I think it’s very easy to claim ‘woke’ with modern star trek, but I think the issue is that politics used to be more tightly wound into the plot in that they used to express leftist viewpoints in a natural way that served the plot. The episodes were well thought out and were rich with allegory and metaphors.
Now the political views have remained largely the same from before, but the writing has suffered to an extent that things feel forced and no longer serve the plot in a natural way. It’s less thought provoking, and more “here’s the moral of the story”. Which for better or worse only really underscores Star Trek’s leftist views.
You never watched TNG right ? It was literally either a philosophical lesson or a critic of society by episode …
Maybe take a little of that energy you spend watching Trek closely and put it towards reading comments more carefully?
That’s a very valid comment 😂
Sometimes I skim for “what makes this jerk wrong” too. Welcome to the club.
Yes, that was literally my point. I’m uncertain where the disagreement is?
TNG was rich with thought provoking philosophy, you would be left to ponder the morality of the episode long after the fact. Sometimes things were intentionally ambiguous, sometimes not. But the episodes always invited viewers to come to conclusions.
The writing style has shifted from that approach, with modern Trek the answers require significantly less digging, sometimes it feels like the lesson is being underscored. The morality is the same only how it is presented has shifted.
So what I’m saying is the politics is the same as it ever was, what has changed was the writing style.
I’m not even going to place a value judgement on that shift, some might prefer the face value appeal of modern Trek. Personally I prefer the writing style that was used on TNG, you may like a modern series better, either way it’s all good.
You’re acting like Star Trek used to be more subtle when it had episodes like “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”.
I think the problem is that in some of the newer trek, the political references are crude and sometimes tacked on when they are not even relevant.
Valid point, TOS wasn’t always subtle. In my defense I was referring to the TNG, DS9, VOY, (and sometimes) ENT era. Whose writing often felt significantly more polished and less rushed than TOS.
So if you are trying to say modern Trek is written in a style closer to TOS, then yes I 100% concede to that point.
I would not say TNG was particularly more subtle. A gendered alien from a genderless race being put through conversion therapy is about as subtle as Let That Be Your Last Battlefield was. A planet of literal Native Americans in space being forcibly moved by Picard, who finds out he is the actual descendent of a 17th century coloniser, is somehow even less subtle. The Measure of a Man would have worked without explicitly bringing up slavery, but they made sure that it was brought up, and that it was a black woman who did it. Star Trek has pretty much always shouted its message for the people in the back row.
Reread your post and I “may” have misunderstood you at first 😁
Honestly I think the difference perceived by the “too woke” brigade is that a lot of the older storylines featured what felt like exceptions to the norm. Smaller instances of people being accepting. An example might be a trans person existing was a whole storyline usually with a gimmick rather than just a given that was treated as the norm that requires no explanation. Individuals being chill very rarely is their problem. It’s when someone tries to get them to change their ways and accept something as “normal” that they go bonkers
But yeah… Woke is such a non term referring to any cultural advancement of acceptance at scale that of course Star Trek was always “woke” it was culturally transformative and minority aware from the beginning
anyone who whines about “woke” is automatically a bad person in my eyes. at least usage of the word is good way for them to out themselves.
It’s always painful when “normal” people in my life complain about thay shit. Like my sister, she very nice and all and kind of “traditional” in a way, hard to explain. Holy shit, tye stuff that annoys her nor no reason. Sometimes i hear her on the phone going: ugh, yes, it has to be politically correct. Same with that gender stuff, right? I always think like wtf, you have two kids, you don’t go out anymore, you live in a small town and you talk to like 10 people, why in the world does things like that bother you? Luke she even knows transgender guys, she went to school with a non binary person in the late 90, where no one even knew what the fuck is going on. She has two gay friends and a gay uncle and she likes all of these guys, but still rolls her eyes when a gay person is in a movie or they gender swap swap someone. SHE DOESN’T EVEN WATCH MOVIES. she doesn not care at all. I really don’t know what it is, but i know a few people like that who have weird priorities in their lifes or what they decide to make a problem.
i wonder if its severe lack of metacognition. They have heard some awful things from somewhere, maybe some hateful news channel or some person who seems okay to them but also spouts hate occasionally. And then they internalize it without even knowing what is happening because they can’t question their own thoughts. Metacognition seems to be kind of like immune system for the mind, at least that is how I see it.
Its quite ironic how some rave against “woke” when they themselves are essentially asleep. At least personally i consider woke to mean that you are actually aware of stuff. Maybe that is the reason the truely wicked people went so hard on demonizing the whole thing. They could lose everything if enough people “woke up”. Even more ironic how they also talk about stuff like “mind viruses”, when they essentially are about as well in the head as plague zombie is physically. But then again, every accusation from certain kind of people is a confession. The source where all that shit stems from is likely very aware how much their methods resemble how virus works.
And “culture war”.
Trek was conceived woke. If anything it’s moved away from that with its overuse of Section 31 and the mirror universe. And now there’s a war college.
That’s one of the reasons I’ve despised Section 31 almost from its inception. I don’t mind the concept of the Federation having spies and stuff, but an out of control shadow organization who claims it’s secretly running things is a little too X-Files.
That’s one of the reasons I’ve despised Section 31 almost from its inception.
It was intriguing back when it was one guy and you didn’t know if he was sane. Now they’re the Heroic Protectors Of Starfleet! The post-scarcity diverse utopia needs unaccountable fascists slinking around in black pleather behind the scenes in order to function, after all.
Conservatives hated star trek when it first aired in the 60s.
There isn’t a single thing in life that they can just accept as it is.
And now they whine constantly about how woke the new Trek is and how much better the old Trek was because it didn’t hit you over the head with such liberal concepts like racism, sexuality, or politics. 😂
If they don’t control it they can’t accept it
Or if they aren’t being controlled.
That’s not woke. That’s science fiction.
I mean if humans could just change gender/sex/appearance as efficiently as Data’s child, there’d be no problem. You’d just do a beep-beeb-boop and that’s it.
As for nutrek, their problem is not woke. Their problem is stupid.
Their problem is stupid.
Oh, there’s stupid in abundance in old Trek too.
May I introduce you to the concept of allegory.
Sure, I knew a guy who used to wrestle those down in Florida.
Was he fond of Molotov cocktails?
That still subverts God’s will.
Actually, I’m fine with it. Go ahead.
You are not God, you way too chill.
Got any proof of that?
Yes, god isn’t real.
Religious people still oppose trans people existing because of religion, not because the operations are not efficient or not safe.
Tolerance and acceptance for all, including those who believe in God would, to my mind, be the preferred mindset. With some obvious caveats.
I’m just posting a link to a search with no results. No reason
https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=star+trek+woke
Cool of you to provide a microplatform to people whom I assume you deeply disagree with. Very generous.
What are you talking about? It’s an empty search result since the problem with Disco is stupid, not woke.
Unless what you said isn’t true, of course ;)
Why do you insist that I agree with what video bloggers like Critical Drinker think?
As for nutrek, their problem is not woke. Their problem is stupid.
That sentence can be read as “nuteck’s problem is not woke, nutek’s problem is stupid” or “the critics’ problem is not woke, the critics’ problem is stupid”.
Considering the body that the sentence was attached to, the latter interpretation is just as valid.
Language is funny. I apologise for misunderstanding you
Why are so many in this thread grown up as bad people instead of just you know… Well it’s pointless to say because there just going to bring up stupid reasons in response to whatever I say anyways. Hence the bad people.
instead of just you know…
I really don’t… I have no idea what this comment is supposed to mean.
When did it become woke? The Cage. When there was a competent women wearing pants, as 2nd in command and not used as a damsel where Pike occasionally slapped her ass and called her toots.
Not to mention a black woman as communications officer on the bridge. All this happens within the first few … seconds of the pilot?
Not to mention a black woman as communications officer on the bridge.
Uhura doesn’t show up until The Corbomite Maneuver in this shot:
So obviously it became woke in the 3rd episode of The Original Series. /s
Oh damn. Completely forgot about that! Time to rewatch those old scientists again
You forgot even having a black woman as a main character. Even if she was essentially just a space secretary.
where Pike occasionally slapped her ass and called her toots.
Omg imagine if it was tho
It become woke on 2nd season, episode one when they had a russian on the bridge crew.
My biggest problem with NuTrek is that it’s too dark. Not in a “thematic” sense but in “projected photons” sense. I feel like I’m straining my eyes to see what’s happening on the the set.
It’s one of the reasons I loved Lower Decks so much. I could see what was happening.
the lens flare, the dark lighting usually hides bad props or cgi. the writing is also pretty bad. none of the characthers were likable or relatable because they were to “actually types”. except staments and michelle yeoh, only because they were the 2 good actors.
I will say how awesome would it be if children came out genderless till adulthood then they touch a seashell to pick on their 18th birthday. Solve so may problems. STEM becomes more accessible to woman. No pink tax on toys.
Ursula K. Le Guin has entered the chat.
“Left Hand of Darkness” posits a human like society where people can morph between sexes.
Iain M. Bank’s Culture series also has people shifting between sexes. It’s just a thought process and time for them. One of the books the main character has switched a few times but is currently a male and one of his friends is transitioning.
It’s even seen as a little weird if you don’t try it at least once.
“The Ophiuchi Hotline” by John Varley
A lot of body swapping in this book. Very underrated writer in my opinion
Monkeys paw curls, person chose wrong.
Sure. But that’s not reality.
tng had just that situation, genderless species that were oppressed from displaying a "preferred gendered. enterprise had one as well, but a alternative/biological version.
I agree that Trek has always been woke. But I miss the nuanced and thoughtful ways they used to approach it, instead of the smarmy heavy handed anviliciousness that nutrek has become known for
It wasn’t subtle in the 1960s either.
Whatever do you mean?
Oh come on, can’t you see? They were subtle on the left side, I’m subtle on the right!
kurtzman was originally the showrunner for transformer franchise? thats why nutrek was the way it is, too militaristic, and copagandish.
Data is an AI. Its child would also be an AI. Sex and appearance have no lasting meaning to AIs.
The difference now isn’t a matter of woke vs not woke. The stories have become way more interpersonal drama rather than the older sci-fi focused story telling style, and that just happens to make it seem like there are more woke issues being featured.
At least that’s my take on it.
That’s probably a good way of putting it. It seems like there is a greater appetite for personal narrative driven drama in general of late. I prefer a more plot driven narrative probably because I deal with personal narratives more than I’d like to already IRL.
