Can we be honest here? They are to the right of Regan right fucking now
Regan, man some of them are to the right of the Reich.
Actually the centrists are right-wing. Social Democrats are centrist compared to mainstream Europe, but even EU nations have drifted rightward thanks to neoliberalism.
Capitalism ruins everything.
No war but class war.
What I find frustrating about American centrists is that they don’t even realise they are centre right-- thanks to the weird corporate media indoctrination keeping the Overton window on the capitalist framework. They can be socially progressive but economically right. They look down on the working class by refusing to acknowledge the effects of offshoring and deindustrialisation on the latter. If you ask American centrists if they favour building affordable housing, you get cricket noises.
American centrists are maybe socially progressive, but they think social justice is separate from economic justice.
“Everything should be private, the State should not Regulate that which Money cares about in any way form or shape and Genocidal Fascism is fine as long as it’s abroad” isn’t center-right, it’s hard right, possibly Facism-adjacent.
Oh the right only talk about affordable housing only when it’s to gain votes from a right person who can’t afford a house
That is the ONLY time it’s even discussed.after that : never happened.
People in the comments like > I’m an anarcho-liberal socialist-libertarian-progressive
Stop it! There are only two political genders: left and right. That is how god made us!
Me trying to figure out if OP means true left or Tankie bullshit before commenting:
I see a lot of people on Lemmy recently claiming to be left but also trying to tell me how democracies are bad. -_-
Are they literally saying “democracy is bad” or are they saying American “democracy” isn’t worth preserving?
I see a lot of people on Lemmy recently claiming to be left but also trying to tell me how democracies are bad. -_-
Probably the case, although it’s important not to dismiss people for criticizing liberal democracy - the system that has repeatedly put us in the mess we’re in now. There are plenty of issues which are wildly popular regardless of political alignment but which liberal democracy fails to deliver, so to consider it a democracy at all, simply because most people get voting rights to pick representatives, is very debatable.
There are plenty of other forms of democracy, many which have been successfully run in communities of hundreds of thousands of people (consider Zapatistas, Cheran, and more).
Democracies exists?
They do
My country of Australia isn’t perfect, but it’s pretty good
My birth country of New Zealand has MMP, which is a great system
Wrong metrics are used to make it look like Australia is a strong democracy. Suppression of anti establishement protests, strong lobbies, lack of political accountqbility are serious anti democratic metrics.
The more I think about democracies the more I realise they’re flawed by design. Asking people for vote as now synonymous with essentially marketing. Most people are unable to understand when they’re being marketed to.
A benevolent dictator would be sooo much better, but then even by miracle you get a benevelont one, chances of the next one being benevelont are shit.
So I don’t know what the solution is. But we sticked to the flawed solution for now.
Athenian democracies solve a lot of our current issues. It’s a bit like jury duty. You put your own name down and can be picked for roles in government.
France did that after the yellow vest protests. They randomly picked 100 citizens to lead a citizens Senate to propose solutions, and Macron promised to implement their suggestions (he lied. Only partial implementation happened)
One of the emergent properties to picking 100 random citizens is you get close to a random sample of society. Rich and poor, left and right all with different perspectives and life experiences. They all have to argue their perspective and back it up with evidence for it to function properly.
They also can’t be bought out the same way as entrenched parties. The candidates are random. Nobody knows until the results are announced.
It also results in a much stronger sense of civic duty for the average citizen when you participate in the civic process regularly like this.
This video does a far better job than I can making the case for them
The idea is nice, except that if you allow the rich to participate, they will just buy their way. As was the case with every non-socialist political system in history.
Athenian democracies solve a lot of our current issues. It’s a bit like jury duty. You put your own name down and can be picked for roles in government.
Democracies need a system to set long term goals and kick out any politicians violating the goals.
This is the catch that the greek philosophers warned about. Democracies are vulnerable to manipulation, demagoguery, and shortsightedness. A functional democracy requires maintaining a high level of societal quality, education, ethics, stability, and aggressively restricting consolidation of wealth and power. The US failed to do any of these things, and has descended into neofeudalism, where the govern_ed_ no longer have any influence over their govern_ment_.
The US didn’t fail to do those things, it never had any intention of even trying to do those things. This is because the people in power fundamentally do not want actual democracy. They want a system where those with wealth are able to dictate the rules. And funnily enough, the system they created is perfectly designed to allow them to do so.
If the people actually want political democracy, then they need to democratize the economy first. No more private ownership of the means of production, no more rampant inequality, no more capitalism.
I think it will be a lot better if we could punish liars. If the population had access to trustworthy information and an accessible way to vote, we could have a true democracy.
The question is, who is allowed to point out that RFK is a mass murdering liar, without opening the way for someone to declare that Sanders is a liar. Would a board of doctors, however big, have the authority to demote and lock up RFK? Do they file a complaint to a higher court that the Supreme Court will throw away? You’d have to revamp a lot of shit like not having the top court in the country be nominated by the president and such.
I mean how you determine objective truth would be tricky, and then would someone count as a liar if they were misinformed themselves, or if they’re talking about potential from a gamble and lose. Its never actually going to happen, I just wish we could.
I see a lot of people on Lemmy recently claiming to be left but also trying to tell me how democracies are bad. -_-
Anarchists argue against democracy for their own separate reasons. I am only beginning to grasp the nuance, but there is a distinction.
I suggest engaging an anarchist/somebody versed on the topic to learn more, or read up here on the fediverse
or shudders on Reddit.EDIT: Actually, don’t go there.I see a lot of “leftists” in Lemmy trying to tell me how capitalism is totally a democracy despite systematically ignoring the wishes of the vast majority and only de facto governing for the ruling class
I’m a libertarian commie myself (not a tankie). The overton window has shifted so far to the right that people are fully convinced that socdems are leftist. Socdems are like the bare friggin’ minimum and it’s crazy how many people don’t realise that.
Libertarian communism? Does that mean every business is a CO-OP?
How would you prevent the state from favoring one CO-OP over the other and creating a co-op monopoly by favoritism?
Sorry, not trying to attack you. I’m a radical leftist and libertarian communism is sort of the most Lemmy thing I’ve ever heard.
Workers control everything, basically. It’s hard to put all into one comment, but it’s a bit like anarchism. Considering that I’m fairly new to Lemmy, I take that as a compliment. Plus, private property isn’t a thing under this system.
Plus, private property isn’t a thing under this system.
Well, you had my curiosity, but now you have my attention.
Another fun fact is that China cannot be truly considered communist. It’s socialist, but not communist. It has similarities to communism, though. Considering some of the people working under harsh conditions for money, it cannot be considered communist.
China doesn’t claim to be communist, “yet”.
China … [is] socialist
No it isn’t, Socialism “with Chinese Characteristics” is doing some extremely heavy lifting.
It’s a capitalist state, pretty evidently. The government having state run companies doesn’t negate this. Further, those state run companies are not beholden to their workers, nor the people at large.
Without worker control, that’s not socialism.
Workers unions are functionally illegal (the state run one, most certainly does not count as it doesn’t authorise strikes in almost all circumstances, as far as I’m aware).
Look up China Tobacco, a great example of how just having industries nationalised, doesn’t make something socialist.
China is just as bad as the rest of the capitalist nations, they’re just bad in their own unique ways.
All the cool comrades know that “socialism” in the mould of Stalinist USSR or China isn’t a great model.
Inb4 USA is worse! - nah, they’re both capitalist states. I’m not a “China Bad” believer, much of what we hear in mainstream western media is overblown or inaccurate to manufacture consent for a conflict between us.
The ruling class in all countries simply use the rest of us for their own gain.
True, that’s what’s so infuriating about the term “woke”. Woke is just common-sense empathy, like what used to be the norm in the past. I haven’t changed, it’s y’all that have become fascists.
Left libertarian we generally call Anarchist.
Yeah, I was a Libertarian myself until the early 2000’s. Not anymore though.
Their anything goes gun stance became, to me, a red line after school shootings became a daily thing in the US. Watching them parade RFK and Donald at their convention in 2024 demonstrated that maybe their principles aren’t exactly as strong as they say they are.
But we’d be better off Johnson had been elected. 100%. Too bad people cared more about Syria than whether or not Americans can eat.
Libertarian commie =/= libertarian
They’re a different kind of weird. lol
Must be. We’re getting way too deep into the identitarian weeds for me. :)
I just say anarcho-communist to make it more obviously different
DENNIS: I told you. We’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
ARTHUR: Yes.
DENNIS: But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting.
ARTHUR: Yes, I see.
DENNIS: By a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs–
ARTHUR: Be quiet!
DENNIS: –but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more–
ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
I mean, unironically a decent framework to start with. Arthur cant handle it because as a monarch it is chaos to him
Oh ok so you’re an illiterate dumbass
Buddy youve gotta realize by now that the LP is just a way for the rich to funnel more wealth
People thought academics were socialists during the Vietnam War too
This is nothing new
how radicalized is globalizing the intefada?
very? not much? medium-rare?
It’s fairly radical why do you ask
Who radicalized you?
I’m always thinking about pizza, dude 😎
Also a big turtles fan from the 90 here 😊👌(watch out… as next turtles radicalized us)
The first Time i was putted from others in the right Wing was from the Media, the Politicans from my own Country and therefore also from normal People. Never before i was in that right Corner and i was wondering myselfe how i get there an how it feels here… It was interesting that people don’t want to talk with you about the Topic what get me there.
And why i was there? In Austria, Politicans want to Compulsory vaccination the Puplic but stopped it after 2 Days they releasing it to public
Before everybody against it and didn’t belive them blind was a Neonazi…
So what you want to tell me with this stupid Picture? I learned you can find yourselfe very fast in a Position you never think about before… Also you can as Raggae listening, all People are same, all ppl have the same rights Guy and nobody is illegal on this World, however you are a men, woman or anything you want to be, was puttet in a right Light.
f… you all with this Brainwashing Bullshit and listen more from these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwSRqaZGsPw
The left lost me a while ago, i selfe never see me as right… I just have my own Mind
SocDem finally admits they were just a lib the whole time
What radicalized me? Basic empathy.
“I pledge allegiance to the flag … with liberty and justice for all” Like everyday we had to say that and now they expect us to ignore it.
Pledge of allegiance is totally not brainwashing at all. Nope. Not at all whistles
I have been radicalized by ::gestures_widely::.
just existing while not being white and male is considered radicalized by them
Or CisHet.
Is wanting to guillotine the Epstein class radical? I think it’s the logical solution that presents itself when you look at the state of things.
Typa shit someone says before shouting about how Stalin didn’t send enough people to the Gulags
You neoliberals really do think anyone to the left of Ronald Reagan is a tankie don’t you?
I’m an anarchist
you have to to convince yourself that this is the best we can do for humanity
Are you aware that that’s said as a joke? The joke is “I don’t know how many people were sent to the gulag, but looking at how things are, it was clearly not enough”.
Oh, hey! I’m a democratic socialist. Cool.
Is this meme not backwards?
Wouldn’t he stop thinking right wing guy was radical if he’s moved that close to him?
I think maybe the socdem is whispering in the Democrat’s ear in the last frame.
Why would the socdem be to the right of the Dem? This meme just sucks.
/shrug
