Just wondering about this.
I have a friend who sometimes just specifically craves a certain dish from a certain food chain. (Like wicked wings from KFC or something)
Or they suddenly feel like watching a specific show (Like Boston Legal)
How does that work?
I never seem to experience something similar to that.
Is it common to feel like that?
I think back to times I’ve eaten a thing and remember the sensation, then try replaying the feeling to see if it would be just as satisfying.
At the moment, I’m in the mood for a snack. I’m thinking about the dried fruit I had yesterday and the sensations it elicited when I ate it. Those same sensations of flavor and texture sound agreeable, so I’m thinking that would be nice.
Not everyone has this form of recall all the time. Some people have it intermittently. I asked my partner what she wanted to eat and she said she could not tell if she was hungry or if any food sounded good. I took this as a warning and we stopped at the nearest restaurant immediately. Fortunately, this was the right decision and we both felt better afterwards.
If you’re feeling hungry, imagine the smells of a food. Sense memory tends to run deep in people. If you find that you can’t recall or reject a sensation, that’s okay! Plenty of folks are in the same situation.
I think sense (and emotions) are some of the most difficult things to remember for me. Which might explain why certain things which are easy for others are very difficult for me. While other things are much easier to me than for most people.
… it sounds like the concept of remembering something? And that you liked that thing, and it’s entirely possible to just do it again? Pretty normal stuff
Pretty normal stuff
For humans it is normal. The “simple” function as you call it, is actually the foundation for consciousness.
Plus memory, and probably some chemical trigger (like dopamine or some other).
For me it’s not simple though. Does that make me non-human? I’m really surprised this is considered a basic thing.
Does that make me non-human?
Nah. Human experience is much more varied than most people ever realize.
It does make you interesting.
Obviously you have memory. Which is a foundation for consciousness.
I do have memory, otherwise I wouldn’t be able to give my own personal experiences in these comments.
But I also know that in a few days I will have forgotten that I even made this thread.
I suppose it’s normal for most people. Somehow it’s difficult for me to remember what I like? Is that strange?
One example is that I don’t like pants with sideways pockets, I prefer them to be straight. I can remember this now, but when I actually go out and buy pants (which might be in a year or so) I will likely not remember at that time and buy the ones I don’t like again.
Somehow it’s difficult for me to remember what I like?
I used to have mini-panic attacks when asked what I prefer.
Now, I just have memorized good enough responses that I won’t be unhappy with later.
Is that strange?
I’m told it’s not usual. So I guess so?
I used to lock up on questions like what was your favorite vacation. I would literally try to remember every vacation I’ve had (already very difficult) then try to compare them (almost impossible)
So usually I would have no response.
This also made learning language difficult, because during practice they ask these kind of questions all the time. But I wouldn’t even be able to answer in my native language. They just thought my language was not good.
I think its just a sudden crave of taste and it is represented via familiarity.
eg: craving something sweet or salty
that person just associated the salty with the wings.
youll find this with some people will crave gummy worms or specific chocolate bar and its just the sweetness.
later in life as you learn how your body works youll just grab the closest thing available if that thing isnt around.
The boston legal thing i get cuz once in a while dont we all crave a bit of James Spader now and again? that’s a flavour you cant substitute.
Maybe i’ve never really spent time learning how my body works and what I want. I’ve always felt like I shouldn’t really have any needs because then I would take space from other people. Not sure where that comes from.
Put your hand on a hot stovetop. You’ll rapidly become overwhelmed with the desire to remove it.
Ha, that’s definitely the case for me. I would even say that I’m more sensitive than other people in that sense.
But that’s more about avoiding or disliking something (which I can tell relatively easily) I don’t seem to crave or desire specific things though.
So most of my life is decided by things I want to avoid, rather than things I actually want myself.
I think even my choice of studies and work was made that way, and now I realise that I don’t really like those either, and I don’t know what to do instead.
I don’t know if you do (and it’s none of my business, so I’m not asking), but if you suffer from depression, or are on some medications for it, a lack of enthusiasm can be a side-effect, and a review with your doctor may be needed.
Not currently using any medication. Except for my stomach because I was vomiting almost every day for the past weeks.
I think a lack of enthusiasm has been kinda the default for me for as long as I remember
I think a lack of enthusiasm has been kinda the default for me for as long as I remember
I’ve had life phases like that.
It doesn’t bother me as much, today, as it did, in the past.
Now, I focus on the things worth avoiding while I wait for my enthusiasm to return.
For me, enthusiasm returns, in bursts, eventually.
That’s nice to hear. I’ve had this one day this year, where I was feeling… I suppose I would call it ‘safe’. And then I would have motivation to do things, and when I watched a tv show, I could actually feel a bit the emotions of the characters in the show.
First time i’ve experienced something like that.
There’s a… “activation potential” for each need and want. If it get’s over the inhibitors (like, you lazing on the couch), you’d get to it.
And the wants are mostly fed by relation and wishes.
While in the case of food, it’s mostly the chemical lab in your belly telling you from experience, that you need something (with more weight on calories-dense stuff (evolution), so, careful).Well, it’s a bit more complex than that (with “levels” of channels, mutual influence, etcetc), but that’s the gist of it.
For me i think it’s your brain giving you an incentive to eat something you need nutrient wise, most of the time it’s bog standard hunger you need calories to function and that’s the fuel gauge light coming on.
But if you are needing iron maybe you want meat and you want something that fills that particular need. If a dish covers multiple bases with veggies meat and carbs it may be more generally desirable because it meets several criteria.
It’s still not something i feel very strongly but i think some people experience it more because they are more in tune with the needs of their bodies.
I wonder if there is a way to improve this faculty of knowing what you are missing. Perhaps some kind of elimination diet where you would eat enough calorie wise, but stick to only a few ingredients. Then you might be able to feel like you still want to eat something, but it will be more specific?
* Not a doctor or professional, just rambling as a lay person *
Brains are complex, but seem to boil down to input in, output out. The inputs are sensory stimuli (sights, smells, etc) as well as various hormone and other chemical levels in your body and brain. The outputs are things you think and do.
The brain will use chemicals like dopamine and serotonin to encourage behaviors. Dopamine acts like the “remember that thing? ohh that would be really good right now” messenger chemical, and serotonin is the feel good reward messenger chemical when the task completes.
Those chemicals have to actually attach to receivers in cells to work, and other chemicals can take their spot under certain conditions (this is why caffeine keeps most people from getting sleepier — it takes up the space that the “we’re getting tired” messenger chemical would otherwise attach to).
* Again, not a doctor or professional, just rambling. *
But If I had to guess, some part of that process is not working as expected in your brain. Dopamine not being produced when it should be, or serotonin not attaching when it should be, or something like that. If you also experience symptoms of ADHD or depression and/or your symptoms impede your life or otherwise bother you, you should consider seeing a psychiatrist to narrow down what’s actually happening and find possible solutions.
I’ve been to a psychiatrist and many psychologists, but I never seem to be able to communicate my problems with them. They just see a person that seems fine and is friendly.
I have tried medication in the past, but they always make me feel more overwhelmed and at some point I have to stop. I haven’t really tried much though.
Only meditation seems to help a bit, but I need to do 2-3 hours per day to notice a small change.
I think this is the general formula:
The Serotonin decides (expected reward). The expectation of biggest reward in the shortest span of time with the least amount of effort and sacrifice of other things.
If time is prolonged, the reward needs to be bigger.Being hungry moves you towards the food, not being hungry will move you towards the TV show.
If he is not that hungry he might choose the TV, but if he gets hungry while watching he might change his mind and go for the food, despite being in the middle of the show.If money is short the dish will decline in priority, especially for people with functioning frontal lobes.
But there can be many many factors that are weighed not consciously but emotionally. Research shows we are way more guided by emotions than we think, we do what our emotions tell us, and then we rationalize it afterwards to convince our consciousness that it was in control all the time, despite it wasn’t.
A significant part of our emotional state is actually controlled by bacteria in our stomach! So it is not entirely the brain alone as another comment claims. But it is signals that are sent to the brain, so in that way the brain remains the ultimate decision maker.So what is going on when people don’t get the right signals?
Like if I don’t drink for a full day, I don’t experience thirst. But sometimes I do. Not sure what makes the difference.
Once, I tried to just drink a specific amount every hour or something. But I also had a situation where I had to vomit (just water) presumably because I drank too much in a short while.
Is there some way to train yourself to be aware and able to tell these signals correctly again? Nowadays I usually drink something when I feel a headache because apparently that is also typical for dehydration.
If you don’t get the right signals, it definitely is detrimental to having the right behavior.
Regarding thirst it is well known that elderly people don’t feel thirst to drink as much as they should.
This harms the kidneys and people may actually die earlier from such a thing.I am not aware that this can be trained. You should ask a professional, if you urine is dark yellow you should definitely drink more water.
Somebody told me to check the color to know
Problem is that, since I don’t drink that much, I also don’t go to the toilet often.
Especially when I was still working. I would forget to go to the toilet.
I would typically only go once per day or maybe once per two days.
If my memory was better I could probably just remember to drink often enough.
Things like drinking water is about attention, not so much about memory
Maybe there are too many other and stronger sensations for me to be able to notice and pay attention to my thirst?
IDK how you’re experiencing things. If it’s “ahedonia” it could be that the signals aren’t reaching your conscious part or that it didn’t learn to process them meaningfully
I’ve noticed the specific food craving thing around my period. It needs to replace iron or whatever, so I suddenly want a hamburger.
But how does that connection happen? Is my body releasing hormones in a specific way that my brain understands before and after the burger, and then in the future, the “give me iron” hormone is translated into fantasizing about hamburgers by my brain?
https://www.parents.com/what-to-know-about-pregnancy-cravings-7507166
I figured pregnancy was when people get weird cravings the most. Hormones go so wild then, it really makes me think hormones are the culprit here, with the brain translating them as best it can.
The like three articles I looked at on this all warned about how pica (craving for nonfood items) might mean you have low iron.
https://www.mdpi.com/2673-6357/6/3/26
The connection with iron and pica makes me think there is something concrete going on here (don’t eat concrete. go see if you need iron supplements). But your hormones and brain are both flailing around trying to keep you alive, so it can get weird.
Outside eating, the craving is probably the desire to return to some feeling. Music especially seems to get associated with times and people who were around then, and specific states of mind. I permanently associated one song with a cool scene from a story I was reading, and now I get an echo of the feeling from that scene when I hear it. And when I want that reading a cool action scene feeling, I can listen to that song on purpose.
TLDR; probably brain translating desire or need by making us want things it associates with filling those needs. With food, hormones seem involved.
I rarely listen to music because I can’t really concentrate on anything else while music is playing.
I do like music though, and sometimes I have a random song playing in my head. Makes me wonder whether that is also related to some moment or memory then. I can’t tell though.
For me, the food I eat and stuff I watch on TV do two things: they either provide novelty and stimulation (new stuff) or comfort (old, familiar stuff).
As a person who is AuDHD (autism and ADHD), I really need both to thrive (or sometimes just exist).
So, if I feel under or overstimulated, my brain will crave whatever will help get me to equilibrium.
At least that’s how I see my system when it comes to cravings and whatnot.
I was also diagnosed with both autism and ADHD.
But my experience seems to be a bit different. I’ve spent a lot of time playing games or watching shows, but I never seem to be able to stick with something for long.
It’s almost like I’m trying to avoid thinking, and I need something new to keep working as a distraction.
I’ve never rewatched a movie or show, and also never really replayed video games after finishing them.
I also never crave playing or watching something specific. So I tend to go by whatever I have in my list or what’s new at the moment.
The more of your comments I read, the more convinced I am you have severe CPTSD and have existed in a state of dissociation for so long that you don’t know any other way to be. I have a friend who’s exactly the same; childhood trauma (which isn’t always what you think - my friend considered their childhood to be pretty good and didn’t realize how it was affecting them) caused them to shutdown so hard, they never felt any emotions until their 30s and just acted on logical reasoning. They’re in therapy now and have slowly been relearning how to feel and connect with their body’s natural impulses.
I think this might be the case, but how do you even know you are dissociating?
I used to have difficulty talking and still have difficulty remembering things. It’s easier to talk nowadays, but it’s still quite effortful. And I usually talk about generalities rather than my own experience.
I can’t really tell if something happened in the past, but I do know I avoided almost everything. I just stayed in my room for most of my childhood.
I lived with my parents for 30 years. But I don’t really know a lot about them.
I also just used logic for everything I do for most of my life. But I’ve been finding it more and more difficult lately to do anything. I don’t seem to have the will or motivation anymore.
What kind of therapy is your friend doing? I’ve been to therapy before. But I never found it helpful. I tend to just talk about whatever the other person wants to talk about.
The same way you are now, by realizing other people experience things you don’t, and asking a lot of questions. My friend describes their therapist as “unusual” in that she has good insight into his thought patterns and knows how to explain things so he understands. It can be hard to find a therapist that works for you, but I’d suggest looking for one that is autistic and has experience dealing with CPTSD. The specific treatments that have helped my friend are IFS, learning about psychology/trauma, and having someone safe to openly discuss it with.
I always felt a bit different than most people, and just not sharing experience which seems to be common. But at the same time I’ve heard it’s not really good to compare yourself to others.
I would say all therapists are unusual to me, because they are able to remember what we said after our session. Write a report about it, and continue where we left of in the next session. For me that feels like an amazing ability to have.
I think I’ve never really felt that safe with a psychologist. Especially if they are talking much, I tend to just agree with them and I can’t really think very well at the same time.
It also seems like they have no idea that I’m feeling distressed.
I often would cough and vomit before an appointment, but be relatively ok during (because I’m focusing on the conversation), only to be exhausted afterwards. But none ever mentioned me looking stressed or anxious or anything.Would be great if I can find somebody who is Autistic and has experience with CPTSD. But I have no clue how to look for that. And I don’t really live close by a lot of options, and traveling far drains my energy fast, so I can’t really do much in the session anymore, apart from sitting there and listening.
I’ve read a bit about IFS, but I can’t even imagine different parts of myself. Seems like very difficult to work on that
Not gonna lie, it’s difficult to work on all the things you’re mentioning. Repressed memories, out of touch with emotions, unable to think and talk, general lack of drive, chronic exhaustion, isolation. They can be worked on, but it’s a hard process to go through.
You can literally search for “neurodivergent therapist cptsd” in your area and see who pops up, they often list their specialties online. Maybe you can find one that does virtual sessions so you don’t have to travel? You’ll also need to flat out tell them things like “I don’t feel emotions and want to know why” because they can’t always guess what’s going on (or not going on) in your body. Tell them you have trouble thinking during conversation, too. You’re allowed to take as much time to answer, even days, if that’s how long you need to process something. Right now you’re in the habit of automatically doing what you think is expected of you (fawning/people pleasing), but one of the first steps in undoing trauma is learning how to prioritize yourself and your own needs instead. This is why having a safe person is important; when your nervous system is in survival mode (which is probably most of the time for you currently), you’ll just keep dissociating and not be able to think, feel, or communicate clearly.
I’ll send you a DM with more info.
Yeah, I’ve always felt like it was an uphill battle. All the things I’ve tried in the past I usually give up after some time. Even things like medication seem to have very limited or sometimes opposite effects on me.
I tried virtual sessions before, but find them not that useful to work on the things I have trouble with, if that makes sense? But maybe somebody with the right experience would still be able to make it work.
It was suggested to me to focus on some form of somatic therapy, rather than talk therapy, to first learn how to listen to and understand the signals my own body is sending to me.
It’s only recently I even understand that my emotions don’t seem to work like they do for typical people. I’m already glad I have some more specific direction to look for now.
Thanks for your comment
Have your parents always been strict with you? Wanting kids to be “seen not heard”?
Not really.
I don’t remember much but I feel like they were just absent. My father was usually abroad for work.
My mother was working full time and also taking care of me, my sister and my brother. I’m not sure how she managed as I don’t recall there being a nanny or something. I do know that my brother needed a lot of attention though, so my mother was happy she didn’t need to pay much attention to me since I was just sitting in my room and being silent.
Do you have rejection sensitivity?
https://www.verywellhealth.com/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-8728800
I checked the link you sent me and a lot does apply to me.
I know that I have a strong reaction in general when something doesn’t go well. But I am also scared of showing or expressing it, so it seems like I subconsciously suppress my reaction. Instead, I will feel pain in my stomach or a headache.
I also wouldn’t say I have heightened emotions, but maybe I’m just feeling overwhelmed most of the time, so I end up feeling numb.
Evolution explains it. Hunger = need food. As we evolved, our needs got more complex and it’s no longer trivial to identify specific needs from behaviors. If you crave KFC, maybe your system needs sodium, protein, and 11 other herbs and spices. Boston Legal is a popular show because it makes many people’s brains produce some of the neurotransmitters they need at the moment. If you fall in love, your brain might think the person would maximize opportunities for reproducing over time. Different humans will fall in love for different reasons as their body attempts to satisfy different combinations of needs.
Makes sense that your body would let you know you need food when you are hungry. But can it really be that precise?
Does that come with experience, or with certain experiences of deprivation? I’ve heard something about pregnant women craving dirt because they don’t have enough iron or something?
But for me, I’ve never experienced it like that. Even if I don’t drink for a full day, I don’t even feel thirsty. I do feel hungry, but rarely for something so specific.
It’s not specific or precise. You cast a wide net to meet needs based on what your brain thinks you need and where you can get it. The part of your brain that says I’m thirsty might not work well but some other part convinces you to drink anyway, otherwise you wouldn’t be alive. Your nutrient needs can get met by a variety of sources. Maybe your system adapts well to just the basics. If it gets x proteins and y carbs, it’s happy. The part of a brain that develops cravings in other people hasn’t needed to develop in you. Or maybe stomachs needs a certain nutrient that yours produces naturally while others have to seek it out.
I usually drink when I have to take medication. Or when my friend who takes care of me tells me to drink.
I actually wanted to try to not drink anything for a day (or maybe two) just to see if there would be a specific feeling that pops up that makes it clear that i’m thirsty.
Haven’t tried that yet though, because it seems kinda dangerous maybe.
Some people aren’t picky at all in my experience. Like my cousin Jack. He’s always ready for a meal and doesn’t care what it is as long and someone else is buying/cooking!
Regarding activities, I usually find I crave certain activities when I get burnt out on other activities and need a break from that activity while staying occupied. For instance, if I’m doing a lot of writing at work, I may crave a spatially stimulating activity at home. It is my mind signaling I’m doing too much of one activity and I need a different one to keep from wearing out.
How do you experience this craving?
Like what do you feel that makes you realise you want to do a spatially stimulating activity at home?
To me it’s amazing you can tell something like that!
It’s hard to describe as a physical sensation. Best I can do:
If I’m craving a hamburger, I get a very strong, vivid memory of the feel and taste of biting into a burger, and a strong belief that eating a burger would make me feel very satisfied right now. The same way that, when I’m thirsty, I instinctively know with certainty that drinking is what would make me feel better.
I am not able to do something like that…
I can remember things, but usually it’s kindof like a list of facts:
- I know there is a KFC nearby
- I know it’s on the corner towards the main street
- I know they sell burgers.
sometimes I can even visualise kinda in my head what a burger looks like, or what the place looks like. But very vague. I cannot remember things like feelings, emotions, taste, smell, those kind of things related to the thing I’m thinking of.
If I’m craving a hamburger, I get a very strong, vivid memory of the feel and taste of biting into a burger, and a strong belief that eating a burger would make me feel very satisfied right now. The same way that, when I’m thirsty, I instinctively know with certainty that drinking is what would make me feel better.
Drug addiction can be described this way as well.
It isn’t a conscious choice, but something where I’ll identify that I want to do a certain activity when I have free time or I find myself coalescing around a set of interests. I’ll make the choice or find that I’m changing what I picked based on different tasks at work.
I don’t think of the reasons when I make the choice, but I do recognize the trend after I’ve made the choice. It has also helped me recognize when to park certain hobbies that I’m working on because I know I’ll come back to them, but I know my mind needs something else and it is better to let my mind go for something different than to burn out completely on one hobby because I killed the joy I had in it.
I have this happen often that I would choose one thing and just keep working on it until I’m completely exhausted and cannot work on anything anymore. Then I usually drop it and never return to it.
It’s almost like other people have this compass to guide them what their priorities should be, but I don’t seem to have it.
The idea that humans only have five senses is crap and a lot of those senses are ways to help self regulate. And it turns out that, as people can have bad eyesight or the ability to smell things, people can also be bad at those self regulating senses.
So that’s like bad interoception then? But can that be improved?
Or is it just like bad eyesight that you’re stuck with that for life?
My understanding, and this is very basic and not well understood, is that the research is only really starting to probe this topic and some issues may be related to the neurospiciness of some people.
To use a machine related metaphor, I don’t know if they’ve figured out if the issue is with the sensor, the wiring from the sensor, or the control board not being wired to read the sensor. It could also be a mix of different reasons that just happens to show to in a set of people.
It is a long winded way of saying I don’t have an answer to your question.
Yeah, im surprised I can’t seem to find much information about this.
I think for me it seems more about the ‘control board’ though. Because there are moments, usually about a day or two per month, where I seem to be able to tell my needs. So then you would think the sensor is fine.
Usually on those days I write a lot. So that I have some pointers later for myself when I eventually forget again
On my commute I like to play a game “what Iam in the mood for?” - I usually have to discard the first three things, then focus on foods I usually don’t think of.
First three if interested: fried chicken, tenders chocolate bar (Milka) and cake. Tho sometimes I do play what kinda cake I would want.
Usually I end up not eating anything ftom the list - but I have fun without gaining back weight.Probably your friend has a ‘background process’ that supplies him with what in the mood answers all the time.
I wouldn’t even be able to come up with 3 things.
I would just think, seems like I’m hungry or something. What should I do? Just go home and look at the fridge I suppose
It is more active thinking than conjuring out of thin air. Like when I pass by an Italian restaurant i will ask: carbonara? (Pizza is on the too easy answer list) Meatballs? Canolis? Passing a burger joint would make me think of which burger would I get… like do I want a chicken sandwich (then I would realize that it is again on the too easy list) or do I want the burger from Shake shack? Or in a mood for InnOut?
Who knows maybe if you try this method it will work for you. It doesn’t hurt or vosts money :D tho if you have bad impulse control I can’t guarantee that you won’t gain weight!That still sounds difficult. But maybe it’s just a skill I never practiced?
When I think of some specific place, I don’t really come up with example dishes, unless I check the menu.
Maybe that’s also the reason I never really needed impulse control to prevent me from indulging in something. I’ve always been somewhat underweight, and never smoked or drinked. Don’t drink caffeine either
Maybe you have a different trigger.
How about thinking about… Getting a 3d printer part, getting some new tool from a hardware store, getting a new game, trying a new table game, getting a new book, getting new equipment for … Sports / computing / gaming?
Edit: some more: getting new make up, trying a new sport or hobby, thinking of upcoming projects for yourself, hone decoration, gardening, getting a new kitchen gadget, looking for a new sourdough/beer/wine/cocktail recipe…Not really.
I mean I do like trying new things, but usually I don’t have energy for it. And when I think about something, I don’t really feel much, just analysing whether it would be useful for me.
I used to spend more time gaming. But recently I realised I didn’t really want to play any specific game, I was just gaming to avoid feeling uncomfortable. Focusing strongly on anything basically has the same effect.
I haven’t played any game for months now.
I’m sorry to hear that. Honestly it seems you are in a bad spot at this moment.
Depression can take many forms and loosing interest, turning everything dull / gray can be a symptom.
Hope you can find joy in some little things! There are many things in life that if you notice them - they can brighten up your mood. (Just do not read any news, for real).
There are good things out there, you might just need to look really hard.
Maybe start small and start making a list of what good / happy things you saw a day - start with one and eventually you can find more. (There were days when I struggled putting down anything.)I think that’s the reason I kinda stopped browsing on reddit and even Lemmy. I don’t really ‘feel’ sad when reading all this news, but I think it still brings me down somehow.
I don’t really have much people to talk to though, so I still try to ask questions from time to time.
I think it’s already nice that so many people answered.
I understand it as “brain hunger” rather than actual hunger. Ideation around food noise, you know?
Brain hunger is a very good description IMO for what is probably a conditioned unhealthy dependency.
