For years, tech giants have argued that if information is available on the internet, it can be used for AI model development and outputs. They call it fair use. Content owners have tried to prevent this, with no success.
Now Anthropic, OpenAI, and Google are discovering what the rest of the internet has already learned through painful experience: once you put something online, people will find ways to use it in ways you don’t like and can’t stop.
The latest flashpoint is something called “distillation,” using the outputs of one AI model to improve another. Anthropic says competitors are harvesting its outputs at scale, turning billions of dollars of research into a shortcut for rivals. OpenAI and Google have made similar warnings recently.
Side note: Mamdani did a special appearance on Ms Rachel’s show? That’s actually kinda awesome!
Does Ms. Rachel condemn Hassan?
What…?
DOES MS RACHEL CONSUME HUMMUS?
I hope not, I wanted to eat that hummus >:(
If you paid attention to what Ms. Rachel was saying you’d know how to share better.
What’s your opinion on Haagen-daz? 🤔
I read that as “humans”.
Some interviewer asked Mamdani if he condemned the twitch streamer Hassan Piker. It’s just kind of a meme now.
Edit: now that I think of it I’m pretty sure it was Andrew Cuomo who asked him about it in a debate.
Funny cause there’s a similar meme in France about a tv host who used to repeat “BUT DO YOU CONDEMN HAMAS” with an exaggerated Arabic “rrramas” pronunciation
I’m kinda out of the loop, what did Hassan do?
He’s always just generally been a grifter. A self-proclaimed socialist that believes workers shouldn’t be compensated for their work. I recommend DarkViperAU’s video on him.
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Why would she? Hassan is awesome.
Lol get absolutely fucked. I hope it costs them a fortune.
The latest flashpoint is something called “distillation,”
Incest. It’s digital incest.
What are you doing, step-prompt
Describe the inside of this washing machine and how someone, not me, who is stuck in one could theoretically get out.
AI - Alabama Internets
Wait, they’re mad at innovation?
“No, no, that’s wrong! Just use our inefficient model like it was before…”
This is why open source/copyleft is preferable
“Fair use is only fair if we do it”
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This is how we know AI should be a collectivist project, one that isn’t owned by large corporations but is funded by taxes and developed in academies, and all IP derived from it falls into the public domain.
Besides which a lot of artists mind a lot less when their material is borrowed by a non-profit, or to serve a public works project. (There are exceptions. Disney is notoriously litigious about murals in nurseries.)
PS: Development of a robust public domain is the only reason that intellectual property should exist at all. Also it’s not property so much as a licensed temporary monopoly.
PSS: History has already shown us that people will invent stuff and do fabulous art simply by being allowed to live in a state other than desperation. Public welfare programs beget art booms. The most recent example of this was during the COVID-19 lockdown which came with extended unemployment and stimulus checks, resulting in the Great Resignation in which a lot of people turned their hobbies into something lucrative.
I agree. The worst part about GitHub training LLM’s on my FOSS code without permission for me is that they then keep the models to themselves. Like if you’re going to use all my code without permission, at least allow me to run the model locally.
My personal opinion is that all models trained on copyleft code should be open-weights, most FOSS licenses didn’t account for this specific possibility, but this is the only way to follow them in spirit.
This. Some day a court should declare all models trained on copyrighted data without permission to be public. Open weights, public domain, whatever. All of them, and you’re required to share them with the people whose data you used.
All models and all their output should be considered public property regardless, full stop
Ultimately, yes. If AI is going to take over all jobs, the profits from AI should benefit and therefore fund everybody. But that requires a different economic system that will take time to convince people it’s necessary.
But leveraging copyright law, that’s something that can be done right now.
Not only should the models be made open, their output should inherently be GPL license since it’s the only real way to avoid violating GPL (which they are doing now IMO).
Yeah it has to be open weight and free to use for everybody, with regulation to tag all AI output as generated so we know what is what.
The worst outcome would be if somehow all open weight AI models that can’t show their training data will be subject to some kind of tax or rent by AI / IP collection agencies, ultimately going to the plutocrats. That would be techno feudalism. Big corporations can afford to negotiate and pay license fees and often profit from cumbersome regulation too that prevents others from producing value. So the worst outcome is if we have robots doing all the work, and all the robot IP is owned by the techno-feudalists. And we can’t even use robots to help with subsistence farming because we can’t pay the expensive AI IP licenses.
One small problem: LLMs are mostly useless save for being slop generating machines. We should create solutions for already existing problems, not continuing trying to find problems for techbro “solutions” to solve.
I hope you’re right. Like Randall Munroe, I am terrified that they’re trying to fast-track their way to the swarms of killer robots phase.
I love this for them, I hope they eat eachother and choke on the bones.
I think I’ll start using the sentence “your intelligence seems artificial” as an insult
Huh, so it’s eating itself? Cool.
Sudden moment my profile picture is relevant!
More like it’s eating the shit from other things like itself. Which it will then turn into even worse shit that will be fed to others, and so on until society collapses because all our critical infrastructure has been converted to run on these things.
That dude can eat a dick.
At least the models like Qwen have open weight versions. It’s the same concept as distributing compiled binaries, though, whereas we really need true FOSS models where all of the code and training data are available under a permissive license. All of these models were trained on copyleft-licensed content, so all of it should be FOSS if the licenses were actually being respected. From that perspective, distillation attacks shouldn’t even be necessary and I couldn’t give two shits that there is no honor among thieves when the real thievery is that these models are closed source.
So far, we have exactly one of those
Oh, nice! I haven’t been able to find one because searching for “open source llm”, etc., always yields open weight LLMs instead of open source ones.
Honestly, I think that’s the only llm of its kind. The next closest thing is this
https://github.com/karpathy/nanochat
If you don’t mind something narrower (an expert system, sort of), I’m slowly coding something for myself here. It’s not ready yet (about half way done to initial release).
https://codeberg.org/BobbyLLM/picoGURU
Public facing docs are a bit of a mess at the moment (sorry; writing docs is boring AF; will probably be the last thing I tidy before official 1.0.0) and it’s not really runnable right now, but when done, the “source files” for this will be kiwix (off line Wikipedia), your own markdown notes and 30 or so trusted domains (user defined).
So it’s all either your own content or public domain aka open source fully. Code itself is AGPL-3.
Anyway, that’s the goal.
It is funny watching companies discover that data gravity works both ways. When scraping the web was innovation it was progress. When someone learns from their outputs it becomes theft. The legal lines still matter, but the irony is impossible to ignore, and this debate was always going to come full circle.
It just shows that these tech bro CEOs possess the interpersonal skills of a potato. This exact same dynamic plays out in every human interaction, this isn’t some AI exclusive thing. How you choose to act dictates how people will respond to you.
However because these idiots have barely anything in common with the rest of the human race this is actually new news to them.
