An analysis from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive (ATF) could not conclusively connect a bullet fragment recovered during Charlie Kirk’s autopsy to the rifle found near the scene of the rightwing political activist’s killing – and the FBI is running additional tests, lawyers for Kirk’s accused murderer said in recent court filings.
In the court filings, Tyler Robinson’s defense team also asked for a delay to a preliminary hearing scheduled in May, saying they need time to review the bullet analysis as well as an enormous amount of other material that could contribute to the suspect’s defense.
The ATF’s bullet analysis report has been kept private, but attorneys have cited snippets in other public filings that say the results were inconclusive.
The defense said in its motion that it may try to use the analysis to clear Robinson of blame during the preliminary hearing while prosecutors aim to show they have enough evidence against him to proceed with a trial.
Charlie Kirk’s killing was an inside job. Where was Erika? Where was Trump? Where are the Epstein files?
Erika and J.D. sitting in a tree S.N.I.P.I.N.G.
that made me laugh out loud
I doubt it. It doesn’t make sense to go after him specifically. His reach wasn’t really that big prior to his death. He like many other conservative grifters peaked in 2016, and he’s been declining ever since. It also doesn’t make sense because he’s a big Trump ass licker, and he never really wavered from that. There’s no reason to target him over someone like Tucker Carlson for example.
I think the simplest explanation is often what turns out to be the correct one. I think it’s more likely that some rando who hated him for either being too far right or not far right enough took the opportunity to kill him when they had the chance. Considering how the shooting took place in Utah, there’s definitely no shortage of whackos who would do such a thing.
I have read somewhere that the whole “bullet forensics” process is mostly pseudoscience anyway. A quick search found this article:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-field-of-firearms-forensics-is-flawed/
If a shell casing wasn’t ejected on the scene (like with a bolt-action not cycled) then all they would have to analyze is the what’s-left-of-bullet which is possibly just a mess of lead and copper. May or may not have rifling marks left on it
Same with fingerprinting and blood spatter analysis. There is very little within the field of forensics that is backed by science. Fingerprints are not admissible evidence in many courts.
“We’re 100% certain the one responsible for destroying the eucalyptus bush is either you or this koala. Why don’t you just admit it now and save yourself some trouble?”
*munches on leaves*
It was the koala!
Eats shoots and leaves!
gangster koala
The sinister panda that has been lurking around the scene of the crime chuckles to itself and capers off.
not anymore fingerprinting, a study came out recently how fingerprints can be very similar to one or another
There are points of similarity in fingerprinting, and every state has their own number of points to be a match. They all accept them as evidence.
There are points of similarity in fingerprinting, and every state has their own number of points to be a match.
You mean they bring in an “expert” to testify that the fingerprints match… and when you give 2 “experts” the same set of fingerprints to compare, they literally come to disagreeing conclusions in 50% of tests
It is not a scientific or analytical process with scientifically identified “points of similarity”, its just a person who is deemed an “expert”, who looks at 2 fingerprints and says “yeah these look similar, and they look similar in X different places so 👍”
There are the actual standards, then there are prosecutors perverting them. Prosecutors are the least trustworthy people on the planet. Total pieces of shit, no argument here. But fingerprints themselves aren’t junk science as I’ve read, not like past hair analysis, blood spatter, bite mark analysis, 911 voice recording analysis, or any number of other junk sciences. As I understand it.
But don’t let me dismiss your point out of hand, what gave you this opinion, did you read something as such, you have a source on this?
I searched and couldn’t find any information about fingerprints not being admissible in any courts. I’ve found a lot of stories about how they aren’t 100% accurate (closer to 95-99 percent), but not one story about how fingerprints were not admissible.
Where are these “many courts” that don’t accept fingerprints?
Did you try?
fingerprint evidence is not currently permitted to be reported in court unless examiners claim absolute certainty that a mark has been left by a particular suspect. This courtroom certainty is based purely on the opinion of experts
https://science.psu.edu/news/barriers-use-fingerprint-evidence-court-unlocked-statistical-model
Fingeprints are not admissable, just some guy’s opinion, because fingerprint identification has no real basis in science. Science is not based purely on someone’s opinion. And no, they aren’t 95-99% accurate (especially because it is just some guy eyeballing it), when tested by giving multiple “experts” the same set of prints, the “experts” come to disagreeing conclusions about if the prints match or not over half the time.
Oh, come on. You’re just being pedantic. Fingerprints are allowed as evidence in probably every court in the world, as long as they have been reviewed by an expert. Yes, technically it is the expert’s testimony that is the evidence, but that is the case with most “evidence.” Prosecutors don’t just show the jurors a medical chart and tell them to interpret that evidence. They have a doctor give testimony on why that medical chart means X, Y, and Z.
(https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4008377/)
8% false negative and 0.1% false positive… so 92% accurate in that study. Just slightly better than your “half the time.”
Computers can achieve 60% accuracy with contact-less scanning and 99.5% with contact scanning. A phone app can get 95% accuracy. Again, somewhat better than your “half the time.”
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/history-and-legacy-latent-fingerprint-black-box-study
7.5% false negative and 0.1% false positive.
https://www.uclalawreview.org/reliable-application-of-fingerprint-evidence/
FBI study showed 99.7% accuracy, and Miami Police study showed 95% accuracy.
Partial prints are much less accurate than full prints, but to say that fingerprint analysis is so inaccurate that it isn’t allowed in many courts is disingenuous. Expert testimony on fingerprint analysis is allowed in every court, which is what a normal person would mean when they say fingerprints are allowed as evidence.
I seem to recall that the debate is more about partial prints, which are often all that’s found at a scene. A “100% match” of a small part of a print isn’t the same as a 100% match to the whole print. And even full prints can be of varying quality: the print can be smeared to varying degrees, or on a substrate that allows for diffusion of the print once it’s made (e.g, an oily surface).
And even if it does, they’ll be so mangled as to be useless. Like you could say "ok the rifle has four grooves at 1:8” but you’ve got a fraction of a bullet that was squished into an entirely different shape on impact.
They have a sort of computer-aided 3-D reconstruction process, but that’s pretty sketchy, too.
Enhance!
“I asked ChatGPT and it said that gun fired the bullet.”
“I asked ChatGPT and it said that gun fired the bullet.”
“Youre absolutely right!!”
DJ Trump did Kirk 11.
Can Kirk fuel meld Trumps beam?
If you’re going to report on bullet analysis, you need to also report on the evolution of the science. Which is to say, the way we understand bullet analysis from a show like CSI or something is incorrect. Bullets simply can’t be linked to firearms like fingerprints can be linked to people.
The way I understand the science is that bullet analysis tells us if a bullet is from a family of guns, not a specific gun like it was used in the past. Bullet analysis and be used to rule out a weapon, not to directly tie one to a crime. This article doesn’t tell us the gun was eliminated like it suggests.
His neck just did that.
The front fell off.
towed beyond the environment
God must’ve smited him
Can’t wait for the 2nd shooter theories. Didn’t Kirk’s head jerk back, and to the left?
Turns out face enlargement surgery has serious side effects.
It was spontaneously created by the Almighty. You didn’t need proof of the bullet’s firing. You just need strong enough belief. If God came down and snatched the bullet from Trump’s ear, he also placed this one.
erika grifting kirk already forgiven tyler.
Nah she forgave the killer (not TR)
Bullet tracing is mostly a TV fiction. This headline is just the natural state of things.
Especially for 5.56/.223 where one of the major selling points is the cavitation it causes in soft tissue. “cavitation” being a polite term for “makes fucking explode”.
Its why actual footage of mass shootings is so horrifying. Media (and video games that glorify it…) like to paint it as neat little holes when the reality is you have one neat little hole for the entrance wound and a giant fist sized one or larger for the exit.
And all of that does a number on the bullet itself.
… The official story is that Kirk was shot with a 30-06.
A 30-06 is not a 5.56.
The official story is that Robinson shot Kirk with a 30-06, his grandpa’s old bolt-action rifle.
Why are you talking about a 5.56?
That’s nowhere in the article, its not part of the official story / prosecution case.
The whole bullet gun fingerprint thing is total bullshit, but it’s not completely impossible to determine caliber depending on the size of the fragment which could rule out a specific firearm.
Edit: I dont fucking trust the forensic analyst either and the article stated there were few specifics. I agree with you but just wanted to point out that it is feasible to rule out some things
Gun “finerprinting” is and isn’t bullshit.
The reality is that for a given configuration of a gun, you do get some rather distinct markings on a bullet. It is less “We can 100% determine this bullet was fired by this bigoted dipshit’s gun so let’s hand it to him so he can dramatically show he took the firing pin out” but you can get within a pretty high level of confidence.
Unless… the shooter cleaned their gun. Even just field stripping can often be enough. Let alone if they actually remove the firing pin and reinstall it (not even replacing).
So it is not useful if someone escaped for days and nobody could find them until they got narced on. It IS useful if you catch them on their way home and they don’t know to do this.
But also? it depends on the bullet being intact. Which, as mentioned above, is not often the case for stuff like 5.56 in soft tissue.
This is NOT Proof of anything at All!
-Pizzagate believers who call Michelle Obama a legitimate Man!
Every high profile murder that happens from now on will be conspiracy-theoried to death. Articles like this fuel it. I think it often makes sense to doubt the story we’re told. But many Lemmy users for example, are not “doubting”. They “know” what happened.
Yup. The smallest fragment of doubt will be a mountain of fuel.
our species is too stupid for the internet
Agree
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From your comment history:
It’s also rumoured, for a long time, decades, that the US has kill switches in most of the world’s computers. A fusible link they can send a message to that bricks it.
Yikes.
I mean, the Israelis kind of had something similar for a bunch of pagers, but instead of bricking the device, they just violently exploded.
I hadn’t hurt about that, that is crazy. But you have to admit “a bunch of pagers” is a lot different than “most of the world’s computers”.
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That is one of many windows into your thought process including your response to me here. I didn’t even state an opinion on the conspiracy theories, you just got mad that you thought someone implied they doubted them.
As for my comments being worthless, it would be much easier to block me than imply you’ve been stalking me and hate me. I’m taking my own advice here just momentarily.
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So when do we get the evidence that this kid wasn’t involved, and is an AIPAC plant?
In a foreign-made documentary that’ll drop in about 30 years.
Or on youtube in a hundred places already but sure.
Never. That is what it was though. Something similar to that anyway. We should all know it, but plenty on “the left” here silence questioning the obviously false on at least three points fbi information, officially because some on the right also questioned that evidence and therefore they are opposite of that.
Look at my username. I’m pretty damn far left. There are idiots everywhere, to misquote Mel Brooks, “We’re all surrounded by assholes.”
Truer words have never been spoken. Surrounded, and now under siege, by assholes.
Ahh, ok. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part.
Completely and totally unrelated question to the topic because your username interests me.
What kind of communist is Tasslehoff Burrfoot?
A kender. All kender society is communist to the extreme. There’s not much in the way of currency, and what does exist, exists because of states outside of Kenderhome. All public property is communal. Hell, the “jail/palace” is only used if you manage to FORGET TO HAVE SEX with another kender, because they are so fucking ADD that is an actual issue.
Most people don’t understand kender at all, and think they are just annoying. That’s not what we are. We’re the counterpoint to the gnomes. We can take anything and make it into something interesting, we don’t really understand private property, and personal property is shared amongst us, so others don’t like us. We take problems apart like there’s nothing that can stop us. That’s why I was picking locks IRL at the age of 2. It’s not to commit crimes, I don’t know if any of us are actually capable of doing that intentionally without a lot of disillusionment. We just want to explore everything, and fix all the problems we see. That makes us extremely annoying to others.
Almost makes you think Charlie tried to pull a Trump but rolled a critical fail.
Na, it was Israel. He had a meeting with then 2 weeks earlier that didn’t go well.
Lemmy’s content quality has been nosediving because of shit like this. Stop spreading conspiracy theories. If you have some sort of direct evidence showing there’s a link then post it and a discussion will be had, but making speculative claims with no proof is just misinformation.
There isn’t any direct evidence. If there was we would know for sure what happened
Then why are you spreading misinformation?
Well i guess we should ask so taking about it until the mystery is solved then
The issue isn’t that you’re presenting opinions, but trying to pander conspiracy theories as facts, that’s misinformation by definition.
This story stinks, totally impossible story by the fbi on three counts at least. No shit they didn’t release the ballistics results, because that rifle would’ve made a very different more dramatic wound than whatever hit kirk.
I found it interesting that after Joe Kent resigned from being Director of the National Counterterrorism Center, he went on the record to say that the FBI prevented them from investigating any foreign links to the Kirk assassination.
Edit: also, if anyone hasn’t seen this comedy bit on the assassination, it’s worth a watch.
Yep.
So many idiots here in this thread haven’t been following this story at all, they known nothing about the autopsy results.
There’s no way a 30-06 from the range and angle that Robinson was at… makes the wounds Kirk’s body had.
Yup. Said the exact same thing on the day. A 30-06 would have made a fist sized wound (bigger if it hit bone). The wound is consistent with a 5.56 or similar. Much smaller bore lower ft/lb projectile is more likely.
At 150 yards/meters, its something like a 5.56 carries ~950 ft/lbs of force, a 30-06 carries ~2200 ft/lbs of force.
Then you have a significant chunk of the bullet itself lodged in Kirk’s shoulder/collarbone.
That’s possible if a 5.56 from a different angle went through much of his neck and broke apart in his body.
But if a 30-06 hit his shoulder/collarbone from front on, that bone would have exploded.
If a 30-06 hit his throat/neck from the front, missing the spinal column… it would have blown off, yeah, a chunk of flesh between the size of a fist, an apple, an orange, a grapefruit… and the bullet would not have left a signifigant chunk of itself embedded in the shoulder/collarbone, because it would have just gone straight through the throat/neck.
Have we considered the possibility of multiple shooters? The gun that killed Kirk may not necessarily have been the one that was found.
Just trying to avoid jumping to conclusions.
That is precisely what I think is the case.
I think Robinson was there, but he was being monitored, being shadowed.
There are many more parts of the FBI narrative that do not add up.
Between this and the fake assassination attempt on Trump I’m convinced we need to just throw away the CIA and FBI.
I’m reading a lot, so I have no idea what’s true. Everything reads like a conspiracy theory these days.
Like the sheriff who brought in the suspect abruptly resigning coincidentally when the ballistic report was going to be released.
Or apparently the only other case where this happened, that a bullet of that calibre could not be traced back to the gun, was apparently the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr.
It all starts sounding very believable, but I guess you can do that with any case if you want.
How about the seemingly insane guy who was in the crowd, who after Kirk got shot, started shouting ‘I did it, I’m the shooter, shoot me!’, got arrested initially, for a few hours they thought this was the actual shooter, then realized he wasn’t.
Then, when this guy was being further questioned, he straight up said that he did that so that the real shooter could get away.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20e1jx0p5jo
https://www.fox13news.com/news/police-man-claimed-have-shot-charlie-kirk-so-real-gunman-could-escape
Yep, totally normal, nothing to see here.
plus trying to bury the story how robinson was a right wing nutter, and conservatives cant have that on the news.
He was from a right wing religious nutter family… he’s from Utah, this is extremely common there, they’re called Mormons…
But, at the same time, he was clearly very much questioning and rebelling against elements of that lifestyle.
I was / am a person not dissimilar to Robinson in at least broad strokes; from a crazy Christian upbringing, began to realize its a toxic, bigotted and factually dubious way of life and worldview as I got to high school and beyond.
Its not broadly accurate to call him a crazy right wing nutter, nor is it broadly accurate to call him a far left gay/trans/furry.
