I understand that some of the criticism comes from conservatives but the sentiment seems to extend far beyond thst. Of course, I understand it when it’s forced or when someone only does it to survive against their will. But if people genuinely want to do it, why do people hate on them?
my issue…
they are just ads with tits. (yes, I’m being blunt). they come into social settings and post images or whatever, and it’s just yo… you with the penis. give me money because I have tits.
overall, I have no issue with the site. but FFS … STAY ON THAT SITE. don’t come here and advertise your ass cheese. its annoying and the majority dgaf.
this applies to onlyfans because pornstars… well they don’t do that shit. they keep their crap to normal ads (which still suck) and their sites. I have respect for pornstars, I have no respect for onlyfans ‘gimmie money’ clowns
Apparently one of the reasons for advertising off-site is because OF does not have an on-site discovery mechanism. So there really aren’t other options. Not the fault of the performers.
Huh. I would have guessed that they would try to get consumers to subscribe to as many providers as possible and constantly suggest new ones (social media style)
Ass cheese? Link?
tell me you hate women without telling me you hate women
re-reading what you actually replied too.
shut up, you’re an absolute twat
Bro has failed to consider male sex work, or sex work not aimed at people with penises.
In all seriousness this is giving big “I’m OK with gays but can they just not shove it in my face?” energy. Reevaluate how your phrase this argument.
One modern issue is that sites like OnlyFans has caused is a unique type of spam as various models spam in a lot of places in order to build their audience.
I only have a problem with sex work if people feel like they have to do it to make ends meet, or if they are being coerced into it. The latter being a big problem in the porn industry.
The first is a form of coercion as well.
All work is done through coercition Some coercition are worst than other, but the all the worst one are not only in sex works. Fighting for emancipation is done by the workers themselves, not aqainst them
I feel like I have to do my job to make ends meet - how is that different from sex work? Coercion is a different story
Fact is, we humans make quite surplus enough for everyone to make ends meet. Your job is a form of coercion, to make others money. That health care in the U.S. is tied to one’s job is evidence of that. That housing is dependent on mortgages being paid consistently or one risks homelessness is more evidence still. Taxes are coercion by governments to give credence to fiat currency, not because they need it to pay for goods and services… they could print money to pay for goods if that weren’t true. Point is jobs are coercion, and sex workers are under the same pressures I described above, enough that I doubt any sex worker is in it just for their love of the game.
And thus… Sex work is no different to the others
Then why so many sex workers die from drug overdose?
Why do so many people in other jobs die from a drug overdose? Because the world sucks
Sex workers face mortality rates from overdose that dwarf the general population. We’re talking about an external-cause mortality risk roughly 8-12 times higher for these marginalized groups. The direct link is undeniable: studies show a significant history of substance dependence (100% in one cohort) with opioids involved in ~90% of those fatal events. It’s crucial to note these are likely “conservative estimates” because many records don’t capture sex work status.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12405828/
The driving factor isn’t the work itself, but the trauma surrounding it. You see a high burden of PTSD, anxiety, and depression that predates or coincides with substance use. For many, the drug use, especially “polysubstance” mixing of opioids and benzos, is a form of self-medication to numb the violence and stigma
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acps.13559
The overdose is often a direct consequence of criminalization and policing. Research shows that when police target sex workers or create barriers to safe consumption sites, the odds of a fatal overdose more than double (AOR 2.15)
I agree with what you’ve said but I don’t consider these things as caused by the job, rather symptomatic of how the job is treated in society (and how poorly regulated human trafficking for sex work is)
Time to abolish anesthesiologists /s
and that’s why sex workers made their unions too
We are not free. We are just able to choose from a limited selection of approved choices or face retribution, or maybe you can’t even get a choice and that is seen as a personal failing.
I think they mean it’s their only option to make ends meet.
needing to perform sexuality in order to make ends meet is a form of coercion. Like if someone has to grant access to their body, under threat of starvation or homelessness or whatever, that’s coercion. I don’t know how many sex workers are out there with a couple jobs lined up an then say “nah i’d rather do sex work” but within the current framework of gig economies and legally grey/restricted labor I bet it’s not a significant amount.
if someone has to grant access to their body, under threat of starvation or homelessness
But that’s employment in a nutshell, though. A welder rents out his body to a company to weld steel beams for 8 hours a day. An accountant rents out their body to sit behind a desk for 8 hours a day and crunch numbers. A salesperson rents out their body to cold-call for 8 hours a day.
No matter what, we’re coerced into giving or body to perform someone else’s labour. The fact that it doesn’t always involve nudity doesn’t change anything vis a vis your bodily autonomy.
None of them rent out intimate access to their bodies, it’s stupid to think that an account sitting behind the desk is just like a sex worker. Clearly one is in a more preferalble job. Clearly the welder has a better option to barter or organize for collective action, clearly those jobs would still exist in a society where destitute women didn’t whereas the porn industry as it currently is would die out
“Intimate” is a completely subjective term. Some people, like it or not, don’t consider nudity to be intimate and are therefore more than happy to use it to their advantage. Just because you wouldn’t, doesn’t make you the arbiter or what is or isn’t considered intimate.
So, as you say “Clearly being the more preferable job” is a meaningless statement. A vegan wouldn’t rent out their body to work in a slaughterhouse. A pacifist wouldn’t rent out their body to the military. Just because you wouldn’t rent out your body for people to enjoy on the internet doesn’t make it objectively worse than any other profession. It’s just your perspective.
I’m not saying that there aren’t issues in the porn industry. Of course there are, tonnes of them. But renting out your body to perform manual labour or renting out your body for people to look at on the internet are not as different as you think.
That rings true for every single job - I mean individual coercion
and yet some of those jobs would exist in a society without destitute women, whereas the porn industry as it currently is, wouldn’t.
I am personally friends with multiple women (and non women) who do sex work (some do porn) instead of other, more mundane jobs that they are fully qualified to do. There are issues with the industry for fucking SURE but lets not pretend that everybody in it is a hostage, as an excuse to belittle those who work in SW.
people think it’s easy money and get jealous
and people like that never realize just how much work actually goes into it (speaking from personal experience here)
This, it’s purely moralistic fart sniffing. That and folks who can’t control themselves and blame the performers for being too tempting.
This is probably a hot take, but it’s because society has this weird aversion to sex even though it’s necessary for us to continue existing. This aversion extends to sex work in general and is also the reason why the field has so many problems.
I’m no prude, but I also don’t think a lot of porn actors really want to be doing what they are doing. There is a lot of manipulation, drugging, exploitation, and straight up criminal activity that a large porn industry begets. But if you regulate it, if you protect sex workers, if you disallow access for younger people (I’m not for age verification, I’m saying parent/guardian intervention), if you allow the actors to have agency and full authority over their own work, then cool. I think there needs to be a lot more study and subsequent awareness what early access to pornography does to a young mind. I truly believe that porn is responsible for the increase in vociferous misogyny we are seeing with young men, enabled by the manosphere, which is just chock-full of sex predators and straight up pedophiles. To start to even have these discussions though, the taboo around sex needs to be widely removed.
I’ve always been curious about the effects on minors as well, especially with a country like Japan where sex is much more widely accepted and pornography is just out on display in some stores. From what I’ve heard, Japan has always had the mentality that porn would be either unappealing to minors or, specifically for games, would be to difficult for them to actually play because they’d have trouble reading the text. I know that Japan has done studies on other porn related topics, so maybe they have in the past and were able to come to this conclusion.
There is a lot of manipulation, drugging, exploitation, and straight up criminal activity that a large porn industry begets.
I’d be curious to see the stats, but I’d be shocked if this hasn’t gotten much better since like the 70s-90s. For one, OF does allow for freelance work. Also, I’ve seen more and more professional porn outfits that are created/run by women.
Being ran by women doesn’t mean shit. Women can be abusers too, and even can take advantage of that sentiment to assist going under the radar. Look at one of the worst examples, Ghislaine Maxwell.
Sex is still seen as a Taboo. It’s 2026 guys, come on!
You say that, but outside of Europe, I’m fairly sure much of society is getting less permissive since the 60s.
It can only get worse!
Because christianity taught them that sex is bad.
They don’t. Generally, nobody cares. The few that do are just so damn loud you’d think there was a lot of them.
Misogyny.
ITT: misogyny
american puratism has infected the world.
Apologies if i’m wrong, isn’t it puritanism
Because most cultures have been heavily influenced by cultures descended from the bronze age sheep fuckers who came up with the idea of virginity as a way of ensuring paternity and maximizing the price they could charge for selling their preteen daughters to old men.
I think a lot of hate comes from:
- People who are jealous of people with natural looks
- People are jealous of people who have more motivation than them to exercise and keep their bodies healthy
- Men who exercise and work on their bodies but can’t make any money from it
You forgot:
- Bitter incels
Those are probably covered by the other three groups
yep, lots of jealousy
and they never realize just how much work is actually involved
for real this topic always comes along when my bf jokes about opening an OF together
i bluntly respond with “yeah we just need to market ourselves on elon’s twitter for months with teasers and maybe paying for that blue mark while networking with other creators”
Men who exercise and work on their bodies but can’t make any money from it
I mean they can, there are many male OF models and some don’t even work out, you only need to find your place in the market (usually with a kink)
i wish i had this realization when i was younger. lol
back then, i was deeply confused when i learned that people were getting off to a surreptitiously recorded hookup that featured me because i assumed no fancied me; yet there was in in my full glory laughing at the wailing coming from the man i’m pleasuring and the video had over 100k likes/upvotes.
it wouldn’t have made me a millionaire; but it would have gotten me a hell of a lot closer than i will ever be. lol
and at least i got a husband out of the whole affair; i like silver linings. lol
damn that sounds hot no wonder it got many likes lol
you would be surprised, a friend of mine got popular with their low quality gay orgy videos and now lives on Canada and its part of a polycule
sounds like they did better than i did. lol
I mean they can, there are many male OF models and some don’t even work out, you only need to find your place in the market (usually with a kink)
For sure! I didn’t mean “they can’t make money” as in “men can’t make any money”. That’d be absurd.
I meant that “those angry individuals can’t make money from it”. And maybe they could if they tried, but they’re not trying, so they can’t.
You do know that you don’t have to be gay to make gay porn, right?
Of course, I understand it when it’s forced or when someone only does it to survive against their will. But if people genuinely want to do it, why do people hate on them?
Replace ‘porn star’ with ‘slave’ and you’ll understand. There might be a section of the population that would like to be a slave, but we have, as a society, decided that people shouldn’t be bought and sold like furniture.
Of course, the hatred should be aimed at the economic and social systems that allow people to buy others’ dignity, not at the victims of that system.
Having spoken with a few women that have done things adjacent to pornography, their regrets are mostly in regards to the way they were treated by people that were not in the industry. The escorts I’ve spoken with enjoy the work itself, although not necessarily all of the customers.
What you’re saying about the horrors of pornography and prostitution apply to ALL people that need to work for a living. The company I work for buys my time, the product of my labor–which they sell for many times what I’m paid–and even my dignity by forcing me to wear a uniform of their choice. I absolutely do not like the customers that ultimately purchase the products of my labor, but I have little choice if I want to have a place to live, and food to eat.
There are significant differences to being forced to sell your mind, competence and time; vs being forced to auction off the another’s use of your own genitals.
Please explain what those differences are without using any magical thinking that places sex into a sacred sphere of human activity that is holy and sacrosanct?
Or don’t. My point is you can tell how serious a person is when they start talking about the morality of sex by replacing every mention of sex in their point with “boxing”. It’s still a highly physical one-on-one activity that’s a crime of both participants haven’t consented, so if the exact same argument doesn’t make sense when made about boxing then they are thinking magically about sex and not materialistically.
Why do I have to think about sex materialistically?
Because thinking about it magically leads you to idiotic conclusions like “maybe the bronze age goat fuckers really did discover the ultimate truth of sexual morality, and it’s just coincidence that it just so happened to lay the foundation for millennia of Patriarchal bullshit”.
So you have arbitrarily decided that I must think about sex either magically or materialistically.
Good day to you sir.
I mean, I didn’t decide that, that’s just kind of how it works.
Yes, being forced to sell your own mind is infinitely worse. You no longer have your own thoughts; your mind belongs to your employers. That is absolutely, 1000% worse than selling physical labor.
The escorts I’ve spoken with enjoy the work itself
Like I said, I’m sure there are people who enjoy this, but the system is still exploitative and harmful.
What you’re saying about the horrors of pornography and prostitution apply to ALL people that need to work for a living …
Yes. In an ideal world, people won’t have to do any dangerous or difficult jobs. But for now, we can’t start with the worst offenders.
I think there are no worst offenders here, all labor is valid as in all labor is exploitative in a capitalist system
Dignity is very relative here, I think you can be a sex worker and keep your dignity
I think there are no worst offenders here, all labor is valid as in all labor is exploitative in a capitalist system
There is no difference in work quality between painting and coal mining? Teaching children and soldering diodes? Really?
I think you can be a sex worker and keep your dignity
Again, I’m not talking about the exceptions here. Having to sell yourself for money is a horrible fate to most, to the extent that we make laws against that. You can think of this the same way.
I’ve met more people who are proud sex workers then I have people who are proud fast food employees.
I think that perhaps you are letting your disgust for a person’s work color how you feel about the person. Do you feel the same about athletes and actors? They also “sell their bodies”.
As I said above, the people being forced to sell their dignity are the victims, and need help and rehabilitation. My hatred and disgust are reserved exclusively for those who exploit them, and the economic and social system which enables such behaviour.
Having to sell yourself for money is what most people do every day, bruh. Every job I’ve ever had has been a major detriment to my physical and/or mental health, and was accepted only under threat of homelessness and starvation.
Yes. In an ideal world, people won’t have to do any dangerous or difficult jobs. But for now, we can’t start with the worst offenders.
do you believe that all sex work is dangerous or difficult?
do you believe that easy & safe but compulsory work as a means to get obtain food and shelter is an ideal world?
do you believe that all sex work is dangerous or difficult?
Emotional toll aside, putting yourself at the mercy of a stronger person who has already shown that he does not care about right and wrong, day after day, is very much dangerous.
do you believe that easy & safe but compulsory work as a means to get obtain food and shelter is an ideal world?
People do enjoy work when it is pleasant and interesting. Should it be compulsory? I don’t know. Rich people who don’t have to do any work often lose touch with the world. So perhaps even in that ideal world where we have amazing robots that can do anything, we should have people do a little bit of some work of their choice.
But all this is just speculation. For now, the focus should be on freeing people from the most dangerous and difficult jobs.
No, you misunderstand: ALL labor under capitalism is exploitative. ‘Dangerous’ and ‘difficult’ has nothing to do with it. The system is set up so that your labor must be used for the benefit of someone else in order to obtain the bare necessities of survival, and you don’t get the full value of your labor. It doesn’t matter if that’s working in an office doing spreadsheets all day, or as a sex work; ALL labor is exploited under capitalism.
Work is work; sex workers are workers.
See my reply to sakuraba@lemmy.ml.
Are you comparing OnlyFans to literal slavery? You do know that they get paid, right?
Slaves could get paid and buy their freedom in many historical societies.
I think the comparison is about want and need. They do it because they feel forced into it, by some means or another.
Sounds like the same reason I go to work. I need the money because it’s the only legal option I have to obtain food and shelter.
And you would be right. That is what it sounds like. We all get forced into working. Some have to wear a uniform and serve coffee and biscuits, others have to slop 50 year old meat in a dirty toilet - or whatever scenario that makes it more palatable.
Not most of them, apparently!
Sex workers face mortality rates from overdose that dwarf the general population. We’re talking about an external-cause mortality risk roughly 8-12 times higher for these marginalized groups. The direct link is undeniable: studies show a significant history of substance dependence (100% in one cohort) with opioids involved in ~90% of those fatal events. It’s crucial to note these are likely “conservative estimates” because many records don’t capture sex work status.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12405828/
The driving factor isn’t the work itself, but the trauma surrounding it. You see a high burden of PTSD, anxiety, and depression that predates or coincides with substance use. For many, the drug use, especially “polysubstance” mixing of opioids and benzos, is a form of self-medication to numb the violence and stigma
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acps.13559
The overdose is often a direct consequence of criminalization and policing. Research shows that when police target sex workers or create barriers to safe consumption sites, the odds of a fatal overdose more than double (AOR 2.15)
I dated a cam girl for a while, (insert the obligatory “it’s not dating if you’re paying her lul” joke here), and she smoked a quarter per day. It was the only way she could tolerate the work.
Given, she was damned good at her job. She made more in 4 hours of streaming than my roommate and I made in a week combined. She literally made enough to cover her rent and bills in like three or four hours of work. So she could definitely afford to smoke that much, because basically everything after that first stream was disposable income for her. But she would get done with her stream and immediately hit a bowl to try and forget the work. And she’d basically be stoned until her next stream was scheduled to start.
If she had ever graduated to harder drugs, she 100% would have OD’ed. However, it’s also a little disingenuous to compare streamers/OnlyFans models with in-person sex workers. There’s a level of compartmentalization that online sex work creates. It’s definitely still reliant on building a parasocial relationship, but you’re not actually sleeping with Johns in person. Unless you’re doxxed, there’s very little personal risk involved. But with in-person sex work, all of that is inverted. Online sex work is obviously still sex work, but it’s definitely a different type of sex work.
It’s like comparing retail work with an Amazon warehouse. Both jobs suck in their own way, and they’re both fulfilling the same basic purpose of getting products to customers. But very few people would say that they’re the same job, and the stressors associated with each are unique.
While yes, I agree that OnlyFans is sex work, I disagree with lumping the general “prostitute” from the street/brothel with the onlyfans/sex cam worker.
The remote nature keeps unsavory folk away by default (under the assumption that they arent doxxed) while sex work in person is, well, in person.
