Chinese propaganda is rampant on the fediverse. We need to discuss ways to combat this. One group- memes or something is wholly controlled by Chinese state actors. What do you think?
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I’m Chinese on fediverse. Guess I’m propaganda now.
Treat it like a troll post. Downvote and move on, if the name becomes familiar block them.
This goes for all propaganda not just the stuff you are against.
That assumes you accurately define propaganda. I think we’ve all faced half baked allegations as such, and had people vote with the accuser, you want everyone to be seperated from each other on here because they misunderstood a point, or understood different facts, or because they are a dumbass on a different topic?
Just downvote, and move on, unless the person is stalking you, looking at you hexrat, or whatever fucking mammal.
This was true until I realized they’re all over. Anything even remotely pertaining to China is flooded with the Chinese state actors reply guys and bots. In effect, using the protocols strength against itself. Is the protocol itself even able to be banned in China? Are they seriously active on here just to push their bullshit China marketing even harder. They’ve gone all out the last five years.
What racist, afraid of your own shadow scummy behavior you display.
Anything even remotely pertaining to China is flooded with the Chinese state actors reply guys and bots.
When I check facebook, just in passing as I use marketplace occassionally I check the enshitified feed, and there is a lot of chinese propaganda on there, pushing their advancements, science, it’s a concderted effort for sure.
The Chinese are really bad at propaganda though, they never had to try with their own people, so they put that same amount of understanding into it here and it falls flat, at least so far. They are getting better with their fluff pieces, but as far as manipulating us, they suck at it, unlike the Russians, they get us, they know just how stupid we are.
Even Chinese SA’s have access to VPN’s, proxies, etc. It’s not like they would tie their own hands behind their backs to spread the good word, ya know?
Russia only needed a small number of inroads to influence the 2016 US election, and now? Pff, they hardly need to do anything, we’re completely self-sufficient in propagandizing ourselves. It’s entirely possible China’s already created their own army of Overseas Useful Idiots.
I’m a big fan of using previous baseless conspiracy theories to justify current baseless conspiracy theories.
brain in a box so he doesn’t have to think anymore
I’m assuming that made sense in your head?
Irony thy name is Hector.
Speak of the devil. The long palsied arm of [redacted.]
Is the hexbort here in the room with us right now? There’s a fancy saying my people have, if you’re smelling dog shit everywhere you go, look under your own shoe.
Great anecdote comrade. We have sayong, if you do not think good, do not think much. Now if you will excuse me trollsky.
At least I don’t use alts to upvote my comments and downvote yours. Like yourself. Sad stuff Hec. Sad stuff.
I still don’t understand the point of downvoting here since it doesn’t seem to affect visibility. You’ll have the dumbest take on something sitting there at -36 and I still have to look at it.
Entire subs and communities, and servers are Chinese state actors. I wish we could daylight this bullshit, a single serving page with a method for rankings subs, servers with biases?
Show your evidence
Downvote and move on, if the name becomes familiar block them.
Sorry, but you forgot a step:
Downvote and move on, if the name becomes familiar report them and then block them.
Moderators should help so not all users will need to block these bad actors.
There’a a global positive shift in opinion on China that’s happened over the first year of Trump. The trend was already there in the “Global South” but it’s now happening everywhere. This shift is driven by real economic and geopolitical pressures. E.g. US tariffs and military threats, Chinese investment and cheap EVs, etc. Add to that there are more people on Lemmy from non-NA/EU countries than on US-centric platforms like Reddit and this shift becomes even more apparent here. In Western countries the positive opinion on China is less one of an ally and more of a necessary partner. In Canada, the opposition to trade with China shifted from 80% in 2020 to 32% at the end of 2025.
If you’re primed to not see anything positive about China, then even positive views around partnership could appear as pro-China propaganda. Also people in the Global South are much more aware of US and European atrocities so when you present China’s atrocities as a counter to people’s positive opinions, it looks unserious and hypocritical to them. If you see their hypocrisy callout as a propaganda method and you call it out as such, you lose all good faith credibility with them.
Pics:
PS: Along with this shift, comes the realization among some that a lot of what they thought about China came from corporate US interest via US-owned media that pushes a line useful for that interest. This has happened to me and multiple RL friends and family in Canada. The conversations on the last thanksgiving table have changed a lot since 2024. At present we’re in the necessary partner camp.
There are a lot of people supportive of the PRC, both because the US Empire is declining and the PRC is positioned as an alternative to the US Empire’s naked terrorism, and because Lemmy has a lot of communists. Lemmy has a lot of communists because the lead developers are communists, FOSS attracts communists, and because as Reddit bans communist communities they are often suggested to come here.
There’s absolutely no credible evidence of CPC interference in Lemmy, this is a normal thing to happen to a FOSS alternative to Reddit.
I used to be critical of PRC even though I’m American Chinese. Nowadays however I just don’t want to be governed by a pedo king. Seeing a bunch of teslas around when Elon is also very clearly on the list sucks too. Guess this is Chinese propaganda…
the PRC is not nearly an alternative to the US empire, its a replacement to it, with different but overlapping trade-offs. what about neither? It’s seriously like instagram users fleeing to tiktok, then to upscroll or whichever other corporate platform.
the bad of the US does not make the PRC good. I want change, big changes, but definitely not that kind.
The US Empire is currently exporting mass death and destruction globally, threatening Greenland and Canada with annexation, kidnapped another country’s president and first lady, is performing piracy for oil, threatening Cuba, and on top of all of these overt acts of terror, is super-exploiting the global south for super profits. The PRC, on the other hand, as a socialist country, is far more peaceful, maintains a defensive millitary, has ~3 overseas millitary bases compared to the hundreds of the US Empire, and offers mutual development opportunities like Belt and Road.
The differences are staggering. When countries in the global south partner with the US Empire, they are trapped in cycles of underdevelopment, where their surplus value is plundered. When countries in the global south trade and partner with the PRC, they achieve rapid development, and escape the never-ending cycle of impoverishment. This win-win development isn’t because China is more morally good, but because their economic structure and geopolitical position compels them towards mutual cooperation over plunder and terror.
Further, there isn’t really an alternative to the US Empire and PRC. The US Empire is actively invading countries to make sure they comply. The EU is vassalized by the US Empire. When we look at who the global south goes to for development opportunities, they are increasingly rejecting western imperialism in favor of cooperation with China and BRICS, and forming mutual partnerships with neighboring countries (like the Alliance of Sahel States).
The bad of the US Empire isn’t why the PRC is better, the sheer benefit of working with the PRC is why the PRC is better.
Man’s freaking out cos he just learned .ml stands for marxist-leninist 😂 Glad to find something we strongly agree on tho comrade.
To be clear, .ml stands for Mali, and it was allegedly chosen because it was cheap/free. Lemmy.ml is just the flagship, test instance, and happens to have a lot of communists because the devs are communists. Lemmygrad.ml is explicitly ML.
Lemmygrad. ml is explicitly ML.
Exploring Left-Wing Extremism on the Decentralized Web: An Analysis of Lemmygrad. ml
… findings reveal a substantial increase in user activity and toxicity levels following the migration of these subreddits to Lemmygrad. ml. We also identify posts that support authoritarian regimes, endorse the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and feature anti-Zionist and antisemitic content … Moreover, their support can extend beyond backing these authoritarian regimes, even cheering on their violent actions, as evidenced by their posts on the Russian invasion of Ukraine …
The whole study makes a good read.
Communist subreddits like r/GenZedong and lately r/TheDeprogram, after being banned by Reddit, migrated largely to Lemmygrad.ml. I agree that the study is a good read, but for humor, not serious journalism. Their study is essentially them finding out that communists are on a communist platform, and then the study conductors conflate anti-Zionism with anti-semitism, a common hasbara tactic.
Nothing you said contradicts that Lemmygrad.ml is Marxist-Leninist, all you’ve really done is confirm that it is, while also conflating anti-Zionism with anti-semitism. Further, the only comment they point out as anti-semitic, was in fact removed by the moderation for spilling over the edge, as comrade Edie pointed out here. Claiming grad is anti-semitic because of comments it removes is tortured logic.
Also not sure why you’re tagging my grad account, if I was trying to hide that I wouldn’t post in my account description that I’m a Marxist-Leninist, nor would I have made my grad account the same name as my Hexbear and Lemmy.ml accounts.
I liked the part where they conflate anti Zionism with antisemitism, show one comment/“post” as proof, and don’t reference it so readers can view upvotes or context around said post.
13·10 days agohttps://lemmygrad.ml/comment/18989
5 downvotes, removed by mod. Modlog for user: https://lemmygrad.ml/modlog?userId=2803
I thought that’s what happened with that one, thanks for digging it up!
It was actually TankieTanuki that dug it up https://hexbear.net/comment/6404332
Lmao wow
The whole study makes a good read.
Srry I can’t take it seriously when the author is this guy
Is that real?
Incredible, the shining knight of Zionism and anti-communism.
Holy shit 😂
We already went over this garbage study with your @Scotty@scribe.disroot.org account[1] and @Sepia@mander.xyz account[2] two days ago and your @Sepia@mander.xyz account two months ago[3].
You’re like a broken record, bot.
Well that explains a lot
Idk which I dislike more. Those types of accounts or the ones upset when you point out the I want x country to attack y country means people/civilians will get killed
The problem with political studies is that they’re nonscientific. It’s a blog post they’re calling a study. No amount of statistical analysis or clever methodology makes this a proper study because it’s based on political opinions. A terrible, ignorant set of opinions at that.
“But isn’t Marxism a study of politics?!” No, it’s a body of works in economics and historical analysis, not wayward political opinions.
Ah cheers for the clarity, my mistake
No worries!
I’m no fan of Tankies or the CCP, but I’m really not seeing any more pro-china propaganda than you see elsewhere, mostly excitement as a result of their green tech stuff or HSR (while ignoring why China has a need for HSR)
I am seeing a surprising amount of anti-china paranoia from the UK press right now that frankly seems like it’s engineered by the US given its timing. Like articles about diplomats using burner phones as if that isn’t standard (for all countries).
You should go away and stop wildly fear mongering.
You have discovered .ml? Yeah the lead devs are tankies lol
So they’re trying to capture mind share of technologists. Nice play, I’m embarrassed.
Register on a different instance and filter everything ml. It’s a life changer with the Fediverse.
Or better yet, to back to Reddit
Best advice here. ML is a goddamn dumpster fire
Lol. This coming from a .worlder
Plenty of Russian propaganda too. Every “conservative” community or server is essentially acting in Putin’s favor.
Don’t forget USAian propaganda. By far the most prevalent under that regime.
I tend to find Lemmy to be pretty good at being critical of the US
Lemmy world isn’t
Both often go hand in hand
Sinophobia will get you nowhere. Those “Chinese State Actors” on the Fediverse are largely Western crackers who read theory and oppose Imperialism. You shouldn’t bogeyman an entire nation you don’t know anything about, this is xenophobic and also works against the working class.
I tend to agree with sentiment. Its more useful idiots type then cynical profesionals feeling.
You can safely assume that anything on .ml or lemmygrad is. Just don’t subscribe to them. I can give you a block list that encompasses most of the ones who don’t stay nicely in .ml land. We should have shareable block lists like BlueSky to get new users up and running quickly. I hope that PieFed eventually does some stuff like this.
It’s safe to assume that the enemy is promoting propaganda while our noble nation is promoting the truth!!! \s
The difference is that I don’t get banned/censored on western instances for criticizing Trump or US military interventions.
You don’t get banned on hex, grad, or ml for it either, either. People should really check the mod logs a few times daily.
I’ve gotten banned and censored from communities there for saying that Ukraine should fight back against Russia.
Unfortunately for you, the modlog is public
Yeah so check it.
You were temp banned, usually those are for a few days for the person to cool down. The removed comment was part of a chain advocating for the collective punishment of russian civilians
That’s a US military intervention.
Okay… From the last couple days.
Removed Comment He’s also either blackmailed or employed by china (multiple visits including his honeymoon, where he spent the night not with his wife but in the room with a number of school kids that he also brought with him… On his honeymoon) by NihilsineNefas @slrpnk.net reason: Misinformation
mod Removed Comment There are lots of countries, including all the western countries where fewer people answered affirmatively to that question, where people are far more free to express their opinions than in China, though. The most obvious reason being that the majority of the world’s countries do not have a Great Firewall. This is what shows that there is a bias in the Chinese answers – or possibly a bias the other way in the western ones, but either way it means the results are not meaningfully comparable. edit: > What’s happening is that working class speech is relatively free, while capitalist and corporate speech is not. That’s why the vast majority say they have freedom of speech, while we know the state censors private, capitalist speech. “I don’t want to work the 996 work week” is the epitome of working class speech, whereas supporting it is corporate speech. China chose to censor it. by turdas @suppo.fi reason: misinformation
Time mod Action
mod Banned realitista @lemm.ee from the community Technology reason: Rule 1 expires: 7 months ago
mod Removed Comment More like someone who lives in a country that survived communism and the oppression that it brings and who would never go back. Why don’t you guys move to China or North Korea (or inexplicably Russia which you also brigade for). Try living in the utopias you brigade for? by realitista @lemm.ee reason: Rule 1
mod Removed Comment You should pop on over to North Korea and tell us how great it is there. by realitista @lemm.ee reason: Rule 1
mod Removed Comment .ml is leaking again. by realitista @lemm.ee reason: Rule 2
mod Removed Post Trump wants green card applicants legally in US to hand over social media profiles reason: Duplicate
mod Locked Post Trump wants green card applicants legally in US to hand over social media profiles
mod Removed Post Elon Musk is named after a character in a book written by a Nazi, Werner Von Braun reason: Video link
mod Locked Post Elon Musk is named after a character in a book written by a Nazi, Werner Von Braun
mod Removed Post Donald Trump said on Thursday the survival of Ukraine is important to the United States, a shift in tone days before the House votes on a $61 billion aid package for Ukraine reason: Twitter links not allowed, articles only.
mod Removed Comment That’s a false equivalence. Every country is imperialist if you go back far enough. My concern is about today’s political and security situation, not that of 200+ years ago. by realitista @lemm.ee reason: Rule 1
criticizing trump or us military interventions is pretty much all i do on ml, grad, hexbear
i eventually leave or get banned from the anarcho lib comms for doing that.
Well sure you can criticize Trump there. But try criticizing the CCCP, China, or Russia.
we have reservations about, and criticize them all the time.
what i don’t really see being tolerated is insistent propaganda talking points or trolling, and even then most will talk to you if you are reasonable.
Insistent propaganda talking points and trolling are tolerated if they are from the Russian or China/CCP perspective. Honestly that’s about all there is on their news or politics discussions.
communists will mostly discuss communism and related
You can criticize them as long as you aren’t doing so from a liberal, anti-communist perspective. The genuine flaws of existing socialism are better analyzed by those that actually study socialism and socialist countries.
Ive been banned for criticzing the PRC explictly from a socialist perspective.
You were temp-banned, for dogmatically repeating debunked claims pushed by liberals, in the face of evidence to the contrary. You appear to be free to comment there.
I can and do
I engage regularly there in precisely those discussions.
Ah. Enlightened centrism.
Lemmy.ml is?!? That’s who I signed up for though. I like the privacy stuff. So which instance is politically neutral but technically aligned, pirate party, self hosting etc?
politically neutral <> pirate party
Pick one
I don’t see many self-hosters celebrating the wonders of capitalism.
Not dominated by Chinese, Russian nor Western state actors. That’s all I’m asking for. Where truth isn’t censored.
Where truth isn’t censored
Self-hosting seems your only option then. You might be cut off from other instances if they decide to defederate, but at least on your instance you’ll be able to enjoy free speech (and block unwanted speech).
I’ve been pretty happy here on lemmy.zip. We haven’t defederated from the tankie instances so you still see their content sometimes, but you can always filter them yourself. Same with the zionists on lemmy.world.
Yes Lemmy.ml is the most popular of the tankie instances. They will ban you, remove your posts, etc in most major communities if you say anything negative about CCCP, Russia, Communism, etc.
I can recommend lemmus.org as a very fast and efficient instance. Remember, you don’t have to have an account on the instance who’s communities you want to access. You can access communities on all instances from any instance. So the policies of your home instance don’t really affect you much. They only affect the communities hosted there.
Why is Lemmy.ml the most popular tankie instance? I’ve been played by Poo bear, interesting. Thanks I will switch.
ml literally stands for Marxist Leninist aka tankies aka red fascism
I can 2nd lemmus.org, it’s pretty chill over here. The admin has blocked the creation of new communities for the time being however, so if you want to start a new comm you’re better off looking elsewhere.
Yeah I look to bigger instances to host communities I create and smaller ones to host my account for speed.
So which instance is politically neutral
There is no such thing as “politically neutral.” What you perceive as neutral is that which is hegemonic.
If you’re concerned about privacy, you should probably know that a lot in the fediverse is very open by design so that other instances can communicate effectively.
That’s why everyone can see what you upvote/downvote, even if Lemmy itself doesn’t show this to you in its UI.
I’m a big fan of my instance im on so fat. sh.itjust.works/
They are more focused on a working platform then silecing dessent
I think you are having delusions
Because the USA and Europe are shining beacons of truth and human rights.
What you’re describing is false moral equivalence used as a deflective propaganda strategy.
What you described is a state enemy used to deflect attention from the many enemies within this state.
AKA “whataboutism”.
whataboutism is a thought-terminating cliche.
it ends up a very effective way of shutting down comparison between them.
The whole point is that there is no comparison necessary. It’s nothing but a deflection.
the comparison is very necessary when the problems and contradictions in the countries being smeared pale in comparison.
No it is not. If that’s the case, nothing matters except the worst of the worst. Everything can be excused by “yeah but that other guy is worse so it’s okay”. It’s preposterous.
yes it is, because it’s not china holding the world hostage with their trillion dollar military. they are qualitatively different.
saying tens of millions or deaths worldwide (probably much more) and even more kept in poverty is in equal standing with getting into war with your neighbor for a few months 50 years ago is a wild exaggeration that serves to both sides an issue that has one prominent cause for a century or so rn. we have had enough of it.
I mean the PRC and the USA arent Nazi Germany. So they are basically perfect. /s
Moral critic is kind of above geopolitical branding wars imho
leftists* are rampant on the fediverse
Not all leftists are supportive of China, anarchists certainly aren’t.
That’s not a rule, though. Many anarchists critically support the PRC and consider socialism to be better than capitalism, even if they disagree with Marxism and seek communalization over collectivization in the final analysis. As an alternative to the US Empire’s naked terrorism, the PRC plays a positive role.
Some of the worst things happen in the US are adoptions of PRC style domestic policy and some of the worst in the PRC is the adoption of both British and US style imperealism.
Can you elaborate? The US isn’t adopting PRC style domestic policy, nor is the PRC adopting British nor US-style imperialism, so I have no idea what you’re talking about. The PRC isn’t imperialist to begin with, it has no colonies nor neocolonies and isn’t plundering the surplus value created by the global south. Trade deals with China don’t come at the barrel of a gun either.
Sure. US takeover of TicTok is really direct example. The current ethnic cleasing operation empowering state protected slavery. Tighter interaction between buisness and goverment where failure to toe the party line is punished through unfavorable legal action and loss of goverment contracts for them or assoiciates. A heavy investment into domostic survellence and again forced cooperation for survellence capitalists.
On the US side.
On the PRC side, the expainsion Hong Kong style loan aggreements in order to establish maritime control globally. The attempt to expand territorial rights in the south china sea in order to expand their of control on their neighbors. Exporting survelence and censorship systems and models to keep favoriable dictatorships in power (as well as probally establish backdoors though that is an assumption). The funding of any group that fights their rivals influence as well. Just things imperialist do.
The US taking over Tik Tok isn’t “PRC style domestic policy,” though. The PRC has knowledge transfer agreements with any company that does business with China, I think this may be what you’re hinting at, but this is just the standard “sell it to us or we’ll ban it” style of US policy.
The PRC isn’t committing ethnic cleansing nor is it enslaving Uyghur peoples in Xinjiang, just like South Africa wasn’t committing “white genocide,” nor is there “christian genocide” in Nigeria. These are all examples of atrocity propaganda, where the west heavily distorts and often fabricates narratives in order to foment resistance and to give their own populations free excuses to not support anti-imperialism, in essence supporting it.
In the case of Xinjiang, the area is crucial in the Belt and Road Initiative, so the west backed sepratist groups in order to destabilize the region. China responded with vocational programs and de-radicalization efforts, which the west then twisted into claims of “genocide.” Nevermind that the west responds to seperatism with mass violence, and thus re-education programs focused on rehabilitation are far more humane, the tool was used both for outright violence by the west into a useful narrative to feed its own citizens. I highly recommend Qiao Collective’s Xinjiang: A Resource and Report Compilation for more on this subject.
In the context of tighter control between the state and business, it’s important to understand the class dynamics. The US Empire is a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, the large firms and key industries are privately owned, and the state entrenches their power. In the PRC, public ownership is the principle aspect, and the working class is in control of the state. The commanding heights of industry in China are all SOEs, and the bourgeoisie that controls small and medium firms are kept in check by the socialist state. You’re confusing form for essence, by only looking at similarities and ignoring the differences, you come to false conclusions.
Here’s more on the SOEs governing the commanding heights of industry in China:
As for surveillance, the US Empire has a far deeper level, the PATRIOT Act makes that clear. The US never copied China on this, they’ve always been worse. Further, in China surveillance is largely used against capitalists, while in the US Empire it’s used against the working classes.
On to the PRC side.
The PRC is expanding trade, but not dominance, nor does its trade deals come at the barrel of a gun. The PRC recognizes territory that has been consistent with what China had while the ROC held the UN seat for China, until it was transfered over to the PRC, leading to territorial disputes, not naked piracy and invasion like the US Empire does. They also are not “exporting surveillance and censorship systems.” They trade with pretty much everyone, and support their allies, but this is not imperialism.
To the contrary, the PRC is acting against imperialism.
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Is China a Better Partner for Africa than Europe and the West?
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The Fallacy of Denouncing Both Sides of the US-China Conflict
And many, many more sources back this up. It’s no secret that imperialists have been trying to smear China into being “no better” than the west, but the reality on the ground is that partnering with China results in mutual development and cooperation, while partnering with the west results in stripped autonomy, underdevelopment, and exploitation.
🫡 A natural consequence of leftist ideology.
Agreed, I find comrades of all kinds of colours and stripes here.
Capitalist propaganda is rampant on the fediverse. We need to discuss ways to combat this. Most big instances -generalist, tech or something are wholly controlled by bourgeois people who would rather uphold state violence than democracy. What do you think?
What’s rampant is imperial core propaganda. You see the “Chinese propaganda” as “rampant” because you’re used to seeing only imperial core propaganda, which is how the internet looks on corporate media, including corporate social media.
The first step is to understand the media, which Media Bias/Fact Check and the Ad Fontes Media* are never going to teach you. The only people who are taught it are those who get degrees in marketing, public relations, political science, history, and journalism; and even then only some of them.
The new post-Trump/“post-truth” media literacy curricula won’t teach it to you either, because it was paid for and crafted by the US military-industrial complex: New Media Literacy Standards Aim to Combat ‘Truth Decay’. This week, the RAND Corporation released a new set of media literacy standards designed to support schools in this task.
The standards are part of RAND’s ongoing project on “truth decay”: a phenomenon that RAND researchers describe as “the diminishing role that facts, data, and analysis play in our political and civic discourse.”
None of it is a secret, though, and it can be learned.
- Noam Chomsky - The 5 Filters of the Mass Media Machine
- Propaganda model
- Edward Bernays
- Walter Lippmann
- Council on Foreign Relations
- Powell Memorandum
- The Trilateral Commission’s report, The Crisis of Democracy
* I’ve criticized MBFC & Ad Fontes before:
