• sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    90·
    9 months ago

    I was so, so very close to directly calling jordanlund a shitlib after it was almost certainly him who mod deleted my comment, in my own thread, in .world, stating that, speaking from a historical standpoint, the only thing that stops fascists is bullets in their brains.

    He of course interpreted that as ‘advocating violence’, because … he is a shitlib.

    But instead, I composed myself and wrote a more eloquent explanation as to why my comment had been deleted… and, so far, at least that response hasn’t been deleted.

    Why not post to power tripping bastards?

    Because we already know the .world mod/admin team is a bunch of shit lib collaborators from how they acted when Luigi was framed for shooting some asshole who murdered tens of thousands of people by overseeing the denial of their healthcare.

    Sorry to rant but goddamnit am I on the exact same wavelength as this post right now.

    Jordan, if you read this, go fuck yourself and keep telling yourself Warren was a better choice than Bernie, you slimy rat fuck.

    • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      50·
      9 months ago

      Jordan probably is reading this, he loves scanning comments for people talking about him and then whining about it. Same for a few other common .world users.

      But man, Jordan literally banned one of my favorite users from a community because they caught Jodan lying about his poitions and documenting the fact the Dems actively did not care about the lives of brown people home and abroad and queer folk.

      .world is a shitlib encampment.

      • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
        9·
        9 months ago

        The other day I suggested there is a lack of self awareness amongst the more brigadier types and they’re still messaging me demanding what I meant by that. Like I posted this morning and within minutes I get a new message trying to go back into it.

        Some folks are just not equipped to operate outside of communities they don’t control and moderate.

      • Maeve@kbin.earth
        3·
        9 months ago

        I think I vaguely remember that. I’ve said elsewhere it’s to the point I’m beginning to wonder if that instance’s mods and admins didn’t have an agenda. Oddly enough, that was the first instance I tried to join and couldn’t ever get approval, and I was still very much more entrenched in shitlib indoctrination.

      • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        9·
        9 months ago

        I hereby repent before the supreme council of enlightened liberals for unintentionally using language which could possibly be interpreted as invoking an allegory which could possibly be interpreted as me advocating for, or suggesting the use, or evoking imagery of violence against furries, who are valid members of society that have for too long been unjustly forced out of public life.

        I thus willingly submit myself to be bound inside the no holds barred yiff pit for a duration not exceeding 24 hrs, whereby my latent fascist tendencies will be expunged from me, and I shall emerge, born again, as a more tolerant member of society.

    • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
      13·
      9 months ago

      I used to defend JordanLund when people called him a Zionist

      After his recent actions banning anti-zionist voices on WorldNews, banning Independent media that reports on the genocide, and banning pro-palestinian emancipatory slogans, it’s overwhelmingly obvious he is at the very least a Zionist Sympathizer

      He’s also terribly reactionary on many social issues

          • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            2·
            9 months ago

            Welp, didn’t realize/remember there was a rule against that, but at least your explanation as it stands still lets people roughly know what I said.

        • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
          3·
          9 months ago

          I find it concerning when anyone spends that much time online, I already feel like I do lol

          Being terminally online is terrible for mental health, and I think being devoid of actual people IRL makes ppl more reactionary

  • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    58·
    9 months ago

    I hate being that cringe guy in the comments posting FD quotes, but this one is such a banger

    Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress

  • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
    51·
    9 months ago

    But in condemning violence it would be an act of irresponsibility not to be as strong in condemning the conditions in our society that cause people to feel so angry that they have no alternative but to engage in riots. What we must see is that a riot is the language of the unheard.

    What is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last 10 or 12 years. It’s failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. It has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity.

    • MLK Jr
    • Wilco@lemm.eeEnglish
      15·
      9 months ago

      The lib politicians did not roll over to facism, they rolled over for money … for loosely regulated and barely looked at Super PAC donations and withdrawals. They rolled over for legalized corruption. Fascism is just the gift wrap that they had to take those presents in.

      This lady is kind of right. We are not likely to vote our way out of this.

        • Wilco@lemm.eeEnglish
          4·
          9 months ago

          That’s the point. It could have been anything the politicians and news media cooked up. They could have created a crazed religious movement, a hate filled campaign against another country, they could attack another religion … except MAGA went “fuck it” and checked “All of the Above”.

          It’s not about the message. Tyranny does not thrive in peace. It is about directing the weak willed portion of the population that they have complete control over.

      • goferking (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
        6·
        9 months ago

        Idk, they seem okay with it as long as they’re the ones in control.

        Just look at their responses to the election it’s not that we ran an unpopular candidate and gop lite policies it’s because we didn’t go far enough to the right!

        • Wilco@lemm.eeEnglish
          2·
          9 months ago

          Agreed. I wonder if the Dem/Rep political parties are about to flip and trade conservative/liberal policies again.

            • Wilco@lemm.eeEnglish
              1·
              9 months ago

              I dont think they would do that, it would be harder to trade wins.

            • grue@lemmy.world
              1·
              9 months ago

              That’s not how the American political system works. Parties have changed ideology or collapsed and been replaced with new ones, but there’s always only two major parties.

      • Maeve@kbin.earth
        2·
        9 months ago

        The lib politicians did not roll over to facism, they rolled over for money

        Isn’t that fascism?

    • FreakinSteve@lemmy.world
      7·
      9 months ago

      Their “plan” is just push back juuust enough to make you calm down and then they’ll help entrench Nazism further.

      • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        9 months ago

        Neolibs are already super eager to work with the nazi elon. They want to follow him to the right like they did with netanyahu and manchin and lieberman.

    • Maeve@kbin.earth
      2·
      9 months ago

      We can’t help it, we need more theory according to one post, but critical reading and critical thinking are hard, especially when even secondary school reading comprehension has abysmal standards. I read better than most I know and struggle with it.

  • Arkhive (they/she)
    18·
    9 months ago

    I had this exact convo with a friend recently. Peaceful protest can work against a government with a conscious conscience. The US gov’t has consistently shown to not have a conscious conscience. My local organizers don’t really seem to get this, which just means they, and many of the general citizens they direct, will be underprepared for the conflict that will almost inevitably arise.

  • barsoap@lemm.ee
    17·
    9 months ago

    There’s a much better reason to not be violent: So that you can get more people onto the streets. Figures that most people don’t fancy dodging burning trash cans and you want everybody on the streets, not just your polycule. People need to feel like they’re safe at the protest, the only danger there is is coming from the state.

    • itslilith
      35·
      9 months ago

      That’s a nice argument when the cops are not yet shooting random passerbys with rubber bullets and teargas. People don’t stay home because they’re afraid of other protestors.

        • Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world
          6·
          9 months ago

          I hope you’re not sincerely avoiding protests because of an ex. I can’t laugh about exes and bad sex when I live in fear every day that ICE might snatch my partner off the street.

          It’s not a bad joke on its own, it’s just in poor taste considering the state of things. The fear of Trump’s dictatorship far outweighs the fear of running into even my most abusive ex.

            • Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world
              1·
              9 months ago

              That’s what you take away here? That I’m some privileged, humorless bigot that’s never “been through shit”?

              You gathered that from one comment. I guess all the 900-ish comments I’ve made here on Lemmy, many of which discuss my experiences with “shit” like disabilities, homelessness, and sexism just don’t factor in. I make no secret of my struggles, past and present, and I genuinely fear my partner getting kidnapped and tortured in El Salvador. I was born with some kinds of targets already on my back, but under this administration, my partner’s targets shine brighter than mine.

              Of course, I didn’t expect you to know any of that, in the same way I wouldn’t expect you to know much of anything about a stranger after one interaction with them.

              But it doesn’t matter, as I can see I’m onboard the Lemmy Downvote train. So choo-choo, motherfuckers.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
        1·
        9 months ago

        There’s a massive fucking vibe difference between a crowd taking cover behind whatever is at hand and one setting fire to shit and throwing back stones is all I’m saying. Be the former vibe. Stones aren’t going to stop them. Assault rifles and tanks wouldn’t stop them. Pining for escalation hands them excuses on a platter for no strategic gain whatsoever, it’s pissing in the wind. The only law you should be breaking is refusing to follow a dispersal order, or at least take your sweet time with it, everything else is fedposting.

        • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          12·
          9 months ago

          The only law you should be breaking is refusing to follow a dispersal order

          And that’s the one they point to as an excuse to start shooting, you shitlib.

          They don’t need an excuse. They will escalate it long before anyone in the street does. It’s also wild to me that ‘throwing stones’ is somehow seen as more violent than literal fucking munitions and chemical weapons. “Just stand there and let them shoot at you” is quite a take from someone who has clearly never been shot at by fascists in riot gear.

          If this were an ordinary liberal riot guard we might be able to count on deescalation, but as libs have so been eager to point out when votemaxxing online, this isn’t an ordinary liberal riot guard. Either bend over and spread for the next phase of american fascist policing or shut the fuck up about how people are choosing to resist it. Communities are fighting against unaccountable and un-identifiable gestapo pigs blackbagging innocent children - don’t concern troll us about deescalation.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
            2·
            9 months ago

            They don’t need an excuse.

            To shoot? No. To justify themselves in the media, in the public eye? Yes.

            It’s also wild to me that ‘throwing stones’ is somehow seen as more violent than literal fucking munitions and chemical weapons.

            It’s not. That’s as much a shitlib take as “police violence isn’t violence because it’s state violence”.

            But it’s the perception that exists among the population, you’re not going to change it by throwing stones.

            Communities are fighting against unaccountable and un-identifiable gestapo pigs blackbagging innocent children

            You know what people did to protect Jews from the Gestapo? Hide them. You can’t protect them by throwing stones for the simple reason that police dgaf when they’re hit by stones, they’ll just blackbag you alongside.

            Look there’s exactly one thing I’m saying here: Act strategically. I’m not arguing against violence because it’s evil – at most, violence is unaesthetic. I’m arguing against it because, unless you start an actual insurrection with plans to take on and take out the military, it’s ineffective. Just because your pigs are worse than what we’re dealing with over here doesn’t mean that lashing out at them suddenly becomes good praxis. You’re there to have an effect, not to blow off steam.

            • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              6·
              9 months ago

              To justify themselves in the media, in the public eye? Yes.

              No they don’t. Just look at how often they use footage from completely unrelated events in their coverage. Anyone with even a slight predilection against protestors or a law enforcement bias will accept any willful misrepresentation as ‘aesthetic’ and condemn the whole group regardless.

              But it’s the perception that exists among the population, you’re not going to change it by throwing stones.

              Nothing the protestors actually do will move the needle - it’s the extreme overreaction of the fed that will.

              You know what people did to protect Jews from the Gestapo? Hide them.

              Only after the Nazis had actually banned extra-party protests and clamped down on all opposition, and only after they had already carted away several million jews and political opponents off to concentration camps. You want to wait that long do something? Be my guest.

              I’m arguing against it because, unless you start an actual insurrection with plans to take on and take out the military, it’s ineffective.

              The goal of most rebellions isn’t to take control of the reigns of power - the goal is to make it so costly to suppress that the state is forced to cut their loss, or else risk the resistance spreading. There is no version of resisting a fascist movement in the US that involves armed militias overpowering federal forces. Liberals are desperate to maintain the illusion of democracy by simply resisting at the fringes - if they don’t piss Trump off too much, then maybe there will still be enough democracy left for them to vote him away without any real conflict! What a wonderful fantasy that is.

              Liberals need to pick a lane - either trump is a dictator who must be removed before he solidifies his hold on power, or we need to conduct ourselves until the midterms so that we can vote our way out. It can’t be both.

              • barsoap@lemm.ee
                2·
                9 months ago

                You want to wait that long do something? Be my guest.

                Who said anything about waiting? Stop posting and organise that shit. Don’t look at me I’m on the other side of the Atlantic.

                Nothing the protestors actually do will move the needle - it’s the extreme overreaction of the fed that will.

                Please look up opinion polling after the Kent State Massacre: It took years for public opinion to shift away from “the National Guard did nothing wrong”. For what you say to occur the overreaction has to not just be extreme, it also has to be obvious – like the Aussie journalist which got shot, that’s a good video. Things don’t become more obviously an overreaction when cars are burning and shopfronts are deglassed.

                Liberals need to pick a lane - either trump is a dictator who must be removed before he solidifies his hold on power, or we need to conduct ourselves until the midterms so that we can vote our way out.

                I wouldn’t argue for either. Both are unrealistic for various reasons and the latter isn’t a good in itself. What you want to do is obstruct the fuck out the feds so they fall on their face, that’s best done on a level of state and lower administrations. California isn’t cooperating with ICE so make sure to have the state’s back. Yes, I, an anarchist is saying “have the state’s back”, fascism is too large a threat to risk over feelings of disgust regarding liberal democracy. Last thing you want is the Governor seeing himself in a situation where he has to ask the feds to intervene to keep (a semblance of) order instead of being able to say “fuck off feds we got this”.

                • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                  3·
                  9 months ago

                  Stop posting and organise that shit.

                  Most of us do both.

                  For what you say to occur the overreaction has to not just be extreme, it also has to be obvious – like the Aussie journalist which got shot, that’s a good video.

                  Yup, and with any luck Trump will continue with the lack of subtlety.

                  Things don’t become more obviously an overreaction when cars are burning and shopfronts are deglassed.

                  Those things happen every day in the US. Hell, some sports fans will flip cars after a moderately good football game. Corporatized media will find footage of those things regardless of what the actual protestors are doing, and implicate them with it. Even when counterprotestors are actually assaulting peaceful protestors, Fox news and their many subsidiary channels will find the one shot with an angry exchange that paints the picture and use it to implicate the entire movement. And when they do, liberals will be right there to wag their fingers.

                  The good news is that Trump is such a dipshit that he’ll send in fucking tanks for just about any goddamned reason, and those are really fucking hard to hide and even harder to justify with a few broken windows and lots of unarmed protestors.

                  What you want to do is obstruct the fuck out the feds so they fall on their face, that’s best done on a level of state and lower administrations

                  Yea, this is what i’m referring to by saying ‘middling around the fringes’. There is no amount of legalese that will slow down an actual authoritarian. You can’t run around screaming that he’s going to fucking end democracy and then strategize on how to bury him in legal threats. Either he’s a dictator or he can be obstructed by judicial paperwork. You can’t have a dictator that politely complies with the judiciary, that’s what makes them a dictator.

                  This is how liberals end up collaborating with fascists: they are so uncomfortable with extralegal resistance that they delude themselves into a belief that working within the structures that are actively being dismantled is the ‘only realistic way’ to resist against it. What happens when we get to the ‘outlawing of rival political parties’ part of fascism? We’ve already crossed over the ‘no due process for criminals’ line, how many more core democratic foundations do we have to lose before it’s game over?

                  Not everyone can or should be in black bloc sabotaging ICE vehicles, but pretending as if the usual checks and balances are still functioning is willful ignorance.

    • FlyingCircus@lemmy.world
      16·
      9 months ago

      People usually only remember part of Thomas Jefferson’s quote: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of tyrants.”

      The full thing goes “The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

      This is class warfare. We all need to start getting used to the fact that many of us patriots are going to die fighting this fascist machine.

  • Habahnow@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    17·
    9 months ago

    Feel like they’re ignoring the fact that these massive protests are a sign of contention and the point is to not devolve into complete violence. We do need to make it harder for him to convince others that we are not unruly people, but people protesting actual grievances.

  • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de
    16·
    9 months ago

    Peaceful protest or “sitting it out” is when you have hope to last longer than the current crisis.

    The current crisis, at least in the US, is not going to vanish that quickly. The real crisis is the dropping wages, and that’s not gonna revert much. Socialism or barbarism!

    • Derpgon@programming.dev
      8·
      9 months ago

      The moment the inconvenience of jail or ending up dying during an insurrection is better than the actual situation, shit is gonna spiral. People will riot violently, government is gonna fuck with the lives of folks who didn’t, more will join, more will get fucked, and repeat until Donnie is no more.

      • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de
        1·
        8 months ago

        The moment the inconvenience of jail or ending up dying during an insurrection is better than the actual situation, shit is gonna spiral.

        That is a sentiment that i kinda hear many people say these days …

  • fodor@lemmy.zip
    14·
    9 months ago

    Well yeah. It’s possible for peaceful protests to work, but let’s look at history. In reality, the pigs are going to get violent regardless of what anyone does, the national guard will be called out and they’re going to use tear gas because their bosses want them to, and despite the fear of injury or death, large groups of people will keep working to make things better.

    This is guaranteed to occur. For good or bad, whatever, it will happen. So let’s stop worrying about certain outcomes and move our focus to the uncertain things.