Peace be with you, F-Droid Community. 🌹
As many probably know, Google will block Android starting 2027.
Here is my hope: Google has shot itself in the foot with this Darth Vader move, because many People who loves privacy will now switch to de-googled systems, because ( Since to my knowledge), the blockade won’t affect those systems.
So this is just my Openion and my HOPE.
What’s your take on this?
And I kindly say to all developers: Please don’t register in Google.
There are so many people using de-googled systems now, including myself. Please keep going for us, and four you too. Please
Best wishes from Germany 🌹
because many People who loves privacy
almost 12 of us … i jest but seriously, everyone using Apple and >90% of Android users don’t care. Google knows this and they just bang on about this being best for Android users to ameliorate any concerns around governance issues.
Even many supposed staunch, so called privacy advocates, will complain they can’t change because banking or some such, so they stick with the status quo as every minor inconvenience is seen as an insurmountable wall.
So i expect some bloviating initially and then acceptance. In 5 years, no shits given (headphone jack, expandable storage saw the same sort of thing)
tl;dr press x for doubt (x)
You would be surprised. Google privacy practices have a bad press. I’m hearing random people saying they got a "de-googled’ phone at my local hairdresser. Also, the cheapest chinese model are not “Android-certified”, so potentially also de-googled.
Motorola will release a phone with GrapheneOS in 2027, it would be a good pick.
Ironically they’re the top government surveillance camera manufacturer where I live on deflock
Well, since I never took time to master phone magic, now they are going to give me a push. Thanks, I guess
I started the journey about a year ago. Huge boon to my life even if I don’t work anywhere near tech.
I tried to open up an issue (and did a PR) suggesting a developer strike as a tactic (IE open source devs adding their names to a list to promise to remove our apps from google play if developer ID goes through) on the KeepAndroidOpen repo. As a dev whose made many android apps and have them on both f-droid and google play, I thought this would mean something.
The maintainers of that repo have been ignoring me to death since April. I was told by the maintainer that the project was “leaderless”, but in reality it seems they’re very opposed to a developer strike, otherwise my PR would’ve gotten more attention.
I work on an Android app for a small company. Google doesn’t care at all about Android devs except if you’re running a huge social media app or P2W game. I’m pretty sure they expect blowback from the OSS community and their plan is to simply ignore it.
There are some really popular FOSS apps for android, that are also on google play. Things like tasks.org , all the fossify apps, termux, joplin, ankidroid, thunderbird / k9, and many more.
These being potentially removed from google play by developers due to a developer strike, would have more of an impact than KeepAndroidOpen’s current top strategy, which is for users to mass email their country’s regulators, which are easily ignored by either politicians or google.
Developers don’t want to strike because a strike means no pay because we are not unionized. It’s hard to unionize when it’s easy to find a new job for people. Our leverage is just leaving. But publishing on specific platforms don’t have that option.
Must be a US based/themed online “protest”
“We want something to change”
“We aren’t going to do anything drastic for the change”
“Nothing changed? Oh well!”
They almost always seem like a controlled opposition set up to make people believe, gain support (artificially at first to deter competeting protests that are more radical), but once it gets popular it doesn’t accomplish anything, won’t listen to ideas, input and feedback from the community and fold as soon as they aren’t required.
If you or somebody will create this initiative, please create a post about it on Lemmy! (Or ping me here if you’ll remember.) It’s a good initiative! Worth the attention. I’d also be curious to know which developers have committed to the strike and which haven’t.
I don’t have the energy to start something and try to rally a bunch of devs, but I would join it.
Is there a change to an app in Google TOCs that can get folk to get app from F-droid?
For example: “Free features for this app only available on play. New features and enhancements available (paid or) for free through f-droid.” Or if you cannot openly advertise in the app, “Visit our website to get enhanced features and updates” with clear documentation on how to install and permit f-droid and get app through there.
That way, big app devs can create moves to f-droid, normalising it and chipping away at googles power. The more apps, the more legimate f-droid seems to normies.
Ideally done as soon before switchover as possible. Even reach out to content creators.
It moves from protest, to protest and solution.
So, did I understood correctly that just getting pixel with GrapheneOS is way out?
it’s a way out, probably the easiest and most reliable way, but not the only one.
Also you don’t have to use graphene, it kind of annoys me that it keeps being pushed as THE option when lineageOS also works perfectly fine and has a long reputation as well…
Sooooo the way out, is to pay Google a thousand dollars for their phone…
If that’s a bother you could get it secondhand
Still props up Google’s phone business.
Yes. Bonus if you get it used just make sure it’s completely unlocked. A carrier phone is not unlocked and is a pain in be butt to get unlocked. I can’t remember what instance it’s on but there’s a graphene community.
Edit it’s !grapheneos@lemmy.ml I know some instances don’t interact with .ML though
What about Morena phones? I am at the moment considering what to do, I am ready and want to get for myself and my family, just don’t know what.
@Newhere @greatwhitebuffalo41 I’ve been a #Murena #eos happy user since 2020. If you don’t need Google, Microsoft or other evil ecosystem apps, you’ll be fine.
The community forum helps a lot:
https://community.e.foundation/latestI personally don’t know anything about them so I’m not really helpful for that I’m sorry.
So, did I understood correctly that just getting pixel with GrapheneOS is way out?
I can’t really say anything about that, sorry. I’m not familiar with GrapheneOS or Google Pixel. As far as I know, Play Services can apparently be installed in a sandbox?.. but I didn’t quite get it either. So I can’t say whether the system will be affected by Google’s rules. Sorry I can’t help further.
I’ll be serving as the tester for a de-googled phone, hopefully, next month for my family. If all works within expectations, we’ll be moving towards no google phone until the end of the year.
I’ll be getting a Murena phone.
Murena is a great alternative. They have relatively cheap and ready-to-use models.
That’s great to hear. Good luck! I wish I could de-Google my family too.
I’m currently testing /e/OS from Murena myself, but on a Fairphone 6, not a Murena device. The system itself is fine. Takes some getting used to, but no problem. Hope you enjoy it =D
I haven’t had any problem on my Fairphone 6 with eOS except Android Auto wont work without the Play Store installed. I do miss being able to split screen apps like I could in stock android, but that’s not exactly a “problem”
@qyron @AuroraSine
Murena with e/os then.
I’ve had one for 3 years.
Just fantasticMy brain just equates murena to Morena the birth control IUD and I have to pause to go wtf every time. I love that everyone is trying new things. That’s how we build better options.
My plan exactly, but on a later schedule - end of the year for me. I’ll go for the cheaper gs6
That is what I intend to get as well. But it would be welcome seing Murena widen their to the entire Gigaset line, like Volla as done.
Don’t forget about the new automatic Google play services check that app developers can enable with a single click on build. That automatically blocks the app from working on any degoogled ROM
So they’ll be like iPhones?
When this was initially announced, and they said they wouldn’t backtrack (which they have somewhat, for now), I actually did switch to an iPhone. I figured if Android was to be as closed as iOS I might as well try out iOS & see how it goes.
Hardware-wise, holy shit it’s so nice, the device was bliss to use by comparison to my android phone.
But having ads on youtube, having a shit browser (since literally every browser on iOS is a different skin of Safari), it’s so bad. I switched back to android in something like a month (my main use for my phone is watching youtube with Revanced).
Mind you, I’m in the EU, Apple has set up the 3rd party thingy in such an inconvenient way & with so little incentives for developers that there is nothing outside of the Epic Games Store.
If Android ever becomes like this, I think I might as well just switch back to a dumb phone.
Orion browser and DuckDuckGo browser are really good on iPhone. Orion can use extensions and DuckDuckGo blocks Youtube ads.
I’m thinking about GrapheneOS, but I’ve heard it can be a pain. I use a VoIP number so I could just switch to a tablet, iPad is cheaper than iPhone anyway.
@CommanderCloon @grayclouds @fdroid
Just use e/os…I would use an alternative OS if any were compatible with my device
I know, I’ve checked around various alternative OSes but none have my device, and it’s fairly new so I’m not pressed to switch :/
But thanks for the recommendation!
Sadly yes
I think my current phone will be my last normal Android phone. My next one will be either Linux, Graphene or iOS. In that order of preference.
What type of Linux phone? I am thinking of switching too, but I’ve heard Graphene OS is a pain to set up and it makes you seem like a drug dealer.
why would it make you seem like a drug dealer?? no one will even know what’s running on your phone lol, no one cares
Whats the point of those videos? It makes me not want to use the OS.
i assume you replied to the wrong comment?
No, I mean the videos about how the cops will think I’m a drug dealer if I use the phone.
graphene is super easy to install and set up and literally no one thinks im a drug dealer
So all those “the police will arrest you if you have this phone!111” youtube videos are just paid hype…
It’s about using the duress pin feature to wipe the device when law enforcement asks to hand over your phone.
Sure, but I saw these ads before that.
I’m not quite sure yet but I’m hoping there’s something nice by the time I quit Android. Maybe something like Ubuntu Touch on a decent phone?
Yeah, Ubuntu Touch. Less likely to get compromised if you’ve got an uncommon phone, right? I know Ubuntu OS already.
Maybe I’m out of the loop, but shortly after Google announced this didn’t they backtrack and say they will let you install unapproved apps after changing a setting and waiting 24 hours?
An afaik undocumented workaround isn’t exactly evoking trust, particularly coming from Google. Also wtf 24h cooldown to install shit on my own device?!
They said that, but similarly with how they said they delayed switching their extension API after backlash (they’d break adblockers), they ended up doing it later on. That’s what they’re counting on here as well, unless there’s a lot of loud backlash and this hits their bottom line they will eventually eliminate that option down the line imo. They have every incentive to do so.
^This.
Even if there is immense push-back for this right now, they have told everyone what they want to (and eventually will) do. The wake up call we need to focus on is an alternative. A fully functional mobile FOSS OS (I personally hope for Linux, but honestly don’t want to restrict the options if there are others that would be better).
I was doing Android development recently and apparently the official SDK builds needed to build the app aren’t FOSS, and actually FOSS versions are difficult to get. I still can’t wait until Linux phones are a thing, Android is such a shitshow nowadays and even GrapheneOS is still at the mercy of Google’s ecosystem. (also still no aarch64-linux support for the build tools either)
I think it impacts any system running Google play services, even if you’re on GrapheneOS. Is that everyone else’s understanding too?
I can’t find the post, but I recall the Graphene developers saying this would not affect GrapheneOS because of the way they have play implemented. Play services on GrapheneOS is sandboxed, it does not have permission to enforce this check.
But it will affect GraphenrOS users if less developers will make FOSS apps because its harder to distribute them
Agreed
Okay neat, thanks for the explanation
well for one, you don’t even need play services for all apps downloaded from the play store. and for another, even for the ones that do need it, play services run as an unprivileged sandboxed app, the same as any. so it can’t enforce anything google wants because it has zero control over anything.
Phew, thanks for the explanation
Not fully what you’re asking but this was posted on their official Reddit
Google has already had to change how they plan on implementing their blocking app installs from unregistered developers after a lot of backlash. “Sideloading” will still be possible, as we’ve all learned from recent news. The 24 hour wait does add some friction to the whole process, which is the point of course, but it’s far less bad than some people are trying to make it seem. 24 hours, then it’s over and the user is free to install apps as they please.
This “sideloading” restriction is not even the biggest problem right now. Play Integrity is worse and does affect us directly. The effects of Play Integrity are showing up in multiple places, like now apps can’t be installed via Play Store, maybe Aurora in the future, apps refuse to run, Play Integrity verdicts are worse if an app was installed via another source than Play Store, and Automatic Protection has Play Integrity features being added. It’s a far bigger problem. It causes enough friction for some users that they give up on GrapheneOS or other non-GMS OSes to go back to whatever stock OS they had before, one complete with Google apps with privileged access and awful privacy. This other issue just got a lot more attention, and I’m guessing because it’s easier for people to fully understand.
We have been in touch with EU regulators about Play Integrity and I hope that can continue in the future. Google isn’t going to change things because a small group of people are complaining. We need regulators to help with big issues. We need to find a way to make them understand what is happening. Play Integrity is a big example of them locking things down under the guise of “security.” Fixating on other smaller issues is, in my opinion, less effective and a waste of time and resources. The “sideloading” thing has enough attention and opponents to the change have had some success.
You do not need to install Play services on Graphene. You can. You can also install MicroG, or you can skip both and use NextPush or ntfy.
Hey, honestly I don’t know much about GrapheneOS. I only know it’s available for Google Pixels. But you’re right. All Google-certified devices will be ‘locked down!’
Maybe it’s time to consider SailfishOS as a real alternative to Android (which remains very closely linked to Google)?
I’d rather see non-proprietary mobile Linux like postmarketOS, Mobian, or Ubuntu Touch.
Are any of these really getting traction? postmarketOS seems interesting?
postmarketOS is the best bet, but it’s still suffering from opensource-itis (as in: it’s so early in development that it’s borderline unusable for normal tasks)
User counts are still pretty low from my understanding. Device support is spotty at best, and even devices with support might not have every piece of hardware working properly, so just how usable it is depends on your device and your technical skills. If manufacturers made it any easier at all to make drivers, that’d probably change quickly, but that hasn’t happened yet.
Things are coming along, though. More and more apps work well with the mobile form factor, though definitely not all. There are Android emulators so you can run Android apps when you need to. I think we’re currently at the point where if you have the right device, some technical skill, and some stubborn will to make it work, you could actually daily drive it. Most probably won’t want to yet, though.
Check out the work u/TheMightyCat has been doing for FairPhone 6 + postmarketOS
the open source community response to this is a joke. not prepared at all. we’re totally fucked.
we’re not “fucked”, things will continue working just the same on any phone without Play Services installed.
This is a shitty situation but let’s not pretend like it’s the doomsday… Even after it goes into effect android will still be incomparably more open than ios
Hey. I’m trying to see everything positively though. I know its sucks, and im angry too. But how secure can a Google-certified device be AGAINST GOOGLE anyway? I could only deactivate the systems, which is why I wanted to buy an /e/OS device. And the news from F-Droid that Google was going to pull this shit was the kick in the ass I needed to finally buy a Fairphone with /e/OS.
I think it is great that you are putting your energy into something that feels meaningful to you. But we also need to make sure that we don’t waste our energy on something that doesn’t burn us out.
The current message has low energy, which means that the energy doesn’t spread so easily. What we need is high energy which means that energy spreads easily.
We need a high energy message. A message that empowers the individuals, makes us dream, makes us want to contribute to the movement.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts so openly. Sorry my message came off as “low energy” to you. But to me, it still holds up logically. Google makes money mostly from ads and our data. The more people boycott their products, the less funding goes to things like Project Nimbus. De-googled setups, a phone, an app, a browser, give me hope. This isn’t just about privacy for me, it’s about human rights! And i hope ther will coming more Alternatives.
Again: Thanks for sharing your openion so openly.
what do you mean? what would you have the community do?
I’d expect us to be organized enough to be prepared for google removing our foundation. Instead all we’ve got is a countdown timer and a call to pressure a fucking evil company into “doing the right thing”.
it’s as if we are begging on our knees to extend our execution date. I don’t feel any motivation about putting my energy on the line for this weak ass energy.
To be fair, this has been an issue from the start, and barely anyone cared about it until now. To put into perspective, the whole PC environment has evolved to be open within its fundamentals - Standardised components, user servisable parts, and ability to control what OS is put on.
In the case of phones, propriatery is the norm. No standardized components nor freedom, just the fact that we are doomed from the start as a single corpo essentially owns your phone not the other way around.
If something where to change it would be separation of the manufacturer from the OS and the premise of a free bootloader. Of course this is what’s happening right now with google-free phones; of course, this should’ve been done sooner - but at least this will work as a catalyst for the future devices.
I’d love to degoogle but all of the state programs that I am in use Google and my emails that they have are in gmail. You don’t get to have privacy when you are part of US programs.
I’m thinking of taking a government job and why is that you have to do that as part of a US job? What if I just show them I got a flip phone, what will they do?
Idk I’m on the other side as one receiving the support not giving it.
Can’t you use your gmail account inside a standard mailing app like Thunderbird? As for the other google services, maybe they work in browser?
Is there a program or a way to tell what apps currently on ones phone will be affected by this?
Is there a program or a way to tell what apps currently on ones phone will be affected by this?
Hi.
As far as I know, there is no program with which you can check this.
But, I know that for example F-Droid apps on Google-certified devices will no longer be usable, because these apps are not registered in the Play Store. According to the KeepAndroidOpen page, this will no longer work.
I want to add: According to the Samsung Galaxy Store Seller Portal, apps that are already installed will remain usable, just without updates.
Hopes, that helped.
fdroid apps can use a reproducible build instead of being signed by fdroid. In that case the dev can use their own keys and also upload to the play store under the same keys. From memory I think the fossify suite apps do this, so could in theory be approved by google.
In practice it’s unlikely though, the process costs money, requires giving identity documents to google, and also makes your app subservient to them, giving them full control over future updates, revocation, and making you dependent on their arbitrary rules for what apps are allowed to do.
other people are posting their experiences with degoogling on lemmy and that’s how i stay informed.
Is your OS stock with Google on it? Change that software to something without Google
