• cøre@leminal.space
    146·
    11 days ago

    I don’t think anyone is arguing gender inequality doesn’t exist. Also this is class/power issue not a gender issue.

    • AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world
      17·
      11 days ago

      That’s right it goes in the “class issue” hole lol.

      I get why people see it as a sex issue since most of the rich people in positions of power that seemingly don’t face consequences are men.

      • 14th_cylon@lemmy.zip
        22·
        11 days ago

        most of the rich people in positions of power that seemingly don’t face consequences are men.

        which is just pure coincidence, right? in a world where genders are split 50:50, it is just the men who have skills necessary to reach these positions. no gender bias here at all…

        • AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world
          9·
          11 days ago

          Two things can be true at the same time… but yeah, stay distracted from the class issue it’s ONLY a gender thing for sure 100% no way it’s anything else make sure it’s only about men and gender and definitely NOT class. Lol

            • AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world
              4·
              11 days ago

              Yes. I guess I should’ve made that clear on my first comment. I was more commenting on how people seem to see that men are in these positions, so therefore it’s a gendered issue, and then they stop cuz they think they already understand the nature of the problem but there’s actually more going on than what might seem obvious on the surface.

              I’m just sick of people getting distracted from class issues.

          • 14th_cylon@lemmy.zip
            10·
            11 days ago

            Two things can be true at the same time

            Exactly. So time for you and the other clowns who came with false dichotomy of “it is not gender issue, it is a class one” to shut up.

            You are literally arguing against yourself and you don’t even realize it. It would be funny if it wasn’t sad.

      • EmpathicVagrant@lemmy.world
        4·
        11 days ago

        Plans to remake the square hole video but each shape is a civil struggle painted to make the people fight among themselves

    • phx@lemmy.world
      11·
      11 days ago

      It’s a bit of both, but the gender problem is at least partially derived from the fact that the larger portion of assholes at the top are men.

      Getting rid of them or clipping their wings would likely be overall better for women. Replacing them with a billionaire-class of women would not.

      • liuther9@lemmy.world
        1·
        10 days ago

        Sex doesn’t matter. It is sad that people are blind fighting each other and getting fooled by assholes

        • TheFonz@lemmy.world
          2·
          10 days ago

          I don’t understand people who dismiss an entire gender’s lived experience. How can you be so patronizing

          • liuther9@lemmy.world
            1·
            9 days ago

            Op just baiting to get upvotes. Sadly there are too many comments agreeing with her. Fortunately top comments are the correct ones

            • TheFonz@lemmy.world
              2·
              9 days ago

              I think the men on this platform struggle with any topic relating to the other gender. Case in point: needing to frame every problem exclusively through the lens of class struggle, even if it means demeaning the strugge of women or minorities. It’s weird

    • TheFonz@lemmy.world
      3·
      9 days ago

      Why do you think they are mutually exclusive? I hate Lemmy sometimes. So incredibly myopic and laser focused one particular perspective.

      • GreenBottles@lemmy.world
        2·
        9 days ago

        They aren’t. The Epstein class didn’t exclusively harm women. But nobody likes to mention the male victims it seems.

        • TheFonz@lemmy.world
          2·
          9 days ago

          You didn’t disprove anything though. The perpetrators were predominantly male. Before you start screeching Gisslaine stop and reflect

          • GreenBottles@lemmy.world
            2·
            9 days ago

            M.H. Allegation: A 2021 lawsuit filed in Queens, New York, claimed that the “M.H.” individual was under 17 and working as a high school intern when Epstein “induced” him into sexual acts, causing lasting mental anguish.

            Whistleblower Reports: Some individuals have come forward identifying as male survivors associated with Epstein’s network, including connections to other high-profile figures and trafficking rings.

            Context of Abuse: While the majority of widely reported victims were young females, testimonies and legal filings suggest Epstein targeted young, vulnerable individuals regardless of gender to facilitate his trafficking ring.

    • Garbagio@lemmy.zip
      28·
      11 days ago

      Mmm, there are still gender stratifications within class, as well as class stratifications within gender. The existence of the Epstein class is a class issue; the misogyny of that class is a gender issue; the structural prevention of women to enter that class is both a class issue and a gender issue. And I’m not even getting into race. Like, Oprah dropping nudes is going to be taken differently than Kendal Kardashian, but both are still billionaires, and both would face more blowback than Epstein’s friends within the same eschelon of the owning class.

      • TerdFerguson@lemmy.world
        11·
        11 days ago

        Yeah, agree. Im just talking about the issue as it applies to meme. There absolutely is room for both things

          • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.mlEnglish
            8·
            11 days ago

            Sure but class inequality is what exacerbates gender inequality. Under capitalism anyone who is working class is forced to sell their labor to survive. Women are inherently disadvantaged here because their labor is required for social reproduction. Even assuming an equal distribution of housework and raising kids women have to do the unpaid work of pregnancy, childbirth, nursing, etc. Capitalists will therefore discount the value of a women’s labor regardless of her individual capabilities or productive output. As a result women are often forced to depend on the men in their lives for financial stability.

            Conservatives are hell bent on normalizing this unnatural inequality between the sexes because doing so protects the underlying class inequality between owners and workers. This is what helps to create a sexist culture that even wealthy women have to endure. However, a woman who can live off of the growth of her investments is not facing the full weight of gender inequality that a working class woman must contend with. She does not have to deal with the threat of homelessness, hunger, and poverty that keeps many working class women dependent on men. Her financial stability is already assured because of her class position and the exploitation of the working class. That gives her far more freedoms than even most working class men.

            The obvious solution to the problem is to upend capitalism which is what reinforces class. That creates the possibility of actually valuing reproductive labor and giving universal financial independence to all women. If you just try to address gender inequality alone without upending capitalism you won’t be able to succeed. Even if somehow you did, the vast majority of inequality would remain because most inequality can be explained by class alone. So while its true that gender and class issues are interrelated, abolishing class creates the conditions necessary to abolish gender inequality.

            • guy@piefed.socialEnglish
              1·
              9 days ago

              If you just try to address gender inequality alone without upending capitalism you won’t be able to succeed.

              This but in reverse! If you just try to crush capitalism without eradicating gender inequality you will probably fail. If the working class isn’t even united and equal between its genders how could you muster the strength to abolish the upper class?

              • cecinestpasunbot@lemmy.mlEnglish
                2·
                9 days ago

                There’s a difference between rejecting sexism within a movement and trying to abolish gender inequality. I agree that the former is important for building solidarity. However the latter is likely impossible under capitalism.

          • TerdFerguson@lemmy.world
            6·
            11 days ago

            Idk sort of agree, systemically.

            If you are of high enough class, gender aint a problem.

            Either way, its the class that I have a problem with regardless whether one gender or another.

            I promise I wont discriminate here, believe me.

    • SectoidLexi
      3·
      10 days ago

      Not entirely? Like class is important but the fact is that women get punished more often for having their sex lives leaked than predatory men do.

          • TerdFerguson@lemmy.world
            2·
            11 days ago

            Yeah, maybe I misunderstood the reference. I guess there’s a bit of a joke in there? It’s not really where my thinking is at for the discussion, but probably there is another conversation the have there fo sure.

              • TerdFerguson@lemmy.world
                4·
                11 days ago

                Horrible.

                Would it not be reasonable to think he ignored gender equality because of his values towards women?

                But you’re right, they are tied together, as are all the other cultural class divisions rooted back to the core issue of economic class. That is the problem to solve, not to the exclusion of others, but because the other problems also must be solved.

                • zbyte64@awful.systems
                  3·
                  10 days ago

                  If you listen to the victims they say they didn’t want to speak out and undermine the movement. So at the very least the victims were encouraged to ignore gender issues and soley focus on class issues. Something to consider. I could not care less what the pedophile valued.

  • youcantreadthis@quokk.auEnglish
    69·
    11 days ago

    Im not sure this is the double standard you think it is. Women who are in the epstein files also seem to be getting off pretty easily.

    Not as easily as they would with fresh slave children to rape, but easily.

  • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
    38·
    11 days ago

    The only person serving time for a global conspiracy to rape children is a woman.

    She’s a terrible woman who deserves it, but it’s still telling.

    • phx@lemmy.world
      32·
      11 days ago

      TBH, there was another guy but he is either dead or disappeared now.

      But the factor of whether people get tried for their crimes is much more about wealth and connection than gender IMO. Even in jail she’s given preferential treatment, and I’m sure there are other women who have been involved with Epstein’s Island of evil in additional to the rich men.

      • BygoneNeutrino@lemmy.world
        3·
        10 days ago

        …I’m pretty sure alot of the victims became perpetrators by helping Epstein recruit new victims. If you look into their testimony, they conveniently don’t provide evidence about acts that occured after their 18th birthdays.

  • FlaxPicker@lemmy.world
    31·
    11 days ago

    i remember the 2016 race when identity politics were used as a wedge issue to break up class consciousness

    • TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today
      21·
      11 days ago

      Gender equality is inseparable from class consciousness. The amount of leftist on this platform who are dismissive of feminism is kinda insane. If our class can’t support and aid the most endangered minorities within our own body, why have any hope that any of this is actually about solidarity.

      Feminism is foundational in creating class consciousness in western society, you start from the bottom up. If you don’t upset the social economic hierarchy then there is no reason for disenfranchised minorities to believe a revolution would be anything but a civil dispute within the current hegemony.

      • FlaxPicker@lemmy.world
        1·
        6 days ago

        As a feminist, i wasn’t being dismissive of feminism. i was referring to the propaganda used to push apolitical disenfranchised straight white men further to the right by creating a “radical” boogie monster version of feminism that made it feel anti male and not about equality.

        a similar thing happened with the whole “misogynistic bernie bro” smearing during the dem primary.

      • ptu@sopuli.xyz
        7·
        11 days ago

        I think intersectional feminism had a great shot at lighting issues that different types of folk encounter. Somehow socioeconomic status was disregarded and focus was put mainly on race, sex and sexuality. Which is why poor, white, straight men felt were left out and quite understandably so. It wasn’t a problem with intersectional feminism though.

        • TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today
          9·
          11 days ago

          Somehow socioeconomic status was disregarded and focus was put mainly on race, sex and sexuality.

          I mean it’s not that big of a mystery when considering the American higher education system. Feminist education being dominated by professors from Ivy League universities made it inevitable that it would be learned through the lens of liberal economics.

          Though that’s not really an excuse for self proposed leftist to conflate all aspects of feminism with “blue hair, hate men” that’s so common nowadays.

          • liuther9@lemmy.world
            3·
            10 days ago

            Because it will shift the focus from regular men who usually mind their own business to the real problem - deceptive rich parasites

  • paul@lemmy.orgEnglish
    28·
    11 days ago

    There are high society women involved with Epstein too and none of them have been held accountable. In fact the only woman to receive a punishment just got moved to a min security prison and was given a puppy. Stop using heinous shit to push your agenda

  • Guy Ingonito@reddthat.com
    23·
    11 days ago

    It’s always enlightening to see every time a post about sexism make the front page of Lemmy how many people in the comments argue that sexism isn’t an actual problem.

    • DudleyMason@lemmy.ml
      16·
      11 days ago

      Looks more to me like people arguing sexism isn’t the problem on this specific case, because it’s not. This is a class issue, not a gender issue. Men and women alike see consequences for CSA, as long as they aren’t wealthy or connected enough to have at least a couple Senators on speed dial.

    • TaterTot@piefed.socialEnglish
      5·
      10 days ago

      Honestly, it kind of fucking breaks my heart. I usually love the climate and culture on Lemmy. But every time this shit comes up, there is an overwhelming outcry to try and downplay the role of sexism, to highlight outliers in the data while ignoring the obvious trends, and a fuck ton of lemmings do their best Tucker Carlson impression and “just ask questions” that coincidentally reinforce a misogynistic world view.

  • Doomsider@lemmy.world
    18·
    11 days ago

    The Metoo movement didn’t even scratch the surface. Every single grown women I have had the privilege to talk to has been sexually assaulted in their lifetime. My wife, my mother, and now my daughters.

    The backlash from the Metoo movement has been insane. Cops, prosecutors, and judges have ensured that there will be no justice. The President is a damn child rapist for Christ’s sake. We are absolutely fucked when it comes to gender inequality.

    Still waiting for the Equal Rights Amendment to be ratified.

    • MinnesotaGoddam@lemmy.world
      8·
      11 days ago

      I used to write cheeky notes in the memos of checks to friends and family (eg “for: eye hole widening” or some shit like that) until I learned the bank and your accountant read that shit and if it looked or smelled funny they were professionally and ethically obligated to report it.

      Now I make sure it’s embarrassing just not reportable. (eg “for: butthole removal, 2nd attempt”)

  • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
    15·
    11 days ago

    I don’t think many people deny it’s existence. Right-wingers usually justify it by appealing to nature.

    I, personally don’t think that introducing girl-bosses and cancel-culture will help with the systemic issue that creates this gender inequality.

    • liuther9@lemmy.world
      1·
      10 days ago

      Unfortunately sexist people will continue to generalize. Same as if I call most brown, black people criminals. Glad there are people with brain capacity like you, though the major movement is “some men bad thats why I will call all men bad”