Unpopular opinion:
Universal human rights apply to all humans, including Nazis.
Dehumanizing people and denying them their human rights is what Nazis do.
Nazis do have human rights. Including the right to be punished for their actions. Just like everyone else.
But if the governments don’t punish them for their actions then don’t be surprised if people take matters into their own hands. Which again, would happen to any group of people that were perceived as having too much power and being given too much leeway by the government, regardless of political beliefs.
I find it amazing that you’re seriously advising people to fight the foot soldiers to no end instead of, you know, the handful of people in that “government” who are responsible for enabling them. The people with the wealth, influence, and technology to rig elections, make enemies and evidence disappear, controvert the law with impunity, and psychologically manipulate the masses.
But yeah fuck it, let’s just stay mad at Bubba on Facebook with a room temp IQ. I’m sure Sun Tzu would be proud.
You see the problem here is you’ve decided what I’m arguing and suggesting people do, rather than actually reading my comment. I don’t think I’ve ever stated anywhere that you can’t apply any of what I’ve said to politicians rich CEOs and anybody else who’s at it.
But there is a very important distinction to be made between the people who are actually hurting people and the people who are using them, because the people who are using them won’t do anything on their own, they need their foot soldiers as you call them. Diminish their foot soldiers and you diminish their power too, it’s all one thing. I’m pretty sure Sun Tzu probably has something to say about actually killing your enemies soldiers being worthwhile objective.
But there is a very important distinction to be made between the people who are actually hurting people and the people who are using them, because the people who are using them won’t do anything on their own, they need their foot soldiers as you call them. Diminish their foot soldiers and you diminish their power too, it’s all one thing.
Again, hilarious. You’ve talked yourself out of correctness and into victim blaming. Congratulations, you’re no better than them for the good of all mankind. Toodles.
I’m confused as to what your suggestion is. Do you think people who are “just followingorders” should not be held accountable for their actions because they were not the ones issuing the orders?
Hey do you remember the part of WWII where they landed on Omaha Beach then just sat there for the rest of the war killing wave after wave of dudes?
Yeah me neither, cuz it didn’t happen. They pressed forward. They went for the commanders. The generals. They went for Hitler. Don’t ask me stupid questions like that again.
A right is something you can claim for yourself. “Being punished for your actions” is not a right. I’d even argue that, from a political/social standpoint, punishment shouldn’t be the goal: at a minimum, we should seek to reeducate, and if that fails, isolation is the way to go.
That being said, at the individual level, I wholeheartedly condone the punching of nazis.
The right have it so easy. They are all united together as one group of racist assholes.
The left after deal with a bunch of fence sitters that never want to do anything, who generally just hope that the situation magically resolves itself on its own. Any suggestion by anyone that maybe it would be a good idea to perhaps do something, is always meant with pushback.
A Nazi may “die” through ceasing to hold to Nazi ideals, and striving to better themselves. Many strong fighters for good causes began their fight on the wrong side. I can’t imagine how much worse the world would be if, historically, such people had been killed out of hand as you suggest would be right.
We’re giving them a good kicking but they walk away with no broken bones, no concussion, and certainly with all their organs still functioning. For the most part these guys are cowards, you don’t need to kill them to stop them, you just need to make them experience mild discomfort.
It’s the right that love to kill each other.
Although I have to ask, do you seriously think that these people have anything to contribute to society. For the most part they think the way they do because they are ill-educated woth the world horizon been about 50 miles away from their own house. They’ve never met the people they hate, they’ve never been to their country, these people have never experienced the suffering of war or famine, and because of that they can’t imagine it. I don’t think society is being denied the next Nobel laureate just because it is intolerant of racists.
I’ll agree this should be an unpopular opinion. When they deny the rights of others, they forfeit their own.
Society is generally based on social contracts regarding human decency, respect and what apparently are more extreme ideas like compassion and empathy. It’s an agreement to be a part of a community, not to exploit it for selfish gain. If they want to do that, at the very least they should be exiled and allowed only care about themselves by themselves.
We need to stop tolerating intolerance. If you’re harmful to our species letalone our planet that we share with so many others, part present and future, ostracize or eradicate. This high road shit has gotten use nowhere in the entirety of our planets history but right here where monsters are allowed and encouraged to reign.
I’ll also agree to step up to the chopping block if it means I take some of these assholes to hell hand in hand with me.
Granting someone human rights IS NOT tolerance.
And it’s not high road shit.
When Nazis attack your state with an army, shoot them in defense.
When they attack your society, arrest them, give them a trial, lock them up and seize all assets they used.
Inestigate their support network and shut that down. Ban Nazi parties, clubs and groups.
Also, fund organisations that help people trying to get out of the Nazi community.
The problem we have isn’t that those measures aren’t enough.
It’s that we don’t even do those things, because our politicians are actually in league with them or afraid of them.
It IS bullshit. No one ever is born with the notion of human rights and all the crap, but some creatures are born human nonetheless. Which is why
And it’s not high road shit
It actually is. I can agree not to kill someone unless they have killed or caused comparable harm, but not after. Once someone has breached social contract of decent treatment of others - they are not protected by it in my eyes anymore. Yes, it makes me capable of terrible things. No, I am not giving up that capability just for an idea that “I am good and civilized, unlike others”
This argument just destroyed all of the plans of civilized man. WE ARE RUINED! at any moment we could be deceived! Let’s all lie down in the dirt and cry until we die.
How so? It’s not like we’re being manipulated into thinking people that aren’t nazis are. We’re watching them openly do nazi shit, we’re watching seig heils at the inauguration, we’re seeing literally nazi playbook shit, again all out in the open. Nobody is telling us this is nazi shit, we’re just seeing it for what it is. How can that be used nefariously? There’s no fox news equivalent manipulating the masses of the left, we’re just informed enough to see a spade for a fuckin spade. So tell me exactly how that can make me susceptible to do inhumane things based on false information. Be specific.
Are you seriously suggesting that merely pointing to someone and going this guy’s a Nazi would immediately result in a beating? Come on that’s an intellectually dishonest arguement and you know it, that is absolutely not happening no one is doing that.
What’s happening is the Nazis are ousting themselves. They provide their own evidence. They film themselves doing this stuff, rioting, setting fire to buildings, weaving misspelt banners around. They are pointing the finger at themselves.
No one attacks people without evidence. Look at Trump, every time Mr tiny hands doesn’t like somebody he accuses them of being a fascist, without knowing what the word means. But it’s utterly irrelevant because no one believes him.
When they attack your society, arrest them, give them a trial, lock them up and seize all assets they used.
Inestigate their support network and shut that down. Ban Nazi parties, clubs and groups.
Does that mean that from your perspective, the US shouldn’t have attacked and defeated the Nazis in WW2 and should have allowed them to stay in power and do their thing instead?
This kinda seems like preferring to sacrifice the human rights of the innocent, to protect the human rights of their murderers.
Welcome to the uncomfortable morality of international relations, where you may be able to stop some evil people, but the costs may involve extreme human suffering and you may not be able to stop them.
Attacking nazi Germany is one end of the spectrum, in retrospect it was an easy choice. The Iraq war is on the other end, it went quite poorly and the internal motivations were tainted. The US war in Afghanistan is up there with it. And there’s a lot of gray areas, like theoretically attacking Myanmar today or the bombing campaign that contributed to the fall of Ghaddafi.
At the time people were absolutely trying to frame it partially in moral terms. It’s the other end of the spectrum, an intervention with some intended moral aim (to stop the attacks on the Iraqi Kurds) that’s now nearly universally understood to not have been moral.
Trolley problem — save the human rights of billions by sacrificing the human rights of the few who want to tie all of these people to the trolley tracks
Not that I don’t agree but if I was a nazi i would prefer to die anyways. Even if I didn’t get killed my cellmates would probs kill me unless im isolated which is… even worse.
Besides if I ever realized how messed up that was i would probs kill myself but idk how likely that is.
It doesn’t have to, but things have been allowed to get too far out of control, the political left have not pushed back enough and now we’ve got people doing nazi salutes out in the open. We are past the point of being able to deal with this to the legal system because the legal system has been co-opted.
I don’t know what people like you want. How do you want this situation resolving because all you ever say is what you don’t want, you don’t want violence, okay fine so how do you want to proceed?
Lmao why do you think there are corpses filling it?
they’re too busy playing by the rules and getting killed with nobody caring, because “we’re better than all that” is a dumb notion that ultimately makes you a pushover that wouldn’t pull the trigger to save 1000 people.
The most terrifying thing to me about Nazism and fascism is that, by all psychological and otherwise measurable accounts, people who exhibit its traits are on the whole not that different from any other person you might find without them. Perhaps you could say they found a mental switch—a way of justifying their actions and behaviors—that forfeits one’s humanity in the process, but I believe this line of thinking is flawed.
No, I think Nazis are fully human, which condemns their depravity all the more. They don’t get to escape from the moral weight of what they’ve done by being stripped of the burdens and responsibilities of humanity. We cannot underestimate Nazis, or treat them as though they are mere animals or dumb cogs; they are an example of every single thing a person cannot be and also be allowed to live normal, quiet lives in a just world.
Nazism is a sort of evil that, from what we know, only humans are capable of.
Unpopular opinion:
Universal human rights apply to all humans, including Nazis.
Dehumanizing people and denying them their human rights is what Nazis do.
Nazis do have human rights. Including the right to be punished for their actions. Just like everyone else.
But if the governments don’t punish them for their actions then don’t be surprised if people take matters into their own hands. Which again, would happen to any group of people that were perceived as having too much power and being given too much leeway by the government, regardless of political beliefs.
I find it amazing that you’re seriously advising people to fight the foot soldiers to no end instead of, you know, the handful of people in that “government” who are responsible for enabling them. The people with the wealth, influence, and technology to rig elections, make enemies and evidence disappear, controvert the law with impunity, and psychologically manipulate the masses.
But yeah fuck it, let’s just stay mad at Bubba on Facebook with a room temp IQ. I’m sure Sun Tzu would be proud.
You see the problem here is you’ve decided what I’m arguing and suggesting people do, rather than actually reading my comment. I don’t think I’ve ever stated anywhere that you can’t apply any of what I’ve said to politicians rich CEOs and anybody else who’s at it.
But there is a very important distinction to be made between the people who are actually hurting people and the people who are using them, because the people who are using them won’t do anything on their own, they need their foot soldiers as you call them. Diminish their foot soldiers and you diminish their power too, it’s all one thing. I’m pretty sure Sun Tzu probably has something to say about actually killing your enemies soldiers being worthwhile objective.
Again, hilarious. You’ve talked yourself out of correctness and into victim blaming. Congratulations, you’re no better than them for the good of all mankind. Toodles.
I’m confused as to what your suggestion is. Do you think people who are “just followingorders” should not be held accountable for their actions because they were not the ones issuing the orders?
Hey do you remember the part of WWII where they landed on Omaha Beach then just sat there for the rest of the war killing wave after wave of dudes?
Yeah me neither, cuz it didn’t happen. They pressed forward. They went for the commanders. The generals. They went for Hitler. Don’t ask me stupid questions like that again.
And who did they have to kill to get to those people?
So you do understand that they were after an actual meaningful goal and not just there to commit murder on a bunch of nobodies.
A right is something you can claim for yourself. “Being punished for your actions” is not a right. I’d even argue that, from a political/social standpoint, punishment shouldn’t be the goal: at a minimum, we should seek to reeducate, and if that fails, isolation is the way to go.
That being said, at the individual level, I wholeheartedly condone the punching of nazis.
I’m not surprised. But I don’t condone or celebrate it either.
The right have it so easy. They are all united together as one group of racist assholes.
The left after deal with a bunch of fence sitters that never want to do anything, who generally just hope that the situation magically resolves itself on its own. Any suggestion by anyone that maybe it would be a good idea to perhaps do something, is always meant with pushback.
The death of a Nazi is always a cause for celebration
A Nazi may “die” through ceasing to hold to Nazi ideals, and striving to better themselves. Many strong fighters for good causes began their fight on the wrong side. I can’t imagine how much worse the world would be if, historically, such people had been killed out of hand as you suggest would be right.
You do get no ones actually killing them.
We’re giving them a good kicking but they walk away with no broken bones, no concussion, and certainly with all their organs still functioning. For the most part these guys are cowards, you don’t need to kill them to stop them, you just need to make them experience mild discomfort.
It’s the right that love to kill each other.
Although I have to ask, do you seriously think that these people have anything to contribute to society. For the most part they think the way they do because they are ill-educated woth the world horizon been about 50 miles away from their own house. They’ve never met the people they hate, they’ve never been to their country, these people have never experienced the suffering of war or famine, and because of that they can’t imagine it. I don’t think society is being denied the next Nobel laureate just because it is intolerant of racists.
I’ll agree this should be an unpopular opinion. When they deny the rights of others, they forfeit their own.
Society is generally based on social contracts regarding human decency, respect and what apparently are more extreme ideas like compassion and empathy. It’s an agreement to be a part of a community, not to exploit it for selfish gain. If they want to do that, at the very least they should be exiled and allowed only care about themselves by themselves.
We need to stop tolerating intolerance. If you’re harmful to our species letalone our planet that we share with so many others, part present and future, ostracize or eradicate. This high road shit has gotten use nowhere in the entirety of our planets history but right here where monsters are allowed and encouraged to reign.
I’ll also agree to step up to the chopping block if it means I take some of these assholes to hell hand in hand with me.
Granting someone human rights IS NOT tolerance.
And it’s not high road shit.
When Nazis attack your state with an army, shoot them in defense.
When they attack your society, arrest them, give them a trial, lock them up and seize all assets they used.
Inestigate their support network and shut that down. Ban Nazi parties, clubs and groups.
Also, fund organisations that help people trying to get out of the Nazi community.
The problem we have isn’t that those measures aren’t enough.
It’s that we don’t even do those things, because our politicians are actually in league with them or afraid of them.
It IS bullshit. No one ever is born with the notion of human rights and all the crap, but some creatures are born human nonetheless. Which is why
It actually is. I can agree not to kill someone unless they have killed or caused comparable harm, but not after. Once someone has breached social contract of decent treatment of others - they are not protected by it in my eyes anymore. Yes, it makes me capable of terrible things. No, I am not giving up that capability just for an idea that “I am good and civilized, unlike others”
It also makes you susceptible to do inhumane things to people based on false information.
This argument just destroyed all of the plans of civilized man. WE ARE RUINED! at any moment we could be deceived! Let’s all lie down in the dirt and cry until we die.
How so? It’s not like we’re being manipulated into thinking people that aren’t nazis are. We’re watching them openly do nazi shit, we’re watching seig heils at the inauguration, we’re seeing literally nazi playbook shit, again all out in the open. Nobody is telling us this is nazi shit, we’re just seeing it for what it is. How can that be used nefariously? There’s no fox news equivalent manipulating the masses of the left, we’re just informed enough to see a spade for a fuckin spade. So tell me exactly how that can make me susceptible to do inhumane things based on false information. Be specific.
Yes, and unless I am inhumane myself that will go on to
hunthaunt me long after the fact. This knife cuts both waysAre you seriously suggesting that merely pointing to someone and going this guy’s a Nazi would immediately result in a beating? Come on that’s an intellectually dishonest arguement and you know it, that is absolutely not happening no one is doing that.
What’s happening is the Nazis are ousting themselves. They provide their own evidence. They film themselves doing this stuff, rioting, setting fire to buildings, weaving misspelt banners around. They are pointing the finger at themselves.
No one attacks people without evidence. Look at Trump, every time Mr tiny hands doesn’t like somebody he accuses them of being a fascist, without knowing what the word means. But it’s utterly irrelevant because no one believes him.
Nobody is born racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, and fascist either.
Yes, and?
This. Does. Not. Work.
Does that mean that from your perspective, the US shouldn’t have attacked and defeated the Nazis in WW2 and should have allowed them to stay in power and do their thing instead?
This kinda seems like preferring to sacrifice the human rights of the innocent, to protect the human rights of their murderers.
Welcome to the uncomfortable morality of international relations, where you may be able to stop some evil people, but the costs may involve extreme human suffering and you may not be able to stop them.
Attacking nazi Germany is one end of the spectrum, in retrospect it was an easy choice. The Iraq war is on the other end, it went quite poorly and the internal motivations were tainted. The US war in Afghanistan is up there with it. And there’s a lot of gray areas, like theoretically attacking Myanmar today or the bombing campaign that contributed to the fall of Ghaddafi.
I don’t think anybody is actually suggesting that the Iraq war for example was moral so I’m not quite sure what your point is.
At the time people were absolutely trying to frame it partially in moral terms. It’s the other end of the spectrum, an intervention with some intended moral aim (to stop the attacks on the Iraqi Kurds) that’s now nearly universally understood to not have been moral.
You talked us into enough shit.
Silence.
Username checks out.
Granted your wish and silenced you.
“Universal” human rights can be forfeited by the individual by attempting to restrict another’s rights.
Done and done.
Lets debate the SS in the marketplace of ideas…
Trolley problem — save the human rights of billions by sacrificing the human rights of the few who want to tie all of these people to the trolley tracks
Removed by mod
Not that I don’t agree but if I was a nazi i would prefer to die anyways. Even if I didn’t get killed my cellmates would probs kill me unless im isolated which is… even worse. Besides if I ever realized how messed up that was i would probs kill myself but idk how likely that is.
Doesn’t seem like a very unpopular opinion tbh
If you push back on “punch a nazi” you’ll find how unpopular it is quite quickly
Punching nazis is morally correct.
Oh look, another one.
First of all, go fuck yourself. Second of all, got a justification for why it isn’t? Just bullshit pacifism? That’s doing the fascists work for them.
You’ve got a funny way of soliciting responses. Goodbye.
Oh I thought I was replying to an asshole response pretty appropriately.
Without context, it isn’t.
As soon as I post it in a thread about Nazis doing Nazi shit, I get downvoted to hell.
Same with my anti-war stance.
Context is critical though. Often times I see people say things like “we shouldn’t stoop to their levels” which, like yeah, we shouldn’t have to.
The moral high road is filled with corpses.
It doesn’t have to, but things have been allowed to get too far out of control, the political left have not pushed back enough and now we’ve got people doing nazi salutes out in the open. We are past the point of being able to deal with this to the legal system because the legal system has been co-opted.
I don’t know what people like you want. How do you want this situation resolving because all you ever say is what you don’t want, you don’t want violence, okay fine so how do you want to proceed?
Lmao why do you think there are corpses filling it?
they’re too busy playing by the rules and getting killed with nobody caring, because “we’re better than all that” is a dumb notion that ultimately makes you a pushover that wouldn’t pull the trigger to save 1000 people.
Gee, I wonder why
Nazis aren’t people
The most terrifying thing to me about Nazism and fascism is that, by all psychological and otherwise measurable accounts, people who exhibit its traits are on the whole not that different from any other person you might find without them. Perhaps you could say they found a mental switch—a way of justifying their actions and behaviors—that forfeits one’s humanity in the process, but I believe this line of thinking is flawed.
No, I think Nazis are fully human, which condemns their depravity all the more. They don’t get to escape from the moral weight of what they’ve done by being stripped of the burdens and responsibilities of humanity. We cannot underestimate Nazis, or treat them as though they are mere animals or dumb cogs; they are an example of every single thing a person cannot be and also be allowed to live normal, quiet lives in a just world.
Nazism is a sort of evil that, from what we know, only humans are capable of.