Homosexuality cipher in Rejoined, holocaust in conscience of a king (hell, Kirk was written AS A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR) , abortion rights in mark of gideon, disabled crewmembers, secularist society, vietnam on taste of armageddon, post colonialism and struggle for national indentiry in DS9, Far beyond the stars, “leave your bigotry in your quarters, there’s no room go it on the bridge” i mean come the fuck ON fakeass fans deliberately being obtuse at this point
enterprise had a gender episode too, but with a 3rd sex, genderless in a complicated reproductive species(vissians)
I think it’s very easy to claim ‘woke’ with modern star trek, but I think the issue is that politics used to be more tightly wound into the plot in that they used to express leftist viewpoints in a natural way that served the plot. The episodes were well thought out and were rich with allegory and metaphors.
Now the political views have remained largely the same from before, but the writing has suffered to an extent that things feel forced and no longer serve the plot in a natural way. It’s less thought provoking, and more “here’s the moral of the story”. Which for better or worse only really underscores Star Trek’s leftist views.
The last time a live action trek actually successfully pulled off morality and plot was when they ripped off Omelas
You never watched TNG right ? It was literally either a philosophical lesson or a critic of society by episode …
Maybe take a little of that energy you spend watching Trek closely and put it towards reading comments more carefully?
That’s a very valid comment 😂
Sometimes I skim for “what makes this jerk wrong” too. Welcome to the club.
Yes, that was literally my point. I’m uncertain where the disagreement is?
TNG was rich with thought provoking philosophy, you would be left to ponder the morality of the episode long after the fact. Sometimes things were intentionally ambiguous, sometimes not. But the episodes always invited viewers to come to conclusions.
The writing style has shifted from that approach, with modern Trek the answers require significantly less digging, sometimes it feels like the lesson is being underscored. The morality is the same only how it is presented has shifted.
So what I’m saying is the politics is the same as it ever was, what has changed was the writing style.
I’m not even going to place a value judgement on that shift, some might prefer the face value appeal of modern Trek. Personally I prefer the writing style that was used on TNG, you may like a modern series better, either way it’s all good.
You’re acting like Star Trek used to be more subtle when it had episodes like “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield”.
I think the problem is that in some of the newer trek, the political references are crude and sometimes tacked on when they are not even relevant.
Valid point, TOS wasn’t always subtle. In my defense I was referring to the TNG, DS9, VOY, (and sometimes) ENT era. Whose writing often felt significantly more polished and less rushed than TOS.
So if you are trying to say modern Trek is written in a style closer to TOS, then yes I 100% concede to that point.
I would not say TNG was particularly more subtle. A gendered alien from a genderless race being put through conversion therapy is about as subtle as Let That Be Your Last Battlefield was. A planet of literal Native Americans in space being forcibly moved by Picard, who finds out he is the actual descendent of a 17th century coloniser, is somehow even less subtle. The Measure of a Man would have worked without explicitly bringing up slavery, but they made sure that it was brought up, and that it was a black woman who did it. Star Trek has pretty much always shouted its message for the people in the back row.
Reread your post and I “may” have misunderstood you at first 😁
Honestly I think the difference perceived by the “too woke” brigade is that a lot of the older storylines featured what felt like exceptions to the norm. Smaller instances of people being accepting. An example might be a trans person existing was a whole storyline usually with a gimmick rather than just a given that was treated as the norm that requires no explanation. Individuals being chill very rarely is their problem. It’s when someone tries to get them to change their ways and accept something as “normal” that they go bonkers
But yeah… Woke is such a non term referring to any cultural advancement of acceptance at scale that of course Star Trek was always “woke” it was culturally transformative and minority aware from the beginning
that conservative version of woke is very different from the historical meaning. they co-opted it and bastardize to say the “n” word without actually saying it, basically they are too chicken to say the actual N word outloud.
anyone who whines about “woke” is automatically a bad person in my eyes. at least usage of the word is good way for them to out themselves.
It’s always painful when “normal” people in my life complain about thay shit. Like my sister, she very nice and all and kind of “traditional” in a way, hard to explain. Holy shit, tye stuff that annoys her nor no reason. Sometimes i hear her on the phone going: ugh, yes, it has to be politically correct. Same with that gender stuff, right? I always think like wtf, you have two kids, you don’t go out anymore, you live in a small town and you talk to like 10 people, why in the world does things like that bother you? Luke she even knows transgender guys, she went to school with a non binary person in the late 90, where no one even knew what the fuck is going on. She has two gay friends and a gay uncle and she likes all of these guys, but still rolls her eyes when a gay person is in a movie or they gender swap swap someone. SHE DOESN’T EVEN WATCH MOVIES. she doesn not care at all. I really don’t know what it is, but i know a few people like that who have weird priorities in their lifes or what they decide to make a problem.
i wonder if its severe lack of metacognition. They have heard some awful things from somewhere, maybe some hateful news channel or some person who seems okay to them but also spouts hate occasionally. And then they internalize it without even knowing what is happening because they can’t question their own thoughts. Metacognition seems to be kind of like immune system for the mind, at least that is how I see it.
Its quite ironic how some rave against “woke” when they themselves are essentially asleep. At least personally i consider woke to mean that you are actually aware of stuff. Maybe that is the reason the truely wicked people went so hard on demonizing the whole thing. They could lose everything if enough people “woke up”. Even more ironic how they also talk about stuff like “mind viruses”, when they essentially are about as well in the head as plague zombie is physically. But then again, every accusation from certain kind of people is a confession. The source where all that shit stems from is likely very aware how much their methods resemble how virus works.
And “culture war”.
Trek was conceived woke. If anything it’s moved away from that with its overuse of Section 31 and the mirror universe. And now there’s a war college.
That’s one of the reasons I’ve despised Section 31 almost from its inception. I don’t mind the concept of the Federation having spies and stuff, but an out of control shadow organization who claims it’s secretly running things is a little too X-Files.
That’s one of the reasons I’ve despised Section 31 almost from its inception.
It was intriguing back when it was one guy and you didn’t know if he was sane. Now they’re the Heroic Protectors Of Starfleet! The post-scarcity diverse utopia needs unaccountable fascists slinking around in black pleather behind the scenes in order to function, after all.
Conservatives hated star trek when it first aired in the 60s.
There isn’t a single thing in life that they can just accept as it is.
If they don’t control it they can’t accept it
Or if they aren’t being controlled.
And now they whine constantly about how woke the new Trek is and how much better the old Trek was because it didn’t hit you over the head with such liberal concepts like racism, sexuality, or politics. 😂
When did it become woke? The Cage. When there was a competent women wearing pants, as 2nd in command and not used as a damsel where Pike occasionally slapped her ass and called her toots.
Not to mention a black woman as communications officer on the bridge. All this happens within the first few … seconds of the pilot?
Not to mention a black woman as communications officer on the bridge.
Uhura doesn’t show up until The Corbomite Maneuver in this shot:
So obviously it became woke in the 3rd episode of The Original Series. /s
Oh damn. Completely forgot about that! Time to rewatch those old scientists again
You forgot even having a black woman as a main character. Even if she was essentially just a space secretary.
where Pike occasionally slapped her ass and called her toots.
Omg imagine if it was tho
It become woke on 2nd season, episode one when they had a russian on the bridge crew.
I will say how awesome would it be if children came out genderless till adulthood then they touch a seashell to pick on their 18th birthday. Solve so may problems. STEM becomes more accessible to woman. No pink tax on toys.
Ursula K. Le Guin has entered the chat.
“Left Hand of Darkness” posits a human like society where people can morph between sexes.
Iain M. Bank’s Culture series also has people shifting between sexes. It’s just a thought process and time for them. One of the books the main character has switched a few times but is currently a male and one of his friends is transitioning.
It’s even seen as a little weird if you don’t try it at least once.
“The Ophiuchi Hotline” by John Varley
A lot of body swapping in this book. Very underrated writer in my opinion
Monkeys paw curls, person chose wrong.
Sure. But that’s not reality.
tng had just that situation, genderless species that were oppressed from displaying a "preferred gendered. enterprise had one as well, but a alternative/biological version.
That’s not woke. That’s science fiction.
I mean if humans could just change gender/sex/appearance as efficiently as Data’s child, there’d be no problem. You’d just do a beep-beeb-boop and that’s it.
As for nutrek, their problem is not woke. Their problem is stupid.
Their problem is stupid.
Oh, there’s stupid in abundance in old Trek too.
May I introduce you to the concept of allegory.
Sure, I knew a guy who used to wrestle those down in Florida.
Was he fond of Molotov cocktails?
That still subverts God’s will.
Actually, I’m fine with it. Go ahead.
You are not God, you way too chill.
Got any proof of that?
Yes, god isn’t real.
Religious people still oppose trans people existing because of religion, not because the operations are not efficient or not safe.
Tolerance and acceptance for all, including those who believe in God would, to my mind, be the preferred mindset. With some obvious caveats.
I’m just posting a link to a search with no results. No reason
https://m.youtube.com/results?sp=mAEA&search_query=star+trek+woke
Cool of you to provide a microplatform to people whom I assume you deeply disagree with. Very generous.
What are you talking about? It’s an empty search result since the problem with Disco is stupid, not woke.
Unless what you said isn’t true, of course ;)
Why do you insist that I agree with what video bloggers like Critical Drinker think?
As for nutrek, their problem is not woke. Their problem is stupid.
That sentence can be read as “nuteck’s problem is not woke, nutek’s problem is stupid” or “the critics’ problem is not woke, the critics’ problem is stupid”.
Considering the body that the sentence was attached to, the latter interpretation is just as valid.
Language is funny. I apologise for misunderstanding you
My biggest problem with NuTrek is that it’s too dark. Not in a “thematic” sense but in “projected photons” sense. I feel like I’m straining my eyes to see what’s happening on the the set.
It’s one of the reasons I loved Lower Decks so much. I could see what was happening.
the lens flare, the dark lighting usually hides bad props or cgi. the writing is also pretty bad. none of the characthers were likable or relatable because they were to “actually types”. except staments and michelle yeoh, only because they were the 2 good actors.
It didn’t become woke after Enterprise, just mostly shitty. With showrunners that like to hide behind the supposed wokeness as a defense against criticism and rightwing assholes happily blaming the shittiness on wokeness.
I got banned from one of the Star Trex instances for saying I don’t like new trek.
It’s not my fault the writing is shit. Try lasting for more than 3 seasons and then defend the show.
It sucks that the smokescreen of conservatives hating new trek for being too woke exists because part of the problem with new trek is that it’s fake woke. It wears the face of progressivism like a skin mask while being a bland representation of an ideal future as imagined by a past era of liberalism that no longer exists.
I have the same problem with the MCU.
There are certain projects that I don’t like just because they suck, not because they have women or minorities.
MCU is pretty much BOBs fault for having streaming, he wanted it to justify the cost of the streaming servicing pushing out slop after slop. from what ive seen, mcu movies, and shows were just promoting the next show or movies.
I like SNW and LD. disc has its moments, and I am perfectly fine seeing alternate universe starfleet. Haven’t watched Picard. Probably won’t.
It’s okay to not like something.
I also wish the writing were a little better, but we can’t all be Measure of a Man or Inner Light.
picard is almost as bad as STD, I wouldnt watch it(how can they drop the borg alliance in season 2, when season 3 came around(plus too many continuity errors in season 3 that were resolved in old trek(like Changelings, the borg queen that died in voyager endgame, it was also quite clear that most of the material was lifted from non-canon novels that fans wrote). LD and prodigy were quite different, and i think hold a better candle to the 3 main series.
Also remember those older sites had stinker bottle episodes along with the award winning great ones. But we can always just skip them, unlike now where everything (except SNW) is a serialized story where no episodes can be shipped without missing details on the overall story. Some characters talk for one scene and it’s like 1/3 of their entire screentime on the show.
I love bottle episodes. And clip shows.
I liked all of them (mainly because i like most movies and tv shows, i’m a simple man) but I also respect other people opinions.
I just don’t understand a significant minority of people’s opinion that they should yuck someone else’s yum. How hard is it for people to just be nice? Kindness is free after all.
I feel similarly to you. Also I’m expecting the next series to come out and people to start slowly finding things they like about disco trek.
Stop downvoting everyone in the thread just because you got downvoted. Votes are public and your behavior is childish. This isn’t the first time i’ve noticed you doing this.
Edit: Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip & remon@ani.social also think it’s funny to downvote people calling out anti social behavior. I seriously don’t understand some people’s logic downvoting for no reason on a site where votes are public.
I downvote people who whine about downvotes.
I seriously don’t understand some people’s logic downvoting for no reason on a site where votes are public.
I was just scrolling and haven’t followed the thread so please be aware that I’m responding in isolation, out of context to whatever situation you’re referring to.
Sometimes I’ll disagree with a part or most of a comment that someone made, however I’ll also recognize that my opinion on it doesn’t align with what the echo chamber thinks. Perhaps I’ll just respond anyway, but often I don’t want to deal with the expected dogpile and personal comments which I find emotionally taxing, so I’ll just downvote instead. In those cases it might appear I’m downvoting for no reason, but there are definitely reasons.
I’m not complaining about downvotes in general. I dislike people who downvote people who mention downvoting (like the two I call out in the above comment) and people who downvote every comment in a thread just because their own comment was downvoted (like bigtyme who i’ve noticed a bunch of times downvoting entire threads just because someone downvoted him).
Neither of those things are conducive to a social web with a small population.
It is imo much more disturbing to see people publicly call out their downvoters and provoke a witch hunt. If any, that behaviour is antisocial and most definitely downvote-worthy.
I downvote people I disagree with and upvote people I agree with. I don’t even check if people downvote me because I don’t give a shit. My comment has 13 upvotes, I don’t even give a shit to check the ratio because I’m just going to assume only 13 people read the comment and bothered to upvote it.
You’re acting like a child. Drawing a false conclusion, stalking me apparently, and whining about something that will be forgotten in a day. I’ve also upvoted people, but I guess you’re a bad stalker. FYI I downvoted your little baby rant.
Fucking pathetic.
Ah okay that makes sense then. I’d seen some comments from other people on here about not downvoting as a dislike button, and I thought that’s what you were saying as well, but it wasn’t.
same, why is trek communities so holier than thou, gatekept? i suspect alot of them are the nu-fans. when i criticized the writing, and why they have to include so much characthers that were the exact oppsoite of og trek, comment removed from those instances. there was a user here that was obsessed with the lgbtq+ couple in std(i think you know who it is, who had a mental breakdown while on lemmy because he was spending alot of time defending his nutrek positions on mutliple platforms), i dont think they played a big role in the show just because they were lgbtq+
It was shitty writing with zero subtly.
Kinda like the original Footloose where it introduces how strongly against dancing the reverend and town is and only later does it slowly build to the revelation his son died after a night of partying.
But the remake has to open with the party and deaths, funeral and banning dancing.
This, well said
exactly this, Kurtzman and the paramount executives were determining the type of content that was coming out of trek. sooner or later TREK franchise was going to run into problems with ELISION eventually.
In hindsight this is what cancelled the SG reboot again, the executives wanted more “audience”, they got mad when the showrunners dint go thier way and cancelled the “new series”.
And I remember the times when Trekkies trashed Enterprise and Voyager as bad and the bottom of the barrel. I always got good and bad from every incarnation of Star Trek. Sometimes the good outweighs the bad like TNG and Deep Space 9 and sometimes it’s the other way around like Enterprise and Discovery.
Not I, said the lion. IMO Voyager is actually worse than some of the new trek, and Enterprise is the worst of them all. It’s just so incredibly boring.
Turns out I just don’t like trek that much. TNG and DS9 were good. A couple of the original movies are good. Some of the episodes in TOS are good too but for the just part trek is just bad writing and camp.
now everyone mournes enterprise and voyager, because compared to nutrek, they were pretty decent.
I’d say Strange New Worlds is way better than Enterprise…
Why are so many in this thread grown up as bad people instead of just you know… Well it’s pointless to say because there just going to bring up stupid reasons in response to whatever I say anyways. Hence the bad people.
instead of just you know…
I really don’t… I have no idea what this comment is supposed to mean.
The difference now isn’t a matter of woke vs not woke. The stories have become way more interpersonal drama rather than the older sci-fi focused story telling style, and that just happens to make it seem like there are more woke issues being featured.
At least that’s my take on it.
That’s probably a good way of putting it. It seems like there is a greater appetite for personal narrative driven drama in general of late. I prefer a more plot driven narrative probably because I deal with personal narratives more than I’d like to already IRL.
I agree that Trek has always been woke. But I miss the nuanced and thoughtful ways they used to approach it, instead of the smarmy heavy handed anviliciousness that nutrek has become known for
It wasn’t subtle in the 1960s either.
Whatever do you mean?
Oh come on, can’t you see? They were subtle on the left side, I’m subtle on the right!
kurtzman was originally the showrunner for transformer franchise? thats why nutrek was the way it is, too militaristic, and copagandish.
