- cross-posted to:
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- globalnews@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- world@quokk.au
- globalnews@lemmy.zip
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FYI, The Straits Times is basically a step down from a state mouthpiece. If you don’t believe me, just read the article:
The cannabis seized from Omar is sufficient to feed the addiction of about 144 abusers for a week.
Here’s a Human Rights Watch article from five days ago not flagrantly trying to justify the state-sanctioned murder of a man convicted of an entirely harmless crime. Fuck TST for this journalistic swill.
144 abusers for a week
By my calculations, that’s about 18 ounces (144/8, assuming an eighth per person per week).
That’s not that much, as far as international smuggling goes.
Still, it’s a bullshit reason to execute someone over.
If you wanna smoke weed, Singapore isn’t the place for you…
Yeah, I saw that and was like, holy fuck, that’s fucked up. What a fucked up country.
You think it is harmless, Singapore does not.
You think I think I care what Singapore thinks.
I think Tharman Shanmugaratnam should be tied, blindfolded, and walked into the Port of Singapore over a plank covered in faced-up used heroin needles.
I don’t assume either way. Are you American?
Imagine killing a human being for possession of a harmless plant. It’s wildly unjust.
deleted by creator
Everywhere that has legalized weed had this same bullshit scaremongering about how cars are going to be running over schoolchildren every 5 seconds because everyone would just be driving around high all the time.
That hasn’t happened at all, so why do you still make the bullshit claim?
Weed + cars doesn’t seem to be a big problem in a state where legal weed is everywhere unlike alcohol.
A great deal of alcohol is consumed out late at night in places one is likely to drive to and from. Almost all accidents happen to people who are plastered not least of which because drunk people get increasingly confident and simultaneously incapable of judging their ability.
Worse drunk people even quite drunk people can reasonably pilot a car which is why most DUIs are given only after hundreds miles of drunk drinking.
People’s false confidence is rewarded right up until they go to jail or kill someone.
Weed rarely produces the degree of impairment and when it does you aren’t going anywhere. Also since there are no legal venues to smoke it you are most commonly at home
In places where cannabis has been legalized, a common side-effect is a decline in traffic fatalities. Weed smokers are more likely to be couch-locked when they’ve had too much, rather than going out driving like drunks do.
Exactly there are no legal places out and about to smoke so people smoke at home then rather than feeling energetic and pugnacious they are mellow and sleepy so they have neither the need nor desire to drive.
As we speak imbeciles are trying to ruin this by developing testing designed to harass minorities on the side of the road and test whether the have smoked within several days instead of several hours. Soon you may face driving while brown charges for having smoked yesterday because testing cannot accurately measure impairment or recency of usage.
so why isn’t insomnia punishable by death or otherwise? That would potentially lead someone to crash a car too.
Do you chose to take insomnia? I’d doubt that.
But to be clear : I am against death penalty. It robs any chance for someone to change for the better, and even the worst criminal can change and try to repair, even partially, the damages he did. In the current case the death penalty is way overblown. But not everyone would be of that opinion, unfortunately.
I can absolutely choose not to go to bed, yes.
Not going to bed and insomnia are two different things. Insomnia is a condition where you try to sleep, and can’t. Not going to bed, well, is a choice.
In both cases, you can be held responsible if you end up falling asleep on the wheel while sleep deprived, and cause an accident.
In both cases, you can be held responsible if you end up falling asleep on the wheel while sleep deprived, and cause an accident.
But that’s not what you said - you were saying that because people have the potential to cause an accident when smoking weed they should be executed.
If is was the case, I understand better the downvotes. That wasn’t my intention de frame it like that, I’m against death penalty.
What I intended to say is that people who takes substances that impair their judgement, and go drive afterward are a danger to everyone around them. They should be sanctioned, just not by death penalty, which, again, make no sense whatsoever in any situation.
Cannabis isn’t a harmless plant, unless it is a variety without THC (study: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9940647/). And I doubt a smuggler would import Cannabis without THC. Smuggled cannabis are almost always THC heavy plants, and considering how much he seem to have with him, he either intended to fly to the moon and back, or to sell it around.
Now, THC heavy cannabis is a problem because, like alcohol, it impair the jugement about how ready to drive one is, and I’ve seen many of my friends get into accidents because they thought they where somehow not affected by THC. My words were harsh, no doubt, but I never called for any of them to get death penalties.
Edit: drug resistance exists, of course, but isn’t frequent. I happen to have a mild resistance to opioid based painkillers (found out after a surgery, worst pain I have been for a long time 😅)
People choose to “take insomnia” every second of every minute of every hour of every day, in thousands of ways.
Driving while knowingly impaired is an offence in the UK.
again, the comment I was replying to said weed should be illegal just incase you dui and I was saying “why isn’t being tired in case you drive illegal then?”
That explains why Starmer has a driver.
have such hubris that they believe those averse effect only affect others
TBF there is a lot of variability in how cannabis affects different people. I’ve got a friend who had to quit because it made him extremely paranoid, to the point that he’d hallucinate. That isn’t universal by a long shot. I haven’t experienced paranoia or hallucinations, the biggest side effect I’ve experienced is sleepiness. Meanwhile my friend found it harder to sleep while high because his brain kept playing tricks on him. Very different brains, very different results.
Though I don’t doubt that plenty of people misjudge their abilities while high, just as they misjudge their abilities when drunk. But it’s important to note that it isn’t necessarily hubris that makes a person say, “Weed doesn’t do that to me.” Some of us genuinely experience different effects. You can’t truly know what’s going on in someone’s head unless you’re the one living in it.
True.
That’s just my own experience with my own potheads friends. Some of them who got into accidents because they thought they where better than other, and misjudged how much cannabis affected them.
Not everyone is like them, sure. But to this day I never met someone who act rational when under the influence of drugs. Maybe I didn’t met enough drugs user, who knows.
a plant so harmless that someone felt compelled to smuggle it into a country thats known to be extremely hostile to it, ignoring hundreds of warnings, bypassing several opportunities to get rid of it, and ultimately being caught with it and facing the very predictable, very openly warned and expressed repercussions?
A plant that drives someone to do that doesnt sound so harmless to me.
Well that’s only natural because you’re just a random idiot.
People would smuggle chocolate bars if they were made illegal, that doesn’t make them harmful.
So far the Singaporean government has killed a lot more people than cannabis ever did, and for what?
People would smuggle chocolate bars if they were made illegal, that doesn’t make them harmful.
What if I told you a chocolate bar killed my family?
Well I would be lying but WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Well I would be lying but WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!
Sounds like something that should be said to the stupid fuckers commiting suicide by government by doing this stupid shit.
wOn’T sOmEoNe ThInK oF tHe ChIlDrEn
(You want to legalize Pedophila)
Where the literal fuck did you get that idea!?
A plant that drives someone to do that doesnt sound so harmless to me.
Audrey II
It’s a question about respecting a society’s conventions. When you enter a country, you choose to abide with the laws in place, even if you disagree with them. Singapore makes it very clear what happens to those who smuggle drugs.
While one should avoid getting executed, it’s also fucked up that country does it
While one should avoid getting executed,
Wise words to live by.
Fine people for conventions, sure. You don’t see any mena country straight up executing women for not wearing a hijab, despite their claims that it erodes ‘morality’.
Their country, their law. The best way to force them to change is to not give them your business.
Never respect a murderous society, it’s stupid.
…then, don’t go?
Singapore is such a fucked up place, yet righties love to act like it’s some utopia.
Two pounds of weed btw. A man’s life because he wanted to get high with friends at a party or something. It’s illegal to import so it’s not unlikely that he wanted to get a bunch and use it over the course of a year. Fucking insane. Also fuck this articles’s loaded language and framing.
Also very likely he was going to sell it.
I’m for legalising weed, but trying to import it to a country that is notorious for executing people for even small amounts is fucking moronic.
144 people for about a week, per the article.
That’s like 1500 dollars of weed. Hardly worth attempting to smuggle it unless it’s for personal use for a good long while.
Are you sure it’s that cheap in Singapore if it’s illegal there? A kilo is about 20 grand here in Estonia, has been for ages. When buying by the gram anyway, I don’t know anyone who buys it by the kilo. Assume it would be a bit cheaper them. And we don’t execute smugglers, it’s just illegal.
I’d assume if they kill smugglers it’ll be way more expensive in Singapore
When buying by the gram anyway
If it’s 20 per G retail, it’s probably about a third of that price per kilo. Risk premium and distributor profit.
And yeah, I’ve never smelled it anywhere I’ve visited in Estonia (or any of the other Baltic states). I like a simple life not involving fines or police shakedowns, so I never buy it unless it’s legal, or (as in the Netherlands and Spain) if not strictly legal, effectively so.
A lot of the mules are either extorted into carrying it, or don’t even know that someone has slipped something into their luggage.
“Oh that? That’s my personal consumption kilo. Reason for visit? Business.”
Singapore makes it extremely clear this is the punishment for smuggling any drugs.
This is what the paper disimberkment form used to look like before they switched to an electronic version. I think the electronic version says something similar.
That’s really fucked up.
It probably is fucked up. But if you know the consequences of getting caught, why would you risk it? If freedom to do drugs is important either be in a jurisdiction that is lenient.
I mean you can try to change the laws and try to protest and get political change, but that wouldn’t leave you much off in Singapore’s authoritarian air.
So the question is, was the hit of recreational drug that important to take the risk?
I’m not saying what or what shouldn’t be, I’m just saying knowing you know what IS, why would you? It’s like you know lava is hot, but you step in it anyway because it should be a morally a volcanic rock.
The guy was an idiot. Doesn’t change the fact that Singaporean authoritarianism is fucked up. Being an idiot shouldn’t be a death sentence.
Death sentence for being an idiot is exactly what the US needs right now
More than half the population would be executed.
Now now, don’t threaten us with a good time!
Being an idiot shouldn’t be a death sentence.
Sometimes I wish it were. But then I’ll do something idiotic and have second thoughts.
We know innocent people are found guilty every day, all over the world.
Only an idiot would cheer on a murderous state, it’s a shame.
was the hit of recreational drug that important to take the risk
He didn’t get executed for taking a “hit”.
He got executed for trafficking a kilo.
Which is still pretty stupid, because 500 grams is the cutoff for the death penalty. He would have been better off to bring in 499 grams. But I assume he was going to make a pretty good profit, and that money was his main motivation.
Right, clearly so was the risk of a quick buck worth his life? Should be the question.
Got him a Darwin Award at least.
How do you know the “guilty” was even aware that they were smuggling?
Figure it out.
Why are you defending a murderous state?
It probably is fucked up. But if you know the consequences of getting caught, why would you risk it? If freedom to do drugs is important either be in a jurisdiction that is lenient.
Put on your thinking cap for just a few minutes, and imagine that you are a drug supplier and you want a piece of the Singapore market (as it’s very lucrative).
Would you…
a) Nervously smuggle it yourself and possibly be caught and murdered
or…
b) Pay some desperately poor dummy to deliver it for you, unawares?
These are the people that Singapore is murdering. The desperately poor dummies.
They also make sure to repeat that on any flights landing there.
Once you’re on the plane, you’re already committed.
If they declare them before disembarking, they will likely avoid capital punishment. Still will result in a heavy sentencing, though.
Death to Allegra Geller!
Guess what? If you put up 50 signs saying “Trespassers will be shot!!!” all over your property, and some kid trespasses to get his crashed drone and you fill them full of bullets, you’re still a murderer.
Singapore is murdering people, and it’s revolting. Concentration camps were legal… but we still call it murder today, now don’t we?
Singapore is just as guilty
William Gibson (author of Neuromancer among other things, not all of them good) published an article about Singapore 30 years ago. It’s titled Disneyland with the Death Penalty.
33 years later and much of this is still very relevant. It has dated somewhat, but accurately reflects what I experienced in Singapore during work travel over the past few years.
At the least, if you’re interested in what dystopian science fiction writers think about Singapore it certainly dropped some puzzles pieces into place for me.
Fuck that sounds weird and uncomfortable of a place. I need some sketch to feel comfortable.
I need some scotch to feel comfortable.
I need some scratch to feel comfortable.
Crotch.
Disneyland with the Death Penalty
I’ve also heard it referred to as China Lite.
Long ago, I dated a Singaporean woman, closely connected to the ruling elite, educated at British public schools and a top-tier university. According to her, along with the relentless propaganda claiming Singapore is a meritocracy, there is also a deep underlying culture of corruption. It’s bad for your health and future income to compete in business against ruling-family-connected ventures. When bidding on major contracts, you’ll need insiders or their proxies to be partners or you’ll be frozen out. There’s nothing as vulgar as open bribery happening, but self-dealing, conflicts of interest and biased courts deliver the same outcomes. And whatever you do, don’t be a prominent member of an opposition party if you value your livelihood and freedom.
And if you’re a Singaporean Malay, know your place or you’ll end up in deep trouble. There are a few tokenism opportunities if you don’t rock the boat.
I’ve been there on business a few times. At least it seems they’re not persecuting gay people as much anymore, and civil society is a bit more open than it was a couple of decades ago. They even seem slightly less obsessed with caning and massive fines for minor offences than they used to be. But “less stifling” is far from the same as “free.”
Disneyland with the Death Penalty.
Actually it is pretty fitting since their judicial system is medieval. They still do caning for example.
The cannabis seized from Omar is sufficient to feed the addiction of about 144 abusers for a week.
What the hell is up with this bizarre line in the article? “Addiction”? “Abusers”? Is the the article writer fucking serious with this Reefer Madness shit? What a god damn clown.
Those hopeless addicts are consuming a bit over 3 grams of weed per week. Definite threat to society there.
And of course the guy being executed is not from the Chinese elite, he’s a Singaporean Malay.
No, 1009.1g divided by 144 potheads is 7g. So the article assumes they are smoking a gram a day each. There should be protests about this, and I think the author of this article should be fired, it’s so insensitive.
It’s an Asian outlet. They never really had much sympathy for them.
As someone who has smoked weed for nearly 10 years now, it is addictive and can be abused.
“addiction” used to mean physical withdrawals… now it means weed, television, working out, phones, sex, and more.
Weed withdrawal is milder than caffeine withdrawal for most people.
With 10 being death from withdrawal (like from alcohol), on a scale of 1 to 10 cannabis is a 1.
Yeah, when I had a heroin addiction it kind of used to piss me off when people would talk about addictions to porn and stuff. I’d think they had no idea what addiction really meant. Try going cold turkey from smack. But TBF even though maybe the word addiction doesn’t apply in the same way, it’s certainly true that any compulsive behaviour that’s detrimental to your life is a problem that needs help.
Nice to see you left it behind, congrats.
Regardless… that’s enough to be considered trafficking pretty much everywhere… and he did it in Singapore?! Nice Darwin Award.
Singapore loves to pretend it’s a modern country with it’s gardens and fancy buildings.
But beneath the surface is an overworked population ruled by a family dictatorship.
It’s china with a better passport. There is no freedom of press there.
Disneyland with the death penalty. - William Gibson
Well… there’s a Disneyland in California, USA… which does have the death penalty.
The dictatorship is how you get the gardens and fancy buildings.
No, that’s from science and engineers and public works. Fascists just like to co-opt that because it LOOKS socialist and try to use that to trick people.
Giant bronze statues of themselves, castles, starvation, fear, poor decisions, and heavy militarization is what dictatorships ACTUALLY get you.
No, that’s from science and engineers and public works.
We have scientists, engineers, and city planners too in America, despite what anyone says. But we don’t have the draconian enforcement that these places have.
family dictatorship.
It’s effectively a single party state with an elected dictator, but AFAIK their prime ministers and presidents don’t come all from the same family.
You’re right it’s not a dictatorship like North Korea, but it’s elections are also not as clean and fair as other modern democracies.
The same ruling party has dominated since independence, and maintained structural imbalance suppressing the ability for any meaningful opposition to rise.
While leadership in Singapore isn’t hereditary, the nation has been guided by a very small political elite originating from Lee Kuan Yew.
And that’s why I’ll never move to Singapore.
Because you cant avoid repercussions of easily avoidable actions?
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Yep, thats the typical response when people are backed into a corner and cant make a valid retort.
LOL you didnt realize that wasnt comment OP. Username still fits.
And another one attacking the person cause they cant say anything against the message.
No, because I require prescriptions that would earn me a death sentence there.
You might want to get a better doctor. Cannabis has been found to be ineffective for most of the conditions it’s prescribed for. The very few that it has shown effectiveness for have better treatment options available. https://www.uclahealth.org/news/release/evidence-lacking-medical-cannabis-most-conditions
Ain’t cannabis, which is exactly my point since the classification of “narcotic” is too arbitrary to justify the sentence of death, but thanks for the pop medsci slop.
As far as I know, all other narcotics prescribed in the US are allowed in Singapore with an HSA approval, which is exactly my point.
I’m not in the US, and I know for an absolute fact that mine isnt. Even if that were all true, guess what, that permit would not qualify me to move there with my medication as it is not permanent. Even if that wasn’t the fucking case, then I would still not want to risk a lapse in renewing my permit or filing it improperly and losing access to my medication or worse.
You do not know enough about this topic to be so dedicated to pushing misinformation. Fuckin internet dudes die on hills they don’t even care about enough to look up shit, why?
Take a chill pill. I did look up the HSA application for medicines. Cannabis and chewing gums were specifically banned, but nothing else was called out.
Cannabis has been found to be ineffective for most of the conditions it’s prescribed for.
No, it hasn’t.
Cannabis has been proven to be a very effective treatment for nausea and seizures and more (as your source clearly indicates immediately).
Reading is hard ¯\(ツ)/¯
Also, studies were quite impossible until recently (with the relaxation of The Drug War). We’re still learning about the efficacy.
Regardless, cannabis has been an effective treatment for many medical issues for centuries for a reason, as we are still discovering, as your source clearly indicates.
Cannabis has been found to be ineffective for most of the conditions it’s prescribed for.
No, it hasn’t.
From the very beginning of the linked article: “Medical cannabis lacks adequate scientific backing for most of the conditions it is commonly used to treat”
Reading is hard, as you say.
Cannabis has been proven to be a very effective treatment for nausea and seizures
Not “very” and not for “nausea and seizures” in general. It has shown effectiveness specifically for “chemotherapy-induced nausea” and “certain severe pediatric seizure disorders such as Dravet syndrome and Lennox-Gastaut syndrome” according to the very article that you claim to have read. For more, Dr. Chung explains
“Recently, cannabidiol (CBD) is the one that showed efficacy, but people tend to extend that into any other epilepsy… It is confined, as evidence suggests, to those 2 syndromes, but not other types of epilepsy.”
The standard of care treatment for chemotherapy induced nausea is antiemetics. More recently, Dravet Syndrome can be treated with Zorevunerson with over 90% efficacy. This is without the risk of cannabis associated psychotic symptoms. I have personally witnessed a smart kid at a top university succumb to debilitating marijuana induced schizophrenia and get banned from campus as a safety risk. That is not a side effect that patients should accept.
Regardless, cannabis has been an effective treatment for many medical issues for centuries for a reason,
Mercury was a mainstay in medicine for treating syphilis, constipation, and infections (using calomel) from the 16th to 20th centuries, often causing severe toxicity. Medical science is a relatively new concept. Doctors didn’t start sterilizing their instruments until the late 19th century.
Very smug, how many innocent deaths are you comfortable with?
Cops are found planting evidence all around the world… the judged are proven innocent with DNA every day.
… and even if everything above wasn’t the case, even IF every one of the guilty were truly guilty… they were each murdered by the State, many with no blood on their hands.
It’s an abomination. But be smug about it, it lets everybody know what you are
You know what else is easily avoidable? Not murdering people. Singapore should try it
Singapore does try it.
Thats why there are warnings everywhere about what will happen to you if you are so unfathomably self centered and stupid to try and do it anyways.
Basically begging people NOT to do it.
And no amount of your performative pearl clutching will change the fact that this is the smugglers fault and that he faced the very publicly known consequences of it.
Trying to compare it to police planting evidence is a fucking insult to actual victims.
But I’m the smug one. Yeah, sure buddy.
Singapore does try it.
Not very hard. Stop murdering people over transporting plants.
Simple.
Thats why there are warnings everywhere about what will happen to you if you are so unfathomably self centered and stupid to try and do it anyways. Basically begging people NOT to do it.
Doesn’t matter, still murder.
And no amount of your performative pearl clutching will change the fact that this is the smugglers fault and that he faced the very publicly known consequences of it.
Not the smuggler’s fault often; many are doing this unaware. For example, driving a vehicle for work without knowing your coworker is a smuggler.
But, even IF every single one was 100% guilty (even though this is not the case), it’s murder.
Many are totally innocent. It doesn’t matter to you.
Trying to compare it to police planting evidence is a fucking insult to actual victims.
Wrong. Imprisoning and murdering people over plants is a fucking insult to all humanity
But I’m the smug one. Yeah, sure buddy.
You’re revolting to me, pal. You are defending murder.
Because they will never let him in in the first place. Vast majority of countries don’t take in immigrants.
Challenging to criticize Singapore if you’re from somewhere with monthly massacres of school children.
Two things can both be bad.
Impossible
the monthly massacres aren’t government policy. executing a cannabis trafficker is.
aren’t government policy
That could be debated. They’re certainly at least the standard they walk past and accept.
if you’re putting officially written and sanctioned government executions in writing up against the unofficial unsanctioned killings not in writing, I’d be more scared of what the government has written down in policy as there is no possible alternative.
As an outsider, it makes no difference to me. They’re a rabid dog that would turn in the hand as much as they are cold blooded murderers who’ll legislate it in.
Given how willing they are to use it or legislate it on their own citizens, the rest of us are under no illusion about how they’d treat us.
That makes a ton of difference to the dead schoolkids.
the article doesn’t say anything about the schoolkids POV on the dead traffickers or maybe you should just stay on topic
This is probably a shock for you to learn, but on a public forum it’s possible to draw conclusions from any source and not just repeat the OPs post.
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not really relevant to the topic at hand.
Good news! Lemme just go to the parents and tell them!
I don’t see what schoolkids parents has to do with a government sanctioned execution of a cannabis trafficker.
There is an active policy of not preventing cold massacres. Hope that clarifies the point.
… and Singapore has an active policy of condoning and committing murder. That’s bad.
I pray that clears things up for you.
Oh dear
There is no written policy at the national level that you speak of that I’m aware of. -As for unofficial, unwritten policy then that varies from one municipality to the next as well as from one state to another. Is the Singaporean policy of executing cannabis traffickers not a national policy carried out uniformly across the country?
There is no official “active policy” at the national level that I’m aware of. -As for unofficial policy, that varies from one municipality to the next, and from one state to the next. Is the Singaporean policy of executing cannabis traffickers not an official national policy carried out uniformly across the country?
Deaths arising from acts of omission can be prosecuted. Doesn’t work with Government given the Amendment arguments.
Not everyone on the internet lives in the US
My comment was too subtle?
Not at all. Murder is murder regardless of the country.
How could you possibly think that is challenging? Of course it should be criticized.
I’m not in any way, shape or form defending the policy of Singapore, but… given that they do have a death penalty for this, why the hell did he carry 1 kg into the country? I’ve been to Singapore and I was afraid to even let go of my bags for a second, for fear that someone would plant something on me.
People must sign a paper on the plane acknowledging that import drugs carries the death penalty, even before landing.
The result shouldn’t be surprising for anyone.
Interesting, is it possible to receive that paper, and surrender yourself immediately and basically say “I’m sorry I don’t want to do this anymore here take it please don’t kill me”?
what a shithole
Is that a mirror or a microphone?
It’s a statement. It means Singapore is unpleasant.
No matter how you spin it thats barbaric
I feel like if you’re going to have Draconian laws such as this, you should have to be able to prove that the criminal knew the consequences of their actions before doing so. If not, they should be given a non-death sentence with an explicit warning on the record that next time it will be a death sentence.
My mom is from Singapore and I’ve visited many times.
I don’t agree with their drug laws (or capital punishment in general), but there are dozens of warnings throughout the airport and on the passport control paperwork (in bold red letters) that you have to ignore to get to this point. They make it as clear as possible that importing drugs is a capital offense.
Singapore is notorious for having extreme penalties for relatively minor crimes
“Eating a meal? A succulent Chinese meal?!”
Sound of firing squad loading rifles
“This is democracy manifest!”
firing squad fires
