No we obviously built agriculture so we could have futures trading
The shareholders disagree. And their opinion is the only one that matters
Then what SHOULD be a commodity, smart-ass? Since you’re the king of commodities?
Toilet paper
My bidet allows me to build a stockpile for hoarding!
Luxuries. Human needs are well understood, finite, and easily provided absent violent control.
Remember the countries that voted in the UN against food being a human right ? The USA and Israel.
Yeah these two would vote against air being a human right.
Genocidal zio kids grow up starving people.
Capitalism can not exist without the violent deprivation of basic human needs.
Fr, where do people think their clothes come from?
For profit. Who cares about people?
Food, shelter and warmth are the only things we need. And we have more than enough for every single person on earth. Boy oh boy did we ever reveal our shortcomings as a race. Even barn rats look out for each other.
Water.
It was implied with food but you are correct.
Yeah and water might soon become the one thing we don’t have enough of
Who is “we”? What “race”?
No thanks on this vague distraction from the actual blame.
We? Fucking humans. Earthlings. God the divisiveness has eaten deep into your brain.
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The state hoards all of the land
Lock-and-key grain agriculture exists precisely TO suppress people. Grain agriculture spread not because bread is a miracle and we all love it and need so much of it, but rather because grains have a predictable harvest and consistent size and weight that makes them useful for taxing purposes for states – and it makes populations grow because it requires you to be sedentary… which also useful for states in many situations. States and hierarchies are the problem.
So the issue is: we industrialized because we wanted to sell more food while paying less people for working. Not because we wanted to make the world a better place.
Industrialization and AI are actually very similar. Both were pushed by rich people who wanted to pay less for producing more.
And just like industrialization, push to use AI is lowering quality of everything. Because quality things cannot be mass-produced.
Industrialized ag happened because the large majority of people don’t want to do the hard work of farming. All of you here want to make a 6+ figure income sitting in your comfortable home office. Rather than working 10-hour days sweating in the hot sun to grow your own food and provide for its storage.
You wanted those pretty lights and shiny baubles the urban life provides. So, because so many people want to get that nice cushy life, you have fewer people needing to feed more and more people that can’t provide food for themselves. So what is the end result?
Quality things can be mass-produced but you don’t have to renew them as often and you quickly reach saturation of the market and thus your sales plumet.
So they prefer enshittification and planned obsolescence…
You mistake quality with durability.
We could have things that are aesthetically pleasing instead of just endless gray boxes. We could have machines that have functionality more tailored to our needs. But that wouldn’t be as easy to automate in production.
When we can’t feed everyone, that’s weakness, and it is sad.
When its a choice, that’s power, and its fun!
Exactly, can’t be won’t.
To make more food to stockpile and force people to buy or watch rot you silly billy!
Seriously though. Its one thing to want to sell the food, I get that people gotta get paid, but the fact that in a lot of places we just throw away the unsold food to rot in the rubbish is ridiculous!
Like seriously, we’re just gonna throw away this food rather than even attempt to give it to those in need, and fire anybody who tries, cause it might slightly eat into profits?? That’s just psychopathic levels of corporate apathy.
The excess is also insane. When people can’t afford or won’t afford the high beef prices, will the corporations who make it produce less or take it to market to be used in more sustainable products? As a society we’ve moved to not just make sure enough food is available but that everyone has an opportunity to purchase anything they might want. With fresh foods that means guaranteed waste, which means higher prices to make up for that waste.
My great grandparents ran a grocery store in a very small town. My grandfather ran a butcher counter that he got regular deliveries for and everyone in town knew the schedule, once the meat was gone, that was it until the next delivery. They grew produce in the summer and always canned any excess. There was always enough food for everyone who cared to buy it, but there wasn’t so much that everyone could get everything at any time.
There are places where the trash bins of supermarkets are locked so homeless people can’t take thrown away food from them
Most supermarkets have compactors.
Nutrition cubes
So, here’s a problem: food logistics is a massive, complicated morass of infrastructure. Getting food from the area where it’s produced to the area where there are people who want to eat it is difficult. A lot of individual steps have to go right for a bell pepper grown in Coahuila to show up in a grocery store in Tokyo, unspoilt and ready to eat.
The timing of when the pepper is picked, how fast it will ripen and how long until it spoils is built into the steps of the supply chain. The cost of the logistics system for distributing food, and the overhead for managing and containing the chaos, is probably substantially higher than the cost of actually producing the food.
The point being, when the bell pepper is at the store it is now ready for consumption. It will be there 2, maybe 3 days, and then if it is unsold it is at least halfway to rotten. Now at this point you want to try to redistribute it, which will require another supply chain, but there isn’t time to figure out where to send an overripe bell pepper or who would want to eat it, or to pack it and ship it and then unpack it and hopefully use it before it’s completely rotten.
Refrigeration is a wonderful technology that has brought massive reduction of food waste, but it has limits. You can’t un-ripen a fruit. Trying to re-ship food at this point would not be worth the cost, and ultimately would create environmental harms that would outweigh any benefit.
Always buy local, as much as you can!
Okay, that’s true for fresh produce with a minimal shelf life. But we also do that for shelf stable (like dried, canned, jarred) foods which can much more reasonably be donated after their display date.
And that’s assuming some sort of centralised donation scheme, and not just mandating the stores donate to a local foodbank or such - which would make it a bit more feasible to donate some fresh produce.
Dumpster diving is fun and easy.
Isnt eating food from dumpsters unsafe?
Meat/eggs/dairy, definitely.
Vegetables, maybe, depending on what else they’ve touched.
Dry/canned goods, probably not unless they’re wet (e.g if it’s in a cardboard box or paper package and it’s damp, it’s not worth the risk - if we’re talking about grocery store waste then for all you know that was water used to wash the butcher’s work station or mop the floor).
Bacterial contamination is your primary concern, and after that mold. Salmonella could just end your life.
Caveat on canned goods: avoid bloated cans if they contain any meat. Bloated fruit cans contain alcohol.
So you’re saying bloated fruit cans are the ones to look for? Got it, thanks!
Provided the seals are intact, it’s unlikely they contain anything worse than alcohol.
If they contain any meat at all, assume they’re a biohazard.
But good luck finding them at all. Most places that sell canned food have compactors nowadays, and it’s been that way for some time.
Oh yeah, good point, avoid any cans that look bent, dented or expanded.
Are dented cans a concern? I thought it just meant someone dropped them
The problem is that the seal around the end of the can might be broken in a not-obvious way. If air can get in, bacteria can start to grow inside.
dented can ruin the seal
Unsold food that is given away creates a liability if it causes problems. Food banks are the middle man in that respect, where they can toss things that aren’t going to stay good and provide for people with the rest. So here’s where government, regulation, and socialism comes into play. Companies should be encouraged with money to do something other than toss that food. Better systems should be in place to move that food to the food bank. Better regulation there to make sure that the food is being examined well enough. More places for all this to happen.
This ignores fixing the real problem, profit driven consumption, societies where people aren’t able to provide for themselves, etc.
So by itself you aren’t going to get unsold food to the needy, the risk and cost is too great for companies.
Idk how widespread it is but I’ve volunteered with organizations that get massive shipments of unsold food that’s then repackaged by them and then given out or sold at a substantially lower cost, so this does happen. This is backed by federal laws limiting the liability of donors, and at least in my state there are also laws limiting food waste to incentivize participation in such programs.
Make it easy for the corpos. Criminalize destroyed food. The financial disincentive needs to be very punitive like some percentage revenue first offense. Then jail time for execs and boards. Those companies may need to hire community coordinators to deal with the near expiring foodstuffs to avoid the criminal liability. Capitalists might assume people would stop buying food and just wait for it all to be near expiring, but the reality is, those with means will take the convenience of a purchase over a long, uncertain wait, potentially queuing hours or even the night before the food banks would open. It might depress prices as they get desperate to trade some of the remaining margin before being required to give it away. Oh no, what will we do if the rich people are slightly less rich!
Actually, this is completely false for US based companies.
They limited liability in 96
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Emerson_Good_Samaritan_Act_of_1996
Correct to say that’s the law the lawyers you pay will have to cite to defend your company in a suit? Which a big corporation we would hope would treat as a cost of doing business, of course.
Imagine some businesses are ignorant of the law and some are super paranoid about even baseless litigation.
Do you think industrial safety standards that companies spend tonnes of money on maintaining every year just popped out of thin air or the good will of companies?
Hell no. The mega-corps at least would be chucking children into factory machines 7 days a week like back in to early 20th century if they thought they could get away with it.
If you want companies to do something they’re otherwise not incentivised to do, you regulate it into existence. Force their hands just like Governments did in the past, and have now become increasingly less willing to do because of blatant corruption.
The easiest path in my mind is a one-two combo…
Firstly you give minimal liability to the food donor, so as long as they made a good faith effort to check the food wasn’t bad before handing it over you can’t be sued (I.e. if you’re giving a batch of cans, you’d check them for defects like bloating or cracks/dents).
Secondly, you create criminal liability for throwing away non-defective shelf stable foods (such as dried, canned and/or jarred foods) for companies over a certain size (to prevent from screwing over small businesses that may not have the logistics to ensure consistent donations).
Those two things create a pathway by which donations can be made with minimal risk, and disincentivise the route of least resistance (aka. Throwing it all away).
Liberals absolutely loath the hungry and starve people for entertainment. They hate the fact that anarchists adore their comrades and feed ourselves for solidarity.
Tell a liberal to open a canteen, and see how they send cops to destroy free food caravan.
Soup kitchens work great, and I do not know how they avoid this shit. Perhaps they enthusiastically pretend not to be interested in mutual aid of any kind, just helping the deserving poor or whatever.
Thankyou for piercing my complacency. They really do not give a shit about anything but property values, do they?
¯\(ツ)/¯ I simply lack cognitive dissonance and the flaw to introspect.
I guess I was born to care for my fellow intelligent lifeforms.
What is your opinion on conservatives?
read my description.
DNI is burned into my brain as Do Not Inventory…
What does it mean in the context of your profile?
Also, I fucking hate retail
Gonna chime in here, I am pretty sure DNI stands for “do not interact”
I appreciate you. Thanks!
👍
You can infer from the criticisms that they feel its not worth distinguishing between two groups willing to subject the poor to infinite cruelty to uphold their own privilege under capitalism.
Not an anarchist, but I doubt any anarchists here would disagree with Kwame Ture’s banger of an essay on the subject: https://redsails.org/the-pitfalls-of-liberalism/
Food, water, housing.
+Healthcare
+Education
All of which we can already provide for everyone forever indefinitely… if we stopped making profit the only point of value to these endeavours.
I could grow food or even aquire water, but what the fuck am I supposed to do about medicine?
I can’t reconstruct an entire civilization’s worth of cutting-edge medical tech and knowledge.
HEALTHCARE and medication.
Totally agree, I thought of it 2 seconds after posting and then saw everyone else mentioned it when I scrolled, so I figured the comment section had it covered.
First : The US government would give people cases of water based on your social security number like they do with snap which currently, can make some people depending on your social security number, wait as far as two weeks into the month for food stamps. So imagine how that would play out with water. By the way that’s a way (☝🏻 not THE way, A way) they ration food in communism, they use things like your birth date or state identity (social security) and then ration it that way. Imagine toilet paper being given to you in rationed quantities based on your social security number.
Second: I only agree water and the ability to have a tent without being detained should be basic human needs. Food is a survival thing. You earn food by either by killing your own food or buying it. Water in the other hand it’s around but we as humans worry about parasites and shit because we need to so maybe we just start talking about lifestraws more often.
I think that laws surrounding the inability to live life without relying on the grid are exhausting and I think that we’re all just meant to be kept down.
In your opinion, should disabled people and poor people who get too sick to work just fucking die?
You know what’s nuts is every time I’ve mentioned that subset on reddit I’d get a mixed reaction so I leave those groups put due to the obvious answer of they deserve it.
I think if you’re physically able to work but have something with your mental health setting you back in life and you’re constantly trying to make the effort to integrate into society by going to vocational training and supplementing income by working the hours that you possibly can that your condition allows then you should be able to keep your benefits. I think if you’re like stunning half the day, non verbalaand can’t wash yourself yeah check and housing for life homie!!!.
I think if you can work you should work.
Second comment: the othertthing no one talks about is how much of an addiction it becomes. If you get the max amount from disability that near 2k a month minus health insurance and food. You have no generalized savings, unless you’re on section 8 due to how much rent you’d have to pay if you weren’t. You can have assets with disability but regualr SSI which limits assets and you’d have to keep all your money on cash because if you go over a certain limit in savings which you can’t even have a savings account really because of the limit and no work based income it’s harder to get a, “regualr bank account,” unless it’s at a credit union. You also can’t own a car on SSI but you can on disability.
Life isn’t great on these services you’re very limited and you’re better off, if you’re able to getting a career that pays at least 75k$ a year and lower expenses on luxuries.
“If you’re disabled, you’re better off getting a job that pays $10k over the US median annual income than collecting disability.”
What a worthless take.
I mean fuck me for setting my standards further than being in poverty forever. By the way, college certification courses aren’t hard to pay for with payment plans and SaaS/cloud computing isn’t a bad one. Even hvac is bumpin’ and that’s one that autistics can excel at. You could sell an infrastructure or build it and it’s less than 15,000$ to get there. Hvac can get to Six Figures but SaaS/Cloud Computing is a high starter. Mri techs aren’t bad either those are high paying low cost certification profession.
Set your goals higher than a bui. How about we help those who are in poverty get into thsie careers and build them up instead of keeping them on fucking poverty jeez us man.
Okay, so you are more able-bodied than some people. Awesome for you. Not everyone is capable of what you are, even with extensive support. Telling those people to get off SSI, go to school, and get a job isn’t helpful. In fact, it mostly just further erodes their self-worth because everything in our fucking society is tied to what value a person can produce for capitalism.
Everyone deserves to be able to live, even if they can’t work.
Really someone learning a valuable skill errors their self worth how? Maybe by a dead end job market but that’s their fault then for not doing research on the job market before spending money on furthering your life and btw Affirm has payment plans that are affordable for nearly every earning bracket for college courses.
Leanring a skill that can help you earn money and get you out of poverty is what fucked up?
Yes, the system as it is now sucks. You speak as if that is mandatory and unchangeable.
Again, in your opinion, should disabled people and poor people who get too sick to work just fucking die?
No but if there comes a time when they’re able to get vocational training and contribute, they should.
That is not what I asked, way to twist the question lol. Why is it so hard for you to say that no, disable and sick people should not be left to die? That’s a weird thing to not be able to do.
from a previous comment: . So there’s 350mil people in the US. There’s 163mil working individuals. It’s 6.3E11 to provide $1,800 month which means if you divide that by the amount of workers you get 3865.0306748466257668. So I’m willing to guess that’s how much a month it would cost to the workers of this country to provide $1,800/MO to everyone in the entire country. Which means you’d have to make that figure smaller because not everyone makes enough to cover that a month.
So that means that if every worker reached that 3865.0306748466257668 every 9 months by paying 429.44785276073619631 a month in extra taxes…
It would take 9 months to gain the amount of money it would take to make everyone in the US a recipient of 1,800$ a month. Now it would take about 14 years to save up for 25 years worth of being able to give everyone in the US 1,800$. Which means if that money was held in a trust and redistributed in 14 years, it would then not be able to cover the cost of bare minimal goods and services for everyone in the US because within that time frame there will be more births, inflation will occur and the cost of living adjusts. That means that less people can have that money from the trust because now you have to account for those adjustments. Which means that even if you did have enough money to give everyone 1,800$ for 25 years, the amount of time needed to accumulate that would make it so that the very same 1,800$ is worthless.
That’s currently how social security works. There’s an amount of money in a trust that’s made up of tax payer dollars that redistributes that money to those who can not take care of themselves. They do a COLA (a cost of living adjustment) annually and give people more every year if you’re receiving from the government which means that’s less money for the next person that needs it.
The current problem is, that the very same money in the trust is running out.
Which is why I said, it’s not a possibility to be able to give everyone an income or keep everyone alive. There will be casualties and that’s usually do to societal needs not being able to be met by the fact that there simply isn’t enough to go around for everyone.
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I guess it’s only in my state because I get mine on the 13th I think of every month.
50s Prediction: In the future, robots will do menial tasks so you can focus on arts, family and science!
Actuality: You lost you job as an artist to AI. Enjoy a lifetime of debt and poverty. Maybe you can find some menial way to sustain yourself just enough to barely live.
IDK, Player Piano was released in 1952 and called out a world where increasing automation lead to an enriched and privileged engineer class and everyone else living in poverty and internal displacement. For a debut novel, it was pretty good.
But even Player Piano gave the masses UBI.
TBF I read it in early college (for fun not as an assignment) and I’m significantly past college age.
