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Screenshot of a Tumblr post by nongunktional:
when i first heard about the male loneliness epidemic i was like oh yeah close camaraderie and bonding between men is often discouraged in favor of competition or, if not discouraged, at least filtered through a lens of individualism that precludes deep connections. and then i learned what people meant by it (men arent getting laid) to which i say skill issue
to all the men out there not getting laid: try less hard to get laid and try more hard to be an enjoyable and relaxing presence
Going anywhere in public to socializing is expensive as hell, third places are dead, and the primary way people meet potential SOs is through apps whose purpose isn’t to make anyone happy but to extract maximum value from them.
There are people who are off the deep end, yes, but the answer isn’t to attack them like this. That’s never going to snap anyone out of it, and there really are huge societal problems that are resulting in people withdrawing, which is obviously bad for their mental health.
This is one of those “people hate every piece of capitalism, but refuse to connect the dots to see the picture” things.
Yes exactly.
I found a local private club where drinks are cheap and there’s tons of regular customers. Feels like what the Cheers bar seemed like on TV.
That sounds cool as fuck
It’s pretty great. Everyone is really chill and if you just want to find a comfy chair and read you can do that, too.
I can’t wait for football season, not because I particularly like football, but because I like watching football with everybody.
And a few drinks and a couple appetizers are like $60, tops.
Oh, and the bartenders know your favorite drink and will just start making it when you walk in.
third places are dead
I’ve heard this line quite a few times. But… as far as I can tell, camping is still absolutely a popular past time. Parks and beaches are still a thing. Gyms and bars and clubs are as crowded as ever.
This reads much more like a meme than reality.
There are people who are off the deep end, yes, but the answer isn’t to attack them like this.
There’s a lot of mass media that’s screaming at people about how women and men are natural enemies and the only path to intimacy is through sexual assault.
Absolutely attack this ideology. Drag your friends back from it if you can. Mock and deride the notion if you can’t. Don’t tolerate the intolerable.
there really are huge societal problems that are resulting in people withdrawing, which is obviously bad for their mental health
Absolutely. So throw a party. Invite people out to do things. Mix and mingle.
Mocking and deriding people is very effective at radicalizing them, please do not do that, it consistently makes the problem worse.
I get that they would deserve that behaviour if they are advocating sexual assault, but if you care about that person, or the cultural issues they’re succumbing to, or the rising sentiment that men have to be rapey to ever have success with women, please don’t do that, it’s detrimental to the cause.
Mocking and deriding people is very effective at radicalizing them
To your side, certainly. That’s how hazing works. Exploiting people’s insecurities by calling them cucks and betas while presenting a facade of success and popularity is the Andrew Tate Special.
Piercing that bubble and outing fanatics as weirdos is necessary if you want to break their grip. If you’re tolerating abhorrent behavior - or, God forbid, rewarding it - you’re reinforcing it.
The key point here, however, is that exploiting insecurities through insults is not the only thing that Andrew Tate does.
He simultaneously messages to young men that they are weak/poor/unhealthy/cucks/betas/etc, but also that they deserve more, that it’s not entirely their fault that they’re not getting rich/women/success/etc, and that if they do xyz, they’ll fix themselves. Solely insulting them isn’t what makes the messaging effective, it’s the putting down of their current position in life while simultaneously promising a solution through notions of them having things like sex or money “taken” from them.
It’s certainly okay to mock or insult ideologies that are harmful, and to do a bit of that to the people that promote them, but only doing that will only radicalize them away from you. Think about these 2 scenarios:
Scenario A: “You’re worthless, you’ll never be anything, you’re poor, a virgin, and will die alone”
Scenario B: “You’re worthless, you’re poor, a virgin, and you’ll never be anything unless you follow these x steps to become a better man”
Scenario B is what Andrew Tate uses on young men. Scenario A is pure harassment that doesn’t motivate anybody on its own, Scenario B motivates action.
If you just ridicule a friend that has negative beliefs and don’t present any alternative, they will stop being your friend. If you deride them for sharing a harmful belief, then explain the alternative and how it would make them better off, you’re more likely to get them to actually change. (though this is, of course, not universal, and I’m sure a small subset of people could be motivated to change purely off insults and nothing more)
I hope I explained that well, I’m quite prone to rambling 😅
That sounds like an extremely good way to ensure they cling even tighter to the lies sold by the Tates of the world
Antagonism is extremely effective at shutting people off from change. If you antagonize someone and they actually change, they almost certainly could have been better reached through compassion.
And when, like the vast majority of people exposed to antagonism, they don’t? You have now convinced them anyone outside their bubble is unreasonable and cruel, and given them a sense of persecution they will reflexively hide behind any time they’re confronted with an outside perspective
That sounds like an extremely good way to ensure they cling even tighter to the lies sold by the Tates of the world
That’s because you’ve bought into the right wing propaganda. The endless campaign to coddle fascists has only ever produced more fascists.
Holy, this thread is a mess. If you think all men who struggle dating are fascists, this conversation ends here. If you accept the fact that not every man not in a relationship is a fascist, then we can talk. More specifically, we can talk about how the point isn’t to “coddle fascists”, but rather to not antagonize new men into the arms of Andrew Tate and others.
Is someone with social anxiety, therefore struggles dating, a fascist? You might know a far-right socially anxious guy, sure, but that doesn’t prove anything beyond the fact that this one person is a fascist. I’m not sure how it’s right wing propaganda to say that generalization is bad. But I’m also not sure whether you realize an issue (in this case, men struggle with relationships) can have more than one cause.
Word. I’m demisexual and greyromantic. The idea that any guy who isn’t dating or may have trouble dating is a fascist is inherently aphobic.
If you think all men who struggle dating are fascists
No idea where you got that. But I do see a lot of fascists who alienate women as friends and partners, then grow resentful when they don’t receive “respect” they feel they deserve.
This can quickly escalate into stalking and further violence against family or ex-partners, unless other people intervene.
The idea that a violent misogynist shouldn’t be argued with or deterred, because their sense of superiority is more important than anyone else’s safety is what’s brought us to the modern fascist moment.
Is someone with social anxiety, therefore struggles dating, a fascist?
If “social anxiety” means lashing out at women in order to force them to comply with your demands?
Absolutely.
Dead isn’t precise enough. Expensive is generally what they mean. Along with many free spaces being dead.
Having to spend money to socialize is a concern for many. Often times this is a lack of a car too. Or lack of public transportation. Sprawl, Stroads.
It’s a multi variate thing when people quip that third places are dead.
I mean it also does mean the first thing tho no?
depends on your circles. in feminist and leftist circles, it usually means the first
but most men outside of those circles use it just to mean “im not getting the dates i am ENTITLED to 😡”
No hate OP but I hope you find better friends someday.
Oh, so it’s just the deliberate misunderstanding of a nuanced term, like what they did with toxic masculinity.
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I’ve only rarely heard it used as a shorthand for “I/we/you can’t get laid”. I’ve always interpreted it to mean the first thing. OP isn’t wrong about the second though, honestly. It is a skill issue.
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Sure, there are a minority of people who have legitimate physical disabilities that make it difficult for them to get laid, or impossible to have sex at all. I was under the impression that we were discussing the general case, though. I’m not going to prefix every comment I make with a statement about the exceptions when I’m speaking casually.
It makes conversation awkward and difficult to follow, because you have to dig through the throat-clearing and ass-covering to figure out what the person is trying to say. If you want to discuss those exceptions, feel free to bring them up, but if you feel that I’m ableist for refusing to pad out all my comments with performative acknowledgements to satisfy your asinine sense of morality, then I don’t know what to tell you. Well, actually, I guess I do: “No”.
Right, it’s very early and I rarely (if ever) have a sexual appetite, so Imma need clarification: how is getting laid not a skill issue? It is my understanding that if people want it enough, they find ways to change themselves or their circumstances to make it happen.
Just like how if people want to be billionaires enough, they find ways to change themselves or their circumstances to make it happen. People only have partial control over who they are and the circumstances they’re in, and the changes they’re able to make don’t always make a difference here.
The problem is we live in a society pause for laugh track
Where men are told they have to get laid or their personhood is questionable and women are told they must never get laid or their personhood is questionable.
The result is that heterosexual men are frustrated, cisgender women everywhere are afraid of anything with a penis, and dating men as a transwomen is pretty fucking easy because men are tired and desperate.
Source: Am Transwoman
Trans people always have the greatest insight into these issues. Thank you!
I guess it comes from being between the typical roles.
The same predjudice also appears to apply to gay people.
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Do you have any idea how many femboys just went for me? I have to reject them all as it won’t work out, but I appreciate it I guess.
Meanwhile, a handful of women went for me. Like, I’m fine now with whatever happens. I simply accepted that people are different, and we don’t all have to have the same lives.
The Tumbler OP is 100% not a man, if they were they‘d know not getting laid as a man is very often not a personal skill issue. I know many young men who are conventionally attractive and emotionally mature who just kind of have lost interest in dating even though they generally want a relationship.
I totally understand that between job/school, social media biases, self-worth doubts and economic insecurities, the incentive to navigate through predatory dating apps and toxic left/right bubbles just to meet another insta reels addict is minimal.
Staying single however makes you neither bloom nor gloom, it‘s just okay. Which is something I‘ve learned not to complain about given the current state of the world. Maybe someday I‘ll reconsider…
Assuming a roughly equal number of straight men and women, either a large amount of women are consistently sleeping with a small number of men or the same number of women are not having sex as men. The former is a pretty common incel assumption that would require women to be a hive mind, so imo the latter should be more true. In my experience as someone present in both male and female social circles, women tend to feel a lot more emotionally supported in platonic relationships while men tend to expect more emotional support from a romantic partner than a platonic friend. I think as a result, men tend to associate physical intimacy with emotional intimacy because they aren’t really getting either from their non-romantic relationships. You can see this in the way platonic men are so much less likely to hug each other or hold hands or cuddle than platonic women. So to me, OP is actually onto something with their original assumption. Not getting laid isn’t as much of a problem for women because they don’t expect as much emotionally from sex and romantic relationships since their emotional needs are fulfilled elsewhere. Imo, male loneliness isn’t so much a problem with modern dating or with women as a problem with the fact that social expectations placed on men are preventing men from feeling fulfilled outside of romantic relationships and sex. In conclusion, hug your bros and tell them everything will be okay and you’re proud of them.
You’ve literally just explained what the male loneliness epidemic is and its causes. It’s why it’s specific to men and a women not understand the nuance here is no diffeeent the people not understanding toxic masculinity.
There is actually some overlap in these two issues and it’s one of those rare moments where it’s women who need to shut up and listen because it’s not about them.
The loneliness epidemic is not a personal attack on women anymore than toxic masculinity is an attack on men. Ultimately, the loneliness epidemic is about reduce the male suicide rate. Anyone who takes it as any attack is misinformed and borders on a self absorbed asshole. Might as well just tell these men to kill themselves.
The solution isn’t for women to be more promiscuous because that doesn’t fix the problem and isn’t what anyone is suggesting is regards to this issue.
Casual sex does not cure loneliness for the majority of men. It may offer temporarily relief but even this isn’t true for all men.
The question I posited was: if all signs point to men and women having equal amounts of sex, why is there no “female loneliness epidemic” but there is a “male loneliness epidemic”? I posit that the reason we think of sex as a benefit for male loneliness therefore can’t be quantity of sex but men must be getting something from sex that women either don’t need or are getting elsewhere. Since scientific evidence points toward gender differences being social and not innate, there must be something women are doing different socially that leads us to think of men as a population as in need of sex or intimate relationships but not women. I’m presenting a neutral logical argument here by way of discarding illogical conclusions, not accusing anyone of anything or implying that the comment above me was accusing women of being too promiscuous. I just wanted to ask the question of why are straight men lonely but straight women not lonely even though logically the two populations must be dating and having sex at approximately equal rates
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Oh yeah you’re right. I thought they were being sarcastic at points where I see they weren’t. Sorry about that
It’s about making the male feel special. You don’t get it, do you?
Everything will be okay and I’m proud of you.
Someone else pointed out I was really uncharitable with reading your post, just wanted to apologise. I’ll leave my crappy response up for some good ol public shaming
I’d even go further to say that the male loneliness epidemic is tied with homophobia.
Not as in the usual way one thinks of homophobia, but as in a fear to do all these things women can do among themselves without being labeled gay or shunned by social peers as being needy or similar things.
Or better saying, it is the fear of having platonic male-male relationship being seen as homosexual relationship (hence, homophobia).
I think that’s part of it but less and less so nowadays and especially the younger generation. I think the aversion to physical or emotional closeness is more cultural memory at this point than homophobia, but it might still play a part. Like someone else pointed out, I think a big part of it is just wanting to feel a bit special but just not having existing avenues for support
I’ve definitely been there quite a few times. I can get by romantically, but sometimes I just don’t have the energy. Finding someone you mesh with can be exhausting.
I have a handful friends of varying genders who seem to be in similar boats. I can’t be sure as I haven’t asked. It seems like the current options are inadequate for a good chunk of people.
Which is something I‘ve learned not to complain about given the current state of the world. Maybe someday I‘ll reconsider…
This is where I’m at. I have enough stress in my life without adding all the extra crap that comes with trying to date to it. Sure when things are going good it’s amazing but that never seems to last and then you end up in limbo trying to evaluate whether it’s worth stringing it along or ending it.
I know many young men who are conventionally attractive and emotionally mature who just kind of have lost interest in dating even though they generally want a relationship.
Big mood. Not to try and jerk myself off about the cinventionally attractive part. But yeah modern dating has become so processed and transactional. As man it feels like you have to put so much work in and practically beg for a bit of time from someone thats git so many options that theyve started to objectify you and are basically just looking for any reason to pass on you and move on to the next person.
And then dating in person isnt much better. I never ever want to be the creepy guy that hits on a girl when shes just trying to enjoy herself, so unlesss a woman approaches me, ehich very rarely happens, im not finding someone that way.
And then dating from freinds has a lot of the same issues, i currently have a freind that i would date, shes given me some signals that she might feel the same way, but possibly also signals the complete opposite and since shes one of my closest freinds i dont want to risk ruining that freindship taking that shot.
Do it anyway. If she’s really a good friend, it won’t ruin the friendship.
Also the odds are high that you’re going to wish you did later.
Dumbass take.
A “skill issue” take, is just a republican “personal responsibility” take.
It’s dumb as fuck. How about you examine the systems that produce outcomes? Have you learned literally nothing from the last 50 years of the social justice movement?
Don’t deprive the weak men of their agency. So many Trump toxicity ‘outcomes’ chose this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feedback
The notion of cause-and-effect has to be handled carefully when applied to feedback systems:
Simple causal reasoning about a feedback system is difficult because the first system influences the second and second system influences the first, leading to a circular argument. This makes reasoning based upon cause and effect tricky, and it is necessary to analyze the system as a whole.
The solution to a complex system isn’t to fret about how complex it is, it’s to cut the feedback loop.
Weak men who developed toxic politics are caught in a feedback loop. Cut them out of it. Not complicated, just abrasive.
But you can continue constructing your nuanced and sympathetic understanding. These men just need to be understood, that will help them.
You’re advocating genocide, or at least, one step away from it, and you don’t even seem to realize it.
You also seem to have no grasp of how complex systems or feedback work, given that feedback is a necessary and inherent part of many systems and cannot just be ‘cut out’.
Quite frankly, you’re more toxic then most of the men you seem to despise.
it does not follow from the marginalization of the other that every time you experience the marginalization of the other, it is directly connected to genocide. humans are more than ideal atoms, and some of them need to be communicated with in the language of harsh blunt truth.
Men who are unfuckable because of their politics need to man up. If you are spending several hundred words to say: “please integrate a more healthy relationship with masculinity” which is literally just telling them to man up with extra steps that they are uninterested in, you should consider that they are man enough to need to hear: “man up.”
You sound like someone who has read a lot and understood very little.
You sound like someone with the word ‘master’ in their online internet name.
Most women tend to not want to form relationships with misogynistic incels. That’s what’s seen as a skill issue.
Or men with autism or adhd. Cause that’s who you target with “just be more social and enjoyable.”
Men spending time to fix their financial issues instead of socializing up there too.
Sucks that men’s issues are being treated as a joke or mischaracterized as something else and not important.
I think a big issue is that third places have disappeared or not kept up with culture. All that’s near me are bars and Masonic Lodges, younger men are trying to drink less and don’t want to wear weird robes to hang out with other guys.
Are younger men trying to drink less, or do they just have less expendable income to go to bars and such?
both
Yup. The dangers are way more understood now. Between that and price, the wine industry is in tears right now. They have had worst sales YOY for last couple years than in recent history.
The entire alcohol industry is in decline because of younger drinkers, or lack thereof… Worst hit is Champagne, then wine. Expensive liqours and domestic beer have been hit pretty hard. Microbrewers are having the business trouble they always have, but most seem to be doing alright with the younger crowd with hard seltzer options.
and don’t want to where weird robes to hang out with other guys.
Meanwhile I met most of my friends through the SCA.
No judgement, just thought it was funny
Almost like this person is part of the problem.
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Came here to say this.
I’m 42, happily married, and can’t find/keep/make a friend to save my life. My wife is very anti-social/introverted and has a good number of friends.
I cycle between thinking my interests suck, or I must just be un-fucking-bareable to be around and completely oblivious.
Maybe both… Probably both.
Man, I feel you. I am genuinely jealous of people who can walk in a room and be friends with everyone in a few minutes.
I’m in my 40s and made a number of new friends this year by getting involved with my local fighting game scene. If you’re into videogames at all I’d suggest trying it, and if you’re not into fighting games specifically there are absolutely people at your locals who will be happy, if not excited, to teach you.
Fighting games are unique among competitive games in that while there is no cooperative aspect in the game itself they have developed one of the most collaborative and friendliest gaming communities I have ever had the pleasure of interacting with.
The first rule of fighting game communities is that you don’t talk about fighting game communities. The second rule of fighting game communities is that you don’t talk about fighting game communities.
I am 43, currently dating someone, but this is more someone to spend some intimate time with, and do things with, with neither planning on anything deeper. I guess a type of friends with benefits. My last relationship was very long and serious, but we both had some serious issues, I went on to work on mine, she spent a few more years not trying to get help, and then she spent a few years with serious improvement, but died late last year. So I am not really trying for anything deep.
I moved to were I am about 6 years ago, I have several new friends, a number of acquaintances I get along with at social events, and said girlfriend. This is how it has always worked out for me. I am not sure why. I do believe that growing up in a situation where I moved every couple of years, and thus had to make new friends every time, kinda play a big role in how I developed. On top of this I have the blessing/curse of not experiencing anxiety, this often helps in the beginning, but that lack of inhibition can also turn a lot of people off. However, that is me.
This being said one of the biggest differences I see between me, and people around me who have no friends, is that I spend time researching what is going on where I live, and then I participate in it. Often I don’t even like what it is, but I would otherwise be sitting at home, so fuck it, might as well. Beyond this I go out of my way to talk to everyone, in a general group sense. I don’t hone in on one person, and I keep it very casual. The critical thing though, is that there is reciprocal conversation. I ask them something “Oh, hey I am new here, how long have you been guys been involved in this?” I try to keep it to where I am asking, comfortably non-invasive, questions about themselves, and try and get them to talk about themselves, and hopefully their interests. Then you make yourself a regular, and over time, the conversation become much more second nature, and you slowly get to know each other better.
Another thing is that I know a lot of people just won’t like me. That is fine. Even rude rejection is just a minor thing to me. I have been reject so many times that if I took it personally, well, I doubt I could deal with it. There are people out there with some sort of overlap between you and them, see if you can make this something. You need to view rejection as just a minor inconvenience. Move on. I see so many men who refuse to do the footwork to get this off the ground, and of those who do, I see many who display disturbing behavior over rejection. It is no wonder why women are scared to give definite answers, hand out fake phone numbers, and lie to create an exit for so many interactions.
Small talk is the gateway to real conversation. Finding places people go to socialize while doing a particular thing provides an immediate ice breaker, ie “Hey, I am new here, how long have you guys been doing this?”, as well as a topic to discuss. Rejection isn’t to be taken personally the vast majority of the time. Working on improving yourself is very important. Always be looking for things to improve on, discuss it. These places of interest are not obvious because society has decided you need to pay simply to be human these days, but unless you live in the middle of nowhere, there are things going on out there. Often these interest groups will meet at a designated house. If you can’t find one that you enjoy, go to one based on something you have not done before. Tell people you aren’t just new to the group, but to the whole thing. Get conversation off the ground by asking about the topic. You can make good friends from places created to do things you aren’t really interested in. What I would do is if I can’t find something that fits my interests, I look for things that are interests with a lot of cross over between that, and people who are interested in something I enjoy.
If you live in the middle of nowhere, and you are unhappy, and isolated, do anything to move away from that. It won’t be easy, and it won’t be comfortable, and it will be anxiety inducing, but that is all part and parcel of life. It sucks. Moving to places, and traveling is it’s own set of skills. People who don’t really do that, at least not often, can get overwhelmed with it. When I say anything I mean it. Sure, don’t like do something particularly dangerous, but it will have to become a singular goal you spend your time working towards. Living in a tiny rural area, where you have no friends, no interests, and you are isolated, is a death sentence. Not always literally, but internally. This tiny place is what it is, and if there is nothing for you, it is to small to change in a way that will work for you. You need to get out.
If your work/life balance is way out of whack, you will need to put a lot of effort into changing that. I spent a lot of time working 70+ hour weeks. It was literally killing me. I began spending the very little personal time I had looking for work that gave me some hope of having a life. I would have to make a lot of material sacrifices, as I would make significantly less, but the restructuring of my life, in that direction, was the only way I could avoid dying from stress in my office. This shit sucked, and ultimately my life collapsed, but that is a whole other story. Point being, if you have no life because you work all the time, that shit needs to change, and it isn’t going to be easy.
All of these things are skills, you need to practice them by doing them, and you need to learn how to accept failure, and course correction. You may also have depression, or other psych issues, and need therapy. Depending on where you are this can go from “well it’s there” to “this is an expensive luxury”. There is no real good answer here. Giving any real advice would require knowledge of all the things going on with you to make any type of recommendation.
I mean, it’s welcome. But it has more to do with everyone is an asshole, and not worth being around really.
Yes, I was so confused when reading this.
There something quite ableist about all of this.
As if everyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps without the support of a community around them.
Yeah, the OP can suck eggs on this one.
That isn’t what people mean by it. Loneliness means loneliness.
Imagine what would happen if somebody said this about women. Are you lonely, ladies? Have you tried being enjoyable and relaxing? And you should smile more!
and then i learned what people meant by it (men arent getting laid)
Weird post, that literally just isn’t a thing at all. This reads like a thinly veiled attempt to try to put down people they perceive as “not getting laid”. This kind of “skill issue” attack rhetoric actually contributes to the male loneliness epidemic
Yeah, right? Sex isn‘t even a huge aspect of why I‘d want a relationship anymore. It would complement it, sure, but if the relationship otherwise is just an expensive, instagram story bullshit, body insecurity fuelled mess where eating disorder meets self-worth anxiety…fuck no!
I just want someone to hug and cuddle with atp if I‘m being real. Does sharing this on lemmy make me “weak” and “un-manly” in the eyes of society? Maybe, but that‘s part of a problem I honestly don‘t care about any longer.
To me, it reads like they’re just extrapolating the statements from the loudest group of people who tend to yell online about the male loneliness epidemic (incels that blame women for their celibacy) out and assuming that’s the majority opinion, which actually tends to be more referencing actual loneliness in general. Either that, or they just worded it a little badly.
I do agree that the rhetoric can be a bit detrimental though.
Male loneliness is about camaraderie. If it was about getting laid, then prostitution would solve it. Busting a nut isn’t gonna fix a psychological problem facing the adult male population in modern western society and this shitty tumblr post isn’t gonna either. Its down right perpetuating it. Now, some truth is there; COMPANIONSHIP (not not getting laid) is a wonderful thing and does help, but the root of the problem is societal.
While I agree sex on its own is not enough, I partially disagree that its not important. I do legitimately think a lot of this anxiety among currently non-sex having men would be significantly reduced if prostitution was commonly available, legal, not stigmatized (for either party), and safe.
As it stands it is none of those things, at least in most places.
i frankly disagree. a lot of the value i think men derive from sex is actually being chosen by a woman to have said sex with them. putting your dick in a woman and busting a nut will only leave you feel emptier i think. (then again, no experience so this is my 2 cents)
That is part of it for people who desperately need external validation, but if it was the only element no one would bother with prostitutes, VR porn, and sex dolls at all. Heck, if that was enough more men probably would be content to just be “friend zoned” because friendship is very validating.
In reality though its existential and experiential. Its men wanting to experience something extremely pleasurable and contentment bringing (and consistently) before they take their final dirtnap. Its fear of missing out on a major life experience of being in a sexual relationship for key parts of their lives (20’s and 30’s). Every day they’re single they experience the fear of their youthful years slipping away and missing out on some of the most fulfilling and fun activities a human can participate in.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I’ll think about it more for sure, but I still very much wonder if there is more to it. Vr porn and dolls and ai girlfriends and the rest of it, i feel, rarely leave the users fulfilled so i wonder if there might be a hierarchy of needs here. But i dont disagree that there is certainly a special place for intimacy around the 20s and 30s where this is especially important
Another way to put it is that our culture is creating a lot of men who no one wants to be around. Who either don’t see themselves as needing to be likable or who see being likable as something that goes completely against their identity – something that is ‘impossible’ for them that they refuse to work on.
A lot of this may be tied to ideas of masculinity that see social awareness, empathy and cooperation as feminine traits since ‘tough guys’ in media can get ‘respect’ and attention despite eschewing all of those traits.
If you feel particularly lacking in those traits, it can feel very reassuring to tell yourself you can’t work on those things and it’s unfair to be judged or suffer consequences for deficiencies in them - because there is no escaping the sense of vulnerability one feels when trying to build up something one is weak in.
So we end up with a lot of guys who are sullen about being miserable and being miserable to be around.
These guys have a lot of hard work ahead of them. The first big hurdle is accepting that they have to be responsible for becoming people that others like being around - and getting over their safety blanket idea that they ‘can’t’ so they shouldn’t bother.
Idk about other but for me, perosnally its about a romantic relationship.
I started trying to solve my lonliness like 8 years ago now, i followed the advice, i worked on myself as a person, my hegiene my appearance, bot my mental and physical health, i picked up some hobbies, got out of my shell, made some great freinds that i love and love me… but still no romantic partner. Im happy with myself but say when I travel no matter how much i enjoy it theres always that thought in the back of my mind that i dont have anyone to enjoy it with, im not going to have anyone to look back at these times fondly with and it really gets me and puts a sour mood on oretty much anything i do and it feels like my time to find someone is quickly running out.
Wait, what? I thought it was about camaraderie as well. I mean, yeah, I wish I was getting laid but I’d honestly rather have a community of people around me who provide mutual support to each other.
Yeah, I don’t know what the tumblr user in the screenshot is talking about. That’s just not what people mean when they talk about the male loneliness epidemic. Seems like they just want to put others down while dishing out useless, hollow advice …“be enjoyable”… lmao wow they solved it, great thanks.
Misandry is sadly pretty common.
Turns out “leftist” take-generators are not immune to making up bullshit to mock & deride for social clout
If it’s a conversation about 3rd spaces and a lack of opportunities for IRL social interaction in modern society, I think it’s more apt and more productive to just call it a loneliness epidemic. People who are not cis-men have the same problems of not being able to access affordable, pleasant places to socialize in their communities. Calling it the “male” loneliness epidemic just leads to animosity and division where there should be solidarity.
I mean, the specifically-male loneliness epidemic is a symptom of the patriarchy. Patriarchal societies pretty much define “male” as someone who can’t talk about their feelings. Which is, again, pretty much the definition of the specifically-male loneliness epidemic.
Males are hardly allowed to talk about their struggles, so they frequently struggle with mental health problems on top of that. Feminism, a.k.a. solidarity, is the only way to solve this.
It’s not just about getting laid, but there are of course incels that make it all about that.
I feel like this type of reply to the male loneliness epidemic (or y’know just the loneliness epidemic, since loneliness has been on the rise independent of gender) really does not give a shit about the people that experience loneliness by reducing them to the most horrible and loud of subset of them.
Sure, there are incels that will twist and turn every societal tragedy into why they are victims and deserve to keep hating women. But by listening to them and reducing the entire problem to hahaha, the women haters are getting what they deserve, you are just hurting everyone else.
I…simply don’t know what to make of this. I’m a guy who finds himself thinking about the male loneliness epidemic a lot, and never in terms of finding a romantic/sexual partner. It’s always about solid platonic bonds outside of that and kin, and factors that make those harder to find and maintain these days.
Is this just a shitpost and I’m too stupid to get the joke?
You are thinking about the actual meaning of the male loneliness epidemic, whereas many people online are thinking about the buzzword loneliness epidemic which has been peddled in manospheres as “women hate men so we can’t get laid.”
You’re not stupid, you just can’t see the bottom of the hole from all the way up here.
Ahhh, k. Didn’t know (though not surprised) the term is being used in that context. Suppose that says something about what I’m exposing myself to these days, so that’s good to know.
Appreciate it!
It’s plain old misandry. They like to pretend this is the default, but look at the comments and it’s all men saying no it’s the first.
