- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
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There’s nothing wrong with the technology, it’s who is running it all that needs to be fixed, with the general f*ckery that is through everything now I miss my 2400 baud modem that was bigger than my computer and dialing in to a BBS.
You have my permission to write fuck on the internet. On the fediverse, Zuck is the more offensive four-letter word.
What the zuck…
Language!
I’ll take the Zuckwit over Bozos or Ellison.
Why did you censor ‘fuckery’ tho?
I like the star in it, reminds me of a sticker, which is an odd mental association but I swear like a sailor while dropping that in fuck.
Fair enough!
Yup, almost 70 and tech is fine. Just use what you need and ignore social media is what I do. I also of course do Lemmy. I ran a few BBS’s back in the day. Oodles of fun.
Algorithms that are specifically designed to addict you are pretty wrong technology in my eyes. Wouldn’t matter who is running it, that tech is harmful.
Okay, but booze, nicotine, and crack were also pretty addictive.
Idk if I’d trade The Algorithm epidemic of the 2020s for wood grain alcohol from the 1920s
Okay, but booze, nicotine, and crack were also pretty addictive.
And heavily controlled, regulated and legislated. Algorithms aren’t
And heavily controlled, regulated and legislated.
Only took a century or ten
Yeah, those are also harmful technologies that harmed societies more or less depending on the historical and geopolitical context.
Right now, the algorithm is more harmful than those because everyone is addicted to them. The sheer amount of time waste and collective brainpower that is being degraded or never even being developed is staggering and will stunt our society for decades to come.
Even fentanyl, while incurring a much more dramatic and tragic cost on individuals, has a fraction of the impact on society that the algorithm will have due to the scale of our collective addiction.
It’s like how wage theft has a relatively low impact on individuals but combined represents significantly more money stolen than all other crime nationwide.
The effects are spread out over many individual people, but it has an overall dampening effect on the growth and development of communities.
Right now, the algorithm is more harmful than those because everyone is addicted to them.
Again, I don’t think you’re acknowledging the difference between chemical addiction and social habit.
If you spend a week without cell phone reception, you don’t die from withdrawal symptoms.
The distinction is not really worth considering except in the context of managing withdrawal symptoms during recovery. Any substance/behavior addiction can be devastating, and trying to say that someone’s addiction is less valid than someone else’s just prevents them from seeking help.
except in the context of managing withdrawal symptoms
Seems like one hell of a caveat
I mean, it is important, but detoxing is probably the easiest part of actually stopping an addiction. The majority of people who go to rehab later relapse, so it’s not actually getting clean and managing withdrawal that determines recovery success, it’s the long term plan for replacing the addiction with healthy behaviors.
People have commuted suicide, though.
Just because it’s not a physical addiction does not men it can’t be as extreme, and generally a physical addiction will end up with nausea, exhaustion, and mood swings rather than death. It takes deep or long-term addiction to be fatal.
They are deployed to addict, there is some benefit to them, Google used one back before they dropped “Don’t be evil” to enhance the relevance of search results.
Now they use it to censor, and sell shit, but it was not a bad technology before it was corrupted.
There is a reason I specified algorithms that are designed to addict. Algorithms in general are not bad technology, but these specific ones are.
There’s nothing wrong with the technology
Glances at the legacy fossil fuel infrastructure
Idk about that.
the general f*ckery that is through everything now I miss my 2400 baud modem that was bigger than my computer and dialing in to a BBS.
A lot of the historical nostalgia is based on biased accounts of past eras.
“I wish I lived in the 80s” is a thing you say when you’re not told about the airborne lead fumes or the acid rain. “I wish I lived in the 50s” is said by people who would feel very differently if they were being drafted to the Korean War.
Yeah, it’s nice that they fixed the ozone and acid rain, but now they’ve gone and walked back what stopped it, so we’ll see it again soon enough.
At least in the 80s there was potential for improvement, in spite of the problems, rather than an eternal spiral into oblivion.
We also were still able to rely on legal protections rather than having it all privatized and laws bypassed by T&C.
At least in the 80s there was potential for improvement
We don’t talk about the irreconcilable damage inflicted during the earlier industrial era. We don’t talk about what modern fossil fuels and plastics replaced.
Nothing about this is eternal. We are no closer to oblivion today than we were during Operation Plumbbob or the Black Plague.
You won’t live to see the end. You won’t live to see the beginning of the end. You won’t even live to see the end of the beginning.
We’re all living through a single footstep on an endless road.
I really don’t think that specific emotion is isolated to gen z.
I remember all the promise and excitement that tech had back in the late 00’s and early 10’s. Things were unique and fun. That’s just not true anymore. Every new software update adds shit that you didn’t ask for and don’t want (AI, ads, removal of user freedom). New hardware releases are either an underwhelming iteration of specs from the previous version, or an unimaginative device that has the same basic look and feel as every other device it’s competing with.
Tech used to be fun and exploratory, now it’s just companies pushing to see how much they can be allowed to exploit you for the least cost.
Don’t even get me started on the 1990s. Every new processor generation actually felt faster. Web pages had blinking banners because the creator thought it looked cool, not to advertise a personal information vacuum. There was no better introduction to the public’s absolutely awful sense of style. But I went from talking to international friends for $0.50/minute to free, and it was amazing.
personal information vacuum
Introducing the new Dyson vacuum! Maybe this is what they mean when they say it’s got a digital motor.
Oh boy. If people would just start seeing that open source still gives you exactly this, but you know, Linux is for incels and shit, I much more prefer being spied on by big corp.
Linux and FOSS tech about to become the new mainstream underground punk rock hangout spot.
And that’s awesome! :)
Always has been.
Well, no. It’s because Linux has never tried to appeal to casual users. Even if you download something like Ubuntu, you still have to jump through hoops sometimes to install things. People are turned off by using command lines.
With Mac and Windows, you just search up what you want and download it.
Compatability is a huge thing too.
I’m a new Linux convert. And I love it! But you’re right. Also, in the past, when I tried to convert (when it was more difficult), the Linux communities then were um, less than helpful.
I remember back then not being super comfortable with the terminal, and they were like “Fuck off and come back when you know how to program simple shit, you fuckin’ newb.”
So I put it off for a long time. Now I love going into the terminal and learning new things. And it doesn’t seem like linux communities are as elitist as they used to be. But yeah, back in the day, I had such a bad experience with them, I actively boycotted Linux stuff. I was just a young office professional and needed my computer to work without a lot of tweaking.
I love it all now though! And I have plenty of time to tweak because I don’t work. Even tho, to be honest, it’s all pretty easy to install these days.
What’s really just depressing is that these companies are more profitable and worth more than ever before. They don’t need to do this. They are essentially tightening their grip on civilization’s throat to see how hard they can squeeze before we all die, for the love of the game.
It’s also weird because they are opening themselves up to being out-competed by a company that isn’t (as) evil. Being not evil is the most valuable market differentiator right now. Companies like Valve that seem to just be sticking with “we have enough money” are like water in the desert.
valve is not public, rest of big tech is; which means shareholders are god and line must go up whatever the costs involved are, including civilization breakdown & climate change mass extinctions
I’m just going to put this here. There are places feel that way again. tildeverse.org
Thanks for sharing!
Things were unique and fun. That’s just not true anymore. Every new software update adds shit that you didn’t ask for and don’t want (AI, ads, removal of user freedom).
Amen. Every time I hear about a new tech product or startup or conference, now all I see are ads, subscription traps, and generally just people looking for new ways to fuck me.
(And I don’t like to be fucked by anyone except Mrs. Wallace)
Tech used to be fun and exploratory, now it’s just companies pushing to see how much they can be allowed to exploit you for the least cost.
The fun and exploratory tech still exists, its just not sitting as a single product on a store shelf in a plastic clamshell package. The maker space is where all the exciting exploration is happening. If you have an idea the technology likely exists to make it happen, and the cost of the parts won’t break the bank. Lots of reuse of cast off out-of-date tech can be integrated dropping the costs even more. While there are even better solutions, if you’re just getting started pick up an old Arduino or Raspberry Pi (not the new expensive high end models) for under $30. Grow from there to microcontrollers like the ESP32 where it gets even cheaper for about $5 each. Learn to solder! Learn modeling and 3D printing! Use an operating system that lets you control your system instead of one that you just have to accept what they give you.
It really is an amazing time in tech if you stop accepting a products as they are, and instead what you want them to be with your own modifications.
It really is an amazing time in tech if you stop accepting a products as they are, and instead what you want them to be with your own modifications.
Yep, but that doesn’t fit the doom-and-gloom outlook that most of Lemmy has. You’re post is totally right on though!
It’s all true and cool if you stumble upon that today, but IMO that’s a bit what OP talks about, esp(or the original 8266), pi and 3d printers were new and fun ages ago. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a fun space but not much has happened the last ten years there (or prove me wrong 😁!)
Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a fun space but not much has happened the last ten years there (or prove me wrong 😁!)
10ish years ago when R Pi and Arduino entered the scene it was a big splash, but the most benefit really only occurred for folks that could take the raw parts and had the ability to built a new solution largely without help from others. Its even better today because you can buy a ready-made Pi Hat, fully documented, with drivers, to dramatically expand the functionality of an R Pi today. 10 years ago, you’d be laying out your own PCB, etching it yourself, and soldiering those SMT components with your own hot air pencil. Now you don’t, and you can access that functionality to keep building on whatever it is you’re actually trying to build.
Nearly everything has a RestAPI now. This means coding solutions are much more accessible for modifications. Software Defined Radio is cheap and easy now, all with over a decade of documented solutions and parts available. This leads to things like Meshtastic and Flipper.
Its a much more accessible space to these cheap and functional technologies than it was 10ish years ago.
Yes, it might be just me but I liked tinkering (and no need for surface mounted parts, legged ones were quite ok!) and coding, writing communication stuff in c++, driving loads of servos by smart interrupt code etc. and feel not so interested in just following say how a meshstatic works or just buy one.
“Everything” also has been built which doesn’t help. Or so I feel!
and feel not so interested in just following say how a meshstatic works or just buy one.
If you’re at the high end of knowledge and skill, as it sounds like you are, you are even closer to being able to take advantage of technology that exists today that is cheap now that most of us. Ten years ago:
- a LiDAR system would have cost thousands of dollars. Today you can buy them for about $100.
- Inconel was only available to the state-of-the-art industrial processes and was very hard to manufacture parts with. Today you can upload your files, have your parts made via additive manufacturing with Inconel and those parts shipped right to your door for affordable prices.
- Computing power has significantly increased. TPUs are bringing down not only the cost of Tensor operations, but the energy consumption needed for equal amount of processing from 10 years ago.
- the cost per kg for delivering a payload to LEO has dropped dramatically in the last 10 years and continues to do so. More orbital inclinations are available on rideshare flights than ever before including many sun synchronous allowing for continuous solar power. Some idiot like me can actually afford to put an object in LEO. That’s freakin’ amazing!
- battery technology has evolved drastically in 10 years for commercially available product from cheap and plentiful LFPs to Na-ion cells that can operation without loss at - 40 °C without power loss.
“Everything” also has been built which doesn’t help. Or so I feel!
I can’t even imagine having this thought. Honestly, with your skill level I am getting the feeling this has nothing to do with the state of technology right now. I’m not going to pry into your personal life, but I’m wondering if you’re facing challenges that have nothing to do with technology, but are causing you distress depressing your interests in things you used to love. I could be way off, and if so forgive me for presuming.
I don’t really know what to say, but thank you is a start, I might actually be a bit down.
So thank you for taking the time (and whaat is Inconel 😁 TIL) writing an uplifting post for me 🙂↕️.
I did tensorflow in 2016(2017?) and LEO is still in over 10-20k a cubsat no? Cool stuff though for real. I do feel like LLM is going too fast to follow in depth, but it is interesting to follow regardless.
I went for a walk, touched grass, and remembered one of my old inventions that I never had the time to build (and my homemade 3D printer wasn’t up to the job, but my new store bought one is, probably).
So thanks again!
I don’t really know what to say, but thank you is a start, I might actually be a bit down.
This can happen to any of us. If you need help, seek it. There’s no shame it in. We are not born with the tools to remedy everything. Many times we need to seek help outside of ourselves. Remember that life is worth living.
LEO is still in over 10-20k a cubsat no?
Nope! That same 1kg cubesat you’re referring to can be put in Sun synchronous orbit (meaning always has solar power exposure) for $5k-$6k on a rideshare launch that launch every 3 to 6 months. Picosats and even Femtosats are all smaller and cheaper with some less than $1k (but you may have to wait years for a launch).
I went for a walk, touched grass, and remembered one of my old inventions that I never had the time to build (and my homemade 3D printer wasn’t up to the job, but my new store bought one is, probably).
I’m glad to hear this! You’ve obviously got some incredible skills and experience. I hope you’re able to recapture your spark. It sounds like you’re already on the path to doing so!
Technological development reached a plateau, but shareholder value still needed to grow!
I just had this exact sentiment with the navigation app Magic Earth. A Google alternative that works decently enough, doesn’t rob my data, and also has a built in dash cam function and is all for free? Sign me up! They just went freemium. Dash cam and a bunch of other features are now locked behind a paywall, and it came with an update one couldn’t avoid. I’m so pissed, and really wish I could have avoided that. Now I’m searching for a half decent alternative.
It boggles my mind how people accept auto- and forced updates these days. I go far, far out of my way to use software where YOU have to go and download an update if you want it.
now it’s just companies pushing to see how much they can be allowed to exploit you for the least cost.
On a directly related note, Linux is so awesome for being the most attainable it’s ever been. Too bad that its own transparency basically ensures that it may never become mainstream… But I still laud absolutely France for trying!
Tech in the 1980’s - 2010’s was hopeful, beneficial, and fairly consumer oriented. Tech today is mostly some sort of scheme for recurring billing while openly assisting the modern surveillance state. It’s no wonder modern tech feels icky.
The thing full of promise turned into the tyrant it swore to never become.
“don’t be evil”
Tech used to promise a better life. Now it requires a subscription and wants your biometrics just to lie about pizza toppings to you. Sounds like gen z is on the right path.
imagine telling someone in the 80s that in the future so communities computers will need your age and will report it to the government.
Tech is still cool, but subscriptions are not. That is why I like self hosting and open source so much.
I feel like gen z caught the full destruction of 3rd spaces that melenials still caught the tail end of.
I’d love a community space to share my knowledge of pre-zuck-thiel tech with. I feel like the complete destruction of 3rd spaces are part of why there is such poor knowledge xfer between z and millennials
Millennials caught the tail end of physical 3rd spaces, but experienced the golden age of digital third spaces. The internet until the mid 2000s was way more decentralised and chaotic.
Instead of anonymous chatrooms and forums as digital 3rd spaces, Zoomers used less accessible proprietary options such as Discord or Twitch instead.
If you have a Hacker/Makerspace near you, you might want to check that out.
Tech has also somewhat grinded to a halt IMO. A 8GB raspberry? Not so much better than a 4GB one. ESP32 with dual core? Not so much more to do with than an ESP single core. 3D printers? More reliable. Etc.
It actually has improved a lot in the past 15 years. The problem is two fault: Enshittification/price hikes and software. Software because people still use Windows, so you don’t feel the improvements. And enshittification in multiple forms like you get less for more money, Raspberry Pi is a good example of that. You are better of with other brands today like BananaPi or just a mini-PC, if you are looking for a small device with some decent specs.
Of course now we also have AI, which made it like 30x worse for every consumer, its not just GPUs or memory, its CPU, nvme storage, … basically everything… So I really hope this AI bubble burst sooner than later now.
My point is that you don’t actually need that extra speed or ram or whatever. And my orange 1GB PI from a decade ago can do anything I want still.
It depends on your use case of course. A simple website is sufficient like you said using a orange pi. Running your own LLM model at home is not sufficient. Or compiling the Linux kernel. Or 4k gaming…
With the exception of LLM it’s just a bit incrementally better? Like I game on full hd, I have an old pc that can compile anything (why do it on a rpi 😁?!)… A simple web page can be done on an esp, and way less if you want the hassle of course.
I mean go ahead, but for me it’s not really better enough to be worthwhile.
And LLM hardware is way too expensive still, IMO.
Xennial here. I got rid of most social media years ago (FB, twitter, etc.) and never signed up for a lot of others. I’m replacing my google pixel watch with a pebble. I’m open to ditching my android google phone as well once something works properly with all the Japanese government and banking services. Thinking about how to degoogle.
It wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows back in the '80s and '90s, but I definitely feel like we should take back some of our balance, security, and comfort (though streaming and recording video can stay).
I’m replacing my google pixel watch with a pebble.
And you make way more money than the average US worker.
I work in Japan and get paid in yen so that seems unlikely. Indeed. I am basically at the median us salary with the exchange rate. I’ve bought two phones in the last 11 years (and won’t replace my pixel 6 until it dies). I also work two jobs.
Put Graphene OS on your Pixel.
Fair point. I was wrong to be snarky without knowing where you lived.
I’m tired of tech being everywhere from cars to toasters I still prefer analog things that do the job and only that job.
I don’t need my internet connected fridg to tell me what groceries to buy while selling my data to insurance companies
i don’t think it’s tech, it’s that tech stopped being something that helps you, now it’s just things that control you, and it’s all so shitty.
being a millennial was nice. almost every new piece of tech was useful and made life easier. but i think it was around 2010ish when it all began going downhill. first, capacitative buttons, then smart everything that didn’t help, just monitor you and sell your data. now so much tech is straight up hostile.
I remember when the first round of capacitive buttons showed up. I can’t find it anymore, but there was an article on a fan site for MP3 players I read in 2010 that showed the comparisons of physical vs capacitive vs touchscreens and capacitive buttons only had negatives. It baffled me when they just never stopped using them on things. That article was burned into my mind and now I see that logic has spilled into a thousand other industries.
Okay so those new buttons only have downsides.
But they are cheaper.
Ooh 🤑🤑🤑 let’s go!!
I’m a bit older than you, I enjoyed tech when it was an escape and communication/education tool not a requirement even my local library uses an internet connected touch screen to locate books.
Yep, it all went to shit about 2010. The Mayans were right.
Mayans predicted the capacitative buttons
New band just dropped.
Hahha
Had a similar experience when SCUBA diving recently. New pressure gauges these days are digital and I still think the analog ones are not only prettier, but also functionally more convenient. You don’t need to be able to read numbers to know you’re getting into the red. Maybe they have some extra feature but I didn’t need it.
Is it “discomfort”, or a full rejection of the values represented by the enshittified tech companies and their LLM-cronies?
“to live in the past” is so fucking dumb, it shows that the person who wrote that title and the publisher who approved it thinks depending in AI, not caring about the data collected from you, jumping into whatever new popular thing and never having any critical thoughts about where this is all going is a good thing and the future.
They’re actually living in the now and making choices from that and for the future, they understand the objectively bad practices and shitty behaviour of the late stage capitalism we’re living in.Bullshit. This sounds like a dumbshit conservative article written in hopes to belittle gen z into boomer thinking.
Tell me without telling me that You didn’t understand anything what was written in the article or you didn’t even read the article?
You beat me to the punch. Yes & thank you. -From a fortunate & somewhat observant and empathetic Gen X’er that owns an honest awareness for not only our generational woes, but all the subsequent generations that the Boomers have F’d over as well.
Maybe we (Gen X’ers) feel somewhat, guilty for not going harder. Perhaps by the time we figured our way through the system we were so initially disgusted by, we abandoned our F The Man ideals and took the route of the Happy Days comfortable Boomer route? Please be kind, it’s late here & this is just more of a rant. Perhaps there are some that may feel somewhat similar? Or not. It is a wide spectrum of people we are considering in this conversation.
It’s universal man. They fucked everything up, don’t blame us (everyone) that we don’t want to use your garbage tech. What do you expect to happen when you suck all the soul and humanity out of everything, out of daily living? People want that, need that, desire that, well, most people.
It was that good in the 90s, enshittification is only more visible now as you have gotten older and better at identifying it.
If I was gen z I would purely hate how I grew up. They got the worst if it. Well, them and alpha.
No wonder so many want to go back, I do as well! Give me all of our civil rights of today (minus US idiocy, I mean actual first world countries ) and take me to 1995-05 somewhere.
I am the oldest of Gen Z having been born in the late 90s. I got the tail end of what the world was like pre-smartphone and gotta say it was better…
Gen Xer born in 1967 checking in. Totally agree the world pre-smartphone was better. People just seemed to be more aware of their surroundings and each other. I don’t blame Gen Z for getting dumb phones and, like, actually engaging with each other. We abuse our tech, and big tech abuses us.
As a gen z who likes to call himself a millennial despite not being one, I can say growing up wasn’t the worst. Yes I saw the end of the wild west of the internet, but I got to experience what is in my opinion the greatest console to ever come out: xbox360.
Not as good of a lineup as other consoles of the past, but where else am I getting games like the Halo games or Gears of War?
The sad thing is they aren’t really equipped to live in any world but the one being created for them. All the education indicators are trending down. They can’t do much without an internet connection and apps
Tbf non Gen-Z would also struggle if we’d remove their internet sevices suddenly.
It feels like everyone in the cushy countries more or less forgot how to exist outside their world“They” can’t? None of us can. It’s not generational, it’s systemic.
Technology has become a way for the rich to extract more wealth from parts of other people’s lives they have no business being in. I sincerely hope we can all get away from that side of it.
The worst damage to computers was done by U.S. Congress in 1972 when they fired ARPA IPTO that invented the Internet and the foundations of everything we now have in enshittified form. The direction was fantastic until then.
The sick sad history of computer-aided collaboration
https://www.quora.com/Who-invented-the-modern-computer-look-and-feel/answer/Harri-K-Hiltunen
(long story)
