If you find one, you find a group cos like attracts attracts like.
Rapists know they’d be punished and/or shunned if they spoke of their crimes, so they don’t talk about it.
Victims on the other hand are encouraged to seek help; talking through the trauma as a means of coping and healing.
It only makes sense the victim would be more commonly known about than the offender.
On top of that; a rapist is more likely to have created multiple victims, it’s not just a 1:1 comparison.
This is the most logical conclusion.
Although I will say, I’ve met people that openly admitted to terrible behavior. Not rape, but very shitty things nontheless.
And when I hear someone admit to shitty behavior, I tend to distance myself from them long before they get to the point of admitting rape or any other form of SA.
Exactly, that’s why we have to end the punitive and carceral ‘justice’ system that doesn’t work and move to a restorative and transformative justice system instead.
This would lead to less harm over time as it would not only remove the conditions that make people fear speaking out about their abuse, but also lead to teaching people not to abuse in the first place.
The reason why such things happen is because of abuse growing up and a lack of education on how to go about having good relationships with others, gender roles and toxic relationships with those who are supposed to care for us is a huge problem and the current system is incapable of dealing with, catching and changing these problems because they simply put do not wish the status quo to change, it benefits them.
If the power in society was not put with ‘parents’ and allowed communities to catch, educate and modify such behaviour and remove children from such situations over time it would lower such problems. The current system does not seek to deal with the root causes, it only punishes long after any such harm and bad lessons have been taught which clearly does not work.
That’s why we need restorative and transformative justice to remove the core power dynamics in relationships and throughout society which lead to such things, it wouldn’t be overnight, but then the current system clearly doesn’t know how to nor does it wish to get rid of these things and so it isn’t ever going to deal with them.
The only proper way to deal with a rapist, is they must be removed from society, by any means necessary. Certain groups cannot be tolerated, no matter how forgiving a society.
Disagree.
You think rape is forgivable?
I think that’s up to the victim/survivor.
I do not think that reducing it down to always throw the person out no matter what is a good solution. I think punishment to that degree should always be a last resort, and we should work on dealing with the systems that allow such things to happen and give such people therapy, and make sure the variables such as entitlement, the patriarchy, and abuse etc do not happen.
We should give people the emotional tools to deal with rejection and safe people/spaces they can go to without judgement if they have done things or want to do things so they can work through it.
At the same time I believe we should also give victims/survivors (or potential ones) more control and power in this system so they can fight such people off and not be punished for it.
My goal and desire is for a society where people are taught not to do such things in the first place and gave the ability to deal with no etc. However, in the mean time it’s clear a transition is needed and punishing and locking people up clearly does not prevent it, so let’s try something better which might have a chance of reducing and eventually eliminating such actions.
I wish you luck with that then. It’s more likely for society to go in the direction of harsh punishments for lesser things instead.
Thank you. Yeah, it’ll be a long road full of twists and turns, but we’ll get there eventually.
Because the same few guys are raping a lot of different women.
Because most non-rapist guys choose not to associate with predatory guys, while the latter’s victims didn’t have a choice in the matter.
Because most non-rapist guys choose not to associate with predatory guys
That explains a lot. A guy in my high school touched a girl’s breast. We ostracised him then he went to another school and never heard from again.
It bothers me that anyone pointing to the majority of men who are not rapists, is getting branded as a rape apologist.
As a guy, I can say with certainty that I’ve never been involved in, nor known about anyone who was the perpetrator of rape.
I firmly believe that the perpetrators, specifically the male perpetrators of rape, if they tell anyone, they say it as a regular sexual encounter. Ladies, we don’t go into details taking about who did what in the bedroom. The most I’ve ever heard from any guy about their sexual exploits, is that they happened “I banged her” (or similar), and sometimes a quip about the experience or the person, eg: “it was great” or “she’s a freak (in bed)” or similar.
The reason we don’t know that the people we know are rapists, is because they’re not coming out and telling us about it. I promise, if they did, they wouldn’t be free for long. They’d either end up in jail, or beaten bloody by the majority of us (or worse).
Generally we just don’t say much about what happens in the bedroom, to eachother.
Agreed.
I am a man and I am a victim of repeated child sexual abuse. It has broken me forever. While I don’t feel comfortable explaining what effects it had on me, let’s say that I’ll never be a normal functioning person because of what was done to me.
To what you said I would like to add that some of us are victims too and being generalized and then labeled as rapists or apologists is so fucking triggering, it’s actually madening. The idea of being associated with my perpetrator is intolerable.
I get it that sexual misconducts are more prevalent in men, but something like 1 in 6 boys will experience some sort of sexual abuse. That is a shitton of victims being labeled as rapist apologists.
Anyways, like you, I think we can have this discussion without aggressively accusing all members of a given gender.
Especially lately with all the Epstein stuff being discussed, I’m sure I’m not the only one feeling trapped in a constant spiral of flashbacks and stuck in a non-stop dissociated state especially that there is no accountability in sight.
In any cases, let’s have compassion for all the victims no matter their gender or sex and let’s focus our anger toward the abusers.
I don’t think it’s possible for me to agree with you more.
I will only add the I empathize with you and all of the other victims regardless of gender. Please know that you are valued for who you are, not what has happened to you.
Be well.
You didn’t have to tell us you are a man, it was obvious. What you just did is provide a great example of why we need better education on gender based and sexual violence.
Firstly, there is almost a complete certainty that you know a rapist and may even be friendly with one. The overwhelming majority of sexual violence perpetrators are men and that violence is facilitated through the nuclear family model and social ostricization of men who challenge rape culture.
I have had multiple women in different generations of my family disclose sexual violence from men beloved by dozens of people who were none the wiser. I have sat at tables where men make jokes about getting women drunk on purpose like it doesn’t reflect lived experiences only for other men to laugh along enthusiastically or nervously. I have been in classes where men discuss harassing women in the workplace without it being challenged. I could not name the amount of friends I’ve lost when I challenge them on their views, all of them have been men. Every one of those personal experiences reflects statistical data we have on sexual violence rates and rape culture reproduction.
You seem to have this fantasy that rapists are men who jump out of the darkness to prey on strangers, but they’re your friends and family who prey on those you know. They do talk about it, all the time. Whether they’re talking about the act of rape or why rape is okay, they talk about it. You cannot insulate yourself from this culture without abandoning the responsibility to challenge it.
When you say shit like, “not all men,” you’re admitting to an insecurity you have about the potential injustice of rape accusations and the association between manhood and sexual violence. Too bad, you’re in it and have to choose to challenge it or continue to participate through inaction. The fear of false rape accusations is almost completely unfounded in a world where women face consequences for reporting and convictions of sexual assault are so difficult to get. False convictions are so statistically rare and acting like they arent shows that you value your comfort more than believing victims. Men are the vast majority of rapists and most women have experienced gender based or sexual violence at one point in their lives. As long as they exist in a culture where that violence will most likely come from men and most men do not challenge it, manhood will be associated with sexual violence. When you say that if a cartoon rapist should ever appear you’ll give’em a wollop, you’re subscribing to an imagination of sexual violence that obscures the reality of its frequency and potential vectors. You’re telling the women around you that you do not care about what they experience and only think of rape as a vector for you to fulfill the masculine fantasy of violently punishing a rapist to protect the poor, helpless women.
This is all of course ignoring your fundamental misunderstanding of what rape is when you discuss it as though it’s a form of sex. There is no discussion to be had about whether men kiss and tell about rape because rape is not sex. It is about violence and power. It happens at high rates in highly patriarchal societies exactly because of the brutal hierarchy of power that must be maintained for that patriarchy to exist.
I don’t care if most men don’t rape, most rapists are men and the greatest resistance we get to challenging rape culture is from men. If that bothers you, learn.
Congratulations! You just alienated a fuckton of potential allies with that speech. No, most of us don’t feel any kind of group obligation. As a matter of fact, we are sick and tired of being told by society “fix this, fix that”.
So now, most of us are a sort of zen nihilist. We give a shit, sometimes.
Username suggests this is satirical but comment history is inconsistent with that theme.
Just in case: “Alienating” people who are already not interested enough to change isn’t a loss. You don’t focus on reaching those people, you make them too uncomfortable to be vocal. It’s why eco activists don’t give a shit if a boomer is mad about them blocking traffic, their goal is to make sure the boomer can’t drive home in comfort. Comfortable people are the lifeblood of this system.
The rest I don’t think people will care about enough to respond to like, yeah conservative and liberal men are caged by individualism we all know that already and they never shut up about it.
Edit: i regret not making a joke about the one guy who was about to become a feminist sex-activist and assassinate Donald Trump but saw the meanie queer online say that men need to be better and then he just gave it all up and signed up for rape school.
My experience tells me arguing here isn’t worth it.
Now THAT seems satirical, only a fool would think internet arguments aren’t productive…
You are throwing stray shots, alienating everyone of a certain gender by essentially accusing them of being tolerant of rapists. Also going out of your way to cast as large of a net as possible, by making a vague statement about violence being rape.
The people who are reading this are strangers, and not buddy bud with you. They have their job, their responsibilities, their own worries.
Either you are unreasonable on purpose, or baiting. Either way, it’s not worth it for me to argue when I have my own worries and male SH to deal with in the morning.
It’s not worth it.
Times like this, remind me of the boy who cried wolf.
Oh no, a potential feminist sex-activist saw the meanie queer online and will no longer assassinate Donald Trump. Why did I have to be such a meanie oooh the hubris and righteous fury!!
Edit: lookit that i got to make the joke. Seriously though, this makes men sound more fragile than I ever presented them.
congrats on not reading their comment
You guys hate it when people can read you beyond your control.
Edit: people can see who you are even if you don’t want them to. Many of you are too uncritical about your values to hide them so you say them plain without even realizing.
You haven’t read me at all. I stopped reading your reply when you started making false assumptions about me, on opinions and subjects I didn’t even mention.
You need to assume less and listen more.
Given your propensity to defend the victims of rape, I would hope you at least listen to them rather than make wild assumptions about their lived experiences.
Do not presume to know me. Do not put words in my mouth.
tldr
It bothers me that anyone has ould bother to point out not all men are rapists. We aren’t talking about or to you. Why do you feel the need to say something that everyone knows?
Its because on some level, these people know that people like them have done bad shit and they want to defend themselves.
It ain’t about you dickhead.
But it is. Because I see time and time again in the comments here that if I’m male, I’m either an apologist, or a rapist. This thread has disenfranchised an entire gender.
I have all the empathy in the world for victims. I am not one of them, nor am I a perpetrator. I would, quite readily, turn in any person I know if they were a self admitted rapist. Moreover, I would entrap them by recording their confession, and submit it as evidence against them.
I don’t wish to diminish the point made in the OP, it’s important to recognize the victims of rape. The fact is, the perpetrators are not exactly bragging about raping someone, so they don’t exactly stand out. If they did, they wouldn’t remain a free person.
I get the point in the OP, but the comments here have been extremely toxic, branding every man who replies as either a rapist or an apologist.
It’s disgusting that someone would regard an entire gender as one, or the other. Many of us don’t know if we even know anyone who has committed the crime, and never thought about it beyond the fact that it’s a bad thing to happen… These bystanders are now apologists?
Your victim complex is massive my guy. The reason people shit on you for saying this is because the act of saying it implies it needs to be said. You don’t even read your criticism but you assume it isn’t constructive because you imagine it isn’t.
Once again because obviously you don’t like reading: It does not fucking matter if most men aren’t rapists when overwhelmingly most rapists are men and most men do not challenge rape culture. That does make most men dangerous for women. Reconcile that with your experiences.
Right now, you are an example of how men make themselves a problem by not even considering they’re wrong because they’re insecure about being a man. Nobody is fucking saying men don’t get victimized, they are correctly identifying that nearly 100% of cases of sexual violence is directed at women and the vast majority of men are complacent in a culture that perpetuates that violence. Making it about you because you don’t like the association of manhood with sexual violence is in fact detrimental to discourses that seek to acknowledge sexual violence at all.
You DENSE mother fucker.
You realize the image implies men covering up for other men right?
Do you think men just talk to each other about all the felonies they committed?
Then stop saying all men are rapists. Stop treating men like theyre all rapists. Stop implying that if I knew my friend was a rapist, he would still be breathing.
I hate rapists as much as everyone else, so why is it constantly being portrayed as though I’m evil and deserve to be treated as a danger just because im a guy?
This sign exclusively implies that men cover for other men. I do not and would not cover for a rapist. Theres a valid point to be made about men and rape, and this sign completely misses it.
No one but you has brought to this conversation the concept that “All men are rapists” and it’s confounding that you don’t understand how much of a stereotype you’re being coming into a women’s space to shout “not all men”.
It’s also a complete misunderstanding of the point women are making there. We don’t believe that every single man is a rapist. Society has this regressive belief that a rapist is always going to be a nasty, creepy, criminal, awful man and that it would be completely obvious to any bystander that there’s something wrong with this dude and to stay away. But that just isn’t the case. So, it’s a warning to women that any man could be a rapist. Even if they’re a respected member of their community, a judge, a politician, a movie producer, etc.
The other thing is the sign is using the word rapist here, but there are also many, many, many other forms of sexual assault, abuse and harassment and I can almost guarantee that you and most men have excused something in the past. My state actually made an amazing PSA about this a few years back now. Because there are so many acts that make women scared, or uncomfortable, that so many men just pretend doesn’t happen.
I’d also like to point out that it’s super ironic that you don’t seem to understand the fallacy of your own hubris. You’ve walked into an explicitly women’s space, to yell at women, about how it’s “Not All Men”, without consent. Maybe you and the other men in this thread should sit with that for a bit?
We already know the truth about this guy. Just block him.
Can you please explain your chain of logic here?
RAINN says only 3% of men commit it.
So I’d say that’s why most men don’t know a rapist.
Determined how?
I can’t imagine that’s a survey that’d be filled out honestly…
Yeah I’m extremely sceptical of any survey that relies on self-reporting. Especially when you were admitting to a crime.
What a crap methodology.
Only? That’s a disturbingly large percentage imo, it’s around 1 in 33. Think of how many male friends, relatives, colleagues, and other acquaintances you’ve had in your life, it’s likely way higher than that. We all likely know rapists, we just don’t realise exactly who they are.
Yes, and not every rapist is a serial rapist who goes around preying on everyone he can get his hands on. I think those guys are a minority within a minority. More commonly may be guys who did it once and later regretted it and never did it again, or in between (went through a phase in college but later got married and settled down).
There’s also the fucked up part where people can rape without understanding. I was raped by my high school boyfriend, and I didn’t view it as rape until I got further education in college. I had been under the impression that consenting to sex meant I was consenting to all sex acts and thought I couldn’t revoke my consent.
The church literally taught this fucked up version of consent to children.
I can “know” a hundred men and I probably know a rapist, but I don’t know that they’re a rapist.
If you’re getting it from here, I think you misread it. It says that 3% of men have experienced attempted/completed rape, not done it themselves. This study suggests that 10% of men commit it in college though, which would be worse. Most of them aren’t serial rapists though and hopefully feel guilt, so my guess is that they wouldn’t want to admit it to anyone that knows them
Jesus Christ 3% of men are rapists? That’s horrifyingly high. I knew I was terrified of men but I wasn’t scared enough.
Have been + are, I think.
Probably doesn’t improve your feeling of safety…
If 1 in 100 men is a rapist, then he can rape a lot more women than 1 in 100. Very few people are responsible for most occasions, similarly with divorces, etc.
Also why would anyone admit to being a rapist?
No, the rate is around 30% of men have engaged in sexually aggressive behavior. It is endemic in our society hence why the majority of women have been sexually assaulted in their lifetime.
What’s the definition of sexually aggressive behavior? I’m not doubting this statistic but it doesn’t sound like it’s measuring the same thing here.
A range of actions that involve the use of force, coercion, or manipulation to engage in sexual activity without the victim’s consent. In other words, rape.
Do you have a link to where you got this from?
“White and Smith (in press) surveyed three cohorts of men across 4 years of college. By the end of the study, 14% had reported committing attempted or completed rape and 34% had reported at least one act of sexual assault perpetration.”
"Almost a quarter (24.5%) of these men acknowledged committing an act since the age of 14 that met standard legal definitions of attempted or completed rape; an additional 39% had committed another type of sexual assault involving forced sexual contact or verbal coercion. "
That is pretty insane actually. I’d still like to read the whole article if it’s available somewhere. Thanks.
It is scientific journal stuff, pretty dry read honestly. You can find all this with Google search still. Cheers!
This is insultingly untrue
Sure, whatever a bunch of rape apologist males say.
If you actually think nearly a third of all men are rapists, you need psychiatric help. That is literally insane.
Well the world is insane then. Every women I have got to know in my life has been sexually assaulted including my mother, wife, and daughters. It is endemic in our society.
Thirty percent is actually a low estimate. In some studies almost forty percent of college males admit to using some form of coercion and ignoring consent. Fifteen percent of these would be considered rape by the laws of their jurisdictions.
Keep in mind these studies relied on people being honest so the actual numbers are much higher. There is also a huge disparity between sexual assault and sexual assault arrests and convictions.
Less than 4% of reported sexual assault end in a conviction. So that means there are a shit ton of people who will never face any consequences for what they did. Furthermore this does not even count all the sexual assaults that are not reported.
It is estimated only one third of sexual assaults are even reported. This is due to the stigma women face for reporting. Many don’t report because it is someone close to them and they are afraid. The ones that do report are often not taken seriously and dismissed without a report even filed.
I have personally witnessed this when I saw a trooper talk my sixteen year old babysitter out of pressing rape charges because the boy was the son of a city cop.
I am also a social worker by trade and I have worked for social service agencies like child welfare. I can confirm in my professional experience that sexual assault is an epidemic in our society
I have also worked with adult sexual offenders in the jail and through reentry programs. I know what it takes to bring a rapist back into the community. So don’t even play that I am crazy.
Do you have a source for the number because it seems entirely made up.
“White and Smith (in press) surveyed three cohorts of men across 4 years of college. By the end of the study, 14% had reported committing attempted or completed rape and 34% had reported at least one act of sexual assault perpetration.”
"Almost a quarter (24.5%) of these men acknowledged committing an act since the age of 14 that met standard legal definitions of attempted or completed rape; an additional 39% had committed another type of sexual assault involving forced sexual contact or verbal coercion. "
And the link to that study is where?
It is multiple studies, two different quotes.
Stop trying to downplay rape by calling it “sexually aggressive behaviour”, you rape apologist.
This is Witches versus Patriarchy not White Male Rape Apologist vs. Reality. Read the fucking room.
Says the person refusing to provide the source despite the fact that you presumably have it in front of you. Assuming you’re not making it up.
“White and Smith (in press) surveyed three cohorts of men across 4 years of college. By the end of the study, 14% had reported committing attempted or completed rape and 34% had reported at least one act of sexual assault perpetration.”
"Almost a quarter (24.5%) of these men acknowledged committing an act since the age of 14 that met standard legal definitions of attempted or completed rape; an additional 39% had committed another type of sexual assault involving forced sexual contact or verbal coercion. "
You seem to be such a nice person.
Please stop trying to help, it just makes it worse.
… What does 30% of men have engaged in sexually aggressive behaviour mean?
Like it’s been a long long long tradition that women predominantly prefer to be “chased” and expect men to be aggressive.
30% isn’t a large number, that represents about 15% of the global population about 600 million people out of 8 billion approximately
I think you might want to rethink how you express your argument here because I don’t think this is what you are trying to communicate.
Again, what do you really mean when you use the term sexually aggressive?
Who tf would go around admitting to serious crimes that’ll get you shunned from most circles?
Also, I’m going to assume most rapists are serial rapists.
Exactly why we need to rethink how we deal with this kind of thing.
I am a man. I do not know the answer to this question and it’s fucking disturbing.
Edit: I spent 30 more seconds thinking about it and realized that victims who speak are heard, but almost no perpetrator thinks they’re doing anything wrong.
yeah… also male here. i… never really thought about this. if i dont know any rapists, that means i probably do know rapists that i dont know are rapists.
well fuck.
Nah unlikely. Rape is mostly a corruption issue i think, like sex trafficking.
This study of 12600 college students indicates that 87% of rape was committed by serial rapists , and 46% is committed by individuals who have committed 10+ rapes. overall 5% of surveyed students admitted to some form of rape while under the influence of alcohol, but 20% of women and 7% of men report being raped in the past.
The thing about a serial rapist - they must have some means of keeping women from reporting them, or getting away with it repeatably.
These people tend to use dogwhistles and form cliques, and once one gets into a position of power they get all their buddies up too to protect one another.
Letcher county is an example of a ring that got busted open recently. The rural towns judge and deputy and their buddies basically threatened and coerced underage girls and their families into fucking them and attending diddy parties. The sheriff found his daughters number in the judges phone and shot him.
Police do this regularly too in the USA, some places are better than others but the whole brotherhood and solidarity shit is basically their dogwhistle saying ‘we commit crime and cover for eachother.’ The louder they say it the worse they are. So naturally they attract rapists and murderers to join them, and fire out anyone that may blow the whistle on em.
Its the same thing with weinstein, epstein, diddy, in the military, and probably trump with the republican party. A ringleader gets some power, grows their sphere of influence and uses it to gate opportunity or threaten women into sex acts. Rinse and repeat for decades and decades and you get a very small percent of people spreading stds like theyre halloween candies.
And once people are in theres no getting out. Thats why epstein and diddy film everything, blackmail.
Police do this regularly too in the USA
Military too. Base towns are full of victims and systems that protect rapists. Don’t go to Destin…
Out of all the men you’ve known, yes you will have known some. But like attracts like so IME they only hang round with other abusers
It’s really not. If a rapist rapes several women, there’s a 1xN distribution. Then they think they did nothing wrong, so they won’t mention they raped someone, but that they had some fun with someone, if you don’t know them well you might think they meant they had a date which what normal people do.
So, less perpetrators than victims and perpetrators either don’t think they did it or they know and don’t say it. It’s normal for regular men not to know. I’m a man and I know of victims, not perpetrators.
This is the problem with the entire claim. Of course most men don’t know rapists, in the same way that I don’t know most jewel thieves, I assume they don’t admit it to me.
There is one guy who I am highly suspicious of, but I have zero actual evidence other than the fact he’s a really creepy dude. But I can hardly go to the police with that can I. So maybe I know one possible rapist.
Also male. Any convicted rapist I’ve heard of says it was consensual.
Did you mean convicted? If not I’m not sure how convinced makes sense here.
Dang it!
Thanks for clarifying/correcting, I was genuinely confused.
I’m dyslexic so I don’t see errors. Especially when auto correct is on.
Understandable, I have my own learning difficulties, so I understand. I also grew up with dyslexic people, so I get it.
So, this is a fun one:
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A rapist often has more than one victim.
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Someone who disclosed to one person may well have disclosed to many.
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Rapists tend not to self-disclose.
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The definition of rape is badly established between both parties (it’s an absolute minefield).
What you end up with is lots of small factors giving the illusion of a higher frequency by counting the same predator twice among women, and you also have factors that may cause predators not to be counted by men giving the illusion of a lower frequency.
The definition of rape is badly established between both parties
Well, you had me right up to this point. But the “how was I supposed to know?” shit is consistently said by the worst creeps.
You just reaffirmed what they said.
There are rapists that don’t think it’s rape.
It is indeed, your point?
My reply was to answer the question asked, not to take a moral stance.
The pawblem is that it’s not just the worst creeps though. There are plenty of men, and even some women, who will say it’s not rape if:
- She didn’t say no
- She’s a sex worker
- They’re married
- He stealths (even if they agree that’s wrong, calling it rape seems to be “taking it too far” for many)
There are plenty more examples I can think of but these are the most common in my opinion. Maybe you can make the argument that people that don’t see these as rape are also the “worst creeps”. However, it still follows OC’s point that the definition isn’t universal in a way where less men will know a rapist then women.
I was in the process of writing a long response that almost completely mirrored your top 2.
- 1 to many
- Self reporting
I added a clustering or self-filtering problem, basically rapists likely don’t have a lot of friends so that’s why guys would necessarily know a rapist.
And I hadn’t even considered your last point but it is indeed a valid one, although it really shouldn’t be all that different.
It definitely shouldn’t, but out there is a man who thinks torturing consent out of someone isn’t rape, and a woman who thinks refusing to marry after sex is rape.
Between those two extremes (and beyond them!) is every shade of definition, and the lines vary by nation and culture. This is not a statement condoning this, it is a sad one of fact.
(Edit, even in this very thread is someone who thinks rape is defined by not agreeing with them!)
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deleted by creator
Man here as well. I was sexually assaulted at work. Company did nothing but I did spend some time in a mental ward due to having panic attacks coming back into the office.
Assaulter was a man, never got fired. I was kinda told to deal with it.
I don’t think I’m friends with any rapists but it’s hard to tell. I had a friend that gets like a large number of hits on Tinder and basically hooks up really often with a new chick. One day, he described how he treated one of his girls that he wanted to settle down with, I was a bit horrified. He was saying things like, “she really thought she was at my level, I had to tell her I was number one in this relationship”, “I had to separate her from her friends they were getting on my nerves”. I was like … oh shit, this guy’s a possible abuser. I just kinda stopped hanging out with the dude. That girl did eventually dump him which he was sobbing to me about.
I try to avoid people like that to be honest.
Bluntly, everyone should consider themselves to be a mandatory reporter.
I know the term has a specific legal definition, but if more people adopted that mindset, then maybe there would be fewer rapists walking free…
This is - and I cannot overstate it - a joke.
I do know a rapist. Unfortunately I only found out she was a rapist when she raped me.
And the other way to know a rapist is by being an accomplice.
clearly you are forgetting the case of overhearing someone bragging
If you don’t report them after hearing them bragging, you are an accomplice.
reporting rakes effort, doing nothing does not
Not reporting a known rapist out of sheer laziness is grossly immoral
well it’s very common knowledge that men don’t confide in each other as much as women do.
FWIW I have had to excommunicate multiple people from my life based on credible accusations of sexual assault. One of them was my best friend.
Genuinely curious, how would you handle it if even one of those credible accusations were completely wrong and uncalled for? I have no idea how I would handle it but haven’t been in your position
That’s a good question. I can only answer this question hypothetically because it’s always been something I was reasonably sure of.
With my best friend, I didn’t want to believe it but the accusation was damning. I ended up becoming close to a girl he raped and she told me herself that it happened. When confronted, my friends story basically amounted to admitting to date rape. The reality was likely worse but that’s immaterial to the end of our friendship.
The other time a good friend of mine essentially told me his plans to date rape a young girl. We were about 18 and he planned to do MDMA with a 14 year old girl alone at his house.
So in both cases the guy essentially told me themselves and just didn’t realize that I wouldn’t see it the same way they did.
I take these kinds of accusations very seriously. I will always believe victims but at the same time it’s demonstrably true that people make false allegations of sexual assault and it ruins lives.
I think we have to be hyper critical of these kinds of accusations. By getting this wrong we run the risk of causing these accusations to lose weight and meaning. That being said we need to be hyper critical in a way that doesn’t cause real victims to feel like they can’t come forward. I won’t say I know what that looks like exactly.
If I found out that I had removed someone from my life due to a false accusation like this I would be very upset. I would feel used and manipulated and I would be actually more upset at the false accusations than I ever was as the alleged rapist. In my view the false accuser has hurt not only the accused and myself, but they have hurt every single legitimate rape survivor.
I really don’t have the answer to this myself but I think the best people to ask would be rape survivors and people who have been falsely accused.
Thank you for responding, I really appreciate your attempt. I complete understand that it is hypothetical until it happens you just can’t really know.
I know survivors and at least one person who was falsely accused (it was found out and was revealed within a reasonable timeframe in the whole shit show that was happening)
And I have had this come up in a couple times in conversations, its actually what prompted me to ask you.
And I think you are absolutely a good person to ask, because while it sounds like you know a lot more people than I do, I was asked this same question, in different forms, from multiple people and like I mentioned, I really don’t know how I would feel about it really until it happened.
But it would anger me a lot I have no doubt. I would feel like I threw away someone who needed me when it was just important.
I don’t know how I would handle being falsely accused and getting convicted of it. I wouldn’t want to live with living through the people in my life all believing this about me, it’s a small pool by most standards and that makes them very precious to me. It could very well be the end for me by me. And I’ve been told by better than myself it isn’t a surprising result.
But like I have been sexually assaulted, and while I’m careful to acknowledge that my experience, while valid, isn’t typically useful as a comparison. It does leave me with a lot of compassion and empathy.
What is important is that anyone who is a victim, can speak to the right people, or have someone speak for them with their consent, on their behalf. I was fortunate, entirely too many people aren’t.
And the real kicker is that we are all imperfect so we get shit wrong sometimes no matter how much we try to do right
I did, actually. Our college never did anything about him and I don’t believe he got into legal trouble. We did kick him off of our special dorm floor at least. Piece of shit.
I know a femme nb rapist and a masc nb rape victim, and I’m agender. What prize do I win?
Sadness? The ability/duty to do something meaningful about it to ensure they don’t do it again, i.e. not punishment but working with them to undo whatever entitlement they have, lessons they have been taught, trauma they have and power structures they are part of that allows them or makes they want to, do it.
