Fork time? Maybe all the anti-systemd zealots were right all along…
Edit: To address whether it is likely that this change will affect users: Gnome is planning a stronger dependence on userdb, the part of systemd where this change is being implemented. https://blogs.gnome.org/adrianvovk/2025/06/10/gnome-systemd-dependencies/
Final Edit: The PR has been merged into main.
Give them an inch, and they will take a mile. Fuck this PR.
I’ll start off my comment with something everyone can agree on: the age verification laws absolutely sucks. It’s a surveillance law masquerading as a means of “protecting” children. It also completely undermines free and open source projects, and therefore, protected speech. The fact systemd had to add a
BirthDatefield is unfortunate, however, I would blame the lawmakers for creating the law that the developers of systemd now have to comply with.I’m okay with the implementation. It is an optional (meaning you have to add it yourself) field which only specifies the date of birth. It doesn’t seem to be at all invasive, nor does it attempt to “verify” it at the moment. Granted, anything is possible, but I don’t think there’s a good enough reason why systemd would EVER feel the need to add age verification. Before you say anything regarding corporations, please answer this: why would a corporation add age verification to a system manager their servers depend on? How will that profit them?
I get why people are angry, but I think this anger should be funneled towards the lawmakers pulling off nonsense like this. Fight those who are actively trying to take your rights away. Bullying software developers for complying to international laws will lead to nothing but hate.
Nah this is more systemd bloat and certainly invites criticism. Other inits aren’t even commenting, let alone complying.
Other inits are not relevant, because of their own choice to not do the job correctly last time they had a chance to
I believe those other init systems we’re in the right to, but that’s only because they are JUST init systems. systemd can because it doesn’t just provide an init system, it provide a suite of tools for Linux system management. Something like userdb would have to be implemented by another tool, where they could actually implement
BirthDateif they so choose to (and probably should for it’s continued existence).Yes, I agree. The problem is such things never appeared, so alternatives to systemd never became relevant.
Other inits aren’t even commenting, let alone complying.
This would be a fair point, if systemd wasn’t more than an init system. While a service manager (init system) is included, systemd is a system manager. OpenRC, runit, and other init systems do not need to comment because their only task is to mount the necessary file systems, setup the device manager, and start daemons1. systemd as a system manager not only needs to manage services, but it also needs to manage devices, logs, the hostname, etc.
Does this mean systemd is not bloat? Not at all, but it is not as fat as you think it is. Your system could honestly be fatter without systemd if you try to replicate everything it does with external applications. Does this mean systemd should also be justified to add an optional field for your date of birth? I guess I would say it’s weird on it’s own. However, given the context, I believe they are doing what they can.
Your system could honestly be fatter without systemd if you try to replicate everything it does with external applications.
Maybe so, but systemd’s bloated feature creep still leads to security vulnerabilities. Another systemd root access exploit was just discovered a couple of days ago.
Unfortunate. However, it seems that is snapd’s fault. Here’s the important part from the article:
Ubuntu automatically deletes old files from the /tmp directory after a certain number of days. During this cleanup, an important directory used by snap-confine may get removed.
Ubuntu configured systemd-tmpfiles to clean out /tmp after some days. That’s why the issue is only present in Ubuntu systems. Therefore, systemd was doing it’s job, and it just so happened to create the perfect conditions for a vulnerability in Ubuntu.
That is a fair point, actually. If there were a theoretical systemd-free Ubuntu it may just tell something else like tmpreaper to clean on the same schedule and create the same vulnerability.
Yea, fucking americans supposed democracy ruining the day again, thanks guys for freeing us all once fucking again
Then come the script kiddies hating on systemd for doing the actual work necessary for not getting linux banned in the “free” word and acting like this is some kind of gamestop organization action.
Looks like this is just for storing the data (birth date). Distros can use it and do age restriction or ignore it. Not a big deal imo. Its not like systemd does anything more with the date.
Ah yes, because systemd has a history of not expanding its functionality beyond reasonable scope
Yeah. I always use a fake date anyways so it’s not like it matters.
Unless you’re randomising it constantly, it still becomes part of a fingerprint for you.
The fingerprint is already pretty effective. Putting something like 01/01/1970 would add a small amount of precision, but likely not enough to make a difference.
Why do the rest of us have to have this shit added in our systems just because some Yankees (and Brazil) passed some bills? My country has already said they won’t be doing any age verification shit. I’m starting to think there’s some big conspiracy here that FOSS isn’t as independent as we believe it is.
FOSS isn’t as independent as we believe it is
Some parts are indeed sponsored by corporations, that’s not a bad thing per se because financial support is important.
Problems arise when corporations push changes solely for their own interest instead of the benefit of the community, this PR seems to be that case.
Germany has effectivly the same law, active since december 2025, and I am sure more countries will intruduce such laws soon. Linux Distributions have to be compliant with this laws, if we like it or not.
@DarkMetatron @Geki do you have inside knowledge of more countries you speak of? Stop spreading FUD and face the problem head on. You Germans have earned a reputation for intolerance of fascism and Nazi sympathizers in your own land. Get out there and protest such laws instead of musing online about the decline of freedom as if it’s a forgone conclusion. These laws are pushed by scum to chip away at freedom. They do not protect anyone.
I am not spreading fud, I only added something to a list. The fact that we have such a law is not known by many, even most germans are not aware of it, that is why I talk about it. It is only possible to Protest and fight against something if it is known, and I try to spread this knowledge. This is a way to fight against it, or at least the preparation.
I am very sorry that my posts gave the impression that I am not against such laws, because I for sure am!
And Yes, i should have said that I fear that more countries created such laws, my pessimistic world view got me when I wrote my first post.
@DarkMetatron sorry for the aggression, it’s just the relative helplessness us Americans feel in the shadow of so much stupidity and greed. It makes me jumpy when I perceive backsliding in more liberated places such as yours. I want to hold out hope the foolishness is mostly contained here in my nation.
Germany has effectivly the same law
I haven’t heard anything about that and a search doesn’t turn anything up either. Can you give any details on what you mean specifically?
§12 Jugendmedienschutzstaatsvertrag: https://www.landesrecht-bw.de/bsbw/document/jlr-JMedienSchStVtrGBWV10StVtr-P12
(1) Anbieter von Betriebssystemen, die von Kindern und Jugendlichen üblicherweise genutzt werden im Sinne des § 16 Abs. 1 Satz 3 Nr. 6, stellen sicher, dass ihre Betriebssysteme über eine den nachfolgenden Absätzen entsprechende Jugendschutzvorrichtung verfügen. Passt ein Dritter die vom Anbieter des Betriebssystems bereitgestellte Jugendschutzvorrichtung an, besteht die Pflicht aus Satz 1 insoweit bei diesem Dritten.
(3) In der Jugendschutzvorrichtung muss eine Altersangabe eingestellt werden können.
Wow that’s an insane level of bootlicking, it was completely free for them to do absolutely nothing about this nonsense law and give the middle finger if asked by the US
I didn’t care before but it turns out the systemd haters were on to something for a long time, fuck these owners for even considering this and even locking the PR to avoid valid criticism, I hope all the contributors create a fork, jump ship and never let the previous owners commit a single line of code to it
It adds an optional birthdate field to userdb. The desktop does not have to populate it. I’m honestly surprised this wasn’t already a field in UserDB
Final Edit: The PR has been merged into main.
Fucking hell. All he had to do was fucking nothing, the bastard.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/revoluciana-facing-fascism-sabotage
Sabotage sounds spicy. It sounds dangerous.
And yet, the underlying concept is simply this: inefficiency.
I told you last time, make every inch have its cost.
Resistance does not have to be violent, and that’s not something I’m advocating here. Resistance is the word no. Resistance is standing in place. Resistance is pushing.
Resistance is the albatross around the neck of your opposition. Resistance is the anchor that drags along the sea floor.
Here are some incredibly mundane but effective examples from the manual:
Make mistakes with purchasing travel tickets
Make engineering mistakes
Make long speeches and waste time
Act ignorant, or ask a lot of questions: if you’re not familiar with the concept of sea-lioning, you should really learn it
Take longer to do your work
Even if you’re terrified of doing more, this is simply a place to start.
You are someone and you have a responsibility to do something.
You cannot make it easier for the fascists to achieve their goals. You can’t do it today, and you can’t do it later if they claim authority. You must stand in the way of oppression.
This is fucking horseshit. I’m turning against fucking systemd , and I had no fucking opinion before, now it’s completely clear they’re a bunch of 1940s IBM wannabees.
EDIT : What a surprise, the fucker that wrote the PR works for IBM and “A Medical Malpractice company” and the one that merged it works for Microsoft.
The origin of inefficiency as resistance comes from people in concentration camps deliberately doing poor jobs at forced labour as a form of resistance. If you’re posting on Lemmy right now you can do a lot more than inefficiency. The people who had to resort to inefficient slave labour as resistance could only dream of what you can do.
ok great. can you tie it back to the discussion please?
Conversations move through different topics.
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.
We graybeards tried to warn you about systemd but you acted as fools.
It does not help that non insignificant amounts of systemd criticism comes from Lunduke and gang, often ignoring the actual technical problems with systemd and turning into culture war.
I don’t mean you, just my thoughts.
Guilty as charged xD
I know the debate around systemd is going on for quite some time, I understood the basic reasoning behind it but I don’t have the technical knowledge required to truly decide for myself, so I just didn’t pay too much attention to it and followed what my distro of choice does.
The good thing about this “new development” is that it’s not just a tech debate anymore, it has such wider implications that it’ll be much easier for people to decide where to be.
A large part of the disagreement was never a tech debate. Systemd on a purely technical level had advantages, but the arguments were always about a concentration of functionality into a single critical program. Great while things are going well. Hell when it falls apart. That fear wasn’t totally based in technical reasoning.
There is indeed a philosophical part to it around the “do one thing and do it well”, but what you call “fear” is not an totally unfounded concern, in that it’s true that the more complex a piece of software is, the more complex maintenance also is.
But you need serious technical knowledge to fully understand everything that systemd does compared to sysvinit, what are the advantages of this new system and how much its complexity can actually affect maintenance (or not).
I don’t have that kind of knowledge, you could explain to me all the technical advantages systemd has but I wouldn’t be able to understand them, so I just trust distro maintainers in doing what they believe it’s best for their distro and I never considered the init system as a parameter to choose what distro I want to use, I just use what’s in the distro.
Now it’s different, because adding a field to comply with a moronic law pushed by Meta to avoid fines has truly nothing to do with technical reasoning, you don’t need any tech knowledge to understand that, anyone can.
i’m going to start dyeing mine so that people won’t just keep ignoring me like some old man yelling at the neighborhood kids to get off his lawn. lol
i think it’s really wholesome that a lot of 126 year old people use linux
While I think it’s amazing that not only are 95% of Linux users 56 years of age, but they even share the same birth date!
Yes, the Unix epoch is the obvious choice of birth date here
We should all agree on a common birthday, until operating systems enforce ID upload
you missed the joke I think: Thu Jan 01 1970 00:00:01 GMT+0000,
UNIX timestamp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time
All those leap seconds…
Rick Astley’s birthday is 6th Feb 1966, just saying
76 years old from day law is passed to honor System76 for having some nuts and being proactive.
Something feels fishy… The user who made this pull request has more than doubled his contributions to various repositories since January (from 20–400 to more than 1100), and this is his first pull request in the systemd repo.
They bought a second computer so they can ask Claude for twice as much code.
Very fishy…
That guy is either a massive bootlicker or a fucking plant. Who goes around vulentarily adding birth date fields to EVERY project they can contribute to?
Fishy how? As in a state-level backdooring like was the case with XZ and Jia Tan or are you weary of something else?
That memory surely also prompted this feeling. It’s just that Meta seems to be putting a lot of effort everywhere to push for this. Not so difficult to put, or corrupt, or push, people in dev communities and repos.
This is a big weakness in FOSS communities, hell, in capitalist existence. People with resources can afford to spend their own time or hire someone else to focus on their contributions like a full time job while most honest contributers will be doing it during their free time because they need to pay bills and such.
how do you think this can be most effectively fought?
🤷
In a few years, we may be smuggling in contraband Chinese RISC-V computers.
Huh, we really do live in a cyberpunk novel…
The fact that this shit sound like a dystopian future trope…
Only to be backdoored by the Red instead of the Orange.
Someone call Dr. Strange, he fucked up this timeline real bad.
Email your legislators telling them that parents already have access to network block tools, these laws won’t stop the problem anyway (run through a vpn), they’re a free speech nightmare, they’re collecting more data on American citizens when America has data breaches losing data every few days, and Congress literally studied this twenty years ago and decided it wasn’t a good idea then, what makes it a good idea now?
uh…$? same reason the majority of US politicians vote anyway on anything put in front of them.
the only thing sacred in the USA is $
Largely true, though I think $ is a secondary consideration to some of the genocidal eugenicists, fundamentalists, supremacists, jingoist hegemons, etc.
The least effective way is whining on a Lemmy community about open source projects.
Go talk to your lawmakers, not the people complying with the law.What if users are redefined as context? Now the is does not have users anymore. That’s not a ‘root’ user, it’s a ‘root’ context. And that’s non root context with supercontext privileges
By implementing it all in the most brain dead, user space writable fashion
DRM writers love this too.
I was ambivalent about systemd up until now. If this gets merged I’m moving to a non-systemd distro. I do not live in California or even the USA. I do not want age verification garbage in my OS.
Iv not given a shit one way or another as well. But as a Californian I refuse to have this shit on my PC damn be what the law says.
Good news: this is not age verification. This is an optional DoB field on a user profile.
It’s being added as a response to the age verification laws with the intended purpose to provide the age signal.
It’s age verification/attestation.
No. It’s a date of birth. You’re right that age verification comes next, but this is not it. Had this field been present before, none of this would matter.
Contact your representative, not your local FOSS maintainer.
Contact your representative, not your local FOSS maintainer.
They’re not a US citizen.
They also didn’t say they would contact the maintainers. They said they’d just change distro to a non-systemd one.
And you’re nothing but silly trying to act like this isn’t about age “verification”. We know it is, because it comes in response to the new california law
If you’re not a US citizen (or Brazilian) why would you care if they comply with local laws?
They stated that reason very clearly in their original comment. I suggest you read it if you want to know why.
Yes I can read.
Contact your representative
Right, so that they can ask if I’m stoned or stupid for asking them to affect laws in another country?
Then this doesn’t impact you in any form. (Especially since it’s just a DoB).
You can continue to whine but frankly I don’t see the point then.Of course it does. This particular change may seem innocuous in itself, but the idea of compliance with ridiculous laws like this one, in one jurisdiction, being implemented in a project used globally will result in compromising everyone’s privacy/security, regardless of whether they are even subject to that law or not.
If anything, it’s more troubling for those outside the relevant jurisdiction, since we get 0 say on the laws, and have no actual reason to comply.
In my opinion, storing a date is pretty much irrelevant unless there’s a process that validates the supplied date, otherwise every Linux user was born on 1/1/1, if not, an administrator can “fix” that
Furthermore, that
systemdthinks that it’s the place to store such information is in my opinion beyond absurd.Who appointed that project the source of age truth in the Linux ecosystem? What discussion was there, who was consulted and where was the vote?
Exactly. This is a massive overreach, and it is crazy that Poettering is even considering merging this.
I would say the majority of objections to systemd pertain to perceived overreaches of the project (perceptions I generally share). So in that sense, it is kind of on brand.
He thinks that systemd is desktop linux.
You’re right that asking a user for a date is next to useless. However, that isn’t a reason to not fight this stuff. Asking the user for the date is step one to getting people accept it. After that they’ll point out that people were lying, and they’ll need our government ID to verify (and link us to activity). It’s all a step towards a surveillance network tracking every move you make on your computer.
I understand your point and agree that this is the thin end of the wedge.
What we’re doing here is discussing the phenomenon and I’m highlighting some concerns.
I believe that this is how you get a dialogue happening which will effect change, which is what we’re both advocating.
I think that age verification is about surveillance rather than protecting children and I think it should be fought at every level.
This is me contributing to that fight.
1/1/1
every linux user is jesus confirmed
Everyone knows Jesus was born one 0001-12-25
Is he dumb? It’s been almost 12 months since A. D. started. What was he waiting for
Come on, you know it’s going to be 1/1/1970 most of the time.
They haven’t fessed up yet that that’s part of their plan. I expect to hear from them after they’ve passed the first half.
Has anyone even looked at the PR? Why is there such a big stink about adding an optional birthday field to a JSON schema? It’s opt-in and can’t be validated in any way.
That’s like saying OpenSSL is the thin end of an anti-encryption wedge because they provide FIPS compliant modules. Or complaining that it puts your privacy at risk when you generate an SSH key and it asks for your address.
The problem is the laws getting passed, not with software that gives people a choice about whether to comply.
Yes, the PR specifically calls out the laws as the reason for this change. The problem is BOTH the laws getting passed, and corporate interests complying in advance.
… can’t be validated in any way.
I feel like this will be a problem for the future.
Edit: another user already pointed out the “problem for the future” here.
It definitely will be a problem, but it will be a legal problem, not a software problem. Even if the systemd devs decided to revert this commit and never collect age data, the law would still be just a shitty as it is now.
If this law said that everyone needed to provide a phone number instead of a birthday, would everyone here be just as angry at the Bell Labs developers who wrote the GECOS standard?
Everyone should be 76 years old, to honor System76 for helping.
Personally, I just don’t like the taste of asslicking in my distributions. Time to change to a non systemd distro.
The problem is the laws getting passed, not with software that gives people a choice about whether to comply.
OK, but the law didn’t even get written.That asshole decided to open up and deepthroat the boot before it even entered the room.the law didn’t even get written
https://calmatters.digitaldemocracy.org/bills/ca_202520260ab1043
Current Status: PASSED
Ummm… what?
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/40954#issuecomment-4032221990
I’m Jeremy from System76. We are in talks with legislators and there are likely to be amendments to the age verification bills, as well as conflicting requirements in different jurisdictions. It may even be the case that open source operating systems are exempted entirely. I detailed this on the xdg mailing list here:
https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xdg/2026-March/014797.html
I have other concerns about this specific implementation. By relying on systemd, which is decidedly unportable to non-Linux operating systems, and not used across all Linux operating systems either, it will force at least one alternative implementation to exist. If these implementations end up having to collect jurisdiction specific requirements, that makes it much harder for compliance.
IDK, I read about this bullshit like last week, and it was always presented in future tense. I saw this post from Jeremy from System 76 today in the goddamn Git thread, so excuse me for not understanding the current state of the problem.
The problem is the laws getting passed, not with software that gives people a choice about whether to comply.
Is it going to give a choice, though? As more and more of these laws are passed, soon people will have no choice. Open-source software was supposed to be about freedom, and I see this as anything but that.
You mean they’re complying with Meta’s age verification at OS level lobbying?
https://github.com/upper-up/meta-lobbying-and-other-findings
they also open accompanied PRs on this and I’m a little frightened
https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-provision/pull/1338
https://github.com/archlinux/archinstall/pull/4290
