After running away from her first marriage (she was married at 13). She finally got a divorce and then was told to marry her cousin who was literally coming out of prison.
How can someone care so little for their own kids. Absolutely vile.
For the same reason that American Christians would beat a gay person to death and then argue the gay panic defense in court.
They’ve been raised to believe that these made-up rules for their imaginary friend are a more important consideration than the reality right in front of them.
I would still feel sad that I had to kill my daughter to uphold those rules… Not fucking dance in the street. Unless it’s also in the rules: “and you’ll like it”. 🤪
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Nope. Thats just religious extremism for ya.
For example 36 white American Christians in Oklahoma just voted against ending child marriage and they quoted the Bible as their reason
"Rep. Derrick Hildebrant quoted Hebrews 13:4, questioning “Hebrews 13:4 – ‘Let marriage be held in honour among all.’ Does ‘among all’ now only mean those who are 18 and older?”
And here’s another white Christian proposing a bill to give the death penalty to woman who seek abortions. He serves on the board of a church in north carolina.
“The legislation, backed only by Republican state Representative Keith Kidwell, would classify abortion as first-degree murder and open the right of another person to defend the life of the unborn baby** as they see fit.**”
https://www.newsweek.com/republican-bill-deadly-force-stop-abortions-north-carolina-12005136
“Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”
You do realize that “Christianity bad” doesn’t mean that “Islam bad” is false, right?
Both can be true at once.
I will however dispute that it is a question of extremism. The fact is that a majority of muslims, globally, hold views that I would consider to be misogynistic (feel free to update me on that if there is a more recent global study with the same scope).
If something is the norm in a group rather than a fringe idea, it can hardly be considered extremism. Given that Islam has many of these misogynistic values close to its’ core, it isn’t particularly shocking either.
As such, considering the above, I consider Islam to be bad on the whole. Note: this doesn’t mean that someone is inherently “bad” due to being muslim, or that “good” muslims don’t exist - I am acquainted with a few.
Christianity is barbaric, cruel and hateful
Judaism is cruel, barbaric and hateful
Islam is barbaric and hateful and cruel
They’re all fucked
What’s happening in the middle east would be happening regardless of their superstition. It’s a region that has always been unstable, and WWI & II resulted in the west trying to drag them into their sphere of influence to take the oil
But I’d like to see the people who did this burn slowly, as well as anyone in the world who thinks it’s ok
Yeah and they’re all pretty much the same religion they worship the same god of abraham and each version inherits older versions books, Christians revere moses and Muslims also revere jesus. Im not sure there’s much they actually disagree on besides various rules on eating meat.
Misogyny doesn’t automatically mean ritualistic murder, dude.
And yet in the long run doesn’t it?
Keith Kidwell
Jesus Christ, the writers are getting lazy…
No, that’s people brainwashed by ideology “for ya”. You don’t seem to have the mental capacity to process that, so just try to talk to people you disagree with more, and widen your horizon.
Religion is an ideology that brainwashes.
No, that’s people brainwashed by ideology
What do you think islam is?
How does this describe Islam specifically and not any religious group with fundamentalists?
Don’t feed the trolls
More of a question for the two dozen or so people upvoting the comments. Even if they’re trolling (and not just an islamophobe), there’s clearly a fair number of people that think these are reasonable opinions to hold. Getting people to think about the beliefs they hold is an important part of reducing -phobic behavior in general.
You’re right!
I’ll happily condemn any ideology (not just religious ones) that teaches people it is okay to force underage girls into marriage and murder them when they try to escape.
Did you have one in mind?
Were you aware that child marriage is legal in most of the US and attempts to close state level loopholes are fought tooth and nail, often successfully, by Evangelicals? The form of child rape we’re more familiar with isn’t better than people halfway across the world doing the same thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage_in_the_United_States
Yes, I was.
Disconnecting religion from law & institutions was a brutal process that took centuries here in Europe, and it is very disconcerting to see organized religion exerting an increasing influence in society. In the US it is less “freedom from religion” (like we have here) and more “freedom of religion” (please pick one).
As I said, you don’t have the mental capacity to process what’s wrong with your comment. Try to evolve a bit.
Stop being in denial, it’s all over most holy books, and especially the one that condoned this specific murder.
It’s a good thing we’ve got you here to tell people they’re stupid and should evolve.
But you didn’t say that. You said “No” it wasn’t islam, then you described islam.
You’ll understand one day instead of whatever this is you’re doing here.
No, that’s people brainwashed by ideology “for ya”.
That’s just a long way of saying “islam”
That’s extreme ideology for ya.
If this passes I hope politicians that restrict pregnant women’s access to food, shelter, and medicine have their affairs in order.
That’s brainwashing for ya*
~25% of all humans are Muslim, do you seriously think every single one agrees with this?
A good example is that only a tiny part of Christians are pedophiles but you, based on the logic in your comment, think all of them are.
Islam isn’t the issue, extremism and shitty humans is. The vast majority of Muslims think this is just as fucked up as we do, because the vast majority of humans are just like us.
The headline is misleading. The article is even worse.
The girl was not killed for refusing to marry. The girl ran away from home over the marriage (the strategy had worked for her to get out of her first marriage, at age 13). She was caught by a neighbor who did something bad to her (she did not want to say what and her family did not want to hear it). When her family found her 3 days later, they killed her for hiding at the neighbor’s house (despite the fact that she was taken there unwillingly).
All of this is in the article. I don’t understand why you have 40 people agreeing with you.
Why wouldn’t people up vote? The original comment said the main article was worse than the headline, and summarised why they thought so. What are you objecting to?
The…wrongness…The article is not even worse. The article says exactly what he claims it doesn’t. And regardless, the point is that she was ultimately killed because she tried to escape. The family’s justification is worthless, and irrelevant.
Worse as in the actions described are even more vile, not inaccurate.
The headline is misleading. The article is even worse
Those two sentences together cannot possibly be referring to the actions.
Can’t tap just scroll
That’s the amount of control over women that American conservatives dream of.
Women in Iraq have been treated like absolute dirt and their literacy rates have plumeted from 99% under Saddam to around 50% last time I checked.
The breakdown of law and order is a direct result of American and Israeli interference and overthrow of Saddam after a decade of sanctions in the 90s.
Israel has been trying to crush Iraq for much longer and wanted it to be a failed state since the 1970s. Prior to Saddam even. This is the fate they want for all Arab countries.
I was curious and looked up adult women literacy rates for women in Iraq and this shows 64% literacy rate for women with 15+ years age in 2000 and 78% in 2021 for the same category. For female youths aged 15-24 it rose from 80% to 91% over the same time period (though in the intervening period that did indeed drop to 72-73% in their stats during the chaos of the Iraq War).
It’s great when people bring the receipts and take the time to source a comment. Seriously, thank you.
and this shows 64% literacy rate for women with 15+ years age in 2000 and 78% in 2021 for the same category
It’s a very thin data set. One entry for 2000. Nothing beforehand. Then nothing for 12 years that just happen to occur during the height of invasion and mass displacement of the population.
Wikipedia would suggest the literacy rate was high prior to 2000. After the invasion, there’s very mixed data, with high enrollment rates conbined with high dropout and grade repeat rates. But it’s an article plagued with dead links, so…
I don’t think it’s controversial to say the war and mass displacement resulted in declining standards for education.
It’s a very thin data set. One entry for 2000. Nothing beforehand. Then nothing for 12 years that just happen to occur during the height of invasion and mass displacement of the population.
I’m happy to see any data you have, that’s why I looked because 99% seemed incredibly high and the drop to 50% horrible and I wanted to check out that data. I agree this is sparse though it does ultimately come from UNESCO. There is a point on the 15-24 year old female youth graph for 2006 which is in the middle of that and another on 2011, which were the 72-73% I acknowledged. A decline of 8% for the youth until it started recovering in 2012 onward is what this particular source gives.
Wikipedia would suggest the literacy rate was high prior to 2000. After the invasion, there’s very mixed data, with high enrollment rates conbined with high dropout and grade repeat rates. But it’s an article plagued with dead links, so…
Where that Wikipedia article says “literacy levels were high” you can see that it also links to links to World Bank Open Data - the same source I used - except unsuccessfully. I would disagree that it was high based on World Bank Open Data though. If you look up global 15+ year old women’s literacy rates, the global average in 2000 was 76% so 64% in Iraq looks kind of bad comparatively.
I don’t think it’s controversial to say the war and mass displacement resulted in declining standards for education
I agree and that matches up with the drop in literacy rates for young women (whose ongoing education you would expect to be more affected by war in eight years of their childhood than for the adults). I was commenting just with respect to the stats because I was surprised.
Either way the war fucked up Iraq in ways that will take generations to fix.
I needed to look them up.
No they only want Palestine bro. Just one more bro.
That is horrific.
As an Iraqi, I feel like I need to address some extremely serious inaccuracies in the article:
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The Nine year-old marriage thing: This lasted less than a month and was cancelled due to the sheer amount of protest against it. I know, that’s still unbelieavable how it even reached Iraq in the first place. But this case happened far after the law was cancelled and is illegal, the family’s lewd business might have been a reason(?) Although sadly women’s rights are still limited.
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The case is even worse than the article interprets it: The man did not hide her in dirt, he literally dumped her in mud in the middle of a garbage place. And the police only arrested him after the evidence was very undeniable (They were allegedly bribed).
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The underage marriage and woman’s rights dismissing protest: This was a very small protest and many protestors there got their fair share of violence.
NOTE: I live in Baghdad, other cities might have different laws, but this article mentioned the incident was in Baghdad too, so maybe it was either not very recent, or maybe that lewd law got re-implemented and I just don’t know it yet.
thank you for adding context from a local,. one of the great things about this place
Thank you so much! I honestly expected to be in the negative score with people not believing me, but wow…
Maybe Lemmy is less harsh than Reddit afterall.
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The YPJ needs to be everywhere
I had not heard of the YPJ before. Remarkable group!
…minus the child soldiers part.
Tbf the labeling of child soldiers is kinda misleading considering that the vast majority of them are 15-17 years old. At that age you can join most military organizations around the world with parental permission. Alternatively most countries have military schools, where active duty military personnel are training teens to become soldiers.
That doesnt make it better for me so much as pointing out how bad others are as well.
But I also think 18 is too young for war too, so there’s that.
I’d also note - vast majority <> all.
That doesnt make it better for me so much as pointing out how bad others are as well.
My main point was that there is a discrepancy about how we speak about or label the actions of certain cultures or groups of people as opposed to the same actions taken by westerner nations.
I’d also note - vast majority <> all.
There are younger recruits, but I believe they are more a kin to being in military school, being taught tactics and self defense. I believe the official age for combat roles is 18.
Yeah, and I’m saying that doesnt make it better for me. Not for them, not for others.
I think its shitty having anyone with ‘teen’ in their age going off to fight or prepping for it.
Yeah, and I’m saying that doesnt make it better for me. Not for them, not for others.
My response wasn’t aimed at making you feel better. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of a specific criticism often aimed at the ypj when several western powers do the same thing.
think its shitty having anyone with ‘teen’ in their age going off to fight or prepping for it.
Yes, war is obviously bad.
I sort of feel like if you choose to dance to celebrate the death of your innocent teenage relative, then you, along with whatever culture spawned you, don’t really deserve to exist.
Yeah it’s easy to think that but I’d be wary of embracing that level of extremism. Colonial powers used similar arguments to justify the extermination of peoples around the world for centuries ie. “the civilizing mission”. Your framing is also indistinguishable from core frameworks within facism.
I agree with your anger but not with your worldview. People and cultures adapt over time, and I’d sooner do what I can to influence change in a culture for the better, before questioning whether one “deserves” human rights. But… that’s just my culture. Let’s hope it deserves to exist 🤞.
Your framing is also indistinguishable from core frameworks within facism.
In what ways, specifically?
The framing of whether a culture “deserves” to exist was a justification to pursue the extermination of Jewish and Roma people in fascist Germany, as one example. From that and other similar acts of destruction in the name of cleansing or purity came a new world order with the concept of inalienable human rights.
When you speak on the erasure of a culture, which is often an abstract set of ideas around which clear boundaries can rarely be drawn, you justify a collective punishment that is antithetical to this foundational idea.
Individuals should be held accountable for their actions according to the rule of law.
Saying that a culture doesn’t deserve to exist undermines the idea of inalienable human rights, normalizes ethnic cleansing and ultimately takes us back to a much darker period of human history.
I may not have lived through world war 2, but I am not keen on unlearning the lessons that were learned from it.
I can see why you said “framing” and “frameworks”, because that sort of vague criteria is really where any similarities end, but you went too far by saying that it’s “indistinguishable”.
I was talking about not just murder of a completely innocent child of their own blood, but of an entire clan’s celebration of the event by dancing. It’s the culture that birthed that reaction that is at fault. And all of those people dancing in the streets enabled that murder. There is no chance that the murderer didn’t know they’d get such a positive reaction.
The culture is wrong. It doesn’t deserve to exist. If they want to change their culture to get rid of the murder of and the celebrating of the murder of innocent children, then the previous culture which condoned those murders will have ceased to exist.
Just because fascists criticize cultures with harsh language doesn’t mean that any criticism of a culture using similar language needs to be shot down as having similarity to fascism. You can actually look at the specific allegations.
Ok let’s be precise with our language. What culture are you referring to? Do you have a name for it?
It simply is indistinguishable from fascism because ultimately the fascists decided which cultures were problematic, who was a part of them and therefore who “deserved” to be exterminated.
Your criticism alone isn’t what likens your view to fascism, its the language you chose, which implies a disregard for inalienable human rights that does.
Do you, the one who apparently decides which cultures are worthy and which are not, get to decide how a culture is defined and who is a part of it?
Who is a part of it in this case? Who would you like to erase? People that look like them, speak like them, worship like them?
We punish individuals for their actions according to the rule of law.
You may want to go back to a time when we judge individuals based on the actions of those we perceive to be similar to them. I do not.
I don’t know which culture youve come from to arrive at this worldview, but as problematic and regressive as it is, I still acknowledge your personhood / humanity. I seek not to erase it (despite its flaws) nor do I deem you or anyone “spawned” from it to be unworthy of existance. People, communities and cultures are often indiscrete and in a constant state of adaptation. This type of rhetoric belongs in an era that should be left behind.
Yours is the language that seeks to enable genocide. It normalizes the idea of punishing the many for the actions of the few based on vague, perceived similarities. Criticize all you want but be mindful of the words you choose.
Dude you can’t just accuse people of supporting genocide and shit when they’ve not done anything of the sort.
It’s not unreasonable for people to look at a mass of other people who are cheering on the rape and murder of their own relative and think “yeah, the world doesn’t need that lot”
He did though, which is why his comment was removed. Saying a culture “doesn’t deserve to exist” is neo Nazi rhetoric. He’s free to criticize these specific people, advocating for ethnic cleansing is indefensible though. Of course when asked to define the culture he deemed unworthy of existence, he made a run for it.
Ok let’s be precise with our language. What culture are you referring to? Do you have a name for it?
My language was precise. I said exactly what I intended to say. All you’re doing here is confessing that you began criticizing me without sufficient reason to do so, and now you need me to say something else that you might actually be able to argue against.
It simply is indistinguishable from fascism because ultimately the fascists decided which cultures were problematic, who was a part of them and therefore who “deserved” to be exterminated.
This is a straw-man. I never said anybody or anything deserved to be exterminated. Strange… if the language I used was actually that bad and “indistinguishable”, there wouldn’t be any need for you to change it, would there?
In your first two paragraphs, you have already managed to demonstrate twice that you have no intention of making an honest attempt at discussing the actual subject here. From where I’m sitting, you seem desperate to manufacture offense that you’ll take the side of a culture that celebrates the murder of an innocent girl, and try to paint critics of that culture as fascists.
I skimmed the rest of your comment. “erase” “punish” “genocide”. Yep. Lots of dishonest injection of charged language and strawmen. Sorry, I’m not even going to bother really reading the rest of your comment, as you’ve made your intentions here clear. I’ll just be blocking you.
Hey I made a fascist run away today, not bad.
Our species is the worst.
Over 260k people killed in the Iraq War, mostly civilians, over $1 trillion spent, over nearly 9 years, just so we could have another Afghanistan.
Words cannot describe the hatred I feel for people that hurt kids.
May she rest in peace…
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The recent push in NC to essentially allow people to murder women that try to abort their pregnancy is based on an extreme distortion of Christianity. It’s fair to say this is the current state of the religion and it’s fair to say this is an unholy bastardization of the religion. In either of these extremes it’s clear that someone’s ideology is taking priority over their humanity.
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I do however take an issue in the “unholy alliance” (europes) “left” has made with Islam some time ago.
You mean allowing refugees to enter? God forbid…
So you’re saying this is exclusive to Islam.
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Then why did you bring it up specifically?
It’s the religion of peace!
Damn! on the one hand, humans are doing innovation in science and technology and on the other hand, such barbaric things still exist in this world.
It exists everywhere but in differents forms. In east it is family sanctioned rape of children in west it is money sanctioned rape of children. In some of these cases, people doing cutting edge science are involved, either as willing observers or possibly active participants. Common denominator is humans.
Yeah, humans might have a lot of Technologial evolution but we have nowhere as much Social evolution and even less Psychological evolution.
“… in that car with three men from the family that was supposed to be her circle of safety.” In that society, no, they are not supposed to be her saftey net. Men aren’t even the same species in that society. People ask how could they… They don’t consider women as people.
Even in the western society, women generally have to live multiple lives. In public they are supposed to be beautiful and smiling all the time. In the bedroom they are supposed to be slutty (but only for their man). With children they are supposed to be saintly. In the home they are supposed to have the managment skills few CEOs possess.
Men these days are supposed to have only two personalities. At work and mixed company they are supposed to treat women like people and respect them. In the locker room, with their buddies, or behind closed doors, not so much.
That is why in some places, unmarried women are not supposed to be alone with a man. Because the men want to remove the “at work and mixed company” part so that they can drop one of those personalities. This murder is the result of taking away the time when women are supposed to be treated like people, and letting the men lean into the worst personality they can have.While I can’t speak for the female perspective personally, nor can I pretend to speak for all men, I find the perspective you are presenting to be quite the generalization. There’s a reason people were outraged about Trump’s “locker room talk” excuse for his remark about “grabbing women by the pussy”, it’s certainly not the societal standard for men to become misogynistic molesters when they are in a safe space.
There’s a reason people were outraged about Trump’s “locker room talk” excuse for his remark about “grabbing women by the pussy”, it’s certainly not the societal standard for men to become misogynistic molesters when they are in a safe space.
I mean… It does seem at least half the voters in American society were not that upset by it.
If we assume that everyone who voted Trump in the 2016 elections were either okay with this or not offended enough not to vote for him, that percentage is actually more like 25-26% (He got about 63m votes in 2016 out of a voting eligible population of 243m). Still way too high if you ask me, but at least it’s not that bleak.
That’s an optimistic take. There are a great many reasons people didn’t vote, and it’s false on its face that they all stayed home because they didn’t condone his disgusting views on women. It’s not statistically unreasonable to assume the ratio of people who tolerate or even endorse Trump level misogyny extends equally through the non-voting population.
If we’re going to be part of the solution, we at least need to acknowledge the scale of the problem. There’s a gut reaction to want to assume the best, if only because the alternative is depressing and isolating, but not wanting to believe it’s that bad doesn’t make it wrong.
I agree with you, but it’s just as incorrect to point at the near 50% support he got in the 2016 elections from the voting public and draw conclusions regarding the popularity of misogyny based on that number alone too.
Is it? There’s a lot of indicators suggesting it’s pretty close to accurate, that’s just one of many. Especially among young men, the abject hatred of women is soaring, and that attitude didn’t come from nowhere.
That attitude is being pushed by social media influencers, who are in turn (proven to be) on the payroll of the folks who want to return to a feudal misogynistic society. It’s not an organic belief.
He got about 63m votes in 2016 out of a voting eligible population of 243m). Still way too high if you ask me, but at least it’s not that bleak.
One would hope that the people who abstained from voting or are ineligible would be against that type of behaviour as well, but judging on how America is doing now a days i wouldn’t put money on it.
Edit: Whoops responded to the wrong part of the thread.
You are confusing media outrage with actual outrage. Even the media outrage wasn’t all that significant really. Billy bush was only out of work for a few years before he got a new hosting gig.
Are you messaging the right person? I was saying that a ton of people really didn’t care about Trump’s misogyny.
Yeah, my bad, I was aiming for who you responded to.
You are confusing media outrage with actual outrage. Even the media outrage wasn’t all that significant really. Billy bush was only out of work for a few years before he got a new hosting gig.
I ,itterally said generally in the text. Of course it was a generalization. But try reading any parenting group. Women are constantly talking how they are expected to cover multiple roles just like the ones I mentioned. It’s not really any kind of revelation honestly. It was just background for the final assertions.
