Billie Eilish joined Bad Bunny in speaking out against ICE during her acceptance speech at the Grammy Awards, slamming the organization after winning song of the year for “Wildflower.”
The singer was bleeped as she said “fuck ICE,” giving strong commentary during the speech. “Thank you so much. I can’t believe this. Everyone else in this category is so amazing. I love you so much,” she said, standing next to her brother Finneas. “I feel so honored every time I get to be in this room. As grateful as I feel, I honestly don’t feel like I need to say anything but that no one is illegal on stolen land. And, yeah, it’s just really hard to know what to say and what to do right now, and I feel really hopeful in this room, and I feel like we just need to keep fighting and speaking up and protesting, and our voices really do matter, and the people matter, and fuck ICE. That’s all I’m going to say. Sorry. Thank you so much.”
Based as hell. Glad the youth is finally looking to people like this as role models instead of celebrities with Histrionic personality disorders like Miley Cyrus.
It’s nice to see the media allowing people to criticize the government again. Sure fuck ice was bleeped but it’s still getting out. The more outspoken the people are the more the media can’t ignore it and must show it. Especially famous people speaking out since they always have an outlet to the masses.
Sure fuck ice was bleeped but it’s still getting out.
The Grammys are broadcast on CBS. Broadcast TV has to follow FCC rules about profanity. Not bleeping fuck would mean pretty hefty fines, and IIRC those increase based on viewership. Cable and streaming services don’t have to follow those same rules.
There are clips that are not bleeped, including the clip on the official Grammy Youtube channel, because that was only done for the broadcast version.
She seems like a decent person.
She is correct and very cool of her to say so.
Popular music was the anti-Fox News back in the day, but it dead now.
Nice to see the echoes tho.
Edit: not sure what people are taking away from this but just to clarify, I liked the popular music that was anti-Fox news and appreciate the current popular musicians doing what they do. It’s just that the music industry - suspect in the best of times - finally succeeded in killing itself and what we have now is some American Idol game show / hype influencer Frankenstein that’s both worse and not popular.
The effect of which is that “Fox News” stands alone.
Most art is that way, because art of any relative depth takes you into consideration and therefore probable empathy, and thus not a Republican.
You’re right. I honestly rather see celebrities in the streets in solidarity with the people, freezing and standing up to ICE. They are condemning ICE in their fancy clothes. It’s just them sucking their own dicks. Everyone hates ICE. It’s not bringing attention to anything. The shootings are doing that.
Don’t downplay the importance of influence. That was a large audience and using the platform to at least say something encourages others to start being comfortable saying the same thing. Most people aren’t the protestors in Minneapolis, including most of us here. By opening the door to outward criticism, people that follow these artists and listen to them are being given further permission, internally, to voice the same opposition.
No, it’s not as brave as standing face to face with tyranny in the streets, but both fronts are worth fighting on.
While I do agree, they should’ve been screaming the message earlier. With more passion. Not “um, ICE sucks. Fuck em. They bad.” They can do both. It’s just most of them are too comfortable in their mansions to go the next step and practice what they preach.
I’m a nobody, but earlier last year I became a community leader and helped organize protests in my red city. Imagine what they can do if they are shoulder to shoulder with the people.
“They didn’t do it on my schedule, so fuck them.”
What an immature take.
Yes, let’s keep putting hope in celebrities. That’s really helped us so far.
I didn’t say anything about putting hope in celebrities, but shitting on them for spreading a message you agree with is really dumb.
If you have influence, you also have the responsibility to make sure your voice reaches as many people as possible. Screaming this message earlier is a good way of lowering your chances of getting access to a mic at the Grammy at a moment where most people are listening.
Everyone was clapping. Everyone agreed. Everyone already knows the situation. They know it’s now safe to speak against ICE so it won’t hurt their bottom dollar.
People with influence should use that influence for the betterment of everyone.
Positive outcomes as a result self aggrandizing really shouldn’t be a problem. Quit with the “it’s not perfect so they should do nothing” rhetoric, it self destructive.
No, not everyone hates ICE, unfortunately. Here on lemmy sure. But this was an opportunity to get a message out to the Fox listeners, the trumptards, the people who have not heard, or don’t believe what’s actually going on.
At this point, nothing will change their mind until ICE is knocking down their front door or shooting someone they care about.
As pessimistic as I naturally am, I actually don’t believe that. The trump administrative lies all the time, Fox News lies and spins an incredible amount, there are constant lies on Xitter. I think they do this because they have to. They know that if the truth was more unavoidable, they’d face much more backlash from the typical trump backers. I’m sure plenty of Trumpers wouldn’t care, but I think there’s a significant group of trump supporters who are only so because they’re stuck in the right wing echo chambers.
f-f-f-f-f-ucking BASED, Every word she said was like it came out of my own mouth, I love the little bastard
More specifically, FUCK YOU KRISTI.
Kurt Cobain making a come back?
I’d like her head intact. Me might need it
Removed by mod
True, but still some land is significantly more stolen than others.
Like what
Name a culture which hasn’t stolen land or had slaves
Inuit
What? This is getting confusing.
Yes probably all cultures had slaves or stole land at some point in time. (This is true, depending on whether you see cultures as fixed in time: are current day Egyptians of the same culture as ancient Egyptians? When does culture “restart”? Who decides this?)
Let me ask you: is there no difference between let’s say a Native American claiming his land was stolen (hundreds of years ago and his people massacred, and he’s now a second rank citizen on his own land), and for instance a white European claiming his land was stolen (by the Romans? During WW2? I would not know what he means honestly, especially because he is now part of a nation state, a first class citizen).
Yes all land was stolen. But this is not an absolute. You wouldn’t agree the Native American had his land quite a bit more relatively stolen?
My point is you can’t invalidate the claim of native peoples just by going “meh, so what? All land was technically stolen at some point”. Some people can make a more legitimate claim their land was stolen than others.
So how does that make “illegal” immigration a bad thing? Or are you violently agreeing?
Removed by mod
So philosophically, I agree with you, but how would the logistics of land use work without something similar to ownership?
Like, how would you decide who gets to live where?
Removed by mod
You can’t guarantee what apple you’ll get from its seed though…
all “owned” land is
this comment section is heavy on the “socially liberal, fiscally conservative” vibes
I cannot have more respect for a person than I have for Billie.
I’m pretty left leaning but the whole “stolen land” narrative will never land with the common person. It certainly doesn’t with me.
I cannot be asked to be held responsible about the actions of people well over 200 years ago. I was born here.
Arguing that someone “stole the land” and thus it’s yours is how you get places like Israel.
That doesn’t sound left-leaning. It’s not about you. It’s not about holding you responsible. That’s a talking point straight out of the conservative victimhood playbook.
And yet that’s what is always implied by these statements. “someone 200 years ago made a choice so you deal with it”
No, fuck that.
Do you have an opinion on DEI?
Removed by mod
DEI tends to encourage the hiring of diverse people because they have been historically underrepresented due to past policies and systemic injustices. One could argue DEI is people making choices due to the behavior of people from previous generations. It seems at odds to support that and not acknowledge some concept of debt owed to people wronged by society in the past.
Also, DEI is not about lowering standards. It’s a pretty common dog whistle to suggest that corpos pick less qualified candidates because of DEI. I’m not suggesting you intended it that way, but going forward it’s good to keep that in mind.
No one’s asking you to take responsibility, just to face reality.
Make a list of land that wasn’t taken from someone else. I’ll wait.
That’s not the point you think it is… It weakens your argument, essentially admitting that no one has the credibility to say the land of a nation is for any particular type of person from any specific place… The Earth belongs to no one, we simply divvy up and take ownership over the responsibility to govern maintain and preserve it, but this entitlement some cling to about god given rights to land is delusion, pure and simple.
Also you’re conflating things; saying “no one is illegal on stolen land” is not the same as saying “since it’s stolen it’s mine”… no one is saying that.
You seem to be trying to argue that might equals right, when the rest of the left is fighting to maintain (or further establish) a rules based society, which is the opposite of might equals right and all that Stephen Miller bullshit.
Removed by mod
Island nations?
Amazon jungle tribals area
Greenland (yet)That’s what first comes to mind.
Maybe you should rephrase your point?
Oh, sorry friend. You can’t prove to me that the people living there didn’t steal their current living space from another community member.
It’s just a stupid concept. You can’t look at any piece of written human history that doesn’t involve conquering land from others.
What’s the cutoff for something being stolen? The immediate area around where I live? A city? Does it matter if the people who came before had a concept of nations or borders?
My point is: immigration policy in the USA is clearly broken for a plethora of ways that don’t involve using some weird idea that a country’s land is stolen. The average person is likely going to look at that part of the claim and latch on to it, contemplating how dumb the idea is. We should probably use arguments that make some sense when trying to convince undecided people to take a logical stance.
You can’t look at any piece of written human history that doesn’t involve conquering land from others
You can, if the land was free of people before you.
I agree. This kind of rhetoric doesn’t really help. I guess I get what she’s going for here, but…trying to get people, en masse, to reject the very notion of someone being here illegally is going to take a lot.
I personally find the over-emphasis on the restriction of the movement of people, while money can slosh all around the world with hardly any friction rather absurd, but I also realize that’s not a widely-held view.
I personally find the over-emphasis on the restriction of the movement of people, while money can slosh all around the world with hardly any friction rather absurd
Um, it’s not the movement of all people that’s restricted; it’s the movement of poor people. If you’re rich enough, you can basically go wherever you want whenever you want.
Oh, of course, but that’s the case with nearly all of the people that I think you are talking about (the billionaires and the centimillionaires) - the rules and grind everyone else has are not really problems for them. But their money can circle the globe even easier than they can…
I mean now they can literally buy a Trump gold visa or whatever.
Stealing land and arguing everyone does it is how you get places like piSSrael and seppoland.
Terminally online alert. The fuck is seppoland?
“B-b-but the “holy land” was stolen from us first!” - Israel
You do understand that same narrative is what they use to justify “taking it back”, right? They’re not there illegally bro, the land was stolen from them.
seppo is rhyming slang for “yank” - “septic tank”. It’s just how australians talk and I thought it was funny.
I also understand this is the reason settlers use https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/4/if-i-dont-steal-your-home-someone-else-will-jewish-settler-says
edit: also you really oughtta readsettlers.org
Removed by mod
The main contention for calling land stolen is if the people settling it displaced other people to do so. It’s possible to settle land without displacing its current inhabitants, and I wouldn’t consider that stealing.
Okay, rephrase… where do people live now where no one was displaced?
(all land has original owners that were displaced)
I reject the premise that there must be some magical land where people have lived undisturbed since the beginning of time for you to even consider that it’s possible to peacefully coexist. There are plenty of places and times where people have settled an inhabited area and did not displace the natives, but no land where no one was displaced for all of human history, and that’s an unreasonable thing to demand I give an example of.
I don’t need a magical land where people lived undisturbed since the beginning of time to consider it’s possible to peacefully coexist.
Of course it’s POSSIBLE.
It’s just rare and temporary
I disagree that it’s rare. In fact, peaceful coexistence is the norm and violent displacement is the anomaly. It only seems like that’s not the case because peace is delicate and unmentionable (what’s there to say in history books about nothing happening?) while violence is sudden and has permanent consequences. A peace lasting centuries can be ended by a single violent event, and that single event will be written about in greater detail than the centuries of peace that preceded it. Our perception of human nature is also skewed by the fact that we’re currently living in a global order dominated by violent settler-colonial factions who have created a system of extraction based fundamentally on theft.
Where has there been peace lasting centuries? Seriously.
Our waves of violence are practically generational , we get brief breaks in between the horrors.
If there are exceptions I am not familiar. Certainly never a century of peace, to my knowledge, or even close
I am not familiar with the history of all of the Earth, I would certainly be interested in any centuries long peace anywhere.
Just picking a random region of the world and looking at Wikipedia’s list of conflicts in Asia, you can try counting the years in the gaps between conflicts and comparing them to the duration of the conflicts themselves. I would bet good money that the average duration of periods of peace in any given region is greater than the average duration of conflicts, and that cumulatively years spent peacefully coexisting far exceed the years spent in conflict.
Notice also that the bias towards violence being mentionable and peace being less so is evident in the fact that I had to do this by finding a list of conflicts rather than a list of peaceful periods.
You’re not incorrect, but the bigger issue is how was the native population treated after having their place stripped from them. It wouldn’t take much for governments to recognise and attempt reconciliation for the idea of stolen land to become less prominent. This is true everywhere, not just in NA.
This is happening right now in SA, and for the same reasons now that we used centuries ago (we need money!).
Who will stand up for the tribes, or for that matter the jungles they live in? Nobody
All we’ve learned since slavery days is a change in semantics with occasional apologies.
The one exception being that island of “hostile” (i.e. wise) natives in the Indian ocean. Our one tiny exception to the rule.
I wish we could learn more about them without ruining it all. Sorry for tangent
Removed by mod
That you don’t even consider coexistence before immediately jumping to slavery as the only alternative says a lot about you.
Removed by mod
You don’t seem to understand the history you’re referencing. Slavery and mass displacement / ethnic cleansing aren’t mutually exclusive, they are mutually interdependent. Empires engaging in settler-colonialism didn’t choose one or the other, they did both, always. Even if they outlawed slavery domestically, they still participated in the trade internationally or in their colonies. Settler-colonial empires still engage in slavery to this day, they’re just better at hiding and justifying it. See: the US prison system and abuse of migrant workers, and the kafala system in the middle east (called the “binding system” in Israel until it was de jure abolished in 2006, but de facto continues to this day in a sort of legal gray area). These days the word slavery makes people squeamish, so we call it things like human trafficking, prison labor, migrant labor, and all sorts of other more polite euphemisms to lull us into the false notion that slavery is a thing of the past - or at the least relegated to a tiny secretive black market.
Removed by mod
Based on your comment alone, I urge you to look deeper into history before you make statements like that.
If you need a place to start, read or listen to the book called: The Heartbeat of Wounded Knee by David Treuer
This book tells exactly how this land was stolen from the Native population.
To your point, many lands have indeed been stolen. Just because it has happened many times throughout history doesn’t erase its meaning.
I’m not claiming that the land wasn’t stolen by “us”, but I’ve looked even deeper into history than you, and know that the exact same land that they lived on was stolen from another population. Repeatedly. It was far from a war-free utopia before “our” arrival.
‘Us’ and ‘our’ being pronouns to represent the colonizers of most modern countries, not meant to include you or I specifically.
I’m native. My ancestors were very brutal, not as brutal as the Spaniards, but still.
I’m also Spaniard, womp womp
p.s. thank you for book recommendation I am interested! Currently reading about Incans/Aztecs/Mayans etc., just finished Popal Vuh and recommend it
You can go somewhere and start living there, that’s perfectly good.
If you torture the people there to death and say nobody is allowed to live here besides you, then it becomes “stolen land.”
Colonization and conquest are unethical compared to immigration is what I am trying to say.
Removed by mod
And the historical method was unethical and backwards.
I grew up in Turkey where people extensively talked about how Ottoman empire was great for conquering so much meanwhile the Kurdish population is treated inhumane to this day.
Conquest is Barbaric and was murder even back then. It’s just a mix of “history is written by the victors” and “time makes people forget” that we don’t judge all countries for colonization.
Removed by mod
I don’t think it’s ethical either, we agree on that!
But I do think being a “colonizer” is practically everyone in the last few millennia, excepting the Sentinel Island natives perhaps and other very rare exceptions to the rule.
The Japanese were colonizers of Japan (supplanting the prior native population), Americans were colonizers of North America, Aztecs were colonizers of South America, English were colonizers of the UK, Romans were colonizers of Italy and most of Europe and North Africa, and so on forever
Removed by mod
I wonder how much longer Americans will have dominion of America?
five years, tops
Removed by mod
I think he is the canary in the coal mine and could never be elected in an actual functioning “democracy/republic”; the mere fact that he is in office means we’re just in the beginning stages of an absolute shit show heavily influenced (perhaps controlled completely) by the heritage foundation/council of foreign relations and their financial backers (it’s actually a pretty fascinating rabbit hole)
I 100% hope that you are right and I am wrong. Maybe we could even get union membership over 10%, CRAZY
Yes. If you want to deport innocent people. move to the Pacific garbage patch.
well there’s this promising landmass of opportunity, just there up north…
Good. Fuck ICE indeed!
Always loved how much she speaks about important topics.
One of the best vegan artists I know!
