guys inside the first tank.
You should at least learn to comprehend English before spouting bullshit. The OP is an image which actually doesn’t feature any tanks at all! Always these mother fuckers dropping in with copy and paste internet warrior bullshit without even understanding context. This shit has to come from A) low-grade troll farms, B) Terrible LLMs or C) people with inconceivably bad grasp of the English language.
The post I replied to was attempting to compare an actual, factual scenario against an imaginary scenario that never took place where anyway is anything and whisful thinking overrides reality. “Making shit up” to push political agendas is vile and disgusting and is called propaganda.
Governmentz murdering innocent people is bad. Full stop. This isn’t West vs East tribal war bullshit. It’s a damn universal concept. Just swallow that tyrannical governments are bad. It doesn’t matter their location, or politics or ethnicity of the perpetrators. It’s still wrong and will always be wrong.
I hope anybody who disagrees gets everythings they’ve ever dreamed of.
What? Are you talking about the literal op image itself and not what it’s referencing?
And again, I’m highlighting the absurdity the a bunch of tanks that had supposedly just got finished squishing hundreds of protesters and were then leaving the square (that suspiciously doesn’t have hundreds of squished bodies in it) then decide to stop for one dude. How does that make any sense?
I’m highlighting the absurdity the a bunch of tanks that had supposedly just got finished squishing hundreds of protesters and were then leaving the square
Nobody said that? The tank man incident occurred the following day and is a sign of rebellion against a tyrannical government. Nobody except the uneducated or people intentionally obscuring the facts believes both events took place on the same day. Tank man is so powerful because he did it despite the government slaughtering people the day previously. Standing in front of the tank was extremely brave and probably even a little stupid but powerful nonetheless.
This is pretty basic history here. You really think the whole world would make a big hubbub over some rando standing in a street without any further context? People stand in streets everyday and aren’t newsworthy.
Attempting to negate the sacrifice of those killed and belittle them is disgusting and wrong.
The Chinese government, like ALL governments, did a bad thing and the only way we grow as people is to admit this shit happens and learn from it, otherwise we’re repeating the same cycle forever.
Cope
Dope
Slope
Soap
Rope
Hope
deleted by creator
Liberals don’t want truth or justice, they want a self serving narrative that disguises their contempt for people they feel are beneath them.
Sorry your feelings got hurt.
I made this same comparison a few days ago and got down voted to hell for it. Glad I’m not the only one that sees it
Unrealistic. If someone stood in front of an ICE car like this they would immediately get shot.
She was weaponizing her body!
Just wait until you hear what happened to the guy standing in front of the tank in the original photo.
Two agents in civilian clothes took him off the street. No further info is available.
All of the ICE vehicles I’ve seen are unmarked, with non-uniformed masked men jumping out of them and attacking people or their vehicles. Maybe 10 years ago, a Florida Man shot a black kid for wearing a hoodie, and got off on “stand your ground laws”. Apparentlly, MAGA thinks “if they could be ICE, give them all your money and vehicles” or you, as domestic terrorist scum, deserve to get killed.
No no. As a tankie - I support you. Fuck ice. Tankies are internationaliststs, not one country above all ists.
This dude thinks Ukraine “was asking for it”
EDIT: The difference between Reddit and Lemmy is that here I can still see the downvotes as opposed to enjoying the obliviousness of a positive score. Here I know there are 7 pro-Russia degenerates who saw this comment. I’d rather know.
Yes they 100 percent deserve what is happening.
Whatever your beliefs are, we should all agree that nobody deserves to suffer. Even people who have done terrible things, I wish for them to be swiftly and mercifully removed from power or brought to justice with minimal suffering.
Most people in Ukraine are just powerless nobodies going about their lives. They don’t deserve to be subjected to a war. They have no real choice in how that war is waged, or if it is at all.
If anyone deserves comeuppance, it’s the ruling class who actually choose to let these events play out.
Who? This isn’t happening to the fascists in control of Ukraine, most of the randos who got conscripted by force and are now getting got by drones and missiles while trying to hide in a swamp are just normal ass people who didn’t ask for this.
Suggesting Ukraine deserves what’s happening? You’re disgraceful.
He should have kept Ukraine neutral and took a deal. But nooo, had to fucking be a Napoleon - moron wasted so many Ukrainian lives
My god, what happened to the inside of your head?
Those in control of the USA are internationalists, too.
They don’t care who “wins”, they profit off of the war itself (and the rebuild for that matter).
They love tankies
They don’t care who “wins”, they profit off of the war itself (and the rebuild for that matter).
Then why would they love tankies, some of the only people who consistently oppose them building and using tanks?
Tankies are “authoritarian communists”, they are not pro peace in any way, they love tanks.
(standard definition, not familiar with the tankies that you describe)
Bedtimes are authoritarian, your parents are dictators
My parents are dead! (runs out of room crying, slams door)
did they head out on a guilt trip and never come back
One day you’ll be an adult and you can set your own bedtime. Now who wants to go out for Ice Cream 🍨?
Really? Because I’m always calling for staying out of conflicts and dramatically reducing the military budget and people are constantly calling me a tankie because of those stances.
See, if you don’t want war, it means you support the other side, and however bad “our” side is, the other side is always worse and more aggressive (the media says so, after all) and that means that anyone who’s pro-peace is actually pro-war, freedom is slavery, etc.
So it was when I said we shouldn’t invade Iraq and Afghanistan, it meant that I was “a terrorist sympathizer” and “pro-Al Qaida,” and when I say we should stay out of Palestine, people say I’m “pro-Hamas” and when I say we should stay out of Ukraine people say I’m “pro-Russia” and a “tankie,” and if I don’t think the US has the right to kidnap heads of state I’m “supporting dictators.” Consistently advocating against the use of tanks is essentially the defining characteristic of a “tankie.”
You sound much more of an isolationist than a tankie. Lol.
The word “isolationist” doesn’t exist in the vocabularies of most people around here. It doesn’t really matter why I disagree with US military interventions, the fact that I do means that I will inevitably be labelled tankie or a Russian bot. So you might as well ignore it, or love the word instead, cause you ain’t done nothing if you ain’t been called a Red.
Besides, I’m not wholly an isolationist. I have no problem with trade or foreign aid, so long as it isn’t military aid. More accurately, I’m a dove. But “dove” doesn’t exactly work as an insult. Some liberals even like to imagine that they’re doves, unbelievably.
But again, liberals don’t recognize that perspectives like “doves” or “isolationists” exist. You either follow the narrative of the media and politicians, or you get thrown into this big lump of Bad People™ with zero distinctions regarding why you disagree with them.
Isolationists would want to stay out of Ukraine to mind our own business, this guy wants to stay out of Ukraine because .ml is notorious for giving modern day Russia a free pass with their Imperial nonsense.
Case in point: Anyone who wants to stay out of conflicts automatically supports Russia. My actual reasons and motivations are totally irrelevant. Thank you for proving my point.
Yes, really! I’ve been called a tankie and a Nazi and worse. Don’t judge what a tankie or Nazi is by insults on the internet, hyperbole and bullshit rule.
Again, your definition is not the standard definition. Tankies love tanks. And Communism. And Stalin. Which is funny, because Stalin wasn’t much of a communist.
I use the standard definition, that’s it. I am not familiar with the tankies you describe, I haven’t met them… Tankies hating tanks seems wrong to me. Back in the day when word originated they loved the T-34 tank and Russia in WW2 and so on.
Where can I find YOUR definition of “tankie”, the peace loving gentle communist who hates tanks? Seriously? And what do you think the “tank” in “tankie” comes from?
Don’t judge what a tankie or Nazi is by insults on the internet, hyperbole and bullshit rule.
Words are defined by common use. If the common use of the word “tankie” is to throw it at people who oppose war, then that’s what it means now. You can say it’s defined as being pro- war, but I’ve never seen it used that way.
Back in the day when word originated they loved the T-34 tank and Russia in WW2 and so on.
Well sure, WWII is basically the go-to example of a necessary and justified war. There was a time in my life when I labelled myself as a pacifist and the counter-example that everyone always brought up was WWII.
At that time, my position was that that was one exception from like 70 years ago and we shouldn’t make a rule from the exception considering how many unjustified wars have been fought since then. Now, my position is a little bit more flexible and moderate to account for that and a handful of other cases: now I say, “no war but class war,” and WWII was a class war.
However, my position hasn’t actually changed much in practice since those days. The vast majority of wars and violence are systemic and fought for bourgeois interests, so I still oppose them. Only very rarely does violence happen in the opposite direction, for example if we compare the death tolls of Luigi Mangione to Brian Thompson.
And what do you think the “tank” in “tankie” comes from?
It comes from accusing people who oppose war of supporting the other side’s tanks, as I just explained to you in my previous comment.
Words are defined by common use. If the common use of the word “tankie” is to throw it at people who oppose war, then that’s what it means now. You can say it’s defined as being pro- war, but I’ve never seen it used that way.
Indeed. And the common use of the word tankie is “authoritarian communist”
Why are you using an uncommon definition?
Why would you call someone who opposes tanks a “tankie”? Kinda silly.
That’s like calling you a “warmongie”.
War makes money
But tankies oppose nearly all wars.
Tankies seek to use state violence to coerce and terrorize the working class into unquestioning obedience to the state. Sometimes that violence is directed at the working class in other states so it’s hard to argue they oppose war.
You’re thinking of liberals.
Ok, fine, Tankies are a variant (ostensibly) of communists that seek to use state violence to coerce and terrorize the working class into unquestioning obedience to the state.
And as usual, you’re not thinking at all
Do you know what tanks are for?
Yes, that’s why “tankies” are generally opposed to building and deploying tanks, moreso than just about any ideology short of pacifism. Certainly moreso than liberals are.
You don’t even know the origin of the word “tankie”.
can’t have war if everyone surrenders too soon.
Exactly.
There’s only one war worth fighting and that’s the class war. Everything else is just throwing lives away for nothing.
They don’t care who “wins”, they profit off of the war itself
People kept telling me that the Taliban won the war in Afghanistan but I kept telling them the US Military Industrial complex won.
I agree with you! And as we speak, they are selling weapons to the Taliban, and selling weapons to whoever is fighting Taliban at the moment.
After there’s nothing left but smoking rubble, the IMF (controlled by the same concerns) will give the winner a “loan.” The winner won’t be able to pay off those loans, so what will they do? Provide them with more loans to cover those loans. The interest is all profit, and the “loan” is never actual printed money in circulation and is “virtual money”, so it costs them nothing. They collect all of that interest with no cost to themselves.
I’m simplifying, it’s actually much worse than I describe. The more you investigate it, the worse it gets…
Right or left, all are getting screwed , “The Bank” doesn’t care about politics.
If you’re ever bored, check out JP Morgan, the man and the bank… just one cog in the machine.
not one country above all ists.
except China*
anti-whataboutism
Tankies traditionally supported the USSR above all other Warsaw pact countries.
It’s refreshing seeing less complaints about AI. Soccer Mums attire is on point.
Fuck ICE and fuck AI
And yet you upvoted the meme?
Yup. Can’t win ‘em all.
How can you tell it’s AI? Maybe it’s just photo editing? Who can say
Because AI does nonsensical things that would require extra effort for a human to do, in this case the lady has a soccer purse and a soccer ball
/me zooms in
Oh, yeah. I guess the prompt was soccer mom.
deleted by creator
Good to see a healthy attitude to it developing.
Still way too many zealots screeching. But it’s getting there.
Why not just use it and work with it
Why not just burn down a forest for a bit of a giggle?
You’re on a computer. You probably game too. You’re burning resources where ever you go. We need tools to fight fascists. I say use the tools we have. Without it, they have an advantage being able to create content and analysis. Also forests are fine. Don’t be dramatic. I’m not convinced that bots didn’t drive a lot of AI hate so that the left would hobble itself
Ai uses more resources than that and the tech bros are very responsible for the current fascism and I’m not going to use ai slop tools that are quickly using up the rest of our drinking water.
The Forrest’s are not fine. They burn down every fucking year.
It throttles my gpu less than playing a game does. ‘Spose we should ban gaming too?
Ai uses large servers and data farms. It doesn’t have to throttle your machine because it isn’t using your machine.
You agree with me 99% of the time and not 100% of the time?! DIE!!!
More like, “it’s obviously good sometimes”.
The extremist hardline stance will continue to soften over time to the point people will stop caring at all about it.
Upvote the idea, not the art
Art is the idea, you mean the medium.
I mean… I think it’s worrying that the norm is “who cares if it’s AI? It’ll fool plenty of people, spread it!” If that’s what you mean.
Social media is going to kill us all well before AI does.
Do you really think the intent of ops image is to “fool” people and not to be a parody political commentary?
deleted by creator
