I support spreading this message, and fuck Google, but…what’s actually happening is they are making harder to install apps, not removing the ability to do so.
After massive pushback. Their original plan was basically full control. It still is, but they’ll allow you to install something if you ask nicely first.
The other issue is the timing. They can claim this is for security all they want, but it was announced suspiciously close to the courts ruling that Google needed to open up their ecosystem to other app stores. This is a blatant attempt to keep control of the app ecosystem by forcing devs to go through Google regardless of where they intend to release.
Their original plan was basically full control
I’m not happy with the change, but let’s at least get the facts straight, so we can argue our position better. Their original plan included a way to install apps from unknown sources, but it did not describe how that would work.
I’m honestly neutral with the change, it makes setting up a new phone a little more annoying, it will just be another step in the process and doesn’t stop me from doing anything. However the small barrier will stop scammers pressuring people into installing things. It doesn’t make it impossible, but will get rid of a lot of the low hanging fruit.
When would a scammer make you download an app? They could just as (more) easily make you visit a website…
It’s wrong to think this will stop scammers or malware.
And where you drew the line? These things tend to move in one direction. so giving an inch may as well be giving a mile.
Of course it did.
For two reasons.
First - if anyone complains they can always say there exists a bypass, no matter how idiotically unworkable and annoying the process might be.
Another aspect is that devs will probably want to test their apps easily and quickly - App stores are notorious for updates taking a few days to be approved. Even for Google, full-on lockdown might seem overkill. They don’t want to bother with speeding up their update approval process so devs can push test builds through the Ecosystem. Giving some route towards sideloading is a much saner solution.
They can claim this is for security all they want, but it was announced suspiciously close to the courts ruling that Google needed to open up their ecosystem to other app stores.
The courts ruled that users need to be able to install competing app stores without any warning, which is different from how it works today. Obviously allowing installation without any warning would be a boon to malware authors, so they added a way for third party app developers (including app store app developers) to verify themselves and distribute apps outside the Play Store without a warning on installation. Now Epic can verify with Google and distribute its app on its own website without needing to tell the user how to dismiss a scary warning, and the same is true for Safeway and Proton and other developers that might want to self distribute. On top of that, now GrapheneOS can implement its own verification system using the same OS-level APIs. Maybe app authors can distribute apps themselves for users of GrapheneOS by registering their repo with a verification system that runs an automated security audit on the repo and ensures reproducible builds.
Now that there is a way to distribute apps safely outside the system app store, that probably prompted them to look at what was causing malware problems with the current unverified app installation flow, and they came up with that system. Saying it’s some massive conspiracy won’t force them to change their minds, especially since there aren’t enough users who care to make a dent in their revenue. Proposing a less onerous way to stop malware and bringing that in front of a judge on behalf of the app developers who are harmed will.
Google is “only” locking you out of using your phone for 24 hours…
For extra security, let’s make it a week. Let’s make it a month. Let’s make it a year.
Ok? Its still my phone, my hardware, and now I have to wait 24 hours before I can install wahtever I want on the phone that I goddamn paid for with my own goddamn money.
Also, let’s not pretend as if they not eventually going to go back to their original plan once the initial backlash dies down and people get used to the new norm.
That’s what they’re doing *so far. * I very strongly doubt this is the last time the deal is altered.
For everyone unaware, enabling developer options already makes your OS less secure, so Google is requiring you to make yourself more vulnerable just to have the right to install any software, not just those allowed by Google. This has been among others confirmed by GrapheneOS themselves:
Thank you, ''preciate the links
Doesn’t the new process require the use of Google Play Services?
Removing it would thus render a device unable to install apps at all.
This is supposed to be a simplified message for tech illiterate people. While it may not be fully accurate, the alternative is something that <= 5% of the population will understand.
Additionally, as others have pointed out, this is how the change was originally planned. It was only adjusted due to massive backlash. Apparently the current backlash is not enough for Google to adjust it further.
A change I still wholly reject. Everyone should reject this change. No compromises.
But I want to be angry!
This was their solution to the massive backlash after they announced removing it altogether. We’re still worse off, and we already know their intentions. They’ll revisit the attempt later on. You feel for their ratchet effect. Stop applauding
Who’s applauding? I’m not rooting for Google, but if you buy a stock Android device with the idea that Google is looking out for you, you’re an idiot. They have shown time and again that they are evil, but you buy a device and think, “Android is for digital outlaws, like me.” you’re delusional.
I use Android because the phones are dirt cheap. Most of these sort of phones are sold either at cost or at a loss, so it’s hard to complain.
And more correctly, harder to install apps the first time but easier than it is now to install apps in the future because that setting will now be copied to new phones instead of having to go through the flow again each time.
Really glad I decided to switch to GrapheneOS. My next phone will be a Motorola for sure.
motorola makes great phone. I remember my 1st Android phone, after years on iOS, was the Moto Z Play. That thing can last a week with light usage, or 3 days with medium usage on a single charge. Also remember those moto mods? Motorola had like speaker mod and even a mini projector that you can just snap on the phone.
They made better phones before Google bought them so they could strip all their patents before dumping the remaining husk on Lenovo for 15% of its previous value.
So what do we do when they start making it harder and harder to install graphene?
Getting a motorola cause they explicitly will be supporting GrapheneOS.
But all of that is just a stepping stone. As soon as I deem linux phones to be usable as a daily driver for me, I won’t look back.
We still don’t know anything about the phones’ specifications, prices.
Ironic that graphene is developed most for pixel phones
Not really. They develop for Pixel because those devices have the most secure hardware available for developing a modified Android OS.
If the rest-of-the-world can get its head out of its ass, a fork of AOSP with an open governance and a commitment to opensource and open platform, so that every one benefits from it. You wouldn’t need that much from each country to get more resources on that AOSP-bis than Google will ever be able to pour on its homebrew version.
You make a rule that public service can only buy devices using AOSP-bis based systems (or even better: states choose their own AOSP distros) and quickly, Google has no choice but to follow your version, not the other way around.
You make a rule that public service can only buy devices using AOSP-bis based systems (or even better: states choose their own AOSP distros)
don’t give Google the monopoly
better: “You make a rule that public service can only buy devices using libre systems”
If you fork, by definition, they no longer have the monopoly. The fork does not even have to follow Google’s updates.
Yes. But still, it should be “libre systems” rather than “AOSP systems”.
I would be so happy if the phone they release with graphene is the Razr, honestly might start work on it myself.
On top of that, Samsung is ending its SMS and suggesting Google messenger as an alternative. I am not looking to train a chatGPT with my private text messages
Samsung tried its own implementation of RCS, but Google in their monopolistic shittery straight up blocked out any implementations that aren’t literally themselves, open protocol farce
Please consider donating to PostmarketOS to build up a pure mobile Linux alternative that is completely free of Google’s influence. It’s the best option we have.
The fucked up thing with phones is the locked boot loaders. Locked boot loaders should not exist because this seriously restricts the driver and OS development.
I am as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!
I am so endlessly angry at this, I actually switched banks because my old bank’s app didn’t work on a degoogled phone.
This is the kind of action we need to take. Im proud of you for making the change. Taking the time. Making the effort to say nope fuck you and fuck that.
Yeah what this guy said
Out of curiosity, what bank? If you don’t mind answering. I’m heavily thinking about Graphine but it didn’t occur to me that it would break compatibility with non-Google apps.
I’ll do you one better: here is an article on banking apps worldwide that work with GrapheneOS. Someone posted it on Piefed a short while back:
https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/
My latest phone is a Fairphone 6 with e/OS preinstalled, so it came degoogled and easily repairable out of the box. I intend to keep it for at least a decade. I cant imagine a feature I would be willing to upgrade for, so I’ll probably keep it longer than that.
the minute fair phone releases board schematics for the 6 I’ll buy one. they did it with the 5, id love for them to do it with the 6.
I wish i could trust the fairphone in the US but I think it only supports t mobile…I travel a lot and need solid connection in case I need lyft to work or something. And airline apps…
it was never your phone to begin with.
OUR phone
Hoping that Graphene Motorola partnership ends up making Graphene some really well supported target for bank/finance apps for those that make that a part of their required features for a phone. I can live with Firefox. Many seemingly can’t
Bring back RAZR days! I had so many razrs. Iove them
Gross they are acting like USA.
It is Google, one of the pillars of evil in the USA.
Thats great and all, but completely non-actionable.
Tell me instead - what exactly should I do?
(should have mentioned that I already have a pinephone and grapheneOS on a GOOGLE pixel)
Install GrapheneOS on a used Pixel or an upcoming Moto.
Or e/os on its supported devices
Move. Currently get a phone compatible with Lineage/GrapheneOS (second hand pixel, coz fuck Google). Soonish, Linux phone.
The Linux phone is like Iranian nukes… always just right around the corner.
Sad but true, or fusion, or AGI. Still volla is selling even if not really open source, and pressure is building.
i think a solution would either cone through court or law
Does this remove apps already installled on my device?
Only if play protect thinks it’s a virus
Fine, ill go back to dumb phone era. 3310 here i come old buddy.
My tech brothers, how easy is it to install graphene on my pixel 7? Will my banking app (Barclays, UK) still work? Tia
Its so easy with their web installer, takes like 5 minutes. If you go to their website they have a list of bank apps that work. Mine does and no issues. Ive been using Graphene for a couple years and can never go back.
The only thing I’d like to note is, their guide says to use a high quality USB quality. Most times I’ve seen that, it’s been completely irrelevant. With the Graphene installation, the only hard part of the process was finding the USB cable that came with my phone. Once I did, all other obstacles disappeared.
I have always used a regular usb cable, just make sure its in good condition with no shorts in it.
Barclays: This app only runs in the owner profile and secure app spawning may have to be disabled
https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/
The installation is super easy - barely an inconvinience. However you need to set up everything on your phone manually - no easy transfer from stock Android afaik.
super easy - barely an inconvinience
I understood that reference!
And agreed, installation is super simple, just a good quality USB-C data cable (the one that comes with the Pixel works great) and a Chromium-based browser. As for post-installation, yeah it can be a pain but you’d be surprised how much crap from your old phone you don’t actually need. Going GrapheneOS is a good way to go minimalist if you want to.
sign up to a 3rd party password manager on your original device so you will have them available there too
I am very happy with Dashlane for two years now. Glad to pay for the service.
It should. My banking apps worked fine. None of them work on a rooted phone but worked absolutely fine on Graphene.
I thought you had to root the phone to install graphene?
IIRC, no. You unlock the bootloader to install, re-lock, and enjoy your phone.
You have to unlock the bootloader, Grapheneos doesn’t support root on the official builds.
Super easy to install. I don’t use any banking app on my phone so can’t comment on that.
Not sure for that specific app, but I used 4 banking apps without problems. Google wallet does not work so I had to switch to Curve for NFC payments.
I saw Curve being promoted as a replacement. Problem is as they act as a middle man you lose the credit protections normally afforded by your credit card which made me pause again.
I did that for my old pixel 7 so my daughter had something to play on. Works great.
If you have location and mobile data on they’re generally less likely to fuss if you do ever have an issue.
super easy and i never had a app not work instantly including bank stuff
