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- politics@lemmy.world
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- politics@lemmy.world
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Viktor fucking POS Orban steps down with more dignity after 16 years than our own home grown dictator wannabe did after 4. What a timeline to be alive in.
Probably because Orban actually fears backlash from his population. The US doesn’t seem to have to worry about that for some strange reason…
Exactly. If Orbáns past failures had been as over-reported as his posturing, people would be way less surprised about his current democratic loss.
What country are you talking about when you say your home grown dictator?
Likely America
lol, yeah I figured
America: where even our store brand Hitler came from TEMU.
As well as the shoddy quality, there are definitely some pieces missing.
Tbh that was a big surprise, nobody predicted that. Still, happy he did, it will make cleaning house much easier
Because Orban has never been a dictator
But he sure as hell liked the boots on them.
On the one hand, his ideology is more or less identical to Orban’s (he used to be a Fidesz party member until two tears ago).
On the other hand, he is somewhat EU friendly, supports Ukraine and, most importantly, is the head of a different party. 16 years of Fidesz rule is over. That’s not nothing.
He was known in the party as someone who disagreed on many decisions made by Orbán. He also stated it was not easy to leave and/or cut ties due to mafia-like behavior, fear of his or his family’s life. His wife was head of Ministry of Justice, which she was kicked out
due to also going against Orbán’s wishes.pardoning a pedophile, and they divorced soon after.You have to understand that Orbán is literally an oligarch with tons of money, ties to Russia and the underworld. Magyar only quite recently collected enough support (about 2 years ago I think) to start his own political movement.
He was known in the party as someone who disagreed on many decisions made by Orbán.
Can you provide a source for this please? I am a Hungarian and never heard of this.
His wife was head of Ministry of Justice, which she was kicked out due to also going against Orbán’s wishes.
She was kicked out because she gave an official pardon to a well known pedophile. They divorced after that.
Can you provide a source for this please? I am a Hungarian and never heard of this.
They mentioned it in a Czech news podcast, so I’d link it to you, although I am not sure how useful that would be.
She was kicked out because she gave an official pardon to a well known pedophile. They divorced after that.
I’ve heard about the pardon, but not in direct relation to being kicked out because of that. Also sorry for my misinterpretation.
Oh okay. I am not arguing with you, just wanted some insight about how other countries cover the Orbán disaster. The pardon thing might just be a “find a scapegoat” scenario, in the Fidesz party that was a really popular solution to scandals. We will see how Magyar differs from Orbán, the bar is not high so we have hope things will get better.
I’d say it helps that Hungary being in the EU probably limited Orban going full dictator. The EU had been chastising Hungary. Withholding EU funds hurts Hungary quite a bit. This is a reason why the far right hates the EU and looking to dismantle it, with the help of their American friends.
Oh fucking please. Fidesz got hammered by corruption scandals in 2024, Magyar dramatically breaks from the party over corruption, and somehow builds a massive nationwide coalition in a matter of months? The Hungarian opposition somehow abandons all its beliefs and rallies around a politician who holds all Orban’s political views?
The term for this is “planned opposition”.
Magyar isn’t Orban’s rival. He’s Orban’s chosen successor.
It’s easy to win an election if you own all the candidates.
And y’all fell for it.
We will see when the vote comes up in the eu to support Ukraine
I really want to tell you how wrong you are, if I didn’t think the same… Let’s hope we are both wrong!
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If he was supposed to be Orban’s successor, they wouldn’t have had him start a new party or run a heavily pro-EU campaign. That makes no sense. You’d just have Orban step down and have the new guy take over in the next election cycle. Keeps momentum for the main party and all the installed cronies, no expectation of change from the population, no need to stir the hive. If Magyar backtracks on his promises now, you’ll end up with a lot of unrest among the people, exactly what you want to avoid when planning your succession.
Magyar’s been communicating very effectively with the people for years. Opposition rallying behind the best chance at unseating an autocrat who threatens to establish indefinite single-party rule only makes sense.
That’s why it’s called planned opposition. If you’re afraid of losing control to a genuine opposition movement, you set up a fake opposition movement that dramatically opposes you on a few big ticket items and generally agrees with you on the rest - or that dramatically opposes you on everything, but has no intention of keeping its promises.
Look, I’d like to be wrong. I hope I’m wrong. But I expect Magyar is going to make some dramatic economic moves that don’t actually change the economy, run some corruption show trials, crack down on political participation outside the two major parties, back down on his pro-EU stances, and quietly take his orders from Orban and Putin behind the scenes.
But which genuine opposition movement actually threatened Orban before Magyar broke with Fidesz?
Conspiracy smugness - I love it. I wonder what the technical term for that is.
Tisza already announced a pro-Europe course and who has to gain most of that - Ukraine, but since Orban can’t cut ties with Russia without falling out a window it was indeed a planned a opposition conspiracy by Orban that got taken over by Ukrainian intelligence which in turn is lead by the French DGSE, to get eastern Europe out of the Russian sphere.
So basically you fell for one of the oldest tricks the French intelligence services deploy since Napoleon. If you take over the man behind the man (in this case Selensky) you can’t lose and no one can trace it back to you.
NB: Ex falso, quod libet.
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Me: am cautiously and very slightly optimistic while being aware of the fact that Magyar has a lot of similarities to Orban, and that Orban accepts the outcome of the election.
You: You’ve been duped! He’s Orban’s chosen siccessor and you are fully unaware of this!
Like, come on, man. Have some amount of hope in the betterment of the world. I’m not saying that progress under Magyar is a guarantee. I’m saying there is a possibility.
Not OP, but even flatlining as opposed to constant downfall is a win.
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In 2026 I take what I can get. And I am damn glad for it!
Bernie Sanders is also a Democrat. Big parties, by definition, have people from all over the political spectrum inside.
I don’t know enough about him, but from what I read he is very different from Orban and his victory will be a case study for politicians all over the world that want to defeat Trumplike right wing politicians.
Big parties in FPTP and other non-proportional systems have people from all over the political spectrum.
Big parties in MMP and other proportional systems have ideologies and stick to their ideologies.
Bernie Sanders would never be in the same party as Joe Biden in a proportionally representative democracy.
FPTP is the poison that turns a good idea into a farce. On the surface, it’s far simpler to explain and thus a better way to “ease” people unfamiliar with democracy into the concept without having to explain the more democratic, but also more complex options.
It should be an initial stage at best, from which a more democratic solution would be developed, but by the time the need for that becomes obvious, the emerging “main” parties have a vested interest in maintaining power.
I don’t have a perfect solution. Humans are complex and flawed and education can be difficult if the motivation isn’t obvious. But I think pushing for more representative systems should be a priority for any movement trying to redeem democratic systems.
FPTP is crap, but all electoral systems can be gamed and can produce anomalous and antidemocratic results in various edge cases.
True. That’s why education and critical thinking is vital to maintaining a healthy democracy.
Big parties in MMP and other proportional systems have ideologies and stick to their ideologies.
Not really because big parties get more seats. In a voting circle with less people there will only be 1 or 2 seats available for that circle, so, they will go either 2 for the gov party or 1 for the gov and 1 for the main opposition party.
Smaller parties will only elect seats in the capital or big cities, which means if you want to have a political career you choose the party that more or less aligns with you from the big ones.
We wrote history today. Amazing victory
Congratulations! Russia, go home!
I’m happy for your people and for Europe. I hope this movement keeps its promises.
I hope this movement keeps its promises.
This sentence is a damning indictment of a political climate where keeping one’s promises is a hope, not a given. To worry about betrayal should be a fringe concern, not a reasonable scepticism.
And yet, here we are. It’s hard not to become a cynic.
Thank god! I hope that’s the last time we see Orban for a very very long time!!
Still a lot of work to do. His cronies still hold a ton of power and control much of the media.
Magyar winning will get the headlines but Tisza getting a supermajority in parliament (which they seem on track to do but I don’t think is official yet) will be the much more important win. That’s where durable reform can be made.
Exactly, not the time to relax but to work even harder to reverse the damage that was done.
Tisza getting a supermajority
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c2d8zw2d3rkt?post=asset%3Ac1a77fae-f1ed-4199-b821-86c5fce32a01#post
We are now at 96.37% of the votes counted and Tisza is projected to have 138 seats, Fidesz 55 seats and Our Homeland on six. Tisza is in the lead in 93 constituencies, while Fidesz is ahead in 13. Some votes are yet to be counted but a landslide victory is all but certain.
Are there good signs these guys would make such reforms instead of holding onto the power given by changes made by Orban?
They campaigned on wealth taxes, term limits for every member of parliament, an independent prosecutor’s office, joining the EPPO and so on.
They have unlimited power right now, but are dependent on an extremely heterogenous voter base that would implode if they look the wrong way.
Nothing is certain, but it could not look much better right now.
All good signs. I hope they follow through.
Y’all think the UK will rejoin the EU next?
And Ukraine, while they’re at it.
Well, there’s this story:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/apr/12/britain-single-market-rules-uk-eu-reset
Sure seems like a roundabout way of just… being in the EU.
Are you British, by chance? What’s the mood on Brexit these days?
The Brexit crowd have gone conspicuously silent about it. Their lack of crowing says a lot about it.
Even before Brexit, the tide had turned, and that’s only gotten stronger. Unfortunately, the government had their vote and hammered it through. (The fact there was an EU rule change, on tax transparency, the next day, and would have embarrassed a lot of rich UK toffs had NOTHING to do with the timing)
Unfortunately, the reform party is far too strong, and trying to drag us to the extreme right. Our “left wing” primary party (Labour) is now further right than the conservatives (center right party) traditionally sit.
It’s… frustrating.
That sounds… British. Frustrating, in a frustratingly orderly way.
Outside far-right politics must be making reform look bad in the UK though. Right? Like Hungary, Turkey, whatever’s going in Germany…
We are in a media bubble. Basically all our media is owned by a few rich arseholes and they bury a lot of anti right messages.
The BBC used to be remarkably honest and independent from government. The conservatives getting their claws into it was the beginning of the real problems. Even worse, the BBC’s impartiality has been so sacrosanct that a lot of older people just believe it.
A mild bit of light. The green party seems to also be making significant advances. Labour have often played the “don’t split the left vote” card on them. Now it looks like green is overtaking them in some areas. It just doesn’t show up well in a FPTP voting system.
Ah, moguls + FPTP strike again.
Yeah, I can see Green gaining traction as climate/environmental problems start to grow. The British Isles are relatively sensitive. Though it seems Green has had its own controversy (kinda like the small parties here in the US have).
The UK is still a lot more multi party at the lower levels of government, compared to the US. Unfortunately it’s erring towards the US system, rather than away from it.
Not a Brit. Sorry.
People tend to underestimate the enormous success of the EU. It can be seen in the economical developments of Poland and the Baltic states. Ukraine saw it and wanted in on it. Russia knowing that if Ukraine too would ‘fall’ to democracy, Russia itself would inevitably follow. So Navalny needed to be killed, Ukraine invaded, the EU sabotaged. Hungary was their pawn. Not only could Hungary halt EU decision making through veto’s, they could also be used in propaganda. How can Putin be all bad if even this EU country sympathizes with him? The EU will now be very inclined to make Hungary as succesfull as they can. It’s too early to celebrate, the Hungarian government will still be filled with lots of Fidesz bureaucrats. And the new government may still be inclined to use its ties with Russia. But the past decades have proven that the cheap Russian oil can’t compensate for the corruption that comes along. Magyars anti-corruption stance is pretty much saying: we want to model our country towards the EU examples, not Russia. Lets hope Magyar succeeds and other countries follow. Lets hope that eventually Belarus and Russia will rejoin the European family. The world has much to win here. The US not understanding why they need to support Ukraine tells us they don’t care much for democracy anymore. It’s understandable that if your government fails to supply you with decent living conditions, you won’t be inclined to support helping out other countries on the path towards decent government. But both can be done at the same time: focus on sorting out your own government, while simultaneously supporting other countries on the same path. The EU has been the driving force behind multilateralism. If we want a rules-based order, if we want to save the planet, if we want a better future, we want a strong EU leading the way. We want to support nations in their striving for democracy.
Lets hope that eventually Belarus and Russia will rejoin the European family.
That will take time.
The Russia is now politically about where Ukraine was around year 1970. And it took Ukraine until 2008 to start seriously becoming democratic, and even then it seemed to keep regressing again and again. Only the aggression by the Russia in 2014 stabilized Ukraine’s path towards democracy. This took Ukraine altogether about 40 years and the Russia won’t be able to be faster than that. The couple decades of extremely immense propaganda have taken their toll. If the propaganda somehow ends this year or the next, then the children born now will still be imbued by it because of their parents’ thinking, and the children of the children being born now are going to be reasonably okay, already. But still not really ready for EU. But the grandchildren of children being born in 2026 might really be able to feel European. So, when those are adults, then maybe. If the Russia ends the propaganda now.But the Russian propaganda is something that has existed for several centuries and from conversations I’ve had with Russians in Russian language, I don’t really get a feeling that they will be letting go of that anytime soon. A Russia without Pushkin… What would that even be? Such a huge part of their literature is so toxic that whatever they try to achieve, their old literature will pull them back into what they have been for centuries.
We can always live in hope, but I really don’t think the Russia can become anything humanely thinking anytime in the next two centuries at least.
Also if Russia joins the EU, the EU would be 2/3 Russia in terms of land mass and a quarter of the EU population would be a Russian citizen. Not sure if that is a good idea. Would give this one country way too much leverage and power inside the EU, especially once the Russian GDP per capita matches Germany or Netherlands. Like we already see how much power Germany has in the EU.
Russia should defederate and fall apart first like every federal district or republic should become their own country before they join the EU.
I wasn’t so much thinking of them joining the EU, but of them being in close collaboration and with more or less aligned values as the EU, rather than our worst enemy. I agree it might not be a good idea to have such a huge country in the EU.
A collapse of Lukashenko’s gangster dictatorship would be a welcome development. He’s propped up by Putin, but there’s not much Putin will be able to do to save his bacon if the Belarussian people decide it’s now safe to stand up to him.
What’s recently transpired in Moldova followed the same pattern, and Russia lost that puppet. And now they’ve lost their Hungarian fifth columnist too. Now, if the oil price drops back, Putin will be even worse off.
What a great day for Democracy, now hopefully he follows through on his promise of constitutional reform and dismantling the Orban mafia so this can’t happen again.
Jail that bastard.
Also:
Great, lets see what changes now. It would be good to have Hungary “back” in the European Union. But it is too soon to tell.
So this means EU’s aud to Ukraine is unblocked, unless the lowlife fascists in Czechia or Slovakia decide to take Hungary’s place in being obstructive.
They better don’t. Otherwise we’ll send JD on a visit.
First things, first: Congratulations to all Hungarians!
As for the rest of Europe, does this mean the other Russian agent, Fico, won’t have anybody covering his back in the EU anymore?
More right wingers aren’t a solution for right wing problems. All they’re going to do is give the hard right cover.
Pro russia israel old orban gone
Pro israel young orban came
L bozo
