Protestors need to start arming themselves.
That’s what Trump wants, so he can declare martial law and cancel the midterms.
You don’t seem to understand what is happening here.
He doesn’t need an excuse. He’s going to do it. He needs to be STOPPED.
You need to wake the fuck up and realize the war has already started and refusing to fight just gets you mowed over.
The “war” has not already stared but you stupid fucks will hand it to him on a silver platter.
Surely if you’re quiet enough the leopards won’t eat your face.
What more is it going to take for you to realize there’s a lot more at stake here than our own individual comforts?
Standing up to the first American king does not a stupid fuck make me.
He’s kidnapped another head of state and is occupying foreign territory. He’s sending military into American cities and killing civilians. What the hell are you on about?
I saw someone say that Americans won’t give a fuck about what their regime is doing, if they invade us, until we start sending their soldiers back in body bags. You’re making me doubt even that.
I sure hope if they send troops to Venezuela that they be met with another Vietnam.
you are dense. read the writing on the wall
The “war” has not already stared but you stupid fucks will hand it to him on a silver platter.
What do you call this?
Wh0 will stop him from doing what he wants? Judge? Police? Military? Answer please
seriously. do people think trump is not gonna rig the elections at this point? he’s been talking about rigging for a decade
He literally said multiple times that he rigged the 2024 elections with the help of Elon, but no one listened because “Trump says crazy things”
They are already shooting women in the face point blank, and Trump calls the shooter a hero and the victim a domestic terrorist. Burn this motherfucker down.
This is murder, for sure. Not downplaying this crime. But what you’re suggesting would result in tens of thousands of deaths, not one.
Yeah don’t worry. This will be last person the Nazis are going to kill. No need to overreact.
You are part of the problem.
You sure are from the middle ages if you’re making excuses for the ones killing thousands in concentration camps right the fuck now.
This administration is already responsible for way more than tens of thousands of deaths. Tell me, how many people did they deport last year?
Tis already happening and will get worse so whats the difference?
I mean, he’s gonna cancel them either way.
Why don’t wait to see if that’s true instead of taking your word for it before descending chaos into society?
How many times has he said he is going to have a third term? How has ‘wait and see’ worked out for us so far?
This shouldn’t be downvoted. Couldn’t be more obvious what Trump wants and we’re going to hand it to him.
You still think you can show your belly and think Trump and his goons are going to leave you alone?
Are you not even paying attention to what is happening?
They go for the weak FIRST. Do think they are targeting trans people and immigrants because they are afraid of them? No. They are going for them because they are vulnerable.
So your plan is to be as vulnerable as you can be in the hopes that they’ll leave you alone?
Wake the fuck up.
What’s it like being outsmarted by Trump? By doing exactly what he’s trying to get you to do?
You’re not doing shit but typing words on the internet, pussy.
You’re not doing shit but typing words on the internet, pussy.
Are you trying to get them to take action or not? Pick a lane comrade.
It’s okay that you feel sad, it must be hard to realize that the world didn’t need you at all.
He wants to be a king. I think we should stop him.
How? By giving an excuse to lock down the country with the military?
Maybe if wanted to stop him, we should have voted for Harris.
If he actually cancels the midterms, you might have an argument. Right now, you’re just too stupid to avoid doing exactly what he wants you to do.
By giving an excuse to lock down the country with the military?
He has already deployed military within the country. Not resisting has not prevented him from doing it anyway.
I guess you’re not part of a minority? Do you realize he’s already arresting, detaining, deporting and killing people right?
First the immigrants, then the people of color (we are here?), then the LGBT, then the leftists, and then whoever disagrees with him.
At which step do you say stop? Or will you keep saying “no let him put trans people into mental wards, all he wants is us to fight back!”? And when finally they come for you, will you still be passive?
You know what Trump wants even more than people to resist him? For people to let him do whatever he wants without resistance.
This shouldn’t be downvoted. Couldn’t be more obvious what Trump wants and we’re going to hand it to him.
Ya, Trump just wants an excuse to do this:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DTY0CKQCewD/Oh wait…
So he going to do the things he’s already doing and that he’s already going to do… he’s only going to do those things if we try to actually stop him from doing thise things… so what we should actually do is submit like cowards, and that will… stop him from doing the things he’s already doing, and is already going to do.
… Got it.
Brilliant strategy.
At which point you now give them free rein to just switch to auto and hose down the crowd.
Welcome to the joys of protesting. Unless you are going geared up for a riot, all protests are inherently “peaceful protests” where you are standing with your hands tied behind your back waiting for the blow. Because if you fight back any more than what is socially acceptable (often times pushing against riot shields), you will die. And so will everyone around you. And the people down the street. And that couple who were unfortunate enough to live above the bodega on 5th street.
How did compliance work out for that lady in her car?
They don’t need a fucking reason.
We are past the point where being “one of the good ones” makes you less likely to get killed. Time to be a hard target instead of a victim.
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We’re going to recreate Tiananmen Square. We may zip right past Kent State.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. People really can’t handle uncomfortable truths. They’ve never seen war, don’t know what it’s like. It probably hasn’t clicked for them yet that they don’t get to respawn when they die. They don’t understand the unfathomable amount of pain that comes with getting shot. They don’t comprehend how irrevocable any act of violence is, or the responsibility that comes with permanently altering the course of history.
I mean sure, something needs to be done, but these people don’t stand a chance against a militarized police force with modern equipment and a virtually unlimited budget.
They don’t understand the level of coordination it would take, the organization and the discipline required. The manpower, the combat experience, the heavy equipment. Small arms wouldn’t cut it. They’re not prepared. They don’t understand what sort of preparation that sort of thing would require.
These are the same idiots who were saying before the election, “it’s better if trump wins because it will hasten the revolution.” Damn fools, there is no revolution. Not one that can succeed. The time to stop this was on election day, and we failed, because idiots like these thought call of duty was real life.
And then they downvote you for telling them war isn’t pretty. Pathetic.
“People don’t know that they don’t respawn when they die”
What kind of Gamerslop bullshit is this. Yes, people know that when you die you’re dead.
This also reeks of defeatism. “Our chance was election day and they ruined it.”
Fuck all the way off with that bullshit.
I said it hasn’t clicked for them jackass. Knowing something as an abstract concept is completely different from knowing it in your bones. Have you ever had bullets fly over your head? Cause I have. Real bullets, not pixels on a screen.
But if you know more about it than I do, by all means, go ahead and overthrow the fascist regime. But if you’re gonna sit on your ass instead, then at least stop acting brave on the internet. You’re embarrassing yourself.
by all means, go ahead and overthrow the fascist regime. But if you’re gonna sit on your ass instead, then at least stop acting brave on the internet.
So you think people should be taking action?
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This administration has been promoting violence. We are promoting self defense.
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That would make sense. Explains all these tough-guy keyboard warriors calling everybody cowards while also not doing anything about it themselves…
The reality is that they are scared and they are privileged.
They’ve never felt helpless before. They’ve never actually been impacted by the horrors that others… kind of just live with. To them? Cops are the enemy but they are also who you call when your neighbor’s party is a bit too loud.
So they had their first experience of fear and helplessness. And they need to DO SOMETHING about it. Which makes them think of all their role models like John McClane and John Rambo and John Halo. Maybe they’ve even shot a gun a few times and figure they know what they are doing. They’re gonna do something and they’re gonna do it all by themselves and anyone who doesn’t is a coward.
But also, episode 8 of Stranger Things is tonight so maybe next month? But all you fuckers who are talking about maybe talking to organizers and getting involved with their community? THOSE are the real cowards!
Pay for my ticket to the other side of the country. You won’t.
Being downvoted for the truth.
Not generally how downvotes work.
And that was one lady just like it is always one person. It is not cops and their fat white kid friends indiscriminately firing upon crowds of civilians like it is naptime for Miss Smart’s kindergarten class. Which is what we see during some of the more historic massacres.
I know you’re scared. We all are. But if you are taking a gun to a protest you are not just putting your own life in danger but EVERY single life at that protest. That is why the more experienced organizers keep an eye out for that and will grab your ass and drag you into an alley if they realize you are packing (and not an undercover cop).
I strongly encourage talking to those organizers. I am not going to discuss it on lemmy but rest assured that we are all aware of this.
Your unwillingness to fight for you community is embarrassing. Stay home.
Its OK that you are fucking coward, that is your right, but its time for you to get the fuck out of the way of the people who are actually going to change this shit.
Sure. That’s it.
Please avoid any protests where people don’t know you’ll be taking your emotional support assault rifle that you’ll obviously quickdraw with to kill the cops before they kill you. Because you are the best at call of duty.
Remember to take credit for the work that the rest of us do once this shit is over, just like every other coward that acts like they are helping when its safe.
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These are conversations better had offline.
No. If somebody is going to be the asshole going strapped to a protest, that should very much be a very public discussion. So that others can take the appropriate precautions.
Because in the time it takes for the organizers to decide if that dumbfuck is an undercover cop or someone who is going to get everyone killed? The cops might see the bulge too.
You talk really tough for someone who hasn’t done anything about it. If you have, it surely would have caught some headlines, and you probably wouldn’t be alive to post about it. We’d probably all be commenting on a video of you getting taken out by 20x as many cops. And if you were in a crowd of people, likely many would be taken out with you.
So if you do decide to put your money where your mouth is, just be sure to do it far away from peaceful protestors and any bystanders.
Until then, stop calling people cowards, you coward.
Your canned lines are tired. And yes, you’re a coward.
Nice deflection. You’re a coward too, the difference between you and me is that you’re pretending to be better than everyone else.
Canned lines? You haven’t done shit. And if you do, make sure you don’t get other people killed who didn’t agree to be part of it. Canned lines.
You’re right though, I am tired. Peace out dude.
You’ve put a awful lot of thought into justifying being a pussy. Is that the story your telling your kids when this is over?
Have you done anything that I haven’t? You act like you’re so brave and tough. Show me the headlines where you did anything about it.
Fuck off, you think we don’t see the fresh 7, 15 day old accounts all advocating for bootlicking.
I appreciate that everyone is skeptical of all comments here.
And I’m glad people express that skepticism.
It’s very clear there’s manipulation here. And if you think you’re immune, you shouldn’t be participating in anonymous social media.
But I do appreciate that there are some people here to fight against the bots and threats to democracy, both foreign and domestic. Even if we can’t tell who they are or what is manipulation and what is honest.
Be careful what you post. Be aware. Be skeptical. Talk to people in real life, because even if it’s just people at the corner shop, that’s a hell of a lot more valuable than here.
I made my account a week ago after I got my ip permabanned from reddit for telling russian bots to fuck off too many times.
What I’m doing here isn’t bootlicking, what I’m doing is telling you to stop calling people cowards for not doing things that you’re also not doing…
Ok I’ll call people cowards then, I managed to square off with the SPD, along with a number of other Seattleites, a number of years back, and…
We managed to cause them to retreat from their regional precinct HQ, they burned all the documents they couldn’t take with them, and fucking abandoned it.
But sure, yeah, go on, tell me more about how direct action can’t work.
The entire fucking point is that you organize as something like a guerllia force, not that you just try to ‘one man operator’ this shit.
You need discipline, organization, tactics, actual physical capability, opsec, etc.
A lone wolf is a suicide by cop.
Yeah, don’t do that, duh?
Oh and no, there aren’t any identifiable videos of me.
… Because I am not a moron.
Guarantee you won’t be in the thick of it.
Lot of “tough guy” internet warriors with zero consideration of pointlessly destructive that would be.
Pay attention to what the rest of us do so you know what stories to make up so your kids didn’t learn what a useless pussy you were when it mattered.
I already see what you’re doing. Typing words on the internet instead of doing anything. You’re pathetic and useless.
If only what Trump and ice were doing got you as mad as criticism of your advocacy for compliance and cowardness.
Trump and ICE do make me mad, which is why I don’t support stupidly doing things that obviously serve their purposes.
Go back to demanding other people die while you sit on your ass and do nothing. Not supporting random, indiscriminate and disorganized violence isn’t “compliance and cowardice”, it’s not being a mindless fucking dumbass, pussy internet warrior.
compliance would have been surrendering and opening the door.
That’s completely false, they told her to leave.
Stop fucking lying.
oh boy, i didnt know that, i only heard what he said
Oh that justifies the murder then.
nothing justifies the murder
ICE will not show up if people actually shoot back. They only act like this because they believe they are invincible.
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A half dozen or so armed citizens on ICE watch in every neighborhood will have a chilling effect on their bullshit pretty fucking quick.
And if not? If not, then you’re already so far gone that you have no choice but to fight.
Probably not. But the national guard and the army will. I recommend looking up the Tulsa massacre as well as all the times we have slaughtered Native Americans by the dozens (and that is just in the US).
Both of which were unarmed when slaughtered
How well has the army done against guerrilla warfare?
Are we really fucking doing this again?
Go look up what flock cameras are. And understand there are plenty more where that came from. We live in a surveillance state. So when you and your friends run out of nowhere to scream “wildcats” and shoot up the cops? They’ll fairly trivially track you to your home where you, your family, and the people down the street can be massacred at the leisure of the army.
And yes, yes, I know. You and all your friends are going to coordinate to destroy every single camera all at the same time so that nobody can ever track you. And you’ll aim your rifle in the sky and take out the satellites overhead. And you’ll do all of this without ever having to coordinate with another human being because, if you actually knew how to do that, you wouldn’t be speaking like a child and would realize you aren’t the only person with these fears and those community organizers are well aware of things.
Or they’ll just take a page from the israelis and blow up a random apartment complex because there were black people and The Gays in there. They were probably the shooters, right?
Homie was right, you’re a coward.
super strange argument you have, “these people are oppressive and totally powerful, and we should do nothing.”
whats the end goal of your ideology?
That would be a strange argument to have. I don’t know what the scarecrow’s deal is, but that isn’t at all what I am saying.
To summarize: if you bring weapons to a protest, you are not protesting, you are rioting. And if you bring weapons with the intent to kill (basically the only way a firearm is useful to “protect” from another firearm), you are literally a terrorist. That results in a VERY VERY different response.
Is there a time and a place for that response? I am not going to answer that on lemmy. But understand that most people at that protest are there to make their voices heard and don’t expect to soak up bullets for john rambo. And if it becomes known that is what happens because someone is always gonna bring a gun? Those protesters stay home
That’s a good first step. One of the best things we can do to fight back is make sure we have cameras that report to us, and that don’t report to them.
We decided what our cameras are used for. Not them.
Long pole with a spray can on one end is classic anti camera tech.
Psychotic gun-nut argumennts
Vietnam is on the other side of the planet and were supported by the Soviet Union.
Such a stupid fucking argument.
Do you really not think there will be outside involvement when things go tits up?
Here’s another bot commenting 46 times telling us to swallow boot.
If there is one thing the right is correct about it is about keeping the guns.
Some level of law enforcement is going to have to respond if there’s open gunfire in the streets.
What did they do at Uvalde Texas again?
How is this a point? So fucking stupid.
That ONE event doesn’t predict any other event.
and then what?
I dunno. Maybe you should consider showing your local community and protest organizers you are trustworthy and talk to them about it? Not in a form that is trivially scrapable by anyone who can vibecode a spider?
Fucking scrape me. If I’m not on multiple lists by now then I’ve been doing something horribly wrong.
Absolutely not. That’s what he’s hoping will happen.
They’re going to keep killing peoples regardless.
When is the tipping point though? They can do whatever they want as law does not matter for them anymore but the protesters should stay peaceful.
That’s what he’s hoping will happen.
What are they going to do differently? Start shooting armed civilians instead of shooting unarmed civilians?
Absolutely not. That’s what he’s hoping will happen.
Right, if people start arming themselves stuff like this might happen:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DTY0CKQCewD/Oh wait…
Good luck arming yourself against a trillion dollar worth army
Weird, cause I only see three guys in this video.
I mean, the Vietnamese and the Iranians, and the Iraqi, and the Afghani, have managed pretty well for all those billions. You know the Pentagon also can’t even pass a simple audit? We might be good, depending on how many $25k paper shredders the geniuses have been convinced to buy by their totally honest and not greedy contractors.
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You might want to invest in a dictionary in case you decide to open your mouth and shit out something this stupid in the future.
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Do you need me to point out that nowhere does it say “if you are armed its not a protest” or can we all just agree that your previous statement was full of shit and that you will remember this definition in the future?
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Self-defense is not a threat, and fuck you for trying to pretend otherwise.
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I see that I was wrong to assume that you were ignorant instead of just too stupid to participate in a discussion. That is on my. Bye.
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the moment you say protests instigate violence by the perpetrator already invalidates your argument. you should really stop using conservative talking and buzzwords, its not very intelligent conversation.
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I mean, being armed doesn’t necessarily need to mean you are showing up to be violent. If you bring a firearm to a peaceful protest, with right to carry, and you partake in the peaceful protest, peacefully so, then ICE starts illegally opening fire at you, you should be able to defend yourself.
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I would assume you would bring a concealed weapon to a peaceful protest for the purpose of self-defense. 😄
Bring a rifle and slinging it on your back would definitely be a provocation/instigation lol
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Look up the black panthers bud. Nothing wrong with armed protesters.
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I don’t think they’ve ever done a single thing except get people killed.
They’re responsible for some of the strongest gun control legislation currently enabled in America today. What the fuck do you mean you “don’t think they’ve ever done a single thing”?
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You are incredibly ignorant to the community organizing and mutual aid programs that the black panthers created and helped facilitate to provide needed aid to so many neglected, black neighborhoods.
The black panthers created countless programs to provide community-run schools and clinics, food/clothing, legal aid, senior transportation, ambulance services, legal aid and counseling, as well as things like home maintenance and repair services through freely accessible mutual aid initiatives.
And, yes, they also provided community defense against state oppression from racist police forces targeting black communities. Which is something that today’s communities could learn a fucking thing or two from with our current situation.
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Yes, because the party began to schism in its later years, obviously all of the good they did during their decades of activism obviously means nothing.
Also, I didn’t say anything about how they spent their funds, I was speaking about how they verifiably organized communities to exchange their resources and skills freely between each other, not simply fucking “charity”. Learn the difference. I don’t give a single fuck what they did with the money. Money is the least of my concerns.
And lastly, the black panthers were anything but segregationists. They happily worked alongside their white comrades as well as Latino groups and LGBT organizations, plus had a sizable portion of women in their ranks during a time of rampant sexism. The only thing they wanted to be separate from was the oppressive American government and the proponents of its racist as fuck culture.
Were they a perfect organization? No, but no organization is. They existed during a time when they were under constant threat by state and federal forces trying their damnedest to dismantle them. Some within the organization took things in the wrong direction in response to these existential threats, yes, but that says nothing about the good their organization did as a whole.
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Maybe they should try an insurrection, doesn’t seem to be any crime against that, just white house tours.
Not just a paintball. A pepper spray round.
Damn that had to have hurt like hell. He just walked it off like a champ.
Could have easily lost an eye or been killed.
All these masked up garbage humans were all whining like toddlers about masking up during covid.
Kill agents on sight
We should make KAOS a thing.
Well, what are you waiting for?
I’ve got my plans, which are non-violent but disruptive. If I were in the position of the people in these videos and had a gun, I cannot say that I would walk away peacefully or alive.
I currently don’t have a gun, so that stops me from committing violence to protect my community, but the times of peaceful opposition are winding thin.
I will watch carefully the legal prosecution, or not, of this ICE agent, and what you post online to poke and prod will have no bearing on that outcome or the decision I make at those times, so shut the fuck up.
What are you doing?
Edit - And that’s the thing isn’t it? I’m supporting non-violent, disruptive behavior, and the administration and ICE are now clearly communicating that activity as a capital offense deserving of murder. You’re on that side? Miss me with that shit.
Wishing for someones death is horrible. You can do better.
All fascists need to either stop being fascists or die. There is no middle ground with ideology that at the core seeks to exterminate entire groups of people. You aren’t born as a fascist, it’s an ideology you choose to support; these people are evil. If they won’t stop being evil, there is no other options than them being killed. It’s either them or an unimaginable number of people as their victims. There is no moral high ground here
In the end everyone wants to love and be loved. Most hatefull people like you or the facists you want to kill act out of fear of losing the things/people that they love. We could simply focus more ob what we want instead of what we don’t want.
There’s no more room for that hippie shit. We need to arm ourselves.
They just murdered a woman in cold blood. You’re not scared?
Nah, I obviously don’t want to kill them, quite the opposite. I’d like nothing more than a peaceful world with no war or atrocities. But this is not an ideal world where we can hold hands and sing kumbaya to make the evil to go away, we have to defend what’s good or it is destroyed.
Ok so you fear to take responsability for your comments by saying that someone else should kill them. You see that this is no different from the ones you blame? You don’t need to be like them. You can do better.
Is death really the only way you see? What can you do to make a difference?
Why are you putting words in my mouth? I will kill and likely die if the war ever comes to my doorstep and I have to. Would you have just let the nazis win ww2 then? There’s no point in both-siding when the choices are either evil or fighting against it. It’s pretty obvious which side any decent person will take
Edit// To answer your edits; death is obviously not the only way I see - I said it in the first message already, they can always stop being fascist before it is too late. What we can do to make difference is stop fascists taking power in the first place. We can be better people, help our neighbors, pay taxes, support public healthcare and minimum wages, vote for people who don’t support fascism… But when the fascists are already taking over? There’s very few choices in those moments, since they will use violence once they believe they’ll win. It’s in the core of fascism itself
Exactly. You can’t out-nice a group that doesn’t value nice. Tolerant societies cannot tolerate intolerance, the old paradox.
With that logic we should be much more aware of the life of animals we kill on an industrial scale similar as the Holocaust. Just because of the taste (we do not need animal based nutrition).
I’d argue the life of a peaceful cow is worth more than that of a hateful Nazi that wants people of certain mindset or skin-color dead or detained.
So why should we care more about the life of nazis that want to make life for everyone (but Nazis) worse (also considering e.g. Climate-Change). We already have too many people, we don’t need scum around…
Every ice agent should be a dead ice agent.
Wishing for someones death is horrible. You can do better.
Nah. Go fuck yourself. Every ice agent should be hunted.
If they haven’t resigned at this point…
they want to provoke violent confrontation, and are likely supporting those who are contributing here advocating for violent reaction. Don’t fall into the trap and they will not have any excuses or justification for escalation.
To be clear: reacting with violence will allow them to justify their escalation of violence, which is exactly what they want.
this is chess, not checkers.
You don’t fucking get it. No one listen to this guy.
FEAR OF ESCALATION WILL ONLY BRING MORE ESCALATION.
The “don’t be provoked” thing only works in the old world. The one where rules and laws still exist.
These people are taking over, completely, and they will happily do so over your dead body if that’s what it takes.
They know it, and I’m starting to get the feeling the shooter yesterday had instructions to kill. The fact that the shooter is not in custody is ALL the evidence anyone needs now to fully understand.
Good luck to all.
For real, people like ghost are more likely plants or bots that are trying to defuse and capture pressure so you don’t do what needs to be done. MAGA lives don’t matter, they have passed the moral event horizon. Do the right thing and defend yourself from our domestic enemies.
they’re going to do the violence anyways, and they’ll make up excuses
woman trying to drive her car away from them? shoot her in the face
Renee didn’t escalate, and see what that got her?
ICE is dependent on people not being able to fight back. They are bullies, and would be much less likely to engage if they could end up getting three bullets in the face. Power that can be applied to them, is the only thing that a bully would respect.
Right, she didn’t and we get outrage and a chance. If she pulled a gun on ICE then ICE would actually have ammo for their actions. I know how it sounds, but killing peaceful protestors is a very different thing from killing aggressive protestors. Deaths will increase with aggression from our side.
Read up on the nazi occupation of Europe, in many places like the Netherlands where people engaged in peaceful protest after surrender, while the Dutch government started to work with the nazis. Hence they were able to do all their bullshit, such as mass deportations. There’s multiple spaces in the Netherlands that are basically mass graves or memorials because we tried to reason with fucking nazis.
But in other places such as Denmark, people resisted and fought back together with government support despite the occupation, because of this the nazis weren’t able to do most of their shit. Your country is currently infested with nazis who are deporting your people, fight them, don’t reason with them. Sabotage them, refuse them service, boycott companies that provide them with services, make their lives hell, don’t let them shop in your stores, walk on your streets or do anything, it’s the only option.
both
Also French Resistance to Nazis
Sabotage them, refuse them service, boycott companies that provide them with services, make their lives hell, don’t let them shop in your stores, walk on your streets or do anything, it’s the only option.
Didn’t the write the manual on sabotage?
Renee wouldn’t have to pull a gun, so long as some observers and protesters are carrying. This is because there is an implication: “If you harm us, we will do the same to you.” It would go BOTH ways.
Problem is, ICE doesn’t have consequences of any kind to keep them from committing violence. They get the satisfaction of hurting people, without paying a price for it.
I fully agree with you
The other thing that’s horrible but meaningful to absorb is that: We are at war with ICE. It’s not “escalation towards war”, this slow motion of opinions is the war.
If you imagine the many thousands of people who died for our freedoms in World War 2, it becomes impossible to fathom, both the tragic loss, and the bravery of those volunteering to go. We’re instead fighting along ideology lines, rather than an actual frontline.
Point being, choosing to risk one’s self to announce ICE’s presence and protest their actions is a similar form of bravery, and it does have an impact. Everyone choosing to tackle that challenge should be aware of the nonzero chance their actions may result in being a victim of violence or even death. If you can look to the bravery of old war veterans, and accept the comparably low, but still present, level of risk from nonviolent protest, it becomes easier to accept it as a path forward; especially since we can unfortunately see that a decade of fighting Nazi Germany did not utterly destroy the Nazi party.
Right, she didn’t and we get outrage and a chance.
No, all you get is outrage. And dead protesters are dead protesters, peaceful or not.
Dude, they are already shooting and killing peaceful protesters. What does escalation even mean in that context? They’ll shoot and kill even more people? When someone is shooting at you, self defense is allowed.
I advocate for violence all the time. That’s because I hate them.
I think it’s silly to prolong this. They are doing damage by the day.
I think it’s silly to prolong this
Yeah, you guys should just speedrun to “martial law and no midterm elections”, that would make everything better.
They don’t need actual violence to declare martial law and suspend elections. They can just lie.
They don’t lie, just the other day they found Sadam’s WMDs.
no midterm elections
Oh no, we might not get the chance to vote in Democrats so they can…
checks notes
write a strongly worded letter then send another $2 billion to Israel!
Well, clearly the only viable alternative is a civil war with thousands of dead. Because clearly nothing has changed in the Democratic camp, since - as we know - Marry Sheffield, Michelle Wu, and Zohran Mamdani are all, famously, in the capitalist pockets of Big Business, right?
Those are all mayors. With the exception of Zohran, by virtue of how massive NYC is, none have the ability to meaningfully influence federal politics. Your counterpoint just proves it’s the Democrats functioning as the graveyard of leftist movements as they were designed to be. They have to allow meaningless wins to frustrate momentum.
Fuck me, you can’t be serious…
After decades of capitalists being elected, finally some of the most socialist people in the history of US win, and you’re like “nah, nothing of importance has changed”.
Come on, bruv!
Also, calling the mayor of NY a “meaningless win” is certainly a vibe…
Zohran has already condemned the righteous Palestinian resistance and caved to pressure from the national security state in having the NYPD Commissioner report to him directly instead of a subordinate.
My hope for Zohran is that he moderately decreases the cost of living for the people of New York. I don’t expect a socialist revolution, though I’m ready and hopeful to be proven wrong.
Am I wrong that they have no meaningful influence over federal politics?
Exactly what “violence” was Renee Good guilty of?
These gestapo don’t need excuses or justification because they have no responsibility or consequences.
It’s not what OC means.
If people start actually fighting against ICE, as in, with physical violence, Trump will enact martial law and take any remaining restrictions off of his goons.
While I don’t think we should show them our violent side, I would not evoke fears of martial law. Trump wants people to naturally follow the concept of martial law because he does not have the resources or support to enact it. It’s what AOC said; “Do not comply in advance”. Don’t believe any claims that the gestapo “could choose to make things worse”.
he does not have the resources or support to enact it.
Like he didn’t have the resources to push the invasion of Venezuela through Congress?
Kidnapping sole individuals, even presidents, turns out to not require quite as many resources as you’d think. They focus on these sole moments of fear because they don’t have the means to accomplish the pervasive military occupation they want. Hence very poorly directed National Guard deployments where the guard is puttering around unsure what’s expected of them (because Trump is afraid to say the quiet part out loud: Beat citizens)
or support to enact it.
Didn’t stop him from kidnapping Maduro. He doesn’t give a shit about laws, neither does ICE.
He already assumes an alternate reality. He already made up BS to deploy National Guard. Now his Gestapo executes people in the street and they’re making up terrorist accusations.
He WILL absolutely declare martial law based on made up threats. It’s not a “if”, it’s only a “when”. His goons can already shoot people in the street in front of cameras, I don’t know how much more restrictions you believe they have.
I’m not tellling you to take arms, I have the privilege to not live in the US, but do you realize the escalation pace you’ve been through in 1 year, and you still think it won’t go further?
He’ll find a way to do it anyways if that’s his wanted plan. Appeasement does not work.
take any remaining restrictions
So fire 6 times instead of 3?
No, bring out the military in tanks and APCs and start gassing, arresting, or killing anybody who’s out on the streets after curfew.
Educate yourself about what totalitarian dictatorships do to protests.
Protestors are coming to these events with no weapons in hand, I think it is perfectly reasonable, given what we’ve seen, for protestors to be carrying guns like the black panthers did. ICE needs to know that thier violence will not go unopposed, the need to SEE that.
Reminder that California has strict gun laws primarily because racist Republicans feared an armed Black Panther march on the state capitol. See: Mulford Act
Okay can you share our next moves?
Because my calculus says civil war is inevitable and better earlier than later as they are actively preparing. They will look to build camps and disarm. It should crack off now.
The longer we wait the stronger their position became.
But please if you have a grandmaster mate worked out let’s hear it.
The most effective non-violent action we can take is joining local mutual aid groups, reading Full Spectrum Resistance for more details, and ultimately preparing and organizing for a General Strike.
The country would be brought to its knees if suddenly deprived of profit and labor. That tactic was extremely effective in Chile in 2019, and had they not fallen for the trick of liberal reform, they would’ve had a successful revolution on their hands with virtually no bloodshed.
If you aren’t in a union (or even if you are, it’s worth dual-carding), please consider joining the IWW to unionize your workplace (bonus: you’ll get higher wages, better benefits, and more time off if you succeed!) to strengthen a general strike if we manage to enact one, as most unions have a strike fund that can supplement your income during a general strike to make it more financially bearable (you should also save as much money as you can reasonably do, so it can also be used to keep yourself afloat during a strike).
And for our international friends, you should join one as well, as fascism is gaining momentum globally. If your country isn’t listed below, just contact the IWW directly in the link above, and they’ll help you set up a new local branch.
Right, placating Hitler instead of confronting him went great historically.
This seems like just a guess though of what seems “likely” and who “they” support. Truth is that no one knows. They may be supporting you as your argument is one that suppresses resistance and makes it seem futile, which also favours them and can be quite dangerous.
Not that I know what the truth is, just want to make clear no one knows. And they do not seem to need a justification for violence anyway.
They’re just playing you (saying this from outside US) because they know you can’t make sense of this, and resisting or not will both work in their favour.
If it was chess, Trump wouldn’t be winning. This is far from chess, it’s the jungle.
No, we’re way passed this point. They are going to enact violence no matter how well behaved you are. The only hope is to show up in massive numbers and remind them how many more of us there are.
But it is a double negative. Peaceful protests hasn’t done jack shit so far, now it’s naturally a phase two…
Let’s put on frog costumes and dance on the sidewalk. Its been so effective at stopping this. /s
I mean,… those puffy costumes sure are great for concealed carry… so i’ve heard…
They are already murdering people…
👆 listening to this fool will get you and your loved ones killed
Bullies need to be punched in the face.
The bullies will have tanks and APCs when Trump enacts martial law if ICE is under attack.
Then so be it. It would have been that at the start, and it will be that now.
What are people waiting for, the US military to spontaneously combust?
Fight now, or fight harder later. Those are your options unless you plan to run. Understand that.
That’s some top tier delusion. “Fight now”, lol. With handguns? With buckets of paint? Against APCs and drones?
Wake up, man! It’s not the 18th century! The only hope the US has is a crushing midterms victory by the Democrats, then maybe they put these bastards in prison.
If not, it’s going to be blood on the streets, if not flat out a civil war, with thousands dead.
Foreign interference account.
No one believes legitimate midterm elections are happening. Or that if they happen, the results will be accepted by MAGA. No one.
Anyone pushing for “we must crush them in the elections” is either willfully pushing a false narrative, or a complete fucking moron.
So, in your opinion, a civil war with thousands dead is the better alternative?
Correct. Because it will so obviously be worse than that if it doesn’t happen.
This is my opinion.
They will do that anyway. What are the ptotesters saving themselves for, slavery? Maybe they should try to emmigrate. That way, they can all be here, when we start gathering every person we can for the fight.
Username does not check out.
Meanwhile they murder and deport people.
Keep playing chess and you won’t have anyone else to play with.Yea I remember when in school if you dont react to aggressive scumbag beating you he will stop bullying you. Works all the time
this is chess, not checkers.
They just ate their own rook.
I’ll bet you also like to call Trump TACO, too, huh?
That they will escalate their violence is inevitable. At this point we should all be organizing our communities for self defense.
TACO only refers to dealing with bodies who can and do resist him. China can hit him. Europe can hit him. Even Canada can bite (and some tariff to take effect in 2026 were just pushed out to 2027, because… TACO!).
But “his” people does not bite (yet). So no limit there until he feels some kind of pain in return.
Yep. At some point they’re going to do this and some folks are gonna open fire on them or throw a Molotov or something, and then the repression will get harsher and harsher. We need to stop them before this escalates.
You stop them by escalating
That sounds insane to me. Can you give me an example of this working?
Make sure to shout from the tops of your lungs, metaphorically, to get the apathetic to this informed.
Standing within the same level as everyone else, hands up and flat in defensive posture, treated as an aggressor. Fuck this shit, I dont care if the guy (ice) was “scared” or whatever lie he tries to use to justify his actions. Fuck these people and fuck any authority given to them.
Anyone have any context as to what happened before? In the video the man only got pepperballed after grabbing the paintball gun.
He had his hands flat, guy pushed into him and his hands got tangled and instinctively gripped it. Wasn’t like he was going after it trying to steal it.
Watch it again, carefully. Or don’t, everyone already has their mind made up it seems
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ICE has been overrun with psychopaths.
You need that in your résumé to be hired.
it’s all been psychos since it was founded in 2002. it has gotten worse though now that all pretense that they do anything worthwhile or useful has been eroded
Bring ballistic goggles to protests. They are not fucking around. Neither should you
I think this was a spur of the moment the neighborhood coming out to protest. But for future ones yeah, eye protection, breathing protection, pads.
Id advise everyone to get a pair of ballistic goggles whether they plan to protest or not. Just be prepared. These idiots will start blinding people without realizing or caring.
Widespread Protests in major cities against the unpopular and authoritarian
IranianAmerican regime.I’ve seen a lot of US lemmynauts being clueless about what to do to improve things and fight against the political situation. I understand that it doesn’t come naturally if it’s not in your culture so I’ve written the following. Feel free to suggest better ideas, alternatives and so on:
Here’s what I’d do:
- Join a union
- Join a political party or an organization that is not one of the sellouts
- Join any canal you can find that informs about protests, strikes and other actions
- Educate yourself on the actual methods of protesting, what works or doesn’t work, what you should do or not
- Organize these infos if needed and share them around
- Equip yourself, take a dumb phone, take liquid eye cleaners droplets (no idea how it’s called in english), take something to cover your nose and mouth against tear gas, take some kind of eye protection
- Learn your rights, what to do and learn a specific lawyer phone number (by heart) in case of arrest
- Relay those links, organizations and everything around yourself
- If it’s available to you and in line with your ethics, arm yourself before they confiscate weapons to politically awake citizens - and of course, start training yourself
This above is the easy part you can do from your couch. Then:
- Follow and participate to your union/party/organization events/meet-ups/flyer distribution/cybermilitantism/…, try to help them in the ways you can. You have a car? Offer to bring food to the meet-ups. You’re following the news 24/7? Offer to set up a RSS feed or some kind of news aggregator with what’s important in your area and all the shit that’s happening. You’re good with computers? Help those that want it to install a linux distro instead of spyware OS…
It is very important to find or create networks of people around you that are decided to help improve the situation, as they can help you in case you need it. It doesn’t even mean that you have to join dangerous action (you define what’s dangerous for you), but even just signalling to the people that will act that they are not alone by being one more person in the group is already a boost for everyone, especially if you help them in some ways.
Then, as much as you can, participate in the group’s actions, and evangelize the group’s existence around you.
What if there’s no action? Try to push for it in the meet-ups. Start with something easy. Tracts distribution, door-to-door to offer help and support around your neighborhood and make the group known, sentry in your communities to signal ICE/dangerous individuals raids and presence, offer to be a contact or to help people that might be targeted next, create workshops to rewrite the constitution in a way that would make it better for everyone, organize debates where people of different opinions actually listen to each others… The group needs to build confidence by actively doing something useful together. And it can stop here if people in the group have cold feet for more - it’s already great. Once the group is created and solid, it will be able to change direction if needed by the political climate.
Next steps if people are motivated: actual political activism. Protests, sit-ins, happenings, guerrilla urbanism, petitions, blocking highways, or going to talk to people in power… The research you’ve done in the first steps should give you ideas of what you can do, and how to do it. Advice from a french protester: keep things joyful. Our protests are always a happy moment (up until the cops come and hit us), we’re singing, we’re dancing, we’re having fun. It shouldn’t be a chore to be there, and if possible the action should make people want to join you. It helps grow the movement, it helps grow the links between people, it gives a good image of the movement.
And what if there is no group like that around you? (Well I can’t believe there is no union, but ok.) Then build one! Start small, with people in your community, with people that work at the food bank, with people you’ve met at the No Kings protests or something.
You cannot succeed as individuals. This is political, and political is the action of the many. Join the many, help increase the many, create the many if needed. The more numerous you are, the stronger you will be.
Well I can’t believe there is no union, but ok
The US labor movement has been so thoroughly crushed, this is a reality for many many people. It is heavily region and job dependent though, but many states have union membership around 2-3% they just don’t exist there.
Otherwise, you’re 1000% right. The hardest part is taking the first step.
It’s a real shame for unions then… but also, it means that they exist still. If you have nothing in your state you can still contact one in another state. They’ll have contacts of people in your area, or at least they can help you set something up.
And being in a union doesn’t mean that you have to actually show it and fight inside your own company (at least I hope it’s not like that in the US). You can help the union and participate in other actions not targeted at your company and noone will be the wiser about it.
And if by some weird bureaucratic US-only reason you have to disclose it, you can still contact them, offer support and participate in stuff without officially joining anything.
Make sure to protest with cones and bottles of water to put out incendiaries. Keep masks and eye protection handy for protecting yourself from paintball strikes like this asshat.
I’d like to add to this:
Ski masks work better than cheap protective goggles because they’re sealed. You can find them for cheap at the thrift store.
Umbrellas are nice for non-agressive protection. Don’t put baking soda in the eye wash, even though some people suggest it.
Also, it seems like people like K95 over the N95 because it loops around your ears instead of using a headband that’s more likely to slip. Make sure you bring back ups.
We need more self-defense classes against ICE agents. For Renee.
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Sure…
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When?
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