All of this leads back to an old rhetorical question I’ve often asked. Why the fuck isn’t the whole entertainment system and car connection just a standard touchscreen and communication protocol?
The fact that I need these proprietary patent-gated apps to use parts of my car, instead of just a driver that could work on any device with the right port, is overtly user-hostile.
Because the greed of corporations knows no limit. They sold you the (expensive) hardware, now they want to sell you the (specific, usually compatible but not really, and slightly buggy implementation) software. Can’t do that with open specifications.
It is rhetorical because that answer is self-evident to many, but you are exactly right nonetheless. It is a major exhibit in the case of why companies must be regulated to act in the public interest, because every time we don’t, they pull this same rent-seeking crap without fail: the “sell me a hammer and charge me when I swing it” routine.
Because many customers expect a seamless experience with zero tinkering
Totally possible with an open standard. Do you have to tinker when you plug in a monitor? Not really. How about a mouse or any other peripheral device? Generally not beyond installing the app, which would be the same with a car.
Friction in the user experience has everything to do with lack of attention and time spent on that development goal, and nothing to do with it being open and standard.
And you can’t have this with open standards…?
Ok, don’t buy Volkswagen. Got it.
Also, don’t buy “connected” cars. FFS, if your car features rely on an internet service provided by the manufacturer, you are just begging for these sorts of shenanigans.
Class action for unilaterally modifying the agreement about feature access after the fact and to the detriment of the consumer.
There’s about 1000 companies to sue for this already
OK…?
Sue ‘em all!
BORN TO SUE
CONSUMER RIGHTS IS A FUCK
鬼神 Sue Em All 1989
I am trash man
410,757,864,530 DEAD CEOS
Hopefully this doesn’t affect me
It does, unfortunately, affect you. Your van does not support GrapheneOS.
Awesome!
That’s a wonderful creature.
10/10, Would ride to the 1990 World Cup with.
I love it!
It’s glorious!
T3 crew checking in
Hell yeah, brother
Nice!
I said long time ago that EU really needs to focus on opening up the platforms. Force app makers to support de-googled phones. Force car makers to support de-googled phones. You can’t become technologically independent if you don’t control the platforms.
That’s the thing tho they don’t want that, they want more control not less. That’s why countries can make e2e encryption illegal now.
privacy-conscious drivers
company’s mobile app
Hmmm.
Is there Lemmy r/sipsTea ?
Why they do this:
After the first three years, Volkswagen is charging ev customers €150/year to see the charge level on the app, remotely start the air conditioning, schedule charge and so on.
Any tinkerer is thinking “well, if I am paying this extortion just to see the charge level on the app, then I want to exfiltrate my data in home assistant or similar, getting better stats and so on”
So they blocked the API with Google play integrity signatures
Now, instead of spending money on engineering ways to block uncertified devices, they could have simply introduced an official API with rate limits and stuff.
The fact that they noticed all those “unauthorized accesses” it’s prove that people just want to pay for a lightweight API access, not a 250mb app that takes 4 minutes to remotely start the air conditioning
After all, we’re talking for €150/year for accessing the data of a €1 iot sim card using 0.0001€ of compute time. There should be enough margin for that.
Too bad the people in charge and developers of sensible mind are not the same people
How are all these governments and companies managing to enshitify everything? Yet, when it comes to real problems like world hunger, child poverty, and exploitation, no one even blinks an eye.
No one makes short term profit off of solving world hunger, so it doesn’t get solved. 🙈
It’s all about spying now infact by 2027 all vehicles mandated to have facial and body scanners that watch you at all times.
Tech bros are taking over and they are building Bunkers because they know this isn’t sustainable and once it hits a certain point people will be out for blood.
They can make safety, fuel efficiency, usability, and comfort improvements AND enshittify things too! These are complicated machines.
The thing nobody is willing to admit is if free food and shelter for everyone becomes a thing, the population would explode. Every system in nature needs a balance. Any organism, animal, living thing, humans included, will increase in population until the limit of resources is hit. We have no natural predators so our population is limited solely by the resources we have access to. Feeding everyone would actually increase the problem of trying to feed everyone.
Time is a resource, and in the modern world where near-full time parental involvement is assumed, it would effectively limit reproduction.
Matter of fact, it is entirely possible that is a significant part of why birthrates keep declining.
so what gives you the right to get all the food instead of the starving people?
I make things that people want, they pay me and I use the money to buy the food from people who are selling it.
Cars didn’t need apps in the 1900’s and they sure as hell don’t need them now.
You don’t need a computer to make a car. But you might need most of one to meet fuel economy and safety standards.
But they force me to pay for parts I can’t use without doing things I won’t and agreeing to things I don’t.
This is highly misleading. Hopefully there’s a link in the article to the original report on the GrapheneOS forums, where they talk about the app update breaking it on multiple platforms, not just GrapheneOS. It does not appear to be a block.
It’s probably just using googles play integrity, that tends to break apps in pretty much in everything that isn’t stock manufacturer android.
It is
All in all, it’s just another brick in the VibeCoded Wall…
when it is only affecting unofficial android systems, and stock roms are unaffected, then it indeed is a block.
Change it from they block GOS to they spy on you. Get it in front of as many people as possible. If they get huge negative press they’re more likely to change.
Just another shitty company.
Holy crap I miss old times 2013 when nobody was even bothering and all bootloaders was unlocked by default no play integrity just do what u wanna do with ur own device
Well, a lot of apps didn’t work very well back then either. As in this case.
What kind of apps were you using that didn’t work very well?
What? Shitloads.
My car is staying dumb as long as possible it seems, I despise these tricks leeching into every new car these days.
Wonder if we can get that Faraday Cage color as an undercoat paint…
When XavDub contacted the German car maker, the company responded that GrapheneOS “is not an official Volkswagen offering” and advised them to contact their OS provider instead.
This is the only official word from Volkswagen in the whole article. To me, this reads less as “We are blocking GrapheneOS users” and instead “GrapheneOS is not something we give any official support” which I think is a key distinction.
It’s not clear what’s different in the update that doesn’t work with GrapheneOS, whether it’s an API call that doesn’t work or if they’ve implemented the Play Integrity API - but I think this article is a bit sensationalist and everyone’s reacted only to the headline.
Why does a car need an android app?
It doesn’t need it, it will drive just fine without app connection, but it provides convenient remote access and control capabilities.
I’d prefer a car that’s entirely analog. What a crazy dream.
My first car was a 1992 honda civic. As time went on and cars cot more modern, i yearned for a more modern car. Infotainment seemed like so much fun, all thr convenient knick knacks and gizmos.
Now, unironocally my dream car is my 1992 honda civic from back in the day
90s Civic or Miata has been my dream forever, I’m with ya.
Two pieces of modern tech, though: security and sound.
90s Civics were notoriously easy to steal, so I’d definitely want something to prevent that.
When I was younger, I’d always dreamed of having a nice sound system in my car, but could never afford to do it. Now that I have a car with a super nice sound system and a sub, I can never go back. No “infotainment” BS tho, just gimme a standard deck. USB support is nice, but an aux jack is all I really need.
In my civic i installed a “killswitch”, which was just a hidden switch to turn on the fuel pump. Not really sure how much that would prevent theft in the real world, but i think it was hard enough to find that someone trying to steal the car would rather give up than spending more time on this car. I had a pretty good sound system, which i wouldn’t need anymore. Infotainment is super overrated, my dream setup now is just something that mirrors my phone
I had a similar switch on an old truck, and it did prevent it from being stolen once. It appeared to have started and moved far enough to get out of its parking space and was left in the lot with the door open.
So it will work if your vehicle is such a sad decripit POS that it just appears to be broken when they try to start it.
We had an old manual Ford Escort that we had drilled the ignition out of and put a switch in instead. No one figured it out without us telling them (friends family borrowing). Ours wasn’t even really hidden, just unexpected… thieves rarely want to spend extra time and effort on unexpecteds.
I have a suzuki samurai that was intended to just be a project car.
But now, I think the highest technology item it has is whatever transistor is firing the spark plugs. Its tempting to just daily it.
I remember seeing guys in samurais off roading down ATV trails and I was always a little jealous.
I’d love to get one to wrench on, but I don’t need another project.
Samurai’s are bananas. I have a modest lift and 30" tires, and it will go anywhere. Its so goofy looking next to a 4x4 truck, its like 1/3 the size of an F150.
Get me a '94 Camry with a nice stereo and I’ll be happy.
This is the millennial midlife crisis vehicle. Not the Lamborghini or Ferrari or Porsche or Corvette. Nah. Something that I can leave behind for my descendants.
I switched to a 1989 VW Golf a couple weeks back. No regrets
I had a 1988 Scirocco 16V. I loved that car but it was not reliable. The tacked on AC and accessory belt system was horrific. It ate timing belts and wheel bearings. The best VW was a dead simple model, the Rabbit or Quantum/Fox chassis with maybe AC if you felt adventurous.
Well there’s always buying an old beater or a classic and restoring it. But you’d have to go more than 40 years back to find cars that are entirely without digital components.
It’s the one modern feature I wouldn’t want to give up. Cooling my car down before I get in it without having to walk out to it is very nice.
That would not even be legal on today’s roads, at least in EU for new vehicles.
I’m a convert for the fob systems. Despite having grown up a locksmith, I still lock my keys in my car more than I’m proud to admit. But ever since I got a newish Avalon, it hasn’t let me do it once. Plus I got tactile buttons for most all control. Ac is still touch screen type buttons, but everything else I get a reassuring click.
Why does car need to be an android app?
I charge my EV using excess solar energy during the day. It’s handy to be able to start and stop charging based on solar output. We also use the app to send map locations to the navigation system. Finally, while I’m privacy sensitive and having a GPS tracker exposing my location through an API I don’t control is dodgy as hell, being able to confirm the vehicle location remotely has come in handy on occasion.
While some neck beards may prefer to live in the 80s, I enjoy using and benefit from modern technology. I just wish regulators would require companies to use open systems. Tech in general isn’t’ the problem. Proprietary tech is the problem.
So you can buy a subscription for the soft locked features like remote start. And so they get you to agree to a location tracking EULA. Got a VW this year and the dealership pushed the app really hard, apparently they have to pay VW a fee if they don’t hit a quota for sign ups.
Infotaiment system. It integrates your audio library, your maps, contacts and other apps seamlessly. You get current traffic info, automatic updates and huge app library (for example CoMaps and many apps for public chargers). Integrated infotamiment system were left far behind years ago.
You get all that through android auto. The manufacturer app is for when you’re not in the car.
Oh, I thought we’re talking about android auto. If this is the specific car app it’s a different story, yes.
